I am the Spouse/SO of an Alcoholic (and other dysfunctions)

[troph 24914]

and for the record, some of us are just dealing with good ole fashioned dry alcoholics.  which is easier and maybe not.  the next sincere apology I get from my ex on something major will be the first.  same with my dad.  same with my ex-law partner, shit I have a terrible picker. 

[TwiceHorn 31599]

Yeah the problems alkies have are by no means limited to alkies.  Tons of civilians have the same or similar problems.  We were just lucky that we learned that we couldn't actually survive while still being an inwardly directed (selfish doesn't really cover it) asshole.

[SydneyCarton 48222]

23 minutes ago, troph said:

and for the record, some of us are just dealing with good ole fashioned dry alcoholics.  which is easier and maybe not.  the next sincere apology I get from my ex on something major will be the first.  same with my dad.  same with my ex-law partner, shit I have a terrible picker. 

Well. You didn't pick you dad, so there's still hope that random chance could intervene on your behalf. 

Good thread, everyone, thanks for the read. Like Brisket I don't suffer from any of these problems in my life currently, but it's nice to see people working through their shit and supporting one another. The older I get the one thing I'm determined to teach my child is kindness and to treat others with respect, and there's a lot of that exhibited here, and it feels it's increasingly rare in the daily world. 

Edited April 30, 2019 by SydneyCarton

[Buffsoldier 1895]

Decided to post this here, and not fuck up another thread.

Texanbychoice posted that he and his wife just miscarried in the Dad Thread over in Daily Texan.  It sparked a memory.  (BTW, TBC, I'm really very sorry for your loss)

Shortly after arriving in theater for my 2012-2013 deployment, just after Thanksgiving, my ex informed me she was pregnant.  I was very excited.  It would have been our second child.  The birth would have been just barely before the full time of my deployment, so I would have been sent home maybe 2 weeks early, so no real changes were necessary at that time. I was excited as hell. I was going to be a Daddy again.

About 4-5 weeks later, she told me that she miscarried.  I was devastated.  I was able to get on with the deployment in a fairly short time, but I was hurt bad.

It's pretty clear, with the gift of hindsight, that she drank and pilled my child to death.  She couldn't control her need for the substances and killed my child.  She murdered my child.

Fairly obvious, but I'm not dealing with this well.  Not even a bit.

I've turned off my phone and taken the battery out.  I don't have any booze in the house, so I can't take advantage of the lowered inhibitions to call the ex and scream at that bitch.  But motherfucker, do I want to. Bad. I want that bitch to feel every bit of my pain right now.  I want her to suffer.  I want her to suffer the way she made my child suffer.

I did the only two things I could do:

1.  I held it together, and I hugged my daughter extra tight as I put her to bed.  And then I hugged her again, and told her I loved her with all my heart and how I'm so glad that she's in my world.  I told her that her happiness is my happiness.  And then I hugged her again.

2.  I'm typing it here, and leaving it.  And praying it helps the pain abate.

She killed my child. Maybe my baby son.  Maybe my baby daughter.

I know there is another possibility:  That she was lying about being pregnant in a vain hope that I might get released from the deployment.  And when she saw that it wasn't going to work she ended the charade by telling me she miscarried.  So that being a possibility, the manipulative alcoholic bitch went out of her way to let me believe that I was going to be a Daddy, and then to let me believe my baby had died.  I'm not sure if that's better or not. 

God damn her for that.  Damn her straight to hell.

[BearSchlong 8128]

I've typed and deleted several responses over the last few days. Here goes:

Pray for her. Not for her sake, but for yours.

[Not a cat 5724]

On 10/3/2019 at 10:29 PM, Buffsoldier said:

 

I know there is another possibility:  That she was lying about being pregnant in a vain hope that I might get released from the deployment.  And when she saw that it wasn't going to work she ended the charade by telling me she miscarried.  So that being a possibility, the manipulative alcoholic bitch went out of her way to let me believe that I was going to be a Daddy, and then to let me believe my baby had died.  

 

Like bear, I've thought of how to respond to this.   I'll just say that the second option is by far the most likely of the two scenarios.  Not sure if that helps, but if it were me it would because you already knew she was manipulative and crazy.  If anything it just reaffirms your decision to get out.  

[Lidig8r 1874]

Buff, I can't help but believe that your soul will find its way to lead you to the path you are destined to be on.

Extreme, overwhelming anger ... rage tends to be short lived in its intensity. I believe it is incredibly productive that you can have this forum as an outlet. That you can let out those feelings of rage knowing that you will not be judged ... that this is a safe place to vent, to share, to have as a safe resource.

And yet, I also believe that that rage, that overwhelming anger, especially when justified and based on horrific acts perpetrated against you, nonetheless will weaken over time. It doesn't ever have to go completely away. But, we must surely learn to live with it and not let it become our master. And I believe it inevitable that it will weaken and fade.

That is because of the incredible love you have for your daughter. A kind love. A pure love. A love based upon strength, resolve and honest feelings. The love you felt as you hugged her again and again. Perhaps, a love that defines you. A love that defines your soul ... or that your soul allows you to feel.

I believe that your daughter grows she will see you, and understand that  YOU are THE person of integrity, of honesty, of strength, of love.

The day may very well come as well, maybe far in the future, when your daughter comes to you and says, "Daddy, I know mom had so many troubles and issues. She said some unkind things about you. But, you have never said anything bad about mom to me. You never put her down or try to make me not like her. Why"

And you can look her in the eyes and say, "My beloved daughter, because our hearts are the same."

 

[troph 24914]

I’ve reported about my friend in acute liver failure, now word is also kidney failure from 20 years of drinking 7am til bedtime and the deets are in the alcoholics thread. But for this thread I’m here to say I’m mad.

 

They are dear friends and tonight I’m giving a speech at a large political fundraiser for an organization that’s a major ally of our LGBTQ community and I want them there to see my moment.

 

Alcohol is going to prevent them from coming and selfishly I’m mad about it.

 

There are bigger issues like the fact he may die soon (I have no inside information that such a prognosis has been given). But they’ve had two trips to the hospital in less than 2 weeks for esophageal bleeding. I just wish they would have stopped but they haven’t.

 

Makes me angry.

 

[Doc Reeves 6434]

2 hours ago, troph said:

I’ve reported about my friend in acute liver failure, now word is also kidney failure from 20 years of drinking 7am til bedtime and the deets are in the alcoholics thread. But for this thread I’m here to say I’m mad.

 

They are dear friends and tonight I’m giving a speech at a large political fundraiser for an organization that’s a major ally of our LGBTQ community and I want them there to see my moment.

 

Alcohol is going to prevent them from coming and selfishly I’m mad about it.

 

There are bigger issues like the fact he may die soon (I have no inside information that such a prognosis has been given). But they’ve had two trips to the hospital in less than 2 weeks for esophageal bleeding. I just wish they would have stopped but they haven’t.

 

Makes me angry.

 

I’m sorry to hear that. 
I know a woman is is currently drinking herself to death 2 years after a liver transplant. She’s 29.

i mean to say it’s ok to be angry sometimes. Their problem literally can and does make everything harder. And it honestly not mother fucking fair to lose an entire side of yourself because of someone else’s issue. 
 

it’s human to be mad.

 

On 10/3/2019 at 10:29 PM, Buffsoldier said:

Decided to post this here, and not fuck up another thread.

Texanbychoice posted that he and his wife just miscarried in the Dad Thread over in Daily Texan.  It sparked a memory.  (BTW, TBC, I'm really very sorry for your loss)

Shortly after arriving in theater for my 2012-2013 deployment, just after Thanksgiving, my ex informed me she was pregnant.  I was very excited.  It would have been our second child.  The birth would have been just barely before the full time of my deployment, so I would have been sent home maybe 2 weeks early, so no real changes were necessary at that time. I was excited as hell. I was going to be a Daddy again.

About 4-5 weeks later, she told me that she miscarried.  I was devastated.  I was able to get on with the deployment in a fairly short time, but I was hurt bad.

It's pretty clear, with the gift of hindsight, that she drank and pilled my child to death.  She couldn't control her need for the substances and killed my child.  She murdered my child.

Fairly obvious, but I'm not dealing with this well.  Not even a bit.

I've turned off my phone and taken the battery out.  I don't have any booze in the house, so I can't take advantage of the lowered inhibitions to call the ex and scream at that bitch.  But motherfucker, do I want to. Bad. I want that bitch to feel every bit of my pain right now.  I want her to suffer.  I want her to suffer the way she made my child suffer.

I did the only two things I could do:

1.  I held it together, and I hugged my daughter extra tight as I put her to bed.  And then I hugged her again, and told her I loved her with all my heart and how I'm so glad that she's in my world.  I told her that her happiness is my happiness.  And then I hugged her again.

2.  I'm typing it here, and leaving it.  And praying it helps the pain abate.

She killed my child. Maybe my baby son.  Maybe my baby daughter.

I know there is another possibility:  That she was lying about being pregnant in a vain hope that I might get released from the deployment.  And when she saw that it wasn't going to work she ended the charade by telling me she miscarried.  So that being a possibility, the manipulative alcoholic bitch went out of her way to let me believe that I was going to be a Daddy, and then to let me believe my baby had died.  I'm not sure if that's better or not. 

God damn her for that.  Damn her straight to hell.

I’m truly sorry my friend. My story doesn’t matter but for the fact I can relate entirely. 

i would like to offer what I learned from my experience and maybe somewhere in your process it way mean something: forgiveness is what set me free and in retrospect it feels almost selfish that I forgave her. Its for you, so you can live your life without hate, rage and crushing pain. I don’t want to sound patronizing or tell you how to live your life, I just hope when you’re ready you consider it. 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Doc Reeves

[Larry T. Spider 1747]

I searched Alcoholics Anonymous and got this thread as the top result. I am about to go back and read it but wanted to ask for advice with my situation as it’s a bit time sensitive. My BIL was admitted to the hospital by his neurologist because they thought he had something along the lines of MS. Turns out he drank himself into partial paralysis and likely caused serious damage to some organs. Managed to hold down a full time job but still lives at home with his parents.

It had become clear that he was drinking too much but nobody knew it was this bad. It’s become very evident that he’s a serious alcoholic and needs help. He was discharged from the hospital after about 5 days this evening. His parents are completely clueless about a lot of things, and I’m sure alcoholism is one of them. My wife told them to take all of the booze in the house to the dads office but they refused saying that he doesn’t drink much at home. While they are incredibly worried about him, this shows me that they have no clue what they are doing. 

How do I get this family on the same page with this? What resources should I read and suggest to them? Should they be pushing him to go to rehab? How much should they be forcing the issue with any of this?  I’ll go back and read the thread now....

[MaybeACoordinator 8350]

Yeah, five days isn't gonna cut it unless you're BIL is one of those unicorns who get scared straight and stays that way. Check out the "I am an alcoholic" thread too, and feel-free to cross-post the above. 

[TwiceHorn 31599]

1 minute ago, Larry T. Spider said:

I searched Alcoholics Anonymous and got this thread as the top result. I am about to go back and read it but wanted to ask for advice with my situation as it’s a bit time sensitive. My BIL was admitted to the hospital by his neurologist because they thought he had something along the lines of MS. Turns out he drank himself into partial paralysis and likely caused serious damage to some organs. Managed to hold down a full time job but still lives at home with his parents.

It had become clear that he was drinking too much but nobody knew it was this bad. It’s become very evident that he’s a serious alcoholic and needs help. He was discharged from the hospital after about 5 days this evening. His parents are completely clueless about a lot of things, and I’m sure alcoholism is one of them. My wife told them to take all of the booze in the house to the dads office but they refused saying that he doesn’t drink much at home. While they are incredibly worried about him, this shows me that they have no clue what they are doing. 

How do I get this family on the same page with this? What resources should I read and suggest to them? Should they be pushing him to go to rehab? How much should they be forcing the issue with any of this?  I’ll go back and read the thread now....

Come see us over here. we'll tell you all about it.

There's kind of two aspects to it, short-term and long-term.  Short-term, removing alcohol from the house is a good idea.  

Consider treatment while he's still sober and detoxed.  The long-term answer for many is AA, but there has to be a certain want-to there.  Sometimes treatment can hit "pause" and create a want-to where there might not have been one.

[Larry T. Spider 1747]

It may be worth nothing that the treatment he received in the hospital was entirely medical stuff not related to him getting help with addiction. They were mostly testing for a while host of diseases.

[TwiceHorn 31599]

Yeah hospitalization is of little value to recovery.  It does mostly insure that he's detoxed and won't suffer withdrawals, which can be deadly.  Alcohol detox needs to be medically supervised.

When I say "treatment," I mean a long-term, 30, preferably 60 or 90, day substance abuse treatment program.

Such programs are not a cure-all.  Some people don't end up needing them and get and stay sober in AA.  But they usually come in of their own volition, beaten near to death by the disease.

It is possible he feels near beaten to death, but it's hard to tell.

Edited January 11, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Larry T. Spider 1747]

He was very scared in the hospital but I don’t know how he feels after learning that he doesn’t have MS. They were not able to conduct an MRI for four days because he was shaking so bad.

I 100% know he needs serious treatment. It’s his best chance at a somewhat normal life. I just know his family is going to be desperate to act like there is nothing wrong and live in denial. Im not sure where BIL is with all of this but it wouldn’t surprise me if the answer is also denial. What do I do to better help them understand alcoholism and how they should move forward with him?  I don’t think staying out of it is an option because my wife wants to force the issue with her parents. She will listen to me so I want to give her the best resources/advice possible.

[TwiceHorn 31599]

5 minutes ago, Larry T. Spider said:

He was very scared in the hospital but I don’t know how he feels after learning that he doesn’t have MS. They were not able to conduct an MRI for four days because he was shaking so bad.

I 100% know he needs serious treatment. It’s his best chance at a somewhat normal life. I just know his family is going to be desperate to act like there is nothing wrong and live in denial. Im not sure where BIL is with all of this but it wouldn’t surprise me if the answer is also denial. What do I do to better help them understand alcoholism and how they should move forward with him?  I don’t think staying out of it is an option because my wife wants to force the issue with her parents. She will listen to me so I want to give her the best resources/advice possible.

Most treatment centers have family counseling.  They could also go to an al-anon meeting, but al-anon might be a bit too brutal for them.  They don't realize it but they are probably damn near as sick as he is. 

But since this seems to be his first go-round with serious consequences and they've been ignoring it while enabling him, they are real sick and probably not ready to hear what al-anon has to say.  I mean, point A is why the hell are they the ones charged with caring for him.  He's an adult, no?

Possibly an interventionist for all of them.

For most of us, alcoholism starts as denial.  We deny the problem past the point of rationality.  Then, we attempt to get sober and fail repeatedly.  At that point, it's a bit more complicated than just denial and this is when alcoholism is really in "full flower."  Most alcoholics enter treatment, followed by AA, or repeated attempts at both, and succeed when they are finally "sick and tired of being sick and tired" and all the other consequences that come with it.

Edited January 11, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Dewey 3298]

Probably wont say this the right way, but hes the one that needs convincing. When hes convinced,  I think it would be good for him to learn his parents of his addiction to alcohol,  to sit down with them and tell them just how much he drinks. Then he needs rehab,  plenty of it. Rehab isnt a bad place at all, it gives a person a time out in life to sort through all the crap.

Honesty is the order of the day, him getting honest with himself and others. 

[Larry T. Spider 1747]

Oh, they are messed up. Check the bitch about your family/in-laws thread in lulz for a dose of it. They really aren’t in charge of caring for him but he is living with them. He recently got a new job in the area and moved in with them before getting his own place set up. He makes just under 6 figures so he can afford to move out.

But they are living together so I feel like they need to be a part of the solution. Brutal is probably better for them, honestly. Anything too polite and they will continue to live in denial. How hard should they be pushing him to go to treatment right now? 

Seriously, thanks for the responses.

[Larry T. Spider 1747]

1 minute ago, Dewey said:

Probably wont say this the right way, but hes the one that needs convincing. When hes convinced,  I think it would be good for him to learn his parents of his addiction to alcohol,  to sit down with them and tell them just how much he drinks. Then he needs rehab,  plenty of it. Rehab isnt a bad place at all, it gives a person a time out in life to sort through all the crap.

Honesty is the order of the day, him getting honest with himself and others. 

I don’t disagree with anything you said, I’m just not in a position to do any convincing. I don’t have that relationship with him nor the education on the subject. 

[Dewey 3298]

"drank himself into partial paralysis" and damaged some organs is the education, he just learned what alcohol can do to the body, he knows very little as to what it does to the mind. You can google "alcoholic mind" for more.

your sister hopefully can help with the honesty part, that's a big step in the recovery process.  Then he needs to be convinced that help is needed and that there are good places to go, and there are, find some suggestions for his area. 

honesty is the big first step, for him to admit he has an alcohol problem. whoever helps him with this step should be no.more than compassionate, just a helping hand, someone to trust. 

[TwiceHorn 31599]

Al-Anon, like AA, takes a certain amount of being sick of the alcohol(ic).  It's easy for total noobs to say "oh no, we're nothing like that" kind of like the alcoholic says the same thing regarding an AA meeting for the first time.

But the point needs to be made that normal people, even heavy drinkers, don't drink themselves into a state of paralysis and experience DTs so bad they can't be MRI'ed for days.  Make no mistake, those were DTs.  Delerium tremens straight out of skid row.

That point needs to be driven home to both of them and treatment is probably the next logical step.

Certainly kicking him out of the house is another logical step.

[Larry T. Spider 1747]

Would it be appropriate for them to demand that he enter treatment (or at least AA) or move out? I know that the alcoholic needs to have a certain amount of buy in for there to be success. But what other card can they play while he lives with them without being complete enablers?

[Reagan1k 3024]

12 hours ago, Larry T. Spider said:

Would it be appropriate for them to demand that he enter treatment (or at least AA) or move out? I know that the alcoholic needs to have a certain amount of buy in for there to be success. But what other card can they play while he lives with them without being complete enablers?

Nothing changes until something changes.

That may sound contrite and cliche but its the truth.  Something has to change in this situation for him to recover. The following are a few thoughts / points and I or others even better equipped can elaborate on those for which you request follow-up;

1) Most alcoholics who are still somewhat functional (holding down a job) think they can "manage" the situation or disease (I know I did).  I fancied myself as a highly functional alcoholic.  The truth is that alcoholism is progressive; it never gets better and always gets worse.  His trajectory is downward from here if he doesn't stop drinking.  He will not be able to moderate or maintain a status quo if he is a real alcoholic.

2) Alcoholism is a family disease.  It affects both the family unit as a whole and each individual separately.  While the family cannot cure him or stop him from drinking, they can as a unit and as individuals make changes that set boundaries which create consequences that may inspire change on the part of the drinker.  Regardless of his actions, those boundaries also help the family unit to survive. 

3) Consequences are the fuel in the engine that drives one to seek recovery.  As @TwiceHorn said, he has to get sick and tired of being sick and tired.  Consequences resulting from his continued drinking may get him to that point.  As has been stated, he has to be the one who wants to stop, but the family can do things that set healthy boundaries which may hasten that process.  Otherwise, he may kill himself.

4) For me, talking one on one to a recovered alcoholic was the game changer.  Hearing someone else talk about their drinking and feelings about drinking to which I could relate was a game changer.  Hearing that they found a solution which had escaped me for years was a relief.  That, and reading the first 164 pages of the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous - ESPECIALLY the chapter entitled The Doctor's Opinion gave me the nudge I needed. 

Were I in your shoes, I'd seek out a sober member of AA - maybe someone in their circle of friends or in their town he might know and respect.  Ask that person to speak with him one on one - The AA member would call this a 12-Step Call.  They'll know what to do.  That person could then also speak to the family separately.  From there, decisions on treatment and outside help for the family can start to be processed.

Opening his eyes to the disease, the possibility of recovery, and the consequences of the alternative is what is needed now in my opinion.  From there, it is up to him.  All you and your wife can do is help find a way to have the seed planted in his mind.  From there he has to make the choice.

[TwiceHorn 31599]

Reagan always posts what I'm thinking.  Out of rep.

That is about as good advice, stated plainly, as can be given in the situation. 

If no one comes to mind that is in recovery, a call to your local AA Intergroup (duckduckgo is your friend) will help you find someone to do it.  Or, if in-laws are churchgoing folks, many/most churches host an AA group and the pastoral care minister is almost doubtlessly in touch with someone who makes 12th step calls and that adds an element of familiarity.

A sidenote on AA.  Most groups have any number of attendees that are there begrudgingly, that is, under family or legal pressure or order.  Sometimes that takes, a lot of the time it doesn't.   As mentioned, there are people who under their own volition walk into an AA meeting and get permanently sober and into recovery, but most of those people feel that they are at the end of their rope.  The average alcoholic takes some fits and starts.  Yours truly dinked at it for nearly three years before it took.  I also never drank myself into paralysis or had the DTs (probably would have but was detoxed).

If you are going to "force" something, treatment is probably a better starting place than merely showing up to some AA meetings.  

Edited January 11, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Larry T. Spider 1747]

16 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

Nothing changes until something changes.

That may sound contrite and cliche but its the truth.  Something has to change in this situation for him to recover. The following are a few thoughts / points and I or others even better equipped can elaborate on those for which you request follow-up;

1) Most alcoholics who are still somewhat functional (holding down a job) think they can "manage" the situation or disease (I know I did).  I fancied myself as a highly functional alcoholic.  The truth is that alcoholism is progressive; it never gets better and always gets worse.  His trajectory is downward from here if he doesn't stop drinking.  He will not be able to moderate or maintain a status quo if he is a real alcoholic.

2) Alcoholism is a family disease.  It affects both the family unit as a whole and each individual separately.  While the family cannot cure him or stop him from drinking, they can as a unit and as individuals make changes that set boundaries which create consequences that may inspire change on the part of the drinker.  Regardless of his actions, those boundaries also help the family unit to survive. 

3) Consequences are the fuel in the engine that drives one to seek recovery.  As @TwiceHorn said, he has to get sick and tired of being sick and tired.  Consequences resulting from his continued drinking may get him to that point.  As has been stated, he has to be the one who wants to stop, but the family can do things that set healthy boundaries which may hasten that process.  Otherwise, he may kill himself.

4) For me, talking one on one to a recovered alcoholic was the game changer.  Hearing someone else talk about their drinking and feelings about drinking to which I could relate was a game changer.  Hearing that they found a solution which had escaped me for years was a relief.  That, and reading the first 164 pages of the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous - ESPECIALLY the chapter entitled The Doctor's Opinion gave me the nudge I needed. 

Were I in your shoes, I'd seek out a sober member of AA - maybe someone in their circle of friends or in their town he might know and respect.  Ask that person to speak with him one on one - The AA member would call this a 12-Step Call.  They'll know what to do.  That person could then also speak to the family separately.  From there, decisions on treatment and outside help for the family can start to be processed.

Opening his eyes to the disease, the possibility of recovery, and the consequences of the alternative is what is needed now in my opinion.  From there, it is up to him.  All you and your wife can do is help find a way to have the seed planted in his mind.  From there he has to make the choice.

Much appreciated. Seriously.

1. I think this will be him, but I do think we have a window where he is scared enough to seek change. He and his parents are stubborn individuals in general, which will make this difficult. 

2. This is a family of enablers. They are in no way capable of doing their part without outside help. In fact, I believe they would unwittingly sabotage the recovery process unless they have very strict instructions. Having somebody come out to talk with them is a good idea. I honestly don’t know if the MIL will talk to someone not affiliated with the Catholic Church. I’ll work on that.

3. I agree but need more information on what are healthy boundaries to set.

4. I’ll get on that. Does the big book have information for families?

[TwiceHorn 31599]

7 hours ago, Larry T. Spider said:

Much appreciated. Seriously.

1. I think this will be him, but I do think we have a window where he is scared enough to seek change. He and his parents are stubborn individuals in general, which will make this difficult. 

2. This is a family of enablers. They are in no way capable of doing their part without outside help. In fact, I believe they would unwittingly sabotage the recovery process unless they have very strict instructions. Having somebody come out to talk with them is a good idea. I honestly don’t know if the MIL will talk to someone not affiliated with the Catholic Church. I’ll work on that.

3. I agree but need more information on what are healthy boundaries to set.

4. I’ll get on that. Does the big book have information for families?

I would guess that most Catholic priests are familiar with AA and heartily endorse it.  There may even be a priest available for a 12th step call.  Probably also a good resource for straight talk to the family.

You can find the Big Book here.  There are chapters you see for wives and family.  They aren't bad.  But, while AA and the Big Book are remarkable works of moral psychology from lay practitioners, the problems of co-dependency and the effect on the family were not well understood by its authors and were not really the ones they were trying to help back then.

The program of AA is very spiritually oriented, but is not religious per se.  It does, however, dovetail nicely with any religious tradition.  

[BearSchlong 8128]

On 1/10/2020 at 8:28 PM, Larry T. Spider said:

Would it be appropriate for them to demand that he enter treatment (or at least AA) or move out? I know that the alcoholic needs to have a certain amount of buy in for there to be success. But what other card can they play while he lives with them without being complete enablers?

Firstly, echoing everything said since your post on Friday.

It's absolutely appropriate for everyone involved to speak plainly about the direct consequences of his actions, and to place conditions around his living there.  To NOT do so prevents allowing him the dignity of experiencing the consequences of his own actions.

First step of Alcoholics Anonymous. . ."we admitted we were powerless over alcohol and that our lives had become unmanageable."

I worked the 2nd part of that step first by creating unmanageability. . .which actually was manifested by burning my family life down and moving back in with my parents at 38.  Dad has a guest house on property so I used that to justify that I wasn't really homeless, I was like Kato Kaelin.  I also ended up in the hospital as a direct result of my drinking, not organ failure but a single car accident.  Same thing - direct consequences of drinking.

It wasn't until later that i bought in to the disease concept of alcoholism.  I had to look at the overwhelming evidence layed out beautifully in the first few chapters of AA's big book, and accept it as the truth about myself.

That's the thing that needs to be emphasized. . .that it's an illness, nothing more, nothing less.  It's not a moral shortcoming.  He is a very sick man - exactly as if he had cancer, or a heart attack, etc.

This is a turning point moment, one of those rare instances in life where sustained, meaningful change can take place.  We call it a moment of clarity - your BIL may never have that, but your sister and family sure can - a moment of clarity about the most contagious disease in existence, alcoholism.

 

 

[Reagan1k 3024]

3 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

That's the thing that needs to be emphasized. . .that it's an illness, nothing more, nothing less.  It's not a moral shortcoming.  He is a very sick man - exactly as if he had cancer, or a heart attack, etc.

I think this part is a huge factor in helping both the alcoholic and the family to understand what is going on.   The faster this is taken to heart the better.

There is an actual allergy (abnormal reaction to a substance)  with alcohol which creates a craving for more alcohol once any is consumed by an alcoholic.

That's why many of us say that its the 1st drink that gets us drunk.  Because the alcoholic only knows one normal (his/hers),  they don't realize that a normal drinker has a drink or two and it is over with nor more or less craving than if it had been iced tea.  There is no reaction in the cellular levels of the normal body that creates a physical craving. 

We spend years trying and sometimes die fighting the craving; wanting to be able to drink like a normie - when it is physically impossible.

For an alcoholic - this phenomenon is real - not imaginary.  Cells crave more alcohol and the mind becomes obsessed.  My idea of eternal hell would be being forced to have one drink a day and then having to sit and stew for 24 hours.  That's the craving brought on by the allergy.  Misery is not being able to feed that craving once it is triggered by the 1st drink.

I had no idea that a normal drinker could have one drink and then not have to white knuckle it in order to not have a second or 10th.

I assumed that anyone who had one drink craved - literally craved another.  The concept of having one happy hour beer at 5pm and then nothing the rest of the night was baffling.  I assumed that everyone having a mimosa or Bloody Mary at brunch simply continued to drink all day because that's what my body required.

Normal drinkers don't experience that sensation.  Their body metabolizes the alcohol in a different way and the craving doesn't occur.

It's vital that the alcoholic understand that.......to realize that they are different in that regard, and equally vital for the family to understand that the alcoholic can't stop the craving once the 1st drink goes in.....that its not will power or lack of discipline to pass on drinks 2-20.  It is a reaction at the cellular level.

The quicker this educational process happens, the better equipped all will be to get down to the nitty gritty of recovery.  This knowledge alone doesn't solve the problem, but it enables everyone involved to then use time tested solutions and professional help to create a defense from the 1st drink and to properly support the drinker.

 

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Reagan1k