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2019 NBA Offseason Thread -- Trades, Free Agents, Firings, Retirements, Etc

Patrick Bateman

By Patrick Bateman
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Sbbruin

Sbbruin 21861

Posted
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1 minute ago, Machinator said:

 

I wonder which top level FA would WANT to sign with Boston.  It's one thing to have the cap space, it's another to spend it wisely (see the Wiz).  With so many teams having tons of cap space, there are going to be a lot of teams hamstrung by contracts paying tier 1 money to tier 2, or 3, players.

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d2o

d2o 1602

Posted
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I knew horford opting out seemed weird.  Only thing that makes sense is he wanted out of Boston.   He wouldn't opt out without a deal in principal if he wanted to stay.   Gonna be tough for him to get that 30M back going to another team.

 

 

Going to the lakers does sound like a good fit for him.  At what cost though?

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d2o

d2o 1602

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12 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Does he though? That would require all their remaining cap space and they have literally 0 guards on the roster right now. 

Depends on what he is willing to take and/or what offers he gets on the open market.  From a style of play perspective he would fit great

Edited by d2o
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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14724

Posted
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32 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Does he though? That would require all their remaining cap space and they have literally 0 guards on the roster right now. 

It makes no sense at all. You have 3 guys currently on the roster that expect to play the majority of the 4/5 minutes already.

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Patrick Bateman

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On Horford.  I wonder who this may be?  I agree with earlier posts that Horford to the Lakers makes little sense with Lebron and AD.  Spacing and shooting becomes a major issue and one would think the preferred front line would be James, Kuzma and AD.  If you read this guys article, he reports he's been told the 4 year interest is by a team out West.  No idea on the validity.

 

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Machinator

Machinator 32099

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3 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

On Horford.  I wonder who this may be?  I agree with earlier posts that Horford to the Lakers makes little sense with Lebron and AD.  Spacing and shooting becomes a major issue and one would think the preferred front line would be James, Kuzma and AD.  If you read this guys article, he reports he's been told the 4 year interest is by a team out West.  No idea on the validity.

 

What's wrong with the spacing? Horford has shot 35%+ from 3 his last three seasons.

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BigOrange1

BigOrange1 6442

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2 minutes ago, Machinator said:

What's wrong with the spacing? Horford has shot 35%+ from 3 his last three seasons.

exactly, horford can shoot from 3.  so can davis.  just as important, it allows davis to play the 4 where he wants to play.  and that team would be a great interior defensive team.

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Patrick Bateman

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4 minutes ago, Machinator said:

What's wrong with the spacing? Horford has shot 35%+ from 3 his last three seasons.

Most of those are standstill 3's with little movement beyond the PNR, Lebron can't just run around going PNR off a double screen all the time.   Additionally, are you going to force Kuzma (who already has defensive issues) to play small?   Fucking good luck.  Defensively trying to move with those two bigs and Lebron and Kuzma makes them defensive liabilities.  Plus, going 4 years with Horford at 25m+ would make any additions or improvements to the Lakers down the road basically impossible.  Look, they can do it, Ugly Rob Lowe has shown he doesn't give a fuck beyond next year and 2020 but what team works with double posts defensively and 2 guys who can't dribble drive roaming around the perimeter?  Generally a team only wants one guy who needs to dive to the hoop.

Beyond that, if the Houston stuff is true (and the Rockets are disputing the two different reports), the West is in meltdown.

 

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Message Board User

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I'm curious what the Ainge and the Celtics are thinking - it almost seems like a rebuild or at least a significant retooling and conceding next season to the Raptors/Bucks/Sixers.

Creating cap space is great, but for who?  Kawhi or KD (even if he was healthy) ain't going there and tier 2 free agents really aren't going to move the needle (they are chock full of good not great players).

It just seems like they've stockpiled all of these assets and young talent for...what?  I suppose Brown and Tatum could take a huge leap and become top 10 players, but that seems very unlikely.

 

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14724

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10 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

If Jordan moves on, he makes some sense as Unicorn has a little dribble drive to his game.  Still, some stiff hips on defense but it works a little more.  Clippers maybe?   Kings?  Ugh.

 

Which Jordan are you talking about? The one the Mavricks traded in the deal for the Unicorn that is a FA?

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Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 19038

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1 hour ago, d2o said:

Depends on what he is willing to take and/or what offers he gets on the open market.  From a style of play perspective he would fit great

So you think he’s going to opt out of $30 mil to go take a discount with the Lakers?

ill say it again, Horford is opting out to maximize his career earnings.

22 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

exactly, horford can shoot from 3.  so can davis.  just as important, it allows davis to play the 4 where he wants to play.  and that team would be a great interior defensive team.

It would force LA to two have league minimum starting guards and force an aging Lebron to guard 3s instead of 4s. Not a good fit for the Lakers.

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3917

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1 minute ago, Message Board User said:

I'm curious what the Ainge and the Celtics are thinking - it almost seems like a rebuild or at least a significant retooling and conceding next season to the Raptors/Bucks/Sixers.

Creating cap space is great, but for who?  Kawhi or KD (even if he was healthy) ain't going there and tier 2 free agents really aren't going to move the needle (they are chock full of good not great players).

It just seems like they've stockpiled all of these assets and young talent for...what?  I suppose Brown and Tatum could take a huge leap and become top 10 players, but that seems very unlikely.

 

Danny's 4 level chess has seemed to really backfire on him.  He was too busy worrying about what he could buy and didn't notice the ground beneath had been sold.  We have deservedly crushed the Lakers for striking out with PG and then Kawhi, but Ainge looks even worse.  He could have paid up for Kawhi but thought he was sitting in the catbird's seat with his big stack of chips and tried to lean.  Wouldn't do the same for any of the other guys like Butler or Harris who came available via trade and maybe those guys don't make a difference but Kawhi sure did and the Celtics could have had him with arguably a better supporting cast than Toronto.  Now, the Kyrie and AD dreams have come to an ugly end and he may be sitting around with only Brown and Tatum and a lot of cap space to spend with each closer to free agency by a year.  A lot of time to flip the script but after today, the Celtics future, which was once so bright, looks a lot fuzzier.

 

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Message Board User

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4 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Danny's 4 level chess has seemed to really backfire on him.  He was too busy worrying about what he could buy and didn't notice the ground beneath had been sold.  We have deservedly crushed the Lakers for striking out with PG and then Kawhi, but Ainge looks even worse.  He could have paid up for Kawhi but thought he was sitting in the catbird's seat with his big stack of chips and tried to lean.  Wouldn't do the same for any of the other guys like Butler or Harris who came available via trade and maybe those guys don't make a difference but Kawhi sure did and the Celtics could have had him with arguably a better supporting cast than Toronto.  Now, the Kyrie and AD dreams have come to an ugly end and he may be sitting around with only Brown and Tatum and a lot of cap space to spend with each closer to free agency by a year.  A lot of time to flip the script but after today, the Celtics future, which was once so bright, looks a lot fuzzier.

 

It does give me some perverse pleasure seeing Kyrie wreck shop in the Celtics organization.

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UTDD

UTDD 362

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Boston's best scenario to me with Horford would have been an opt-in for one year and then trading him during the season for more youth or at worst just letting him go next summer for nothing, but otherwise it's better they lose him for nothing than signing him to a four year deal with too high a value and especially given the rest of their roster right now.  He doesn't fit in their realistic window anymore with Kyrie/AD dreams gone.

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SilasCoade

SilasCoade 2622

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1 minute ago, Message Board User said:

I'm curious what the Ainge and the Celtics are thinking - it almost seems like a rebuild or at least a significant retooling and conceding next season to the Raptors/Bucks/Sixers.

Creating cap space is great, but for who?  Kawhi or KD (even if he was healthy) ain't going there and tier 2 free agents really aren't going to move the needle (they are chock full of good not great players).

It just seems like they've stockpiled all of these assets and young talent for...what?  I suppose Brown and Tatum could take a huge leap and become top 10 players, but that seems very unlikely.

 

If they let Irving and Horford walk, they have enough cap space to look at a range of guys that could be better fits and make them a younger team. Tobias Harris, DeAngelo Russell, Vucevic, Middleton, Randle, Brogdon, Lopez. I don't think you max any of those guys, but you could end up with a better team than this year while still getting younger/healthier. Hope that Gordon bounces back from a mediocre recovery year (make him contractually obligated to come back 10 pounds lighter) and potentially flip him before the trade deadline if your team isn't looking to be in contention.

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49247

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Machinator said:

 

Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.    Horford skills are diminishing and he needs to be on a team where he can come off the bench in a role like Serge Ibaka has for Raptors.  Horford is age 33 -- the Celtics dodge a bullet here by not signing him to a 4yr contract that Al wants.

Not sure losing Kyrie is that big of a loss for Boston either.  Having both Horford and Kyrie leaving the Celtics now is an opportunity for Boston to reshape their team.  Danny Ainge gets one last shot to prove his worth as a GM right now.  

"Boston, as of now, owns picks Nos. 14, 20 and 22, and per Wojnarowski, they "don't want to have three rookies on the team." So Boston has money and three 2019 1st Rd picks that they can use to make deals and/or add players to their roster.

Edited by LTtxfan
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SilasCoade

SilasCoade 2622

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I think Boston ends up with around 70M in space without Kyrie or Horford on the books, though not sure I understand the cap well enough to be confident in that. But if it's the case, that's enough to bring back Rozier at ~10M, Harris at 25M, Randle at 18-20M, and try to get a Vucevic at 15M or a combo of Baynes and Javale McGee for well under that. You've got a hole at PG, but you're stacked with long wings that can hit the three at 35-40% and play plus defense.

Would be interesting to see Boston use their picks to entice someone to take on Hayward's contract. Freeing them up to be more agressive in free agency than even the above. Take on a shot at DeAngelo Russell to the above in that case. You will effectively turn Kyrie + Horford + Hayward into Russell + Vucevic + Harris/Randle.

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3917

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30 minutes ago, Llogg said:

I think Boston ends up with around 70M in space without Kyrie or Horford on the books, though not sure I understand the cap well enough to be confident in that. But if it's the case, that's enough to bring back Rozier at ~10M, Harris at 25M, Randle at 18-20M, and try to get a Vucevic at 15M or a combo of Baynes and Javale McGee for well under that. You've got a hole at PG, but you're stacked with long wings that can hit the three at 35-40% and play plus defense.

Would be interesting to see Boston use their picks to entice someone to take on Hayward's contract. Freeing them up to be more agressive in free agency than even the above. Take on a shot at DeAngelo Russell to the above in that case. You will effectively turn Kyrie + Horford + Hayward into Russell + Vucevic + Harris/Randle.

More:

 

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HookEm

HookEm 2467

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Posted (edited)

If I'm Boston, I throw a max offer at Durant and make him say no. Then try to sign either DeAngelo Russell or Kemba.  If the money doesn't work out, make trades or salary dumps until it does.

Nevermind.  Looks like they won't have near $70M.

Edited by HookEm
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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49247

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20 minutes ago, Machinator said:

Right, but if they renounce all their free agents, they'll have nearly $30M in space. The answer to your above question is cap holds.

 

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2019/06/what-al-horford-leaving-in-free-agency-means-for-the-boston-celtics-and-what-could-be-next.html

Some specifics on cap space room from article:

Horford’s departure means Boston could open up about $28 million just by renouncing the rights to all of their free agents. There would be no return of Marcus Morris, Terry Rozier, or any of their other former players.

If Boston wanted to trim down even further, they could get to more than $33 million by finding their way out of this year’s draft. Trading out of this draft completely or selecting a “draft-and-stash” player who stays overseas for a year or two could get Boston to $33.5 million. Waiving Semi Ojeleye would get Boston to $34.2 million.

The Celtics aren’t realistically going to pare the roster all the way down to seven players, though. I’d expect Ojeleye would get a chance to show what he can do with playing time before the Celtics decide whether to pick up his team option next summer.

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Catdaddyhorn

Catdaddyhorn 3446

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1 hour ago, d2o said:

she is fucking awful.   I hope she is done

I actually think she's quite good and that their current pre-grame studio team is better than any iteration they've had in the recent past. Chauncey Billups is stale, but Pierce provides comedy with his ridiculous takes. Jalen is hit and miss, but for ESPN this is about as good as it gets. 

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