Texas GOP proposes sales tax increase/property tax decrease swap

[DanRydell 799]

So a tax cut for the rich paid for by a tax increase on the poor. Great work guys.

https://www.texastribune.org/2019/04/10/greg-abbott-endorses-raising-texas-sales-taxes-property-tax-relief/

 

[Foosters 17730]

Party of the working man.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

I bet there is a much smaller progressive/regressive divide between property taxes and sales taxes than there used to be.  So many people owning houses beyond their means because of low interest rates.  Plus percent savings is going down, meaning people are spending all their dough at every income level.

[mchookem 16206]

wouldn't it also basically just even out when for those that do own property? 

average homeowner sees a decrease in property taxes but also pays more in sales tax??

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

Just now, mchookem said:

wouldn't it also basically just even out when for those that do own property? 

average homeowner sees a decrease in property taxes but also pays more in sales tax??

I think that is truer now than probably it used to be.  But what OP is referring to is the regressive argument is that the poors spend a higher percent of their income on sales taxes than the rich, who can save and invest or whatever.  So of every $100 in tax revenue, a larger chunk will come from poorer people.   Basically, sales tax is the most regressive form of tax* and there are no ways to implement it without being regressive.  But I bet the effect is smaller now.

 

*maybe other than the lottery

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

i just have to cringe thinking about my upbringing/indoctrination in that party. 

[DanRydell 799]

What’s really amazing is they landed on an proposal even more unpopular than creating an income tax, and without actually increasing school funding as a result.

 

 

 

 

[David Dennison 18655]

4 minutes ago, DanRydell said:

What’s really amazing is they landed on an proposal even more unpopular than creating an income tax, and without actually increasing school funding as a result.

 

 

 

 

How on earth do they expect voters to approve this?

[Francisco 2.0 32323]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

How on earth do they expect voters to approve this?

Chortles.

 

R

[Anastasis 23394]

Legalize that shit. 

[David Dennison 18655]

2 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

Chortles.

 

R

That poll includes Republicans. 

I don't see this passing.

It won't get the two thirds in both houses anyway.

[shnsajax 3589]

I still prefer the state income tax I pay here with property taxes more half of what they are in Texas. State income tax is around $800 for the year. After homeowners exemption my property taxes are at about 0.94%.

[Anastasis 23394]

Property taxes are unamerican. 

[Celery Man 20883]

fuckin boomers

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

13 minutes ago, DanRydell said:

What’s really amazing is they landed on an proposal even more unpopular than creating an income tax, and without actually increasing school funding as a result.

 

 

 

 

I bet the chart of “how likely would you be personally taxed more” would overlay quite nicely. 

[UncleCharlie 334]

Obviously they should cut all taxes.  The trickle down effect and growth will more than pay for itself.

[David Dennison 18655]

3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Property taxes are unamerican. 

We should just go back to feudalism.

[Fudge Nuggets 19149]

21 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

i just have to cringe thinking about my upbringing/indoctrination in that party. 

Maybe you are older than I am, but even in the 1980’s the Republicans were hell bent in fucking over the poors.

[Brisketexan 104590]

20 minutes ago, DanRydell said:

What’s really amazing is they landed on an proposal even more unpopular than creating an income tax, and without actually increasing school funding as a result.

 

 

 

 

We have state leadership that engages in the following thinking:

 

1 -- What is the LEAST popular option for raising revenue?

2-- We should do THAT!

 

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by Brisketexan

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

1 minute ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Maybe you are older than I am, but even in the 1980’s the Republicans were hell bent in fucking over the poors.

A different time, man.  70% top marginal tax rates are cool either. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19149]

Just now, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

A different time, man.  70% top marginal tax rates are cool either. 

But they helped make America great.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13411]

Isn't this a direct response to the deduction ceiling of the 2017 Tax Act so that you could only deduct up to 10K of property or state income tax? Obviously we need to reduce the non-deductible amounts for rich people so they can create more jobs for poor people.  Yacht builders come to mind.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13411]

3 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

But they helped make America great.

great question. If Trump & co. want to MAGA, what time are they considering as "great" and what were the tax tables at that time?

[atomheartbevo 89416]

7 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Maybe you are older than I am, but even in the 1980’s the Republicans were hell bent in fucking over the poors.

I can remember a friend’s dad had a “Ronnie says fuck the poor” bumper sticker in his home office in the 80s.   Did not get the humor/meaning back then.  

[Brisketexan 104590]

1 minute ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

great question. If Trump & co. want to MAGA, what time are they considering as "great" and what were the tax tables at that time?

They only want the "white people ruled and those other folks knew their place and kept their mouths shut" MAGA, not the "we had higher taxes and significantly greater government investment in our infrastructure, communities, and education" MAGA.  Because libtards.  Or something.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11809]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

We have state leadership that engages in the following thinking:

 

1 -- What is the LEAST popular option for raising revenue?

2-- We should do THAT!

 

 

That 30% your 're seeing, will you know whose base that is.  Deplorables.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

1 minute ago, atomheartbevo said:

I can remember a friend’s dad had a “Ronnie says fuck the poor” bumper sticker in his home office in the 80s.   Did not get the humor/meaning back then.  

Both sides could campaign on that slogan. 

[seven 1366]

16 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Property taxes are unamerican. 

100% agree, it's disgraceful 

[NowThis 931]

 a few states have no state income tax, very low property taxes, and low sales tax (about 8%).  How do they do it?  I've spent a lot of time in WA and it works fine for them. My property taxes go 2/3 to the school district and the rest to the City and County. How do WA, NV, TN, NH do it? hmm...

btw, property taxes should be progressive.. meaning the rates should be higher for $1m homes than $200k homes.  Agree?  In a way they are progessive due to Homestead exemption which is a fixed amount, a deduction on value, but still not enough.  Each county and the taxing districts need to figure this out. 

Edited April 10, 2019 by NowThis

[jimmyjazz 45554]

Under this plan, the poor would pay more sales tax and the same property tax.  If anyone thinks landlords are going to reduce rents because their property taxes went down, well . . . oceanfront property for sale, etc.

[pacman 7328]

Exactly the intent. Laughable.

[pacman 7328]

1 hour ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

I bet there is a much smaller progressive/regressive divide between property taxes and sales taxes than there used to be.  So many people owning houses beyond their means because of low interest rates.  Plus percent savings is going down, meaning people are spending all their dough at every income level.

According to Consumer Expenditure Survey data, ITEP estimates that low-income families typically spend three-quarters of their income on sales-taxable items, while middle-income families spend about half, and upper-income families spend roughly one sixth. 

https://itep.org/whopays/

[tantric superman 4667]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

How on earth do they expect voters to approve this?

Average Texan Going into the Voting Booth:  "Dan Patrick is the good guy right?"

[Enchubben 5509]

1 hour ago, NowThis said:

 a few states have no state income tax, very low property taxes, and low sales tax (about 8%).  How do they do it?  I've spent a lot of time in WA and it works fine for them. My property taxes go 2/3 to the school district and the rest to the City and County. How do WA, NV, TN, NH do it? hmm...

btw, property taxes should be progressive.. meaning the rates should be higher for $1m homes than $200k homes.  Agree?  In a way they are progessive due to Homestead exemption which is a fixed amount, a deduction on value, but still not enough.  Each county and the taxing districts need to figure this out. 

<Trump Wrong meme>

Average Sales and use tax ranking of the states: TN  #1 , WA # 4, NV #13.  NH - no sales tax. (mostly funded by business income type tax, state property tax, and excise taxes)  

You may not have personally paid the tax in WA but trust me that businesses do through B&O and other taxes. You would have paid it indirectly through higher cost of living which is almost double of what it is in Houston, for example.  

Also specifically in regards to TX property tax, people should be aware of HB 3 which passed the house 148-1. HB3 promises an additional $9B (billion, with b) in funding to school districts, of which 25% is required to be allocated to teacher salaries (non-administrative). Still work to do in Senate as they have an alternative plan for the $9B, including a flat raise per teacher.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Enchubben
gotdam spelling

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20343]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

We should just go back to feudalism.

 
The impoverished need to pay their fair share!

[NowThis 931]

10 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

<Trump Wrong meme>

Average Sales and use tax ranking of the states: TN  #1 , WA # 4, NV #13.  NH - no sales tax. (mostly funded by business income type tax, state property tax, and excise taxes)  

You may not have personally paid the tax in WA but trust me that businesses do through B&O and other taxes. You would have paid it indirectly through higher cost of living which is almost double of what it is in Houston, for example.  

Also specifically in regards to TX property tax, people should be aware of HB 3 which passed the house 148-1. HB3 promises an additional $9B (billion, with b) in funding to school districts, of which 25% is required to be allocated to teacher salaries (non-administrative). Still work to do in Senate as they have an alternative plan for the $9B, including a flat raise per teacher.

Seattle and some of its suburbs are expensive due to the big tech but away from that Metroplex, WA is really affordable in the east like Spokane, Yakima and south towards Vancuover/Portland.  I have spent probably 4 or 5 months up there in total and know that it's better tax wise.  How can it not be? The ordinary person pays no state income tax and the pass on expenses from companies doesn't hit the monthly budget.  Prop taxes are half of TX. My real world experience disputes that idea of WA being a top tax state. 

[housious 468]

My property taxes are out of control and poors make me uncomfortable. I’m for it.

Edited April 10, 2019 by housious
Poor people are the worst

[David Dennison 18655]

8 minutes ago, housious said:

My property taxes are out of control and poors make me uncomfortable. I’m for it.

Yeah, well, chances are, you're a poor in the eyes of non-poors.

[pacman 7328]

1 hour ago, tantric superman said:

Average Texan Going into the Voting Booth:  "Dan Patrick is the good guy right?"

I mean, he changed his name. He is a whole new person now. He found Jesus for real this time.

[atomheartbevo 89416]

If the Dems in Texas had their shit together, they’d make sure that this is blasted across the airwaves and websites far and wide.  They’d make the Republicans pay for this next year politically.

.   Plus, a lot of Trumpkins are poorer than they let on.  

[Texas Jeff 1932]

4 hours ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

So many people owning houses beyond their means because of low interest rates.

This could be a pretty dangerous thing if rates rise back to "normal" rates of 7-8%.  People might be able to afford to stay where they are because their rate is low  but they might not be able to find a buyer for their house at a higher interest rate without coming down in price.  And since no one wants to take a loss, people may just stayed glued to what they have hoping the market will eventually recover.

I think the "tax-free cap gain on your house" policy plus low interest rates have been pushing up home prices for a while.  No one wants to pay property taxes, but reducing property tax rates may cause additional upward pressure on home prices, so long as rates stay low.

In the early 90's, most of my co-workers used a rule of thumb to buy a house between 2x and 3x of annual salary.  Anything above that was considered to be too much debt.  This was with interest rates around 8-10%.  People today seem to have no problem buying houses that are 5x or more of their income, which is enabled by low rates and encouraged by the idea of potiential tax-free gains.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Texas Jeff

[Enchubben 5509]

14 minutes ago, Texas Jeff said:

This could be a pretty dangerous thing if rates rise back to "normal" rates of 7-8%.  People might be able to afford to stay where they are because their rate is low  but they might not be able to find a buyer for their house at a higher interest rate without coming down in price.  And since no one wants to take a loss, people may just stayed glued to what they have hoping the market will eventually recover.

I think the "tax-free cap gain on your house" policy plus low interest rates have been pushing up home prices for a while.  No one wants to pay property taxes, but reducing property tax rates may cause additional upward pressure on home prices, so long as rates stay low.

In the early 90's, most of my co-workers used a rule of thumb to buy a house between 2x and 3x of annual salary.  Anything above that was considered to be too much debt.  This was with interest rates around 8-10%.  Fucking idiots today seem to have no problem buying houses that are 5x or more of their income, which is enabled by low rates and encouraged by the idea of potiential tax-free gains.

fixed it. otherwise good comment.

[Enchubben 5509]

1 hour ago, NowThis said:

Seattle and some of its suburbs are expensive due to the big tech but away from that Metroplex, WA is really affordable in the east like Spokane, Yakima and south towards Vancuover/Portland.  I have spent probably 4 or 5 months up there in total and know that it's better tax wise.  How can it not be? The ordinary person pays no state income tax and the pass on expenses from companies doesn't hit the monthly budget.  Prop taxes are half of TX. My real world experience disputes that idea of WA being a top tax state. 

I can't speak to disparity of cost of living in WA between Seattle and the outlying areas. I'm just saying WA is not a low tax state and specifically with regards to sales tax.  States all need their money from somewhere and they get it from taxes, whether that's severance tax, sales tax, income tax or elsewhere, the toll gets paid.  Either it comes from businesses who pass it on to consumers, or directly from individuals who gripe.  

In Texas we have relatively good public education, which is supported through state funding, county sales tax, and property taxes.  I guess we could go to the Louisiana model where our schools are terrible and pay a couple grand less in property tax...

[TexasBeta 1261]

Maybe you are older than I am, but even in the 1980’s the Republicans were hell bent in fucking over the poors.

 

 

 

[Hank Scorpio 17723]

Legally the State of Texas cannot tax you if you are a sovereign citizen and you do not recognize the state's authority to levy taxes. That's why I haven't paid property tax in 20 years but I booby trapped my land so the sheriff can't come get me. It's all in the Constitution. 

[NowThis 931]

18 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Legally the State of Texas cannot tax you if you are a sovereign citizen and you do not recognize the state's authority to levy taxes. That's why I haven't paid property tax in 20 years but I booby trapped my land so the sheriff can't come get me. It's all in the Constitution. 

and the guns to protect what is rightfully yours (hence the avatar).

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

13 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Legally the State of Texas cannot tax you if you are a sovereign citizen and you do not recognize the state's authority to levy taxes. That's why I haven't paid property tax in 20 years but I booby trapped my land so the sheriff can't come get me. It's all in the Constitution. 

 Get with the times dude. You might as well tell us you have a slap bracelet and a hyper color T-shirt. All the cool conspiracy nuts have moved on to claiming the US   as is meant in the tax code only consists of the district of Columbia in the federal territories and federal enclaves. 

[XYZ 2154]

31 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

In Texas we have relatively good public education

And you base that assertion on what, exactly?

[Brisketexan 104590]

4 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

 Get with the times dude. You might as well tell us you have a slap bracelet and a hyper color T-shirt. All the cool conspiracy nuts have moved on to claiming the US   as is meant in the tax code only consists of the district of Columbia in the federal territories and federal enclaves. 

Whatever.  Your flag has gold fringe, you have no jurisdiction here.

[Enchubben 5509]

1 minute ago, XYZ said:

And you base that assertion on what, exactly?

We're better than any surrounding state?