2019 NBA Offseason Thread -- Trades, Free Agents, Firings, Retirements, Etc

[d2o 1602]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/254386/Nets-Considered-Frontrunner-To-Sign-Kevin-Durant

 

 

The Brooklyn Nets' chances of signing both Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving appear to be improving. Durant has been most strongly linked to the New York Knicks throughout most of the season, but the situation is believed to have changed.

"The Nets are gaining confidence they can pull this off," said Brian Windhorst on The Jump. "They're continuing to make moves. They've made three moves in the last week. They're right there for a second slot.

"I think they're the frontrunner," added Kendrick Perkins. "I absolutely do. I think the Nets are the frontrunner to land K.D."

"He's not the only person involved in the NBA who has told me exactly that," replied Windhorst. "I am not ruling out the Knicks at all."

Perkins further explained his statement.

"Sources tell me that the Nets are the frontrunner," said Perkins. "We're going to leave it at that."

Brian Windhorst, Kendrick Perkins/ESPN

[aggie08 21424]

Perk and KD are extremely tight.

Oh man, I'm going to OD on the New York meltdown when their two highest priority targets sign across the bridge.

[Drew 2331]

9 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

what an idiot. 

Who Middleton?  That dude is going to get paid.  Either the Bucks will max him or he'll get a max offer elsewhere...I know they Mavs would offer him a Max deal as soon as FA starts if they felt he wouldn't get paid by the Bucks.

[LTtxfan 48962]

2 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Perk and KD are extremely tight.

Oh man, I'm going to OD on the New York meltdown when their two highest priority targets sign across the bridge.

But long term, are the Knicks really the losers if Kyrie and KD go to Brooklyn??   .I think it's a mistake for KD to team up with Kyrie if KD really wants to win another championship.  It could just as easily become another crash and burn show like "Kyrie and The Celtics" were. 

The Nets and Clippers will always play 2nd fiddle in popularity to the Knicks and Lakers...  Here's a catchy tune soon to be released from the New Brooklyn Broadway Show:

                🎶 Kyrie and the Nets🎶 

 

[Goo Punch 4275]

59 minutes ago, Drew said:

Who Middleton?  That dude is going to get paid.  Either the Bucks will max him or he'll get a max offer elsewhere...I know they Mavs would offer him a Max deal as soon as FA starts if they felt he wouldn't get paid by the Bucks.

i can't see the bucks maxing him. so he'll get paid alright, he'll just do so somewhere where they aren't going to win a title, which he has a chance to do in milwaukee.

[Francisco 2.0 32317]

15 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

i can't see the bucks maxing him. so he'll get paid alright, he'll just do so somewhere where they aren't going to win a title, which he has a chance to do in milwaukee.

When Giannis sees what kind of attempt that ownership makes in keeping Middleton and he doesn't like what he sees, his eyes will start looking elsewhere.  And that's when the chance goes out the window.

Besides, they aren't winning anything until Budenholzer becomes something more than a regular season coach.  

[Rockethorn1978 6061]

So many teams have cap space someone will max Middleton out, if he wants to win a title with the bucks then he will have to not want a max deal and if the bucks want to win a title they need another star level guy to add to giannis and Middleton but I don’t think Middleton is anywhere close to a “max” player. The mavs are morons if they give him a max deal, if anything the mavs should be able to offer to good contracts to two good players with their space and not let one guy eat it all up. 

But again we are in the era of teams having space and feeling the pressure to add someone so they had a good player and give him great player money.

[Burt Macklin 18993]

4 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

i can't see the bucks maxing him. so he'll get paid alright, he'll just do so somewhere where they aren't going to win a title, which he has a chance to do in milwaukee.

The Bucks are going to max Middleton, because if they don’t, Giannis will leave next year. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

wow. well good for khris middleton i guess.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

1 hour ago, Burt Macklin said:

The Bucks are going to max Middleton, because if they don’t, Giannis will leave next year. 

[NowThis 931]

how much more can the Nets offer KD over 5 years vs. what GS can do?  With NYC taxes in play, he'd be better off staying, right?  What are the numbers? 

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

4 minutes ago, NowThis said:

how much more can the Nets offer KD over 5 years vs. what GS can do?  With NYC taxes in play, he'd be better off staying, right?  What are the numbers? 

$0.  Golden State can offer him the most years and most money guaranteed.

[Dutchrudder 11115]

how much more can the Nets offer KD over 5 years vs. what GS can do?  With NYC taxes in play, he'd be better off staying, right?  What are the numbers? 

Most players don't give a shit about taxes. You might, but they don't. Plenty of other reasons to prefer one team/city over another.

[Francisco 2.0 32317]

1 hour ago, NowThis said:

how much more can the Nets offer KD over 5 years vs. what GS can do?  With NYC taxes in play, he'd be better off staying, right?  What are the numbers? 

He'll be a non-resident worker in whatever state he lives in; he doesn't give a shit about taxes.  Truthfully, I'm assuming he has a decent tax attorney at his beck and call.

 

[LTtxfan 48962]

50 minutes ago, NowThis said:

how much more can the Nets offer KD over 5 years vs. what GS can do?  With NYC taxes in play, he'd be better off staying, right?  What are the numbers? 

Amount of money from Knicks vs Warriors is not the most important thing for KD here.... nor are differences in the taxes between NY and CA.  

KD's shoe and endorsement money has him set for life as long as he works with quality investment advisers....

KD wants to be known as one of the greatest basketball players ever.... that's probably the biggest factor in deciding where he wants to play next.  My best guess is the Knicks will be KD's next team when he plays in the 2020-21 season.

[Dutchrudder 11115]

KD doesn't want to be seen as Curry's sidekick, he wants to be the big dog.

[Francisco 2.0 32317]

42 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

KD doesn't want to be seen as Curry's sidekick, he wants to be the big dog.

Funny, Irving didn't want to be LBJ's sidekick, he wanted to be the big dog.

Either KD and/or Irving is gonna have to figure out what they want to do.  If they do team up in Brooklyn, and KD misses this entire season, is Irving is gonna take a backseat to him in the fall of '20 when he comes back? 

The NBA, ladies and gentlemen.  Soap opera for men.

 

 

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

1 hour ago, Dutchrudder said:

KD doesn't want to be seen as Curry's sidekick, he wants to be the big dog.

I think the last 3 Finals have beyond proven he’s not a sidekick.  C’mon, you know who he is. 

[NowThis 931]

2 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

He'll be a non-resident worker in whatever state he lives in; he doesn't give a shit about taxes.  Truthfully, I'm assuming he has a decent tax attorney at his beck and call.

 

NYC has city taxes which will eat away at his salary that SF won't , to the tune of (my guess) $5-10mil over 4 years (right?).  I saw a KD interview where he said he wants to make as much as possible. So from a purely financial view, NYC is a deathtrap, $millions isn't small change for someone set on maximizing the net paycheck.  He really should care about taxes, all NBA players should really, especially marginal ones where every incremental $100k counts a lot for a lifetime. Which is why the 3 Texas and 2 FL teams maximize the dollars.

[formermav43 4599]

2 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

Funny, Irving didn't want to be LBJ's sidekick, he wanted to be the big dog.

Either KD and/or Irving is gonna have to figure out what they want to do.  If they do team up in Brooklyn, and KD misses this entire season, is Irving is gonna take a backseat to him in the fall of '20 when he comes back? 

The NBA, ladies and gentlemen.  Soap opera for men.

 

 

Should he take a backseat to a 32 year old coming off a major injury that he might not ever fully recover from?

[d2o 1602]

14 hours ago, Burt Macklin said:

The Bucks are going to max Middleton, because if they don’t, Giannis will leave next year. 

Yeah that's a bit extreme but I do think it could have a small effect on Giannis' thoughts of the team's loyalty to their players.    He was pretty upset about them trading Thon Maker last year too.   

 

I think the question is moot anyway.    They will not have the money to replace him if they let him go so they kinda have to pay to keep him.   They cant afford to let him get an offer on the open market so they have to overpay to keep him from looking.

Edited June 23, 2019 by d2o

[Aqua Buddha 14501]

11 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

He'll be a non-resident worker in whatever state he lives in; he doesn't give a shit about taxes.  Truthfully, I'm assuming he has a decent tax attorney at his beck and call.

 

Taxes are paid based on the municipality the game is played in.  For example, a player for the Dallas Cowboys plays 8 games at home in Texas but 8 games on the road.  He'll file up to eight different state income tax returns based on those locations.  In the case of NYC taxes, they're on par with CA so that's a push in the Durant equation.  

Also, players most definitely give a shit about state taxes.  The stars might not because of other factors but mid level guys in every sport care.  

[Burt Macklin 18993]

27 minutes ago, d2o said:

Yeah that's a bit extreme but I do think it could have a small effect on Giannis' thoughts of the team's loyalty to their players.    He was pretty upset about them trading Thon Maker last year too.   

 

I think the question is moot anyway.    They will not have the money to replace him if they let him go so they kinda have to pay to keep him.   They cant afford to let him get an offer on the open market so they have to overpay to keep him from looking.

My point isn’t really Middleton specifically. Unless they can replace Middleton with a better max guy this offseason, then Giannis likely won’t re-up with them unless they keep Middleton. Otherwise, it’ll be like Lebron’s first go around in Cleveland where he looks around and realizes his team is terrible with no clear way to improve.  

Brogdon’s an RFA and with so much cap space floating around, someone might make him a crazy offer. The Bucks are going to struggle to improve the roster they had this year.

[d2o 1602]

18 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

My point isn’t really Middleton specifically. Unless they can replace Middleton with a better max guy this offseason, then Giannis likely won’t re-up with them unless they keep Middleton. Otherwise, it’ll be like Lebron’s first go around in Cleveland where he looks around and realizes his team is terrible with no clear way to improve.  

Brogdon’s an RFA and with so much cap space floating around, someone might make him a crazy offer. The Bucks are going to struggle to improve the roster they had this year.

Brogdon will get a large offer a week or so after FA starts.     I don't think Giannis' team around him is or has been as bad as LBJ's was.   MIL FO has shown to be competent in the draft and with trades.   They can and will continue to improve the roster.      Additionally, Giannis has been pretty outspoken about not going to join other stars.

One of the latest rumors has them dumping Bledsoe and being a front runner if BKN has to renounce D'angelo Russell.

Edited June 23, 2019 by d2o

[Burt Macklin 18993]

27 minutes ago, d2o said:

Yeah that's a bit extreme but I do think it could have a small effect on Giannis' thoughts of the team's loyalty to their players.    He was pretty upset about them trading Thon Maker last year too.   

 

I think the question is moot anyway.    They will not have the money to replace him if they let him go so they kinda have to pay to keep him.   They cant afford to let him get an offer on the open market so they have to overpay to keep him from looking.

My point isn’t really Middleton specifically. Unless they can replace Middleton with a better max guy this offseason, then Giannis likely won’t re-up with them unless they keep Middleton. Otherwise, it’ll be like Lebron’s first go around in Cleveland where he looks around and realizes his team is terrible with no clear way to improve.  

Brogdon’s an RFA and with so much cap space floating around, someone might make him a crazy offer. The Bucks are going to struggle to improve the roster they had this year.

[Burt Macklin 18993]

52 minutes ago, d2o said:

Brogdon will get a large offer a week or so after FA starts.     I don't think Giannis' team around him is or has been as bad as LBJ's was.   MIL FO has shown to be competent in the draft and with trades.   They can and will continue to improve the roster.      Additionally, Giannis has been pretty outspoken about not going to join other stars.

One of the latest rumors has them dumping Bledsoe and being a front runner if BKN has to renounce D'angelo Russell.

Regardless, replacing Middleton and Bledsoe with Russell is still a downgrade in overall talent and they’ll likely have to give up a draft pick to dump Bledsoe. Plus, if they lose Brogdon in all that, they’ll be worse with minimal draft capital and minimal cap room to improve.

Giannis saying he won’t join stars is meaningless. KD said the same sort of thing a couple years before he left. If Giannis feels like the roster around him isn’t good enough to win a title, then he’ll probably leave. It’s hard to see a way for them to upgrade their team talent that involves Middleton leaving unless they can get some better player to sign for the Max without losing other assets, which seems unlikely. 

 

[d2o 1602]

6 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Regardless, replacing Middleton and Bledsoe with Russell is still a downgrade in overall talent and they’ll likely have to give up a draft pick to dump Bledsoe. Plus, if they lose Brogdon in all that, they’ll be worse with minimal draft capital and minimal cap room to improve.

Giannis saying he won’t join stars is meaningless. KD said the same sort of thing a couple years before he left. If Giannis feels like the roster around him isn’t good enough to win a title, then he’ll probably leave. It’s hard to see a way for them to upgrade their team talent that involves Middleton leaving unless they can get some better player to sign for the Max without losing other assets, which seems unlikely. 

 

They wouldn't be losing Middleton to get Russell and no they wont have to give up a pick to trade Bledsoe.    There are a few teams out there that are pretty desperate for a pg and have cap room that will take him on.   Especially after a few of the big FAs sign and teams that have miss out and still have cap room look to fill spots. 

Brogdon is a RFA so the only thing that would stop them from keeping him is if they just don't start pushing into the lux tax.  If they start facing money issues they can let George Hill go as his contract is only guaranteed for 1M this yr.    So its pretty unlikely they let Brogdon go.

They may lose Lopez and possibly Mirotic depending on if those guys are more motivated to get paid this summer than to remain in a winning situation.       They will need to find adequate replacements for them but barring a major change of plans their main pieces will largely be unchanged next yr.     If they can add Russell that is a major addition.    They struggled with offense when Giannis wasnt on the floor.   Russell would definitely help with that.

[Burt Macklin 18993]

4 minutes ago, d2o said:

They wouldn't be losing Middleton to get Russell and no they wont have to give up a pick to trade Bledsoe.    There are a few teams out there that are pretty desperate for a pg and have cap room that will take him on.   Especially after a few of the big FAs sign and teams that have miss out and still have cap room look to fill spots. 

Brogdon is a RFA so the only thing that would stop them from keeping him is if they just don't start pushing into the lux tax.  If they start facing money issues they can let George Hill go as his contract is only guaranteed for 1M this yr.    So its pretty unlikely they let Brogdon go.

They may lose Lopez and possibly Mirotic depending on if those guys are more motivated to get paid this summer than to remain in a winning situation.       They will need to find adequate replacements for them but barring a major change of plans their main pieces will largely be unchanged next yr.     If they can add Russell that is a major addition.    They struggled with offense when Giannis wasnt on the floor.   Russell would definitely help with that.

There are like 10 teams that think they’re getting Russell. We’ll see but it seems unlikely they’ll get him. 

You’re being extremely optimistic with all these projections for them. Regardless, I don’t see many scenarios where they don’t offer Middleton the max to keep him. 

[d2o 1602]

13 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

There are like 10 teams that think they’re getting Russell. We’ll see but it seems unlikely they’ll get him. 

You’re being extremely optimistic with all these projections for them. Regardless, I don’t see many scenarios where they don’t offer Middleton the max to keep him. 

Yeah and I think your doom and gloom scenario of losing everyone with no way to gain talent in return is a bit over the top.

They are in control of both Middleton and Brogdon.  They have the fail safe of the Hill contract and can make cap space by trading Bledsoe.   While Mirotic and Lopez were good pieces they are not irreplaceable.   No reason to not be at the very least cautiously optimistic. 

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

Bucks have a lot of different ways they can go.  I do believe they'll re-sign Middleton and unfortunately for them, drastically overpay for him and get into a bad contract.  If I was the Bucks GM, I would ensure I knew where I stood with Brogdon first, who is a better player.  From there, they can move a lot of cap space around.  It would be strange to trade Bledsoe away, who they just extended this spring, for Russell?  Why?  I get Russell is young and probably an improving player, but he's most likely going to get a max offer or close to it while Bledsoe is on a nice manageable extension of 16m this season.  That doesn't make much sense for me for not much improvement. 

I'd look to make room by shipping off Hill's unguaranteed contract and find a home for Leuer's expiring.  That gives them some space to make some decisions.  Mirotic/Lopez vs Middleton looks to be the question.  If you look at the numbers, Mirotic is about as valuable as Middleton by the numbers, now qualitatively there can be some advantages to Middleton as he can get his own shot at times, Mirotic more of a spacer and needs some help.  Maybe the can get Marcus Morris or someone like that in free agency to fill the Mirotic role then see if you can get Lopez to stay by giving him some of your exception money which will the non taxpayer MLE.  Really, I would have been exploring some trade possibilities for S&T's but those rarely happen anymore.

 

[Francisco 2.0 32317]

1 hour ago, d2o said:

Yeah and I think your doom and gloom scenario of losing everyone with no way to gain talent in return is a bit over the top.

They are in control of both Middleton and Brogdon.  They have the fail safe of the Hill contract and can make cap space by trading Bledsoe.   While Mirotic and Lopez were good pieces they are not irreplaceable.   No reason to not be at the very least cautiously optimistic. 

The only control they can offer is one additional year.  

Lopez is unrestricted, and since the Bucks used the bi-annual on him this past season, they can't use it for this coming season.  The Bucks paid him just over $3 million last year; it's probably going to take at least another 10-15 million on top of that to retain his services.  

I said it last week, of the four of Brogdan, MIrotic, Lopez and Middleton, I suspect the Bucks lose two of those four.  Their ownership may talk about paying taxes, but the aren't the Warriors. And their fan base sure as hell aren't paying Warrior level prices next year.

[LTtxfan 48962]

Free Agency article....

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27015402/how-nba-draft-sets-league-altering-free-agency

[d2o 1602]

1 hour ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

The only control they can offer is one additional year.  

Lopez is unrestricted, and since the Bucks used the bi-annual on him this past season, they can't use it for this coming season.  The Bucks paid him just over $3 million last year; it's probably going to take at least another 10-15 million on top of that to retain his services.  

I said it last week, of the four of Brogdan, MIrotic, Lopez and Middleton, I suspect the Bucks lose two of those four.  Their ownership may talk about paying taxes, but the aren't the Warriors. And their fan base sure as hell aren't paying Warrior level prices next year.

And a LOT more money!  Something 40-50M over the course of the deal.   For a middling star like Middleton that can make a huge difference unlike for someone like KD or other superstars who still can be a prime star at the end of the deal and will have endorsements to make up the difference.

Lopez has made plenty of money is his career he may be willing to take less to stay.    They pretty much saved what's left of his career this past season.   He may be willing to pay them back a little.

I put them in this order by likelihood to leave.

Mirotic

Lopez

Hill

Bledsoe

Middleton

Brogdon

Edited June 23, 2019 by d2o

[Francisco 2.0 32317]

28 minutes ago, d2o said:

And a LOT more money!  Something 40-50M over the course of the deal.   For a middling star like Middleton that can make a huge difference unlike for someone like KD or other superstars who still can be a prime star at the end of the deal and will have endorsements to make up the difference.

 

$49 million to be exact.

4/$141 

5/$190 if he stays in Milwaukee.  And his agent said not to expect a hometown discount.

Honestly, this is one that I don't expect to be signed on July 6.

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

17 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

$49 million to be exact.

4/$141 

5/$190 if he stays in Milwaukee.  And his agent said not to expect a hometown discount.

Honestly, this is one that I don't expect to be signed on July 6.

Well he either takes the hometown discount or the away team discount.  

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

23 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

He'll be a non-resident worker in whatever state he lives in; he doesn't give a shit about taxes.  Truthfully, I'm assuming he has a decent tax attorney at his beck and call.

 

And apparently he makes more in endorsements than he does salary

[LTtxfan 48962]

13 minutes ago, Barry_McCokiner said:

And apparently he makes more in endorsements than he does salary

Yes.... for example, KD's shoe deal alone is $300 million 

https://www.ibtimes.com/kevin-durant-shoe-deal-why-did-nike-match-under-armours-contract-offer-1677474

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

10 hours ago, d2o said:

Brogdon will get a large offer a week or so after FA starts.     I don't think Giannis' team around him is or has been as bad as LBJ's was.   MIL FO has shown to be competent in the draft and with trades.   They can and will continue to improve the roster.      Additionally, Giannis has been pretty outspoken about not going to join other stars.

One of the latest rumors has them dumping Bledsoe and being a front runner if BKN has to renounce D'angelo Russell.

That Bledsoe signing proved to be a mistake during the playoffs. George Hill was infinitely better than him, especially against Toronto. 

[SilasCoade 2620]

Rodney Hood would be a nice piece for the Bucks, but I imagine Portland wants to keep him as well.

It's crazy that the Bucks' roster might return like 4 players from this past year. (Four of any consequence.) I'm not sure I see a path for them to improve as I think they had a bunch of undervalued guys (Hill, Mirotic, Middleton, Brogdon, Lopez).

[NowThis 931]

2 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

Yes.... for example, KD's shoe deal alone is $300 million 

https://www.ibtimes.com/kevin-durant-shoe-deal-why-did-nike-match-under-armours-contract-offer-1677474

in what state is his shoe contract taxed? 

[Aqua Buddha 14501]

7 hours ago, NowThis said:

in what state is his shoe contract taxed? 

In the state of residence where it is signed.  It's the reason a lot of golfers live in Florida.  The taxes on their on the course winnings are taxed in the state the tournament is played in.  However, their endorsement deals are their state of residence.

[d2o 1602]

 

[d2o 1602]

25 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

So, the Knicks went from dreaming of Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving, and Zion Williamson two months ago to instead facing down the barrel of RJ Barrett plus signing someone like Kris Middleton or Kemba Walker to max contracts.   And now the Nets are going to throw money at DAJ just on the hope that it will help make the team more attractive to KD.

Haha.   Those franchises and the NYC centric basketball media deserve to EABOD for another 10 years.

The Knicks swear they will not sign big money to long term deals and just roll their cap room over to next season if they don't sign one of the big FAs but I will believe that when I see it.

[NowThis 931]

the Knicks should move to Seattle 

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

55 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

So, the Knicks went from dreaming of Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving, and Zion Williamson two months ago to instead facing down the barrel of RJ Barrett plus signing someone like Kris Middleton or Kemba Walker to max contracts.   And now the Nets are going to throw money at DAJ just on the hope that it will help make the team more attractive to KD.

Haha.   Those franchises and the NYC centric basketball media deserve to EABOD for another 10 years.

I don't even think Walker would go to the Knicks over re-signing in Charlotte.  If they can't get KD, it really could be hard for Barrett because they're probably going to suck again next year and it'll be a lot of losing for those youngsters in the beginning of their careers.

I mean, this is how they're making headlines right now..... smh

 

Edited June 24, 2019 by Patrick Bateman

[d2o 1602]

 

[d2o 1602]

28 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

I don't even think Walker would go to the Knicks over re-signing in Charlotte.  If they can't get KD, it really could be hard for Barrett because they're probably going to suck again next year and it'll be a lot of losing for those youngsters in the beginning of their careers.

I mean, this is how they're making headlines right now..... smh

 

Yeah I can't imagine Kemba would give up money to go to NYC........and he's from NYC!

 

 

That fine should have been 10 times as much at least.   That's just Dolan being a bitch

Edited June 24, 2019 by d2o

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

And here we go..... drips should start coming in with some trades and then rumors and then deals on the 30th/1st.

 

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

Hmmm.....

It is the silly season so there will be plenty of bad information out there.... even from reputable sources.

[SilasCoade 2620]

Is bleacher report reputable?