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2019 NBA Offseason Thread -- Trades, Free Agents, Firings, Retirements, Etc

Patrick Bateman

By Patrick Bateman
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We should all teach our children the following very valuable lessons: 1. when you are unhappy or want to be somewhere else, you should fake the severity of an injury and then go through 11 doctor

michaelpshayes
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No, we want them to be consistent and not be hypocrites. I would prefer that they shut up and dribble, shoot, pitch, hit, tackle or kick but if you are going to be “woke”, don’t stop being woke only

Etexhorn13

Etexhorn13 3052

Posted
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2 hours ago, Message Board User said:

Maybe now Westbrook will develop a high BB IQ and learn to play off the ball and...………...🤣🤣🤣🤣
 

Sorry, couldn't get through it.

For a second I read this as “high BBQ IQ” and i actually agreed with you. 

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goatsaag

goatsaag 279

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Remember when everyone said Chris Paul was a terrible acquisition and would never work next to Harden? And then the Rockets became the only team to legitimately challenge with Warriors with KD?

Paul isn't completely washed up like people want to to pretend, but Westbrook is a better player and will very likely improve the Rockets (who already should have been the favorite to have the best record in the league).

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C-Man

C-Man 27230

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Remember when everyone said Chris Paul was a terrible acquisition and would never work next to Harden? And then the Rockets became the only team to legitimately challenge with Warriors with KD?


I take issue with this. The Spurs were going to at least test GS — if not beat them outright — before Zaza stepped under Kawhi on a jumper in 2017.
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goatsaag

goatsaag 279

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6 minutes ago, C-Man said:

I take issue with this. The Spurs were going to at least test GS — if not beat them outright — before Zaza stepped under Kawhi on a jumper in 2017.

 

I mean, maybe? Definitely was true for 30 minutes of one game but unfortunately nothing to indicate whether that was actually sustainable over a series.

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Skipper

Skipper 6136

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I don't think it's going to work for them but will definitely be interesting.   And obviously a good move by the Rockets short term.  There was close to zero chance they could win the West next year as constructed (and their 2 best players hating each other).  There is certainly a chance they figure out a way to maximize their styles and fit to make a run.  I don't see it happening but certainly better title shot now than before.

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aggie08

aggie08 21505

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20 minutes ago, goatsaag said:

Remember when everyone said Chris Paul was a terrible acquisition and would never work next to Harden? And then the Rockets became the only team to legitimately challenge with Warriors with KD?

Paul isn't completely washed up like people want to to pretend, but Westbrook is a better player and will very likely improve the Rockets (who already should have been the favorite to have the best record in the league).

So, if I'm reading this correctly, the reason for your optimism is that some people doubted Paul's fit--an incredibly high IQ player, excellent passer, lights out shooter, and pesky defender--and it almost worked...so now people are going to proven wrong again? Well, good luck with that. I'd prefer to hear why you think they should have the best record in the league from an actual basketball perspective.

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youdunnf'dup

youdunnf'dup 2147

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1 hour ago, HtownHorn said:

I have no idea, but everyone said that Harden and Paul wouldn't work at all, and they lead the league in wins the 1st year, and probably would have won a title if Paul doesn't get hurt. I think Westbrook is over-rated, but is a better player than Paul right now. The whole idea is to maximize the window with Harden in his prime. 

Fair enough. It’ll be interesting to see what Russ looks like with a drastically lower usage rate. Shot 65% from the FT line, 29% from 3. It’s just a weird fit to me. 

I also feel like if you guys could’ve just gotten along, and ran it back next year with the exact same squad, you were probably at worst a 3 seed. Probably more like a 2 seed 

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14725

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13 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Fair enough. It’ll be interesting to see what Russ looks like with a drastically lower usage rate. Shot 65% from the FT line, 29% from 3. It’s just a weird fit to me. 

I also feel like if you guys could’ve just gotten along, and ran it back next year with the exact same squad, you were probably at worst a 3 seed. Probably more like a 2 seed 

Not with Paul missing his mandatory 20+ games.

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 13045

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19 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Fair enough. It’ll be interesting to see what Russ looks like with a drastically lower usage rate. Shot 65% from the FT line, 29% from 3. It’s just a weird fit to me. 

I also feel like if you guys could’ve just gotten along, and ran it back next year with the exact same squad, you were probably at worst a 3 seed. Probably more like a 2 seed 

It’s an awful fit. They are completely non complementary players. That said RW and Harden are incredible and maybe taking turns is enough. At some point I just think RW is going to have to do more off ball than stand with his hands on his knees. 

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aggie08

aggie08 21505

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Posted (edited)

Actually, I don't hate the move from a basketball standpoint. Fuck it, go all in on the offense they were running early this season with CP3 out. 48 minutes of Russ and/or Harden playing iso with a PnR center and two shooters, keeping each other fresh. When they're both on the floor, give it to the guy with the worse defender on him for the possession. Pretty much every team in the league except LAC will have trouble matching up on both of them.

I think a healthy CP3 would make them better than Russ (especially for playoff baseball), but does a healthy CP3 even exist anymore? 

Don't see how this makes them a true title contender though, and Morey likes to make it known that that's all he cares about.

Edited by aggie08
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C-Man

C-Man 27230

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1 hour ago, goatsaag said:

I mean, maybe? Definitely was true for 30 minutes of one game but unfortunately nothing to indicate whether that was actually sustainable over a series.

Kawhi was one of the 3-4 best players in the game that year, already had a Finals MVP under his belt and got another one this year. I'd say the Spurs were going to at a minimum test GS that year. I think we might've beaten them, maybe not sure as I was with Colt vs Bama in '10, but not too far off that.

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SilasCoade

SilasCoade 2622

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8 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Kawhi was one of the 3-4 best players in the game that year, already had a Finals MVP under his belt and got another one this year. I'd say the Spurs were going to at a minimum test GS that year. I think we might've beaten them, maybe not sure as I was with Colt vs Bama in '10, but not too far off that.

negworthy

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HookEm

HookEm 2467

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Call me crazy, but in some ways I like this OKC team better THIS YEAR, not even counting all the draft picks.

Even with his slip in recent years I'm not sure that Chris Paul is that inferior to Westbrook. Paul is much more efficient. He is a MUCH better free throw shooter, which translates into wins during close games. He will also make others around him better (at least until they start to hate him by the end of year 2). He will also not steal rebounds from his bigs which will keep them more engaged. Not to mention the extra two turnovers a game from Westbrook.

Then you add in Gallinari who is also efficient and can stretch the floor. Paul George is definitely better than Gallo, but Gallo still put up 20 and 6 with very few TOs and a higher TS% than PG13. He should play perfectly with Chris Paul and Adams.

Add in SGA and you have a young athletic long defender at the 1/2 who should improve in year 2. He is another efficient player, especially for his age.

They still have Adams, one of the 10 best centers in the game. People are going to be surprised at his improvement playing with CP3.

Overall I think they will be much more efficient. Fewer TOs. Better free throws. Better closeout of close games. Paul will bring even more toughness to an already tough squad. I wouldn't be surprised if they win some games and surprise people.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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MNLonghornFUKM

MNLonghornFUKM 8817

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Spurs fans (who have already experienced more success in the past 20 years than 93.8% of all professional teams experience in 100 years) can't let go of the stupid Zaza play.

Share the wealth you selfish fucks. Everytime I read about that play that happened 3 years ago, I smile more that Kawhi left your asses.

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C-Man

C-Man 27230

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20 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Spurs fans (who have already experienced more success in the past 20 years than 93.8% of all professional teams experience in 100 years) can't let go of the stupid Zaza play.

Share the wealth you selfish fucks. Everytime I read about that play that happened 3 years ago, I smile more that Kawhi left your asses.

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goatsaag

goatsaag 279

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1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

So, if I'm reading this correctly, the reason for your optimism is that some people doubted Paul's fit--an incredibly high IQ player, excellent passer, lights out shooter, and pesky defender--and it almost worked...so now people are going to proven wrong again? Well, good luck with that. I'd prefer to hear why you think they should have the best record in the league from an actual basketball perspective.

Chris Paul on the Rockets did work, so we can get rid of the almost. I'm optimistic because Westbrook is a better basketball player than Paul. That isn't arguable. His fit is less certain because it hasn't been proven yet, but the last time people questioned Harden's ability to play alongside another ball dominant player, they were very very wrong.

They would have had the best record in the league with Paul instead of Westbrook. Westbrook is a better player, so they should be a better team. This is based on their 65 wins two years ago, 42-15 record once they got their shit together this last year after their 11-14 start, and them being the only elite team with roster continuity (which obviously has changed now). Harden not really being interested in participating in the "load management" also is a bonus for the regular season record.

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3917

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21 minutes ago, goatsaag said:

Chris Paul on the Rockets did work, so we can get rid of the almost. I'm optimistic because Westbrook is a better basketball player than Paul. That isn't arguable. His fit is less certain because it hasn't been proven yet, but the last time people questioned Harden's ability to play alongside another ball dominant player, they were very very wrong.

They would have had the best record in the league with Paul instead of Westbrook. Westbrook is a better player, so they should be a better team. This is based on their 65 wins two years ago, 42-15 record once they got their shit together this last year after their 11-14 start, and them being the only elite team with roster continuity (which obviously has changed now). Harden not really being interested in participating in the "load management" also is a bonus for the regular season record.

Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% 3PAr FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG%   OWS DWS WS WS/48   OBPM DBPM BPM VORP
1 Chris Paul 2018-19 33 58 1857 19.7 .560 .493 .282 2.1 13.9 7.9 39.3 3.0 0.8 15.8 22.5   4.4 2.2 6.6 .172   2.9 0.2 3.0 2.4
2 Russell Westbrook 2018-19 30 73 2630 21.1 .501 .279 .306 4.1 28.3 15.8 46.5 2.5 1.1 16.3 30.9   1.8 5.0 6.8 .124   2.5 3.9 6.5

5.6

 

Playoffs:

Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% 3PAr FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG%   OWS DWS WS WS/48   OBPM DBPM BPM VORP
1 Chris Paul 2018-19 33 11 397 17.6 .557 .426 .304 4.1 15.4 9.9 25.1 3.0 1.6 18.1 22.7   0.5 0.6 1.1 .132   1.5 2.8 4.2 0.6
2 Russell Westbrook 2018-19 30 5 197 16.0 .466 .306 .234 3.8 20.7 12.1 46.0 1.2 1.3 15.8 31.5   -0.1 0.2 0.1 .026   -0.3 2.2 1.9 0.2

 

Chris Paul vs Russ Westbrook in the year the Rockets made noise:

Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% 3PAr FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG%   OWS DWS WS WS/48   OBPM DBPM BPM VORP
1 Chris Paul 2017-18 32 58 1847 24.4 .604 .475 .277 2.3 16.7 9.5 40.9 2.6 0.6 12.5 24.5   7.5 2.7 10.2 .265   6.2 0.9 7.1 4.2
2 Russell Westbrook 2018-19 30 73 2630 21.1 .501 .279 .306 4.1 28.3 15.8 46.5 2.5 1.1 16.3 30.9   1.8 5.0 6.8 .124   2.5 3.9 6.5 5.6

Playoffs:

Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% 3PAr FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG%   OWS DWS WS WS/48   OBPM DBPM BPM VORP
1 Chris Paul 2017-18 32 15 517 22.8 .565 .385 .206 1.9 17.4 9.5 30.8 2.9 0.7 9.1 26.7   1.4 0.7 2.1 .193   4.7 1.9 6.6 1.1
2 Russell Westbrook 2018-19 30 5 197 16.0 .466 .306 .234 3.8 20.7 12.1 46.0 1.2 1.3 15.8 31.5   -0.1 0.2 0.1 .026   -0.3 2.2 1.9 0.2

 

So.... you sure about that?  Keep in mind, Westbrook is in a 4 year declination spiral.  Now maybe a new system does wonders for him and his game.  Maybe he sees the light playing next to a better player (it did help his game with KD).  Maybe he has an even bigger chip on his shoulder than past years.  Maybe OKC was getting stale and getting to a new location revives his jump shut.... but that's a lot of maybes.  Russ and CP3 held about the same value last year, Paul did some things better, Westbrook did some things better.  But the year Houston fans want to call a "success", whereby they choked away game 7, Paul was a far superior player to Westbrook and certainly in the playoffs where Russ has turned into an atrocious player post KD.

 

Edited by Patrick Bateman
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Dutchrudder

Dutchrudder 11141

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ughhh, I hate that trade for so many reasons, Russ sucks at 3s, has no midrange game, plays defense sporadically, hunts rebounds over staying with his man, cares more about stats than wins, has to have the ball to be effective, has no gravity without the ball... and on and on. The only positive I can think of is our team rebounding last year was awful, so maybe Russ will help with that, but god damn I don't know what they are gonna do with him. If he is a true point guard, surrounded by the best shooting team he has had in years, maybe he can play a lot better as a distributor? Maybe?  It's gonna be weird. 

Edited by Dutchrudder
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C-Man

C-Man 27230

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So this is a big downgrade for Paul. The good news is, he can still play—as pointed out by Kevin O’Connor of The Ringer, Paul’s box score production without James Harden on the floor last season was excellent, and the Rockets were almost six points better by net rating with Paul on the floor than off. 

https://deadspin.com/so-yeah-the-rockets-really-did-not-want-chris-paul-an-1836298159

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hundredTT

hundredTT 578

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My end of free agent thoughts. Lakers win it all.
 

Lebron will come back recharged. Davis has everything to prove.  Kuzma  will improve. Many people discounting Boogie, but I think he will have a huge bounce back year, healthy and ready to prove he's a max player.  Green is a crazy good piece to have as a 4th or 5th best player. Then still have Rondo, A Bradley, Pope, Cooke...Dudley - ok not Dudley. But shit that roster is crazy good. Clippers obviously are crazy good. But give me the Lakers. Kawhi is the best in the NBA, but let's see how he handles the thrown. Plus not to take away, but let's face it his shine was magnified greatly due to Golden State basically falling apart.  PG13 is a choker and I just feel he maxed out last year, could see some injuries for him. Then the other Clippers played over their heads, won't happen with the target on their heads now. M. Harrell will be brought back to reality and Lou will finally decline,  32, and players will be on notice. I won't mind eating crow, and I'm a huge Lakers hater, just don't see those assholes not holding up the title next year. 

Edited by hundredTT
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Kermit

Kermit 3156

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6 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Spurs fans (who have already experienced more success in the past 20 years than 93.8% of all professional teams experience in 100 years) can't let go of the stupid Zaza play.

Share the wealth you selfish fucks. Everytime I read about that play that happened 3 years ago, I smile more that Kawhi left your asses.

You’re right. It could be worse. Our team’s fate could be tied to Andrew Wiggins. Thanks for the perspective. 

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Trey3216

Trey3216 15347

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6 hours ago, goatsaag said:

Chris Paul on the Rockets did work, so we can get rid of the almost. I'm optimistic because Westbrook is a better basketball player than Paul. That isn't arguable. His fit is less certain because it hasn't been proven yet, but the last time people questioned Harden's ability to play alongside another ball dominant player, they were very very wrong.

They would have had the best record in the league with Paul instead of Westbrook. Westbrook is a better player, so they should be a better team. This is based on their 65 wins two years ago, 42-15 record once they got their shit together this last year after their 11-14 start, and them being the only elite team with roster continuity (which obviously has changed now). Harden not really being interested in participating in the "load management" also is a bonus for the regular season record.

Westbrook is a far better athlete than Chris Paul, but he is in no shape or form a better basketball player.  

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