2019 NBA Offseason Thread -- Trades, Free Agents, Firings, Retirements, Etc

[Chad 1728]

I'm just curious to see how Harden/Russ on the same team will play out over the course of the season and apparently the beef between Harden/CP3 was true because he gone. You have an offense designed around iso ball with Harden and now you throw a ball hogging, volume shooting stat padder into the mix who wants the ball in his hands all the time. what could possibly go wrong?

[HookEm 2468]

One consideration is that D'Antoni is the best coach Westbrook has ever played for. Also Harden and Westbrook are friends, so there should be some grace between them if things don't click immediately.

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[Aqua Buddha 14624]

Wait until Westbrook starts grabbing rebounds and takes the ball up the floor and shoots without even looking at Harden.

Wait until the Rockets are down by 2 in the last seconds of a game and Harden doesn't touch the ball while Westbrook takes an off balance three.

[d2o 1602]

44 minutes ago, HookEm said:

One consideration is that D'Antoni is the best coach Westbrook has ever played for. Also Harden and Westbrook are friends, so there should be some grace between them if things don't click immediately.

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That's a pretty low bar

[Chad 1728]

1 hour ago, HookEm said:

One consideration is that D'Antoni is the best coach Westbrook has ever played for. Also Harden and Westbrook are friends, so there should be some grace between them if things don't click immediately.

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D'Antoni has never coached a team to the NBA finals and has coached some downright atrocious teams in LA/NY, calling him the best coach Russ has ever played for isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8822]

2 hours ago, Kermit said:

You’re right. It could be worse. Our team’s fate could be tied to Andrew Wiggins. Thanks for the perspective. 

 

 

 

Glad i can give you some closure from the Zaza play

[Kermit 3159]

2 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

 

 

 

Glad i can give you some closure from the Zaza play

Bro, that wound is as wide as Hope Solo’s pussy. It’s going to take a while to fill it.

[Machinator 32099]

 

['stache 21892]

32 minutes ago, Machinator said:

 

So OKC? I think they're the only team allowed to draft for the next decade or so.

[Aqua Buddha 14624]

So, as for the Rockets, in the 22/23 season:

James Harden -- 33 years old -- $47M

Russell Westbrook -- 34 years old -- $47M

Good hell.

[conVINCEd 21469]

1 hour ago, Machinator said:

 

Most contenders have no draft picks to give for the next 6 years.

[APMP 688]

So, as for the Rockets, in the 22/23 season:
James Harden -- 33 years old -- $47M
Russell Westbrook -- 34 years old -- $47M
Good hell.

Worth it IMO if they win a title before then. Easier said than done, I know, but I like the dice roll. Morey didn't give up when the Warriors made their super team. And he's not when the LA super teams are forming. I think in his mind, the Rockets were prevented from competing in the NBA finals by injuries in 2009 and again in 2018. The idea of not trying to win/tanking is probably nonsensical too him.

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[Burt Macklin 19053]

30 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

So, as for the Rockets, in the 22/23 season:

James Harden -- 33 years old -- $47M

Russell Westbrook -- 34 years old -- $47M

Good hell.

 

3 minutes ago, APMP said:

Worth it IMO if they win a title before then. Easier said than done, I know, but I like the dice roll. Morey didn't give up when the Warriors made their super team. And he's not when the LA super teams are forming. I think in his mind, the Rockets were prevented from competing in the NBA finals by injuries in 2009 and again in 2018. The idea of not trying to win/tanking is probably nonsensical too him.

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Yeah. I think the CP3 gamble was worth it and they're already all in, so this one makes sense too. It was so close to working  with CP3 and they had know way of knowing at the time how long KD would stay with GSW, so trying to wait out that dynasty didn't make sense. 

And from Morey's perspective he don't give a shit about the risk. Whether or not he wins a title, he'll still be able to move on to greener pastures before those salaries hit and they don't have their picks. The fans and the owner are the ones who will have to pay if the gamble doesn't work out.

[Rockethorn1978 6108]

57 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

So, as for the Rockets, in the 22/23 season:

James Harden -- 33 years old -- $47M

Russell Westbrook -- 34 years old -- $47M

Good hell.

I would shocked if they both are playing for the Rockets by 2022. It’s like the summer of player movement and demanded trades we just had is gone forever and will never happen again and the rockets are stuck with bad contracts lol. Rockets could easily flip both guys for a shit ton of draft picks if they ever decided to blow it up and start over.

[Machinator 32099]

 

[Rockethorn1978 6108]

Yayy I guess? Hope he can make it through a full season.

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

6 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Can't wait for when the Rockets fans start seeing Westbrook's shot selection.  When he has a good shot, he's actually not terrible but he takes some dreadful shots.

In fact, throughout his entire career Westbrook has only shot above or at league average from the field twice (2015-16, 2011-12) and has never shot above league or at league average from three.

[Dutchrudder 11154]

6 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Wait until Westbrook starts grabbing rebounds and takes the ball up the floor and shoots without even looking at Harden.

Wait until the Rockets are down by 2 in the last seconds of a game and Harden doesn't touch the ball while Westbrook takes an off balance three.

Dude, we know... we are all aware of his shortcomings, and why he never should have been the MVP over Harden in 2017. He's horribly inefficient and cares more about personal stats than wins. He'll chuck 5 bricks in the last 2 minutes, make his 6th and strut around like he's the clutchest player in history. He's all hat and no cattle, all foam no beer, sizzle without steak, all bark no bite, etc etc...  The only hope is Harden is OK with playing off-ball (lol), and Westbrook gets to kick out and pass to actual shooters that can score, and score at a better rate than the points our defense gives up. WB+Harden might be the worst starting defensive backcourt in the league. 

[Kermit 3159]

Not the onion.

https://balldurham.com/2019/07/12/duke-basketball-grayson-allen-victim/

['stache 21892]

17 minutes ago, Kermit said:

Not the onion.

https://balldurham.com/2019/07/12/duke-basketball-grayson-allen-victim/

"He’s a blue-collar overachiever"

If I didn't already know who he was, I could tell you his skin color, and could probably also predict where he went to school.

[Sbbruin 21898]

12 hours ago, hundredTT said:

My end of free agent thoughts. Lakers win it all.
 

Lebron will come back recharged. Davis has everything to prove.  Kuzma  will improve. Many people discounting Boogie, but I think he will have a huge bounce back year, healthy and ready to prove he's a max player.  Green is a crazy good piece to have as a 4th or 5th best player. Then still have Rondo, A Bradley, Pope, Cooke...Dudley - ok not Dudley. But shit that roster is crazy good. Clippers obviously are crazy good. But give me the Lakers. Kawhi is the best in the NBA, but let's see how he handles the thrown. Plus not to take away, but let's face it his shine was magnified greatly due to Golden State basically falling apart.  PG13 is a choker and I just feel he maxed out last year, could see some injuries for him. Then the other Clippers played over their heads, won't happen with the target on their heads now. M. Harrell will be brought back to reality and Lou will finally decline,  32, and players will be on notice. I won't mind eating crow, and I'm a huge Lakers hater, just don't see those assholes not holding up the title next year. 

[Radical Larry 28664]

 

[HtownHorn 14786]

Seattle fan is my favorite.

[52-80 19262]

Magician Sam Presti continuing to rape his counterparts at the negotiation table is hilarious to me

[Pam Cummings 9684]

16 hours ago, Kermit said:

Not the onion.

https://balldurham.com/2019/07/12/duke-basketball-grayson-allen-victim/

What in the actual fuck is that bullshit?

[d2o 1602]

17 hours ago, Kermit said:

Not the onion.

https://balldurham.com/2019/07/12/duke-basketball-grayson-allen-victim/

Always remember fan is short for fanatic

[aggie08 21554]

4 hours ago, 52-80 said:

Magician Sam Presti continuing to rape his counterparts at the negotiation table is hilarious to me

CP3 has the 2nd worst contract in basketball. It's going to take at least one of those first round picks--probably more--to move him. So Presti essentially traded their still in his prime franchise cornerstone for, let's say, the 23rd pick some year.

Don't get me wrong: he had to do it to get out from their salary cap mess on a team that isn't going to seriously compete for a decade, and getting rid of Russ's deal without attaching any picks to it is a win in itself. But calling it a "raping" is laughable.

[Sbbruin 21898]

9 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

CP3 has the 2nd worst contract in basketball. It's going to take at least one of those first round picks--probably more--to move him. So Presti essentially traded their still in his prime franchise cornerstone for, let's say, the 23rd pick some year.

Don't get me wrong: he had to do it to get out from their salary cap mess on a team that isn't going to seriously compete for a decade, and getting rid of Russ's deal without attaching any picks to it is a win in itself. But calling it a "raping" is laughable.

Yeah, not sure I would categorize trading Russ for nothing is a raping.

[d2o 1602]

21 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

CP3 has the 2nd worst contract in basketball. It's going to take at least one of those first round picks--probably more--to move him. So Presti essentially traded their still in his prime franchise cornerstone for, let's say, the 23rd pick some year.

Don't get me wrong: he had to do it to get out from their salary cap mess on a team that isn't going to seriously compete for a decade, and getting rid of Russ's deal without attaching any picks to it is a win in itself. But calling it a "raping" is laughable.

Right, its really only 2 picks anyway.   The picks swaps mean nothing when OKC will have a worse record.   That's more PR spin to try and make it sound like they got more.

I'm still not 100% convinced he will have to attach picks to get out of CP3-6wks contract but it will  be a challenge to move for sure

[Aqua Buddha 14624]

OKC has 14 picks or something.  If they give away two of those to unload the Westbrook contract, they still have 12 more so that's a win.

[d2o 1602]

1 minute ago, Aqua Buddha said:

OKC has 14 picks or something.  If they give away two of those to unload the Westbrook contract, they still have 12 more so that's a win.

Yes, but if he gives up 2 picks when he really only got two picks to trade Russ then he got nothing for Russ.

[ChickenSandwich 9853]

44 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

CP3 has the 2nd worst contract in basketball. It's going to take at least one of those first round picks--probably more--to move him. So Presti essentially traded their still in his prime franchise cornerstone for, let's say, the 23rd pick some year.

Don't get me wrong: he had to do it to get out from their salary cap mess on a team that isn't going to seriously compete for a decade, and getting rid of Russ's deal without attaching any picks to it is a win in itself. But calling it a "raping" is laughable.

The Pelicans haul from the Lakers for their franchise player Davis was not consensual.  This was cutting your franchise player for nothing. No young talent, no usable picks in the next 3 years and you still pay a max salary to a worse player. 

No blame because his hand was forced, but they got nothing for their best player. 

[Murfdogg21 4431]

The old saying was whoever ended up with the best player won the trade. I guess the Rockets won?

[Burt Macklin 19053]

2 hours ago, aggie08 said:

CP3 has the 2nd worst contract in basketball. It's going to take at least one of those first round picks--probably more--to move him. So Presti essentially traded their still in his prime franchise cornerstone for, let's say, the 23rd pick some year.

Don't get me wrong: he had to do it to get out from their salary cap mess on a team that isn't going to seriously compete for a decade, and getting rid of Russ's deal without attaching any picks to it is a win in itself. But calling it a "raping" is laughable.

Idk. It seems like Miami May be willing to take him for salary matching but who knows. I doubt they have to give up two picks to trade him to MIA.

[Aqua Buddha 14624]

1 hour ago, d2o said:

Yes, but if he gives up 2 picks when he really only got two picks to trade Russ then he got nothing for Russ.

Yeah, but in the end he gets out of Russ's contract and that is the win in itself.

[aggie08 21554]

14 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Idk. It seems like Miami May be willing to take him for salary matching but who knows. I doubt they have to give up two picks to trade him to MIA.

I'm sure that they can pass CP3 around the league bad money for bad money, but if OKC wants to really cut costs (and I'm guessing they do), they'll have to throw in a pick it two to only get back expiring, pain-free contracts. Especially if they want, you know, an actual decent basketball player in return.

[Rockethorn1978 6108]

If the rockets win a title with Russ they win.

if okc can turn 500 draft picks into something and win a title they win.

getting draft picks for two stars isn’t “raping” anyone or even a “win”. You win the trade by winning on the court.

[aggie08 21554]

5 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

If the rockets win a title with Russ they win.

if okc can turn 500 draft picks into something and win a title they win.

getting draft picks for two stars isn’t “raping” anyone or even a “win”. You win the trade by winning on the court.

Presti absolutely raped LAC. He got back the biggest trade haul in league history--pretty much the maximum allowable package--for a guy who is not a top 5 player and just asked out anyway. But it was a unique situation in which the Clippers were essentially trading for two superstars with the threat of Kawhi going across the hall to the Lakers hanging over their head. Presti did extremely well to take advantage of the circumstances, but the Clippers basically approached him with their wallets open.

The Russ trade is basically just an exchange of bloated contracts, and OKC didn't get back much of significance.

[Burt Macklin 19053]

7 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

I'm sure that they can pass CP3 around the league bad money for bad money, but if OKC wants to really cut costs (and I'm guessing they do), they'll have to throw in a pick it two to only get back expiring, pain-free contracts. Especially if they want, you know, an actual decent basketball player in return.

They can save about 8 million just by trading him to MIA plus those contracts will come off the book way sooner. Draguc is a 19 mil expiring, so they can unload half CP3’s salary by next year alone.

[Rockethorn1978 6108]

5 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Presti absolutely raped LAC. He got back the biggest trade haul in league history--pretty much the maximum allowable package--for a guy who is not a top 5 player and just asked out anyway. But it was a unique situation in which the Clippers were essentially trading for two superstars with the threat of Kawhi going across the hall to the Lakers hanging over their head. Presti did extremely well to take advantage of the circumstances, but the Clippers basically approached him with their wallets open.

The Russ trade is basically just an exchange of bloated contracts, and OKC didn't get back much of significance.

Getting a lot of picks and drafting well and winning games and a title is the bar. Collecting a ton of picks mean jack shit if you don’t win anything.

[aggie08 21554]

On a related side note, if you like to point and laugh at CP3 as much as I do, this has been a great couple of months. First, Steph punks him in Houston in Game 6 after CP3 wouldn't let him get shots up on the court the night before (also after a year of "we win the WCF if Paul doesn't get hurt" bullshit from that locker room). Then, he has to go through the charade of pretending that he and Harden don't have real beef for nothing, as it turns out. Shipped off to Oklahoma, where I'm sure that he wants no part of trying to lead a lottery team, even if they have some nice pieces. Kendrick Perkins, an incredibly popular guy around the league, just called him out publicly. Now, there's going to be national debate about what a poison pill his contract is and who would be desperate enough to take it. Fun times.

[NowThis 931]

i have no prob with Paul and will still be a fan .  I thought he was overhyped in the LAC years and didn't like his pushoff on Duncan to win that series, but overall he had a very good run in Houston. That 65 win team was something special and beautiful basketball, just blowing out teams regularly was very welcome. Good luck CP3, hope he ends up with Miami where he'll be a great complement to Butler. 

[aggie08 21554]

16 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

On a related side note, if you like to point and laugh at CP3 as much as I do, this has been a great couple of months. First, Steph punks him in Houston in Game 6 after CP3 wouldn't let him get shots up on the court the night before (also after a year of "we win the WCF if Paul doesn't get hurt" bullshit from that locker room). Then, he has to go through the charade of pretending that he and Harden don't have real beef for nothing, as it turns out. Shipped off to Oklahoma, where I'm sure that he wants no part of trying to lead a lottery team, even if they have some nice pieces. Kendrick Perkins, an incredibly popular guy around the league, just called him out publicly. Now, there's going to be national debate about what a poison pill his contract is and who would be desperate enough to take it. Fun times.

Oh, and the Clippers off-court accomplishment this offseason bests anything that CP did on the court in his time there.

[HtownHorn 14786]

3 hours ago, d2o said:

Right, its really only 2 picks anyway.   The picks swaps mean nothing when OKC will have a worse record.   That's more PR spin to try and make it sound like they got more.

I'm still not 100% convinced he will have to attach picks to get out of CP3-6wks contract but it will  be a challenge to move for sure

The other 2 picks are protected as well as the 2nd swap. There is a chance none of the picks are conveyed to the Thunder.

[d2o 1602]

 

 

11 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

The other 2 picks are protected as well as the 2nd swap. There is a chance none of the picks are conveyed to the Thunder.

They are top 4 protected if I am not mistaken.   There is pretty much no chance HOU has a record bad enough to get a top 4 pick in that time.    Additionally, when they are protected the protections de-escalate the next yr.    They will get two picks somewhere along the line.  

[Burt Macklin 19053]

18 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

The other 2 picks are protected as well as the 2nd swap. There is a chance none of the picks are conveyed to the Thunder.

Lulz. Do you honestly think they just revert back to HOU if they’re top 4 those years? You keep saying this nonsense. That’s never how pick protections work.

At best, they would drop to like 2 seconds the next year, but likely just revert to unprotected the next year.

[HtownHorn 14786]

11 minutes ago, d2o said:

 

 

They are top 4 protected if I am not mistaken.   There is pretty much no chance HOU has a record bad enough to get a top 4 pick in that time.    Additionally, when they are protected the protections de-escalate the next yr.    They will get two picks somewhere along the line.  

Nope, there is no language in the deal that specifies the de-escalation. The picks are in 2024 and 2026, Harden and Westbrook will both be FA's in 2023, with the chance that neither are with the Rockets when those picks are conveyed. Like I said, there is a very real chance the Thunder don't receive a single pick in this deal.

 

Here's the deal

Quote

The Rockets will send guard Chris Paul, two protected first-round picks (2024 and 2026, both protected Nos. 1-4) and two pick swaps (2021 and 2025) to the Thunder, league sources told ESPN.

Here's the deal the Lakers made for Davis as it pertains to picks.

Quote

Multiple reports added that the Pelicans' total haul of draft picks includes: this year's No. 4 overall selection, a top-eight protected pick in 2021 (which becomes unprotected in 2022 if it does not convey), the right to swap first-round picks with the Lakers in 2023, and an unprotected 2024 first-round pick that New Orleans can defer to 2025.

 

Edited July 13, 2019 by HtownHorn

[aggie08 21554]

7 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Like I said, there is a very real chance the Thunder don't receive a single pick in this deal.

Dude. That's not how any of this works.

[d2o 1602]

15 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Nope, there is no language in the deal that specifies the de-escalation. The picks are in 2024 and 2026, Harden and Westbrook will both be FA's in 2023, with the chance that neither are with the Rockets when those picks are conveyed. Like I said, there is a very real chance the Thunder don't receive a single pick in this deal.

 

Here's the deal

Here's the deal the Lakers made for Davis as it pertains to picks.

 

Good grief

 

[HtownHorn 14786]

Please point to what years the Rockets give up their #1 to the Thunder if they keep their picks in 2024 and 2026. It shouldn't be hard, I was able to google search in 5 seconds to find the language in the Davis deal.