2019 NBA Offseason Thread -- Trades, Free Agents, Firings, Retirements, Etc

[Sbbruin 22144]

2 minutes ago, Reynolds Woodcock said:

I am genuinely interested to see your reasons for coming to this conclusion. 

I am too.

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

I am too.  And I live in San Antonio and have never been to Toronto.  I'll be honest, San Antonio is probably the worst city in Texas for young and rich.  Old and rich, sure, young and poor, absolutely.

[Kermit 3162]

Most NBA players do not live in the city they play for. I’ve done shit for research on this topic, but if I had to guess I would estimate that 245% of the NBA lives in Los Angeles.

[hobbes2702 13477]

4 hours ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

I am too.  And I live in San Antonio and have never been to Toronto.  I'll be honest, San Antonio is probably the worst city in Texas for young and rich.  Old and rich, sure, young and poor, absolutely.

This x1000

[hobbes2702 13477]

3 hours ago, Kermit said:

Most NBA players do not live in the city they play for. I’ve done shit for research on this topic, but if I had to guess I would estimate that 245% of the NBA lives in Los Angeles.

Like half the Spurs live in the same neighborhood in San Antonio

Edited June 5, 2019 by hobbes2702

[SilasCoade 2622]

Let's first stipulate that no city sucks to live in if you are young and rich.

I've been to Toronto as a young broke-ass roadie for a band and as a middle aged doctor with a little bit of scratch. The tour stop in Buffalo that summer was more fun than Toronto. Toronto is the Dallas of Canada.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8984]

The nba cities for the most part are striving and unique in their own different ways. Aside from the weather argument between the north vs south and outside of ny/la... every city would be desirable for a young man making millions.

Besides the weather, you're on the road for 41 games equating to probably 70+ nights for travel and hotels. Southern city players would hardly enjoy the nice weather

[Michael Knight 13223]

Lets be clear here, Kawhi doesn't have a night life and he doesn't have fun

[SA-KC_Horn 1298]

1 hour ago, Michael Knight said:

Lets be clear here, Kawhi doesn't have a night life and he doesn't have fun

Only when South Austin's mom is around. 

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

11 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

Lets be clear here, Kawhi doesn't have a night life and he doesn't have fun

Let's also be clear here, kawhi is apparently not in charge of kawhi.  Does uncle Dennis like the warm weather and night lide.?

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

1 hour ago, Llogg said:

Let's first stipulate that no city sucks to live in if you are young and rich.

I've been to Toronto as a young broke-ass roadie for a band and as a middle aged doctor with a little bit of scratch. The tour stop in Buffalo that summer was more fun than Toronto. Toronto is the Dallas of Canada.

Have you ever gone there while you were literally the best athlete in the city? And lets just say hypothetically that Toronto is the Dallas of Canada (which I don't agree with at all). Living in Dallas as the most famous athlete in that city>>>>>Living in SA as the most famous athlete in that city. The night life. The women. It really isn't even close in my opinion. 

57 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

The nba cities for the most part are striving and unique in their own different ways. Aside from the weather argument between the north vs south and outside of ny/la... every city would be desirable for a young man making millions.

Besides the weather, you're on the road for 41 games equating to probably 70+ nights for travel and hotels. Southern city players would hardly enjoy the nice weather

While that's true, if give a choice, you aren't living in Salt Lake City, Oklahoma City, and San Antonio. Those  have to be pretty far down the list of places any young man making millions would want to go, given the other options. If Poppovich left and the spurs turned into a bottom of the barrel team, I could easily see them getting moved to a place like Seattle, or Nashville.

[conVINCEd 21477]

Houston has good scrip clubs.

[Aqua Buddha 14806]

20 hours ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

I am too.  And I live in San Antonio and have never been to Toronto.  I'll be honest, San Antonio is probably the worst city in Texas for young and rich.  Old and rich, sure, young and poor, absolutely.

That's an excellent way to put it and I like San Antonio.  

I'll put this on the table but there's also a racial component to this.  Most NBA players and young African Americans and SA has like seven black people, which is about the same amount as OKC, Salt Lake City, and Sacramento.  Toronto is great in that regard.

If you factor this into the equation, the Hawks have always been a sleeping giant on this.  Had they gotten the #1 and Zion to go with Trae Young, they would have been an instant landing spot for a bunch of free agents and be a contender in the east in two years.

 

[Vic Mackey 47959]

 

[aggie08 21800]

KD and KI going to Brooklyn instead of the New York because Dolan and his front office are such unmitigated disasters would be quintessential Knicks. 

[Jhawk 1075]

17 hours ago, Llogg said:

Let's first stipulate that no city sucks to live in if you are young and rich.

I've been to Toronto as a young broke-ass roadie for a band and as a middle aged doctor with a little bit of scratch. The tour stop in Buffalo that summer was more fun than Toronto. Toronto is the Dallas of Canada.

Disagree. I’m 34 and rich and am looking for the earliest possible out to leave Tulsa. 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8984]

KD and KI going to Brooklyn instead of the New York because Dolan and his front office are such unmitigated disasters would be quintessential Knicks. 

Absolute back breaker for a franchise who struck out on lebron and potentially KD, again.

And they really don't have a future right now unless barrett pans out

[Jhawk 1075]

34 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Absolute back breaker for a franchise who struck out on lebron and potentially KD, again.

And they really don't have a future right now unless barrett pans out

The Knicks suck and will always suck with their ownership.  The truth is they haven't been a factor for 19 years now.  Once Ewing's broken ass knees retired and Van Gundy was out they turned to absolute shit.  And the truth is that they had 2 great seasons in the 20 years prior to Gundy's tenure as well, neither of them resulting in a championship.

The only reason the Knicks are expected to be good is because they are in a big market.  But the fact is that they are a loser team for 89% of their miserable existence. 2 Championships in 8 Championship round appearances in 73 years of life.  All but 2 of their appearances came before the merger when there were 11, 10, 10, 14, and 17 teams in the league.

New York fucking sucks and there should be no expectation that they will ever be good.  Nothing in their history says they should be good.

Edited June 5, 2019 by Jhawk

[Message Board User 12405]

7 hours ago, aggie08 said:

KD and KI going to Brooklyn instead of the New York because Dolan and his front office are such unmitigated disasters would be quintessential Knicks. 

Looking back, it appears the Kyrie trade was one of those rare trades that made both teams worse.

[SilasCoade 2622]

1 hour ago, Message Board User said:

Looking back, it appears the Kyrie trade was one of those rare trades that made both teams worse.

those aren't rare.

[Dutchrudder 11243]

12 hours ago, Llogg said:

those aren't rare.

Name some more please.  A lot of trades have little to no impact on some teams, but making a team worse by creating a toxic environment on both sides is pretty rare. 

[Murfdogg21 4563]

Income tax savings obviously means virtually nothing to pro athletes because it never stops players from wanting to go to teams in LA and SF. It doesn’t seem to drive players to teams in Texas, Florida, or Tennessee. 

Although it’s funny when athletes nickel and dime in contract negotiations over that last million, and they could have taken less in Texas or Florida and put more after tax money in the bank. 

[Patrick Bateman 3980]

Oh my..... Brooklyn going for two max free agents.  Kyrie and KD?

If Kyrie comes on board, they could let Russell walk or do a sign and trade.

This gives Atlanta a lot of assets in the draft.

 

[d2o 1603]

Nets betting a lot.   They had to give up 2  1sts to get rid of Crabbe.    They got let off the hook when they signed him to that ridiculous offer sheet cause POR matched.........then they went and traded for him anyway.

 

Guess it will all be moot if they can actually land two big time guys but that Crabbe saga has been a SERIES of horrible management moves.

[Patrick Bateman 3980]

4 minutes ago, d2o said:

Nets betting a lot.   They had to give up 2  1sts to get rid of Crabbe.    They got let off the hook when they signed him to that ridiculous offer sheet cause POR matched.........then they went and traded for him anyway.

 

Guess it will all be moot if they can actually land two big time guys but that Crabbe saga has been a SERIES of horrible management moves.

Yea, not one of Marks' shining moments.  Bad trade for Crabbe, now has to undo it.

 

[Message Board User 12405]

48 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Yea, not one of Marks' shining moments.  Bad trade for Crabbe, now has to undo it.

 

But give credit where it's due - that Celtics-Nets trade was the Hiroshima bomb to the franchise and the fact that they actually made the playoffs this year and are now in position to get 1 or 2 of the top FAs nothing short of phenomenal.

 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

I’m admitting this is a dumb question, as I don’t watch a lot of eastern conference basketball, but based on Kyrie’s recent stint with the Celtics, and Russell’s upward trajectory, why would they let Russell walk to give Kyrie a max deal? I ask that because that would be a shame for Russell. Seems to have matured a little bit and he’s developing into a star.

[Jhawk 1075]

I would keep Russell too unless getting KD was dependent on getting kyrie. If that was the requirement then KD is an idiot. Kyrie is a better shooting version of Westbrook. If KD wants to make a team that moves the ball with him as the focal point then teaming up with kyrie might not be the best option. If he wants to go back to trading off who isolated and scores then him and kyrie are perfect for each other. Just seems weird for him to leave that style just to go back to that style. 

Edited June 6, 2019 by Jhawk

[Patrick Bateman 3980]

56 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I’m admitting this is a dumb question, as I don’t watch a lot of eastern conference basketball, but based on Kyrie’s recent stint with the Celtics, and Russell’s upward trajectory, why would they let Russell walk to give Kyrie a max deal? I ask that because that would be a shame for Russell. Seems to have matured a little bit and he’s developing into a star.

Well, they're probably going to have to max or get near to keep Russell too so while Kyrie gets more because of his tenure in the league, as a UFA, the delta won't be as much as Russell, who would be a Bird extension (5 years).  I think the starting salaries would difference would be less than 5 million and Kyrie's not old so you'd only be on the hook for him into his 30th age year.  As players on the court, the metrics and numbers are much better for Irving, even with Russell having a career year.  Russell may continue to improve or he may sort of hit his level -- a really nice player on a .500ish team.  Russell would need to continue his trend line and player development typically doesn't work in a straight line.  Think about Reggie Jackson with his first year in Detroit.  Would fans clamor for them to keep him over Kyrie?  What didn't he continue to improve?

Rk	Player	Season	Age	G	MP	PER	TS%	3PAr	FTr	ORB%	DRB%	TRB%	AST%	STL%	BLK%	TOV%	USG%		OWS	DWS	WS	WS/48		OBPM	DBPM	BPM	VORP
1	Reggie Jackson	2015-16	25	79	2424	19.6	.535	.268	.271	2.5	9.1	5.7	36.3	1.2	0.3	13.8	29.1		4.9	1.9	6.9	.136		3.9	-1.6	2.3	2.6
2	D'Angelo Russell	2018-19	22	81	2448	19.4	.533	.419	.135	2.3	11.2	6.8	41.3	1.9	0.6	13.6	31.9		2.4	2.6	5.0	.097		3.9	-0.5	3.4	3.3

Look at the similarities.  The big difference is age and that's the tantalizing asset for Russell.  Or... or, sign Kyrie and someone like KD and re-sign Russell and play them together.  Wouldn't be ideal as both are smaller guards and defensively they may not mesh but it's an option.  If you think you're window is 3-4 years then some may feel that Kyrie even with his risks (knees, attitude, leadership, injury, etc) is a better bet than Russell as he's already the much better player between the white lines:

Rk	Player	Season	Age	G	MP	PER	TS%	3PAr	FTr	ORB%	DRB%	TRB%	AST%	STL%	BLK%	TOV%	USG%		OWS	DWS	WS	WS/48		OBPM	DBPM	BPM	VORP
1	Kyrie Irving	2018-19	26	67	2214	24.3	.592	.350	.197	3.4	12.7	8.1	35.0	2.2	1.4	11.3	29.6		6.2	2.9	9.1	.197		6.0	0.4	6.4	4.7
2	D'Angelo Russell	2018-19	22	81	2448	19.4	.533	.419	.135	2.3	11.2	6.8	41.3	1.9	0.6	13.6	31.9		2.4	2.6	5.0	.097		3.9	-0.5	3.4	3.3

Yea, Kyrie has been a let down as a team alpha (or whatever you want to call them), but if he realizes his shortcomings as a leader and is willing to either cede or share responsibility with another star then you can diffuse the situation.  Kyrie sucked in the playoffs this year but Russell was a nightmare, which is okay, it was his first time.  That's a long post to basically say, Kyrie is a much better ball player right now and with not much of a price difference, some would rather have a bird in the hand rather rely on someone getting to the next level.

 

[hobbes2702 13477]

1 hour ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I’m admitting this is a dumb question, as I don’t watch a lot of eastern conference basketball, but based on Kyrie’s recent stint with the Celtics, and Russell’s upward trajectory, why would they let Russell walk to give Kyrie a max deal? I ask that because that would be a shame for Russell. Seems to have matured a little bit and he’s developing into a star.

Because as much as DeAngelo has improved he isn’t and won’t ever be at the same level as Kyrie

[BigOrange1 6611]

yeah i'm a fan of russell and think he's gonna be a good player for a while, but he ain't kyrie. 

[ChickenSandwich 9959]

If the Nets sign KD and KI, the Bucks can’t still overpay their core knowing it would not be enough, right?

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

Fair enough. I didn’t know if there was any credence to Kyrie being a cancer considering he forced his way out of Cleveland and kept throwing his teammates under the bus in Boston. But again, I’m admitting I don’t know what I’m talking about on this topic lol.

[hobbes2702 13477]

16 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

If the Nets sign KD and KI, the Bucks can’t still overpay their core knowing it would not be enough, right?

They already overpaid Bledsoe so they might be stuck at this point and have to

[hobbes2702 13477]

11 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Fair enough. I didn’t know if there was any credence to Kyrie being a cancer considering he forced his way out of Cleveland and kept throwing his teammates under the bus in Boston. But again, I’m admitting I don’t know what I’m talking about on this topic lol.

I dunno if he’s a cancer or just a weird dude that kinda rubs people wrong. He’s better than Deangelo but I would rather have Deangelo unless I had an alpha to pair with Kyrie (AD, KD, or LBJ).

[aggie08 21800]

20 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

If the Nets sign KD and KI, the Bucks can’t still overpay their core knowing it would not be enough, right?

I don't think KD and KI going to Brooklyn would make them the overwhelming favorites in the East.  They'd be in the conversation, obviously, and maybe even the betting favorite.  But there's some duplication of skill there, so the total may be slightly less than the sum of its parts.  Would they run and shoot as much as Brooklyn has the past 2 years, or would they slow down and take turns playing iso?  Neither are particularly great off the ball, and it's hard for me to see Kyrie taking a clear sidekick "I'm over here when you need me" role like he did with LeBron.  

I wouldn't bet against them, especially in Kawhi leaves the East, but I don't think it would be a slam dunk sure thing.

[d2o 1603]

1 hour ago, ChickenSandwich said:

If the Nets sign KD and KI, the Bucks can’t still overpay their core knowing it would not be enough, right?

I dont think that makes them better than MIL

[Message Board User 12405]

Spurs making a determined run at the...6 seed.

 

[Message Board User 12405]

 

[Patrick Bateman 3980]

52 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

Spurs making a determined run at the...6 seed.

 

Assuming Bogs gets about 3 for mid 40's, I'd almost certainly have him.  Shit, he could get 16/17 million per and I'd probably rather have him than DeRozan, who is a good player but still overpaid.  All of that said, I'm skeptical of the source and I think the Pacers, who have a ton of cap space, would really like to re-sign him.

 

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

Ooops, for some e reason I was thinking boban marjonovic.

[Message Board User 12405]

1 hour ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Assuming Bogs gets about 3 for mid 40's, I'd almost certainly have him.  Shit, he could get 16/17 million per and I'd probably rather have him than DeRozan, who is a good player but still overpaid.  All of that said, I'm skeptical of the source and I think the Pacers, who have a ton of cap space, would really like to re-sign him.

 

If it's an either or between Bogs & Demarr, I think I'd rather have Demarr as that $27 million expiring deal in 20-21 will make an awfully good trade chip.

Bogs (who just turned 30) instead of Demarr does not move the needle at all.

[Patrick Bateman 3980]

Hmmm....

 

[Rockethorn1978 6205]

So AD says only the lakers or knicks? Since when does a guy that has another year left on his contract get to decide? The NO front office needs to grow a pair and say “if you don’t want to play here fine but we decide what’s the best package for you for our franchise”. 

IMO if they let AD whine and decide for them then the entire league will be guys signing 3-5 year deals then whining and demanding trades to only where they wanna be at. Fuck that. Ship his ass to Charlotte if that’s the best package of players and draft picks you can get or man up and finish out your contract. 

[Jhawk 1075]

The problem is now Charlotte won’t offer shit for him because he said he won’t sign there. Pelicans are fucked because it’s a player’s league. Pelicans are lucky NY and LA are two team cities that have at least decent assets to offer. If he said he’s only going to Miami then they’d be absolutely fucked because there would be no competition in the market for him. At least the nets and clippers can offer something with the hope he just means he wants to be in LA or NY and not specifically with the lakers or knicks. 

Edited June 11, 2019 by Jhawk

[Patrick Bateman 3980]

 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8984]

16 hours ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

So AD says only the lakers or knicks? Since when does a guy that has another year left on his contract get to decide? The NO front office needs to grow a pair and say “if you don’t want to play here fine but we decide what’s the best package for you for our franchise”. 

IMO if they let AD whine and decide for them then the entire league will be guys signing 3-5 year deals then whining and demanding trades to only where they wanna be at. Fuck that. Ship his ass to Charlotte if that’s the best package of players and draft picks you can get or man up and finish out your contract. 

its annoying that the league has come to this. maybe itll settle down when the entitled LeBron era is over.

[d2o 1603]

We've seen this twice over the last couple seasons.  Guys wanting to get traded to one place while the team takes the best package and send him elsewhere.   PG stayed and I wouldn't eb completely surprised if Kawhi ends up staying.    I don't think the Pels will bend and trade him to where he wants to go unless they get a great deal.   

The hand wringing is overdone IMO

 

[Patrick Bateman 3980]

Only a few things have changed since Davis formally asked to be traded.  First, the Lakers package became murkier as Brandon Ingram has a blood clotting issue.  Second, the main executive in charge of trading Davis has changed and is now David Griffin.  Third, the Cans won the lottery and get Zion.  Griffin seems more willing to work with the Lakers if they meet certain criteria but he hasn't seem to capitulate at all.  He simply wants the best deal he can get, whether that's from the Lakers or Magic or Nets or whomever.  Probably the right strategy.  Other than Kawhi most likely staying, only reinforcing the idea that teams should take more chances on stars headed into a walk year if they have the organizational stability and surrounding pieces to push their case for staying, what is everyone whining about?

Edited June 11, 2019 by Patrick Bateman

[Don Johnson 4847]

NO should have the right to trade AD anywhere they want.  And they do.  And AD should have the right to not sign an extension with that team.  And he does.

Of course, his value goes way up if he agrees to sign an extension, which he apparently will do with NY or LA.