2019 NBA Offseason Thread -- Trades, Free Agents, Firings, Retirements, Etc

[d2o 1602]

9 hours ago, kopp0e said:

What Dray helped to bring in, Dray also pushed away...

 

6pt Moses is really trying to make his career as an analyst off this KD thing

[MrBig 5497]

17 hours ago, kopp0e said:

The dynasty that ended before it ever began..?

They had 2 basketballs in the pic because Harden & Russ couldn’t agree on who would hog the ball.

[Machinator 32099]

 

Edited July 22, 2019 by Machinator

[d2o 1602]

1 hour ago, Machinator said:

 

hahahahahhaha, yeah offer him 111M more dollars and see how much he "pauses".   GTFOH.

[Patrick Bateman 3939]

Tim Duncan has joined the Spurs as an assistant coach.

 

Edited July 22, 2019 by Patrick Bateman

[Beau Vine 54617]

On 7/19/2019 at 8:06 AM, d2o said:

Fans Okies fucking suck

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/oklahoma-city-thunder-death-threats-russell-westbrook-chris-paul-paul-george-trades-free-agency-235638329.html

 

fify

[Patrick Bateman 3939]

Hmmm.... inference is Kawhi's camp was acting like they were get cruited' in the SEC.  Did he get a gold Trans-Am?

 

Edited July 24, 2019 by Patrick Bateman

[MrBig 5497]

26 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Hmmm.... inference is Kawhi's camp was acting like they were get cruited' in the SEC.  Did he get a gold Trans-Am?

 

Surprised Uncle Dennis doesn’t have his own thread here. Spurs fans have known what a shitbag he is for a few years now.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8908]

Lolol.


Well are you going to fine one of the richest guys on earth?


Or take away the next 3 clippers first round picks that they own? Which is 2112-2114

[Underdog 28855]

Void deal, watch all hell break loose, make KL sit out for year unpaid. 

[Dutchrudder 11156]

Does Uncle Dennis actually have the license needed to represent an NBA player?  

[Mitch Cumsteen 18621]

On 6/28/2019 at 9:49 PM, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I'm sure kawhi's camp will handle his free agency with the same professionalism and class that they showed when they dealt with the spurs. 

While I'm sure all of this will amount to a gigantic pile of nothing.... nobody likes to say "I told you so" more than I do.

[d2o 1602]

13 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

Does Uncle Dennis actually have the license needed to represent an NBA player?  

Cant imagine that he does.   That's in part the reason Silver worded his statement the way he did.

[C-Man 27317]

2 hours ago, Underdog said:

Void deal, watch all hell break loose, make KL sit out for year unpaid. 

Good lord, that would be orgasmic! Won't happen but a man can dream can't he?

 

[Machinator 32099]

 

[Goo Punch 4275]

damn:

 

[Dutchrudder 11156]

Maybe he should pray for some skills

[Goo Punch 4275]

 

[Chad 1728]

Every Spurs fan already knew Uncle Dennis was scum and a bush league agent to boot, but now everyone will begin to see the bigger picture.

[Patrick Bateman 3939]

8 hours ago, Dutchrudder said:

Maybe he should pray for some skills

Meh.  No idea what his agent was asking for but Lin can play in the league.  Solid 3rd or backup PG for a lot of teams.  He has his flaws but he played some solid ball for Atlanta last year, won a ring with the dinosaurs and was actually pretty decent in Brooklyn when he played, which wasn't much.  He's been dinged a lot though.  He should be on a NBA roster.

 

[Dutchrudder 11156]

22 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Meh.  No idea what his agent was asking for but Lin can play in the league.  Solid 3rd or backup PG for a lot of teams.  He has his flaws but he played some solid ball for Atlanta last year, won a ring with the dinosaurs and was actually pretty decent in Brooklyn when he played, which wasn't much.  He's been dinged a lot though.  He should be on a NBA roster.

 

He was god awful on the Raptors in the 20 games he played. His shooting percentages were in the toilet. If he can't shoot, he's not worth anything because he doesn't possess the playmaking skills a good point guard should have. He put up decent numbers in Atlanta, but failed to be effective at all on the best team in the East. He's done, unless he's willing to sign a 1 year minimum prove-it deal. I know the Knicks have room, maybe they can have a Linsanity reunion?

[gsoda3 3284]

before the trade last year he was decent.  his stats in atl and tor are drastically different.  i think he's a serviceable backup or #3.

[Patrick Bateman 3939]

2 hours ago, Dutchrudder said:

He was god awful on the Raptors in the 20 games he played. His shooting percentages were in the toilet. If he can't shoot, he's not worth anything because he doesn't possess the playmaking skills a good point guard should have. He put up decent numbers in Atlanta, but failed to be effective at all on the best team in the East. He's done, unless he's willing to sign a 1 year minimum prove-it deal. I know the Knicks have room, maybe they can have a Linsanity reunion?

He was definitely bad for the Raptors but that's a SSS and played decent in Atlanta.  His reaction would lead one to believe he basically got no offers and my point is he's proven to be at least worth a backup (2/3rd string) contract.  Vet min or room exception.  Now if his agent sold him on some offer coming in for 3/22m then yea, he probably needs to be more realistic but all his advanced stats paint him as a slightly above-average player, albeit only by a little. And 3 point shooting is definitely his weakness as he's gotten a little worst through the years.  Basically shoots about league average for the past 3 years, maybe a little less (bad last year), but overall he wasn't an atrocious shooter.  TS% was .558 last year.  That's tied with Khris (max contract) Middleton and Kemba Walker.  The truly terrible shooters who are regulars last year are guys like Josh Jackson, Kevin Knox (rookie), Cory Joseph (gulp), Russell Westbrook (wasn't he traded), and Andrew Wiggins (awful player).  His defense is soft so that probably hurt him, but hey, China's not all that bad for him.  He's probably going to have a good following, you can make money, get great massages and actually join a NBA team for the stretch.

 

 

[BigOrange1 6508]

6 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Meh.  No idea what his agent was asking for but Lin can play in the league.  Solid 3rd or backup PG for a lot of teams.  He has his flaws but he played some solid ball for Atlanta last year, won a ring with the dinosaurs and was actually pretty decent in Brooklyn when he played, which wasn't much.  He's been dinged a lot though.  He should be on a NBA roster.

 

the fuck would anyone neg that?

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

7 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Meh.  No idea what his agent was asking for but Lin can play in the league.  Solid 3rd or backup PG for a lot of teams

Yea, but add the fact that I think many teams would rather keep a young developing prospect as a 2nd or 3rd point guard, rather than a 30 year old veteran.  

[GHOSTUSER 361]

19 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

damn:

 

I know about rock bottom. You have a ways to go Jeremy. 

[Chapo 104]

5 hours ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Yea, but add the fact that I think many teams would rather keep a young developing prospect as a 2nd or 3rd point guard, rather than a 30 year old veteran.  

39 years old Derek Fisher says hi!

[Jhawk 1075]

Not to belittle his mental health but he needs to man the fuck up.  The NBA is a superstar league.  The only reason he ever even got a chance to do anything is because of the massive amount of injuries on the knicks roster.  Baron davis, Shumpert, Amare, and Melo were out when he really got his chance.  Who the fuck else was going to shoot the ball?  There are a ton of players in the league that can score when given the opportunity to shoot 20 times a game but there are only so many shots to go around.  To his credit, Lin made the most of it.  However, he isn't a superstar, he isn't some massively marketable player outside of his flash in the pan popularity, and he isn't going to get 20 shots a game over nearly anyone on at least half of the NBA 2 deep rosters.  Those are just the facts and his whining puts off the perception that he thinks he can start in the league when he has done good on shitty teams, decent on decent teams, and bad on good teams.  Newsflash, shitty teams aren't trying to spend a lot of money and be elevated to the 9-12 spot in the playoff race if that is their ceiling and that is exactly what it is with him.

I like Lin.  It is awesome to see a guy step up when they have the chance and he certainly did.  That doesn't entitle him to an NBA contract though and now it seems that he is just trying to cry his way to one.  You have had a good run but you need to get better, not worse, to stay in the league when you are constantly playing on small contracts.  There is too much new blood that is cheaper and under control for longer for you to not work your ass off every day like he did when the Knicks first picked him up. 

You've earned $65M in 9 years.  Man the fuck up and either get better or move on.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Jhawk

[52-80 19277]

you'd imagine he's been wayyy smarter with his money than most of the others in the league.  he's got a ton of wealth and a lot of life left... treat the 10 year as a fun ride

[Machinator 32099]

About $14MM short of a max.

[Patrick Bateman 3939]

Yuck.  I get the argument for it, small markets have to keep their core players but.... almost 32 million per for next 5 years and roughly 35 million in the last few years.  Ugh.  17 PER getting guys paid and I like CJ, but that's a massive overpay I assume Portland felt they had to make.

 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8908]

Ick...well we know portland ceiling right now which is being swept by GS.

That was before the LA super teams formed which have front court players that Portland will have no chance at stopping.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18621]

39 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Yuck.  I get the argument for it, small markets have to keep their core players but.... almost 32 million per for next 5 years and roughly 35 million in the last few years.  Ugh.  17 PER getting guys paid and I like CJ, but that's a massive overpay I assume Portland felt they had to make.

 

Yeah. You just hold your nose on that one. He was great in the playoffs but he will be 33 at the end of the deal (2023-24). No thanks. Plus Lillard will be making $54 million per year in the last year of his deal (2024-25) at age 34. That's a lot of cap tied up for two guys on the wrong side of 30.

The next CBA is going to be really interesting. The whole idea of the supermax was to level the field for the smaller markets so they could keep their free agents long term, and it has blown up in their face. I mean, Paul George forced a trade with two years left on his contract. Kawhi just said 'fuck it' in SA with two years left on his. It's gone completely off the rails. If the players are going to be running shit and creating their own rosters, I would think the owners would respond with lowering the max number of years on their contracts. All these horrible deals would much more palatable short term and you wouldn't get into situations like Chris Paul making $44 million dollars at age 37. Beyond a hard cap, I don't know what other recourse they have at this point.

[Jhawk 1075]

They're the splash brothers lite.  Keeps the rose garden full and they'll always have a puncher's chance, especially with the aging of the all star crop that has dominated the league for so long.  They have a puncher's chance against the rockets if Russ doesn't play nice, same with a young denver team. Same with the spurs and possibly a injury prone/tired warriors team.  If the lakers have an injury to davis or lebron then they have a chance against them.  That is a lot of stuff to fall into place, but if you're the GM and you want to make money then you stack their roster up against the west and you think if one or two things go right for you in each series then your ceiling is the conference finals.  The problem is going to be that they'll be the 7-8 seed and they'll need major help to get to the second round to see if things can fall into place.  I don't know if that happens, but what else are they going to do for the next year or two?  If the act gets tired they can just trade everyone away like the thunder did in 2-3 years.

[Machinator 32099]

1 minute ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I would think the owners would respond with lowering the max number of years on their contracts. A

They've already done this with the existing CBA and that's what's led to this unprecedented level of player movement.

[Jhawk 1075]

2 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Yeah. You just hold your nose on that one. He was great in the playoffs but he will be 33 at the end of the deal (2023-24). No thanks. Plus Lillard will be making $54 million per year in the last year of his deal (2024-25) at age 34. That's a lot of cap tied up for two guys on the wrong side of 30.

The next CBA is going to be really interesting. The whole idea of the supermax was to level the field for the smaller markets so they could keep their free agents long term, and it has blown up in their face. I mean, Paul George forced a trade with two years left on his contract. Kawhi just said 'fuck it' in SA with two years left on his. It's gone completely off the rails. If the players are going to be running shit and creating their own rosters, I would think the owners would respond with lowering the max number of years on their contracts. All these horrible deals would much more palatable short term and you wouldn't get into situations like Chris Paul making $44 million dollars at age 37. Beyond a hard cap, I don't know what other recourse they have at this point.

I think you said it.. owners effectively have to collude and not offer more than 3 year deals.  The prized free agents aren't taking them anyway.  Does anyone have a list of top players who have hit free agency AND signed the longest deal available to them?  It can't be that high.  Most guys who are signing these long term max deals are just extensions with their current teams with a sign and trade sprinkled in.  Seems that the 4 year max deals are all being signed by guys like LeMarcus who are the best player left on the board after the biggest names sign deals.

Maybe take away the single player salary max and in return the owners get it in the CBA that players can't have longer than 3 years on a deal at any given time and if a player openly requests a trade he can be suspended without pay for conduct detrimental to the team.  I don't know, something needs to be done but the players have nearly 100% of the leverage and will always find a way around it, especially the most high profile guys.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18621]

21 minutes ago, Machinator said:

They've already done this with the existing CBA and that's what's led to this unprecedented level of player movement.

That's kind of my point. This level of player movement is the new norm going forward. The money is so obscene and the superstars are getting paid so much that they have decided to play where they want and with who they want. That's not going away. The salary cap is not going down anytime soon. It's the new reality of the NBA.

Durant gave up something like $50 million from the Warriors to go to Brooklyn. And he did it at the same time he's recovering from a career threatening injury. Kawhi gave up probably more than that quitting on the Spurs and then bailing on the Raptors. It's insane, but it clearly does not make a material difference to these guys, especially when you consider what they make off the court. So, if they are going to play that game and dictate where they want to go anyway, what incentive do the owners have locking up guys long term?

[Patrick Bateman 3939]

44 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Yeah. You just hold your nose on that one. He was great in the playoffs but he will be 33 at the end of the deal (2023-24). No thanks. Plus Lillard will be making $54 million per year in the last year of his deal (2024-25) at age 34. That's a lot of cap tied up for two guys on the wrong side of 30.

The next CBA is going to be really interesting. The whole idea of the supermax was to level the field for the smaller markets so they could keep their free agents long term, and it has blown up in their face. I mean, Paul George forced a trade with two years left on his contract. Kawhi just said 'fuck it' in SA with two years left on his. It's gone completely off the rails. If the players are going to be running shit and creating their own rosters, I would think the owners would respond with lowering the max number of years on their contracts. All these horrible deals would much more palatable short term and you wouldn't get into situations like Chris Paul making $44 million dollars at age 37. Beyond a hard cap, I don't know what other recourse they have at this point.

But he wasn't great in the playoffs.  He had a couple of huge games but overall his advanceds were in line or slightly lower than his regular season.  He seems like a really good locker room guy and community ambassador and that has value but damn that back court is gonna be overpaid.  Feels like a better Steve Franchise/Mobley situation or the West version of Wall/Beal but better put together.  They should make the playoffs most years but hard to think with those 2 contract eating up the salary cap that they'll be able to repeat last year's run.

Also, I think lowering the years of control is sort of what got them in this mess.  It makes the offseason amazing for fans, but all the player movement makes it much more transactional.  I also would think there's going to be more carrot to play out contracts and maybe discussed ways for more stick for players demanding trades 2 or 3 years from the end of their deals.  The NFL barely ever trades and I think that sucks.  MLB has way too long of control of their players and I think that sucks.  But I'm sure the owners would like to find some happy medium to some of this movement. 

 

[Jhawk 1075]

Maybe something like 2 years on new contracts and 4 years max for retaining players but you can only do the extension in the last season of the contract. Eliminate sign and trades. 

Another beneficial consequence of something like that is that players won’t be worth as much in a trade. Teams won’t be gutted to get an AD Or other superstar should it come to trading them. 

In that scenario any team is just 2 years from rebuilding their roster if they manage it right. Mid-level players will complain because they want years but the upper level guys aren’t taking the years anyway so the teams are just over extending mid-level guys that don’t make or break the team anyway. This structure prevents the Nets from fucking themselves for 9 years. 

Edited July 30, 2019 by Jhawk

[Pimphand 6018]

Jesus christ the only team dumber at contracts than the Rockets....

[SilasCoade 2622]

Simple solution: hard cap on individual contracts' total values. You can sign a guy to $100M contract and pay him 100M for 1 year, 10M for 10 years, or 1M for a 100 years. Superstars get flexibility of shorter contracts to demand where they play, midlevel guys get security of longer contracts.

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

4 hours ago, Llogg said:

Simple solution: hard cap on individual contracts' total values. You can sign a guy to $100M contract and pay him 100M for 1 year, 10M for 10 years, or 1M for a 100 years. Superstars get flexibility of shorter contracts to demand where they play, midlevel guys get security of longer contracts.

Haha, and they can be structured un linearly: 1 million in year one, 5 year two, 20 year three, 1 year four, etc.

[d2o 1602]

3 hours ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Haha, and they can be structured un linearly: 1 million in year one, 5 year two, 20 year three, 1 year four, etc.

Yeah this would make the movement worse.   Just about any team could make 5M in cap room then any superstar could go anywhere get 5M in yr 1 then make 50M the next yr.

Edited July 31, 2019 by d2o

[SilasCoade 2622]

What's wrong with that? Stars can already do something similar, see kd taking short term sub max deals at GSW. That flexibility gives teams more flexibility and leverage without compromising long term organization health.

[d2o 1602]

13 hours ago, Llogg said:

What's wrong with that? Stars can already do something similar, see kd taking short term sub max deals at GSW. That flexibility gives teams more flexibility and leverage without compromising long term organization health.

I thought the goal was to limit player movement and stop the "team ups"

 

[SilasCoade 2622]

I don't think disempowering players is going to be viable. I was half-joking with my simple suggestion, but I do think something like that would at least give teams the ability to accommodate stars without destroying their long-term competitiveness. The notion that you have to commit to paying $35M a year to a guy when he's going to be 35 years old if you want to sign him when he's 30 is silly. Tell him you'll be happy to give him $50M the next two years, win a championship, and then pay him what his real production value warrants in the next phase of his career. Stars will still get paid. Teams will still get fucked. But teams would be able to be fucked for 1-2 years rather than 5-7 years.

[Murfdogg21 4466]

How about max or supermax pay doesn’t 100% count against the salary cap if they are signed with the team who originally drafted the players? That way teams can keep their stars but still have salary cap room to sign free agents and be competitive. If star players want to change teams, they either have to take less money or hamstring their new team’s salary cap. 

[d2o 1602]

1 hour ago, Murfdogg21 said:

How about max or supermax pay doesn’t 100% count against the salary cap if they are signed with the team who originally drafted the players? That way teams can keep their stars but still have salary cap room to sign free agents and be competitive. If star players want to change teams, they either have to take less money or hamstring their new team’s salary cap. 

Yeah I really thought that was what they were going to do when they introduced the supermax.    I would not say that it shouldn't count though.    Just the portion over the max that any other team could sign them for would not count.   It would even the playing the field more IMO.   Now when teams give the supermax it helps them keep their star but it significantly effects their ability to sign other players since more of their cap is tied up.

[d2o 1602]

2 hours ago, Llogg said:

I don't think disempowering players is going to be viable. I was half-joking with my simple suggestion, but I do think something like that would at least give teams the ability to accommodate stars without destroying their long-term competitiveness. The notion that you have to commit to paying $35M a year to a guy when he's going to be 35 years old if you want to sign him when he's 30 is silly. Tell him you'll be happy to give him $50M the next two years, win a championship, and then pay him what his real production value warrants in the next phase of his career. Stars will still get paid. Teams will still get fucked. But teams would be able to be fucked for 1-2 years rather than 5-7 years.

Teams have the ability to front load contracts now.   They just haven't been able to convince players/agents to accept many of those deals.

[SilasCoade 2622]

It's not about the ability to front load. It's about limiting the ability of stars to demand exorbitant salaries in the twilight of their careers. If your total contact value is capped you can still get paid up front but you can't use your current value to undermine a team's ability to remain competitive in the long term.