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2019 NBA Offseason Thread -- Trades, Free Agents, Firings, Retirements, Etc

Patrick Bateman

By Patrick Bateman
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Mitch Cumsteen
Mitch Cumsteen

We should all teach our children the following very valuable lessons: 1. when you are unhappy or want to be somewhere else, you should fake the severity of an injury and then go through 11 doctor

michaelpshayes
michaelpshayes
Hate
Hate

No, we want them to be consistent and not be hypocrites. I would prefer that they shut up and dribble, shoot, pitch, hit, tackle or kick but if you are going to be “woke”, don’t stop being woke only

d2o

d2o 1,602

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I almost spit out my drink when I read that too. They were 17-65 last year and just spent untold millions to maybe add 10 wins (if they are lucky) to that total. 

Meh, they struck out on the big names.   There is a salary floor that they have to get to and all of the deals (except Randle I think) are just one yr with a team opt for yr after.     they are making the best of what they could.   I can laugh at them striking out with all the big talk about how well they were gonna do this summer.    I don't really have an issue with what they did after they struck out.

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49,302

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Doubtful considering they got rid of him because he said the Warriors back balled Mark Jackson.

Yeah Iggy was made aware there was a decent chance he might be traded this offseason.... explains why Iggy was saying some negative things about Golden State during his new book tour for publicity.

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Aqua Buddha

Aqua Buddha 14,598

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, longhornmatt said:

OKC was worried Noel had learned to shoot, but then breathed a sigh of relief and agreed to sign him again after verifying that he still can’t.

Yeah, he's the most Presti of players ever.  Long, rangy, guy who can't shoot.  Imagine him and Andre Roberson on the floor at the same time.

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14,746

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, BigOrange1 said:

man, how is looney only making $5 million/year?

Yeah, I wonder if the 3rd year is a PO, because he might finally get to play over 20 minutes per game. What's also interesting is he didn't even play during their first Durant championship in the playoffs.

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UTDD

UTDD 362

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

If Troy Daniels is such an "elite shooter" why did he only cost $2.1M for a year??

He's a career 40.0% three point shooter, but he's also a career 40.2% overall shooter, so he is really a one trick pony that can't do anything else much.  You'd rather he never take a two point shot unless he is at the rim perhaps.

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Jhawk

Jhawk 1,075

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, Machinator said:

 

Nice of Spears to publish this text.  Now Enes's brother is probably a wanted man.  Didn't his entire family have to disavow Enes so they wouldn't be arrested?  I'm sure when the turkish gov't finds out they are communicating the whole family will be harassed.

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d2o

d2o 1,602

Posted
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28 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

Nice of Spears to publish this text.  Now Enes's brother is probably a wanted man.  Didn't his entire family have to disavow Enes so they wouldn't be arrested?  I'm sure when the turkish gov't finds out they are communicating the whole family will be harassed.

Yeah that isn't cool.

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Mitch Cumsteen

Mitch Cumsteen 18,550

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, Machinator said:

 

I get it that he will be 34 years old at the time, but how fucking generous of the Clippers to guarantee him another year of one of the most owner friendly contracts in the league. They are so philanthropic. Lou Williams is like the bizzarro Chandler Parsons.

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Jhawk

Jhawk 1,075

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Posted (edited)

I think the lack of cap smoothing is starting to show that the rich are getting richer and the mid-level players are getting the shaft on contracts.  The NBA GM's are getting surprisingly smarter with their contracts and only giving the biggest deals to top 20 players.  Then you seem to have a group of guys that are $18-24M guys (this is a small "middle class") and then everyone is making under $10M a year.  It seems to me that with the super max, the size of max deals, and the concentration of the "true" max players on a handful of teams you end up with a widening gap between the haves and the have nots.  Some teams that aren't getting a "true" max guy are paying above average guys huge money because the market deems it necessary (have to pay someone) but they are underpaying guys like Kanter who can be very solid contributors.  CJ McCollum comes to mind as a guy who is overpaid because he has to be and a lot of solid players are missing out on millions because the 2nd tier guys are paid so heavily.

When the dust settles I'd love to find a spot where I can download all 2019-2020 season contracts and make a visual on how many players fall into the $1-3M range, $3-5M range, 5-10M, 10-15M 15-18M, 18-24M and then >$24M.  I'd also like to play with tenure in the league with those numbers to see if my feeling of poors vs. rich NBA players is actually true or not.  Timing of when the contracts were signed would be good to see as well.  Has the gap been widening, narrowing, or staying the same since the last CBA was negotiated and how has the new TV deal changed things?

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aggie08

aggie08 21,505

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Posted

So, if Kawhi does go to the Lakers, do they just play the big 3 together for like the first 10 games and then 5 regular season games in April, alternating days off for the other 66+ games? A guaranteed 22 games off for all three of them. 2 out of 3 superstars is still good enough to win 80% of their games against the bottom half of the league. Go 50% against the top half, and that's an easy, well-rested playoff team.

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d2o

d2o 1,602

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I get it that he will be 34 years old at the time, but how fucking generous of the Clippers to guarantee him another year of one of the most owner friendly contracts in the league. They are so philanthropic. Lou Williams is like the bizzarro Chandler Parsons.

Right, they are not doing it out of the kindness of their hearts

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14,746

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3 hours ago, UTDD said:

He's a career 40.0% three point shooter, but he's also a career 40.2% overall shooter, so he is really a one trick pony that can't do anything else much.  You'd rather he never take a two point shot unless he is at the rim perhaps.

He's also an abysmal defensive player.

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49,302

Posted
Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

I think the lack of cap smoothing is starting to show that the rich are getting richer and the mid-level players are getting the shaft on contracts.  The NBA GM's are getting surprisingly smarter with their contracts and only giving the biggest deals to top 20 players.  Then you seem to have a group of guys that are $18-24M guys (this is a small "middle class") and then everyone is making under $10M a year.  It seems to me that with the super max, the size of max deals, and the concentration of the "true" max players on a handful of teams you end up with a widening gap between the haves and the have nots.  Some teams that aren't getting a "true" max guy are paying above average guys huge money because the market deems it necessary (have to pay someone) but they are underpaying guys like Kanter who can be very solid contributors.  CJ McCollum comes to mind as a guy who is overpaid because he has to be and a lot of solid players are missing out on millions because the 2nd tier guys are paid so heavily.

When the dust settles I'd love to find a spot where I can download all 2019-2020 season contracts and make a visual on how many players fall into the $1-3M range, $3-5M range, 5-10M, 10-15M 15-18M, 18-24M and then >$24M.  I'd also like to play with tenure in the league with those numbers to see if my feeling of poors vs. rich NBA players is actually true or not.  Timing of when the contracts were signed would be good to see as well.  Has the gap been widening, narrowing, or staying the same since the last CBA was negotiated and how has the new TV deal changed things?

Really interesting post.

What I don't care for are the buyout situations where a player like Iggy is traded, then immediately bought out of current contract, and then go directly to a team like the Lakers on minimum contracts. 

A terribly mismanaged Laker team then has the chance to be a Super Team and quickly win a Championship again just because the team happens to be in Los Angeles.  Team's like Sacramento, Charlotte and Minnesota never can recover as quickly from Draft/Trade/Contract mistakes like the Lakers can.

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d2o

d2o 1,602

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21 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

I think the lack of cap smoothing is starting to show that the rich are getting richer and the mid-level players are getting the shaft on contracts.  The NBA GM's are getting surprisingly smarter with their contracts and only giving the biggest deals to top 20 players.  Then you seem to have a group of guys that are $18-24M guys (this is a small "middle class") and then everyone is making under $10M a year.  It seems to me that with the super max, the size of max deals, and the concentration of the "true" max players on a handful of teams you end up with a widening gap between the haves and the have nots.  Some teams that aren't getting a "true" max guy are paying above average guys huge money because the market deems it necessary (have to pay someone) but they are underpaying guys like Kanter who can be very solid contributors.  CJ McCollum comes to mind as a guy who is overpaid because he has to be and a lot of solid players are missing out on millions because the 2nd tier guys are paid so heavily.

When the dust settles I'd love to find a spot where I can download all 2019-2020 season contracts and make a visual on how many players fall into the $1-3M range, $3-5M range, 5-10M, 10-15M 15-18M, 18-24M and then >$24M.  I'd also like to play with tenure in the league with those numbers to see if my feeling of poors vs. rich NBA players is actually true or not.  Timing of when the contracts were signed would be good to see as well.  Has the gap been widening, narrowing, or staying the same since the last CBA was negotiated and how has the new TV deal changed things?

Out of curiosity who on POR is missing out due to CJ being "overpaid"?   Meyers Leonard, Moe Harkless, and Evan Turner made a combined 40M+ last yr alone.   There looks to be plenty of money to go around.

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Jhawk

Jhawk 1,075

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, d2o said:

Out of curiosity who on POR is missing out due to CJ being "overpaid"?   Meyers Leonard, Moe Harkless, and Evan Turner made a combined 40M+ last yr alone.   There looks to be plenty of money to go around.

You can't think of it as opportunity cost in my opinion.  Just what someone is worth.  JJ Reddick got $23M one year.  Everyone knew he wasn't worth that.  Kyle Lowry is getting $33M.  He isn't worth that.  Those guys got those contracts for various reasons (cap reasons, loyalty reasons, only guy on the team that a brand/fanbsae could even be built around) but none of them were because their stats justify the number.  Saying a player isn't overpaid just because there was no one else to get or because the team had the money is like a wife saying "I had to buy it because it was on sale" even though she already has 5 purses and only uses one of them.

I'm just saying that if you level everything out based on stats then there are many players worth their max, a big group of guys being overpaid, and a TON of guys being underpaid relative to the guys being overpaid.  That's taking the market conditions (who is out there, how much money is available, negotiating power) out of the equation.

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d2o

d2o 1,602

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

You can't think of it as opportunity cost in my opinion.  Just what someone is worth.  JJ Reddick got $23M one year.  Everyone knew he wasn't worth that.  Kyle Lowry is getting $33M.  He isn't worth that.  Those guys got those contracts for various reasons (cap reasons, loyalty reasons, only guy on the team that a brand/fanbsae could even be built around) but none of them were because their stats justify the number.  Saying a player isn't overpaid just because there was no one else to get or because the team had the money is like a wife saying "I had to buy it because it was on sale" even though she already has 5 purses and only uses one of them.

I'm just saying that if you level everything out based on stats then there are many players worth their max, a big group of guys being overpaid, and a TON of guys being underpaid relative to the guys being overpaid.  That's taking the market conditions (who is out there, how much money is available, negotiating power) out of the equation.

The real problem is the max contract itself.   It forces superstars to be "underpaid" and the team has to meet the salary floor.   If there was no max salary LBJ would make 100M/yr probably.    That would really make the spread that you are pointing out FAR larger though.    

Wait you think there are a "a ton" of guys being underpaid???   Whoa, yeah I disagree with that.

 

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aggie08

aggie08 21,505

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Posted

Really good article from Lowe re: Durant's never-quite-comfortable fit with the Warriors and the Russell trade:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27100698/why-collapse-warriors-feels-abrupt

He comes to about the same conclusion as most of us: Russell's not a great fit, and it's incredibly risky...but it was probably the best option for them to acquire a valuable asset.  Iggy doesn't have much value soaking up regular season minutes on a team that, unless Klay comes back guns blazing and they hit a home run with their exceptions, isn't likely to really contend for a title. Lowe theorizes that a deal involving Iggy and 2 firsts (what they ultimately lost to acquire Russell) would have only netted them someone else's nice-but-we-wouldn't-mind-if-someone-else-paid-his-salary player (i.e. someone like Capela, DeRozan, Gallinari, Lowry. Meh.).  Russell--a 23 year old on a 4-year deal who can shoot, pass, and dribble--will have significantly more valuable on the trade block if (when) it's time to part ways.  I tend to agree that Minnesota is the most likely destination, and maybe this deal went down with a wink and a nod in that direction.  They should also have about a $17M trade exception from the Iggy deal.

I like the deal a lot more with them finding a way to keep Looney.

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