2019 NBA Offseason Thread -- Trades, Free Agents, Firings, Retirements, Etc

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

49 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

Let's assume the lakers get Kawhi or butler for their last max spot (regardless of whether butler is worth it or not).  They have 4 players and have about $10M of cap space.  Doesn't that mean that the other 11 guys all have to play at the vet minimum?

 

Also... this is not how the heat were assembled.  The heat retained 7 of their players from the previous roster.  They didn't wholesale everyone and then come back with a bunch of vet minimum guys because they were trading for ONE guy.  Lebron, Bosh, and Wade took pay cuts so they could be together.  AD, Lebron, and #3 are all getting max'd out to be together.  You can say what you want about my shitty opinions but acting like this is how Riley built the heat is just not true.

If they sign Butler then they'll have 4 guys on their roster -- Lebron, AD, Butler and Caruso.  The rest will be minimum salaries and exceptions -- MLE and Room (if they have it).

 

[LTtxfan 48952]

On 6/18/2019 at 10:57 AM, Sbbruin said:

Actually, I'm pretty sure it was 22.

 

 

NOPE.... It was #23

"It kinda feels like the Lakers went to Vegas, placed a bet on #23 at roulette, and just spun the wheel..."

  

 

[Underdog 28443]

Did he at least wash it first before handing it over to AD?

[Sbbruin 21704]

28 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

If they sign Butler then they'll have 4 guys on their roster -- Lebron, AD, Butler and Caruso.  The rest will be minimum salaries and exceptions -- MLE and Room (if they have it).

 

And Kuzma.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

1 minute ago, Sbbruin said:

And Kuzma.

Knew I missed someone.  So 5 guys under contract.  Thank you.

 

[d2o 1602]

1 hour ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Serious question, why not? Why couldn't they just agree in principle like they do on all the draft trades? They know exactly which players are going where. They know exactly what cap space is left. There aren't any regular season games being played. Hell, they do the same thing during the free agency moratorium. The players agree in principle and then sign later. The only potential issue would be rookies missing out on playing Summer League with their teams. If LA had insisted on that being part of the deal in the first place, the Pelicans would have almost certainly gone along with it.

Honestly, the NBA needs to look at how they time all this shit out. It's ridiculous to have a guy walk up to the stage, put on a Grizzlies hat when everybody in the free world knows he's going to Atlanta. It's ridiculous that the NBA has a rule that you have to wait 30 days after a first round pick has signed to trade him. I guess all of this is because of the Stepian Rule? Teams have been circumventing that rule for years. It's just stupid. 

Cause if any of it fell through players would be left with other options as all the other teams would have spent their money by that time.

[d2o 1602]

1 hour ago, Jhawk said:

Let's assume the lakers get Kawhi or butler for their last max spot (regardless of whether butler is worth it or not).  They have 4 players and have about $10M of cap space.  Doesn't that mean that the other 11 guys all have to play at the vet minimum?

 

Also... this is not how the heat were assembled.  The heat retained 7 of their players from the previous roster.  They didn't wholesale everyone and then come back with a bunch of vet minimum guys because they were trading for ONE guy.  Lebron, Bosh, and Wade took pay cuts so they could be together.  AD, Lebron, and #3 are all getting max'd out to be together.  You can say what you want about my shitty opinions but acting like this is how Riley built the heat is just not true.

The heat traded away 2 picks each for both LBJ and Bosh.   They dumped the #2 pick from a yr before in Beasley and pretty much everyone else.   The 3 took about 2M less so that they could keep Mike Miller and Haslem.   All the other guys they brought back were on vet min deals.     This was on the old CBA as well so there are other factors but the point remains, this is not much different at all.

 

Here is the salary breakdown in the first yr the Heats big 3 got together.    That's not filling out with min guys?   The Laker salary breakdown this yr will be quite similar if they do get a 3rd max guy

Rk Salary

1Chris Bosh$14,500,000

2LeBron James$14,500,000

3Dwyane Wade$14,200,000

4Mike Miller$5,000,000

5Udonis Haslem$3,500,000

6Joel Anthony$3,300,000

7Eddie House$1,352,181

8Juwan Howard$1,352,181

9Zydrunas Ilgauskas$1,352,181

10Jamaal Magloire$1,229,255

11Carlos Arroyo$1,223,166

12Erick Dampier$1,129,469

13James Jones$1,069,509

14Mario Chalmers$854,389

15Patrick Beverly$473,604

16Da'Sean Butler$473,604

17Dexter Pittman$473,604

18Jerry Stackhouse$222,712

Edited June 27, 2019 by d2o

[d2o 1602]

1 hour ago, Patrick Bateman said:

If they sign Butler then they'll have 4 guys on their roster -- Lebron, AD, Butler and Caruso.  The rest will be minimum salaries and exceptions -- MLE and Room (if they have it).

 

Because they will be making the trade as an over the cap team they would be eligible for the MLE

[Dutchrudder 11113]

4 hours ago, d2o said:

 

Why didn't New Orleans offer to take these guys?  One is on a non-guaranteed deal that can be waived immediately, the other two are minimum money with potential upside. Kind of odd, given that they could have added them to the AD deal with no issues. Probably could have flipped Wagner to the Wizards mid-season for their 2nd. 

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

19 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

Why didn't New Orleans offer to take these guys?  One is on a non-guaranteed deal that can be waived immediately, the other two are minimum money with potential upside. Kind of odd, given that they could have added them to the AD deal with no issues. Probably could have flipped Wagner to the Wizards mid-season for their 2nd. 

Because of this.....

And this.... they want all the cap and roster space they can get.  They have 3 rookies coming on to a team.  I think they feel it's not about going totally young anymore.  With the right secondary piece they may be able to challenge for a playoff spot but definitely will probably go for it in 2021.

 

[d2o 1602]

51 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

Why didn't New Orleans offer to take these guys?  One is on a non-guaranteed deal that can be waived immediately, the other two are minimum money with potential upside. Kind of odd, given that they could have added them to the AD deal with no issues. Probably could have flipped Wagner to the Wizards mid-season for their 2nd. 

Yeah, all of what PB said.   They have enough young guys and they want/need to have as much cap space as possible.      That tweet says Tobias Harris but I have heard they are pretty hot after Horford with their space.   He would fit pretty well with the young guys too.

[d2o 1602]

 

[Captain Obvious 516]

21 minutes ago, d2o said:

 

Probably should have tried to move him earlier than lose him for nothing, but still not as as bad as paying Kemba the supermax or anything close to it just to be a borderline playoff team at best for the next 5+ years.  Start the attempted rebuild earlier.

[Message Board User 12389]

4 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

Probably should have tried to move him earlier than lose him for nothing, but still not as as bad as paying Kemba the supermax or anything close to it just to be a borderline playoff team at best for the next 5+ years.  Start the attempted rebuild earlier.

Username checks out.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

43 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

Probably should have tried to move him earlier than lose him for nothing, but still not as as bad as paying Kemba the supermax or anything close to it just to be a borderline playoff team at best for the next 5+ years.  Start the attempted rebuild earlier.

Agreed but apparently, MJ really wanted to try and make the playoffs because the fanbase is dire (bottom 8 in home % attendance and total).  Now, it's mostly because of his management and he's also rather miserly about paying tax, so if you're dumb and cheap, it's really hard to win in the league.  Now, I'll say this, they shouldn't have maxed out Kemba.  He's not a max player, at all, but a lot of  folks wanted him to max him out because he wanted to stay and he was their only excellent first round draft pick in the last decade.  But really what they need is a total tear down and reset.  Get all that terrible money off the table and tank.... and hope you can get a couple of good assets in the draft to build a foundation with.  They need to be crafty with their assets including their cap space.  Kemba at 40 million is a bad bet, so I'm not going to kill them for letting him go, it's the product of a decade of mistakes.  Burn it down..... see if the new GM/coach can build it up.

But yes, you're correct.  Should have flipped him last year.

 

[Machinator 32097]

3 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Agreed but apparently, MJ really wanted to try and make the playoffs because the fanbase is dire (bottom 8 in home % attendance and total). 

Also would have been off-putting to dump your only All-Star caliber player just as you're set to host the All-Star game.

[Murfdogg21 4412]

It’s the time of the year to again bring up state income taxes and how pro athletes don’t seem to understand it and agents disregard it because they only get paid on the contract value, not the take home pay. 

When Lebron, Wade, and Bosh “took $2M less”, they were playing in Florida with no state income, saving them as much as $2M per year vs playing in NY or CA. 

Up to 10% more take-home pay is a selling point for HOU, DAL, SA, ORL, MIA, MEM that always seemed overlooked by media and players. 

[Aqua Buddha 14501]

1 hour ago, Murfdogg21 said:

It’s the time of the year to again bring up state income taxes and how pro athletes don’t seem to understand it and agents disregard it because they only get paid on the contract value, not the take home pay. 

When Lebron, Wade, and Bosh “took $2M less”, they were playing in Florida with no state income, saving them as much as $2M per year vs playing in NY or CA. 

Up to 10% more take-home pay is a selling point for HOU, DAL, SA, ORL, MIA, MEM that always seemed overlooked by media and players. 

More understand it than you think.  I remember it being a factor with Paul George.  While OK has an income tax, it’s certainly not the 13% that CA has.  

You are correct, though.  Agents downplay this and a lot of these guys are in their 20’s and don’t think about it.

[C-Man 27029]

17 hours ago, d2o said:

The heat traded away 2 picks each for both LBJ and Bosh.   They dumped the #2 pick from a yr before in Beasley and pretty much everyone else.   The 3 took about 2M less so that they could keep Mike Miller and Haslem.   All the other guys they brought back were on vet min deals.     This was on the old CBA as well so there are other factors but the point remains, this is not much different at all.

 

Here is the salary breakdown in the first yr the Heats big 3 got together.    That's not filling out with min guys?   The Laker salary breakdown this yr will be quite similar if they do get a 3rd max guy

Rk Salary

1Chris Bosh$14,500,000

2LeBron James$14,500,000

3Dwyane Wade$14,200,000

4Mike Miller$5,000,000

5Udonis Haslem$3,500,000

6Joel Anthony$3,300,000

7Eddie House$1,352,181

8Juwan Howard$1,352,181

9Zydrunas Ilgauskas$1,352,181

10Jamaal Magloire$1,229,255

11Carlos Arroyo$1,223,166

12Erick Dampier$1,129,469

13James Jones$1,069,509

14Mario Chalmers$854,389

15Patrick Beverly$473,604

16Da'Sean Butler$473,604

17Dexter Pittman$473,604

18Jerry Stackhouse$222,712

Goodness, if this doesn't drive home how bananas salaries have gone in less than a decade, I don't know what will. I mean journeyman are making $14M/season now.

[d2o 1602]

20 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Goodness, if this doesn't drive home how bananas salaries have gone in less than a decade, I don't know what will. I mean journeyman are making $14M/season now.

The cap has pretty much doubled since then.     When you have maximum salaries capped the rest of the cap has to go somewhere.

 

[Machinator 32097]

 

Edited June 28, 2019 by Machinator

[Francisco 2.0 32313]

 

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27071495/blame-kyrie-not-simple-boston

 

Good piece by Jackie MacMullen; there's lots of stuff within, but this passage.  Even if Irving had checked out mentally, why be a dick and not sign the balls?

 

Quote

At the completion of the regular season, the team set up 100 balls in a room for their charitable partners. Everyone signed the balls except Irving. When pressed to do it, say team sources, he was neither aggressive nor confrontational. He merely said, "No, I'm not interested in that."

 

 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

Goodness, if this doesn't drive home how bananas salaries have gone in less than a decade, I don't know what will. I mean journeyman are making $14M/season now.

That's what I thought of too. Seems like yesterday someone like KG was making 20 million a year and it was historical.


Now gorgui dieng makes it and he comes off the bench for a team that cant make the playoffs.

[d2o 1602]

 

 

There is a reason that bad teams are bad.

[Burt Macklin 18989]

2 minutes ago, d2o said:

 

 

There is a reason that bad teams are bad.

Eh. They won 39 games last year and have had almost no success signing outside FAs, so teams like the Kings have to overpay a bit to keep guys. It’s certainly not a good signing, but what are they supposed to do? If they let him walk, they’re not likely to sign a better FA at his position and will likely be drafting in the late lottery next year, so they probably can’t replace him through the draft. They also won’t really need the cap space until 2021 and by then, his deal will look quite a bit better.  

[d2o 1602]

6 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Eh. They won 39 games last year and have had almost no success signing outside FAs, so teams like the Kings have to overpay a bit to keep guys. It’s certainly not a good signing, but what are they supposed to do? If they let him walk, they’re not likely to sign a better FA at his position and will likely be drafting in the late lottery next year, so they probably can’t replace him through the draft. They also won’t really need the cap space until 2021 and by then, his deal will look quite a bit better.  

Nah, if he opts out I would have offered him maybe 2 yrs if they are just that certain they cannot find someone else.   If he balks at 2 yrs, I find anyone to overpay for a yr and roll that money until next yr.    4 yr 90M is insane for him.      They finally have some glimmer of hope with their young roster and (if this happens) will have hamstrung their team's ability to make trades and get draft picks.

Edited June 28, 2019 by d2o

[Burt Macklin 18989]

Just now, d2o said:

Nah, if he opts out I would have offered him maybe 2 yrs if they are just that certain they cannot find someone else.   If he balks at 2 yrs, I find anyone to overpay for a yr and roll that money until next yr.    4 yr 90M is insane for him.      They finally have some glimmer of hope with their young roster and (if this happens) will have hamstrung their team's ability to make trades to anget draft picks.

It’s easy to say find someone else but who would they find? What trades would they make? Giving up assets for someone else won’t be easy and likely wouldn’t improve the team that much.

 

[d2o 1602]

2 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

It’s easy to say find someone else but who would they find? What trades would they make? Giving up assets for someone else won’t be easy and likely wouldn’t improve the team that much.

 

I'm saying I don't think Barnes is a positive.   He is an average at best player.   There will be plenty of average at best players available in the next week and when good teams run out f money they can overpay one for a yr.    I'm not talking about making a trade to get a player that makes them better.    They probably wont be able to do that.   I'm talking about facilitating a trade to take on some other teams bad deal and get a pick to do so.     Overpaying Barnes for the next 4 yrs is an awful move no matter how it is sliced.

[Sbbruin 21704]

21 hours ago, C-Man said:

Let me just chime in to say Fuck the Lakers. Fuck that whole franchise.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

22 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Eh. They won 39 games last year and have had almost no success signing outside FAs, so teams like the Kings have to overpay a bit to keep guys. It’s certainly not a good signing, but what are they supposed to do? If they let him walk, they’re not likely to sign a better FA at his position and will likely be drafting in the late lottery next year, so they probably can’t replace him through the draft. They also won’t really need the cap space until 2021 and by then, his deal will look quite a bit better.  

Harrison Barnes, at best, is an average basketball player and his numbers say he's below average and actually regressed the last 3 years.  So if the choice is Harrison Barnes for 22.5 million for 4 years or going dumpster diving for values in free agency which you can get for a fraction of the price, I pick B every time.  d20 is correct, this is what poorly run basketball teams do.  I will say his rep is as a good guy around the league and good teammate.  He also did have a career year shooting the 3 but it's still a horrid contract if offered.

 

[Burt Macklin 18989]

21 minutes ago, d2o said:

I'm saying I don't think Barnes is a positive.   He is an average at best player.   There will be plenty of average at best players available in the next week and when good teams run out f money they can overpay one for a yr.    I'm not talking about making a trade to get a player that makes them better.    They probably wont be able to do that.   I'm talking about facilitating a trade to take on some other teams bad deal and get a pick to do so.     Overpaying Barnes for the next 4 yrs is an awful move no matter how it is sliced.

I’d love to see what player that’s better than Barnes will be left on the market and choose Sacramento for a one year deal. It ain’t gonna happen, and even then, the Kings would just be stuck in the same spot next year. 

How many teams have actually given up a Player of value for cap space recently? And teams won’t be running out of cap space to sign FAs this offseason. There’s a ton of teams flush with space. 

People overrate cap space for small market teams that have trouble signing marquee FAs. Teams hardly ever give up real assets to dump salaries anymore. The cap’s been escalating too much each year for that. 

[Burt Macklin 18989]

8 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Harrison Barnes, at best, is an average basketball player and his numbers say he's below average and actually regressed the last 3 years.  So if the choice is Harrison Barnes for 22.5 million for 4 years or going dumpster diving for values in free agency which you can get for a fraction of the price, I pick B every time.  d20 is correct, this is what poorly run basketball teams do.  I will say his rep is as a good guy around the league and good teammate.  He also did have a career year shooting the 3 but it's still a horrid contract if offered.

 

His regression is slight and is mainly due to the Mavs getting worse around him, leading him to play too much iso ball. All of his efficiency metrics improved on the Kings and he was an average to above average player for them.

You can talk about getting cheap guys but they can do that anyways. They’ll still have like $40 million in cap space.

A team like the Kings doesn’t have much choice but to overpay. They’re not even going to be able to sign someone like Tobias Harris if they offered him the max, so them having a bunch of cap space doesn’t really do anything for them. 

Having a worse overall team just so they can sit there with a bunch of cap space doesn’t really benefit them at all. 

Like I said, it’s not a great signing by any means, but for a team like the Kings who just aren’t going to be able to sign someone better in FA, it’s not some crippling mistake either. 

Edit: I’ll also add that if the Kings are smart (not likely), they’ll have this deal decrease over time or at least be a straight 22 mil per year, since they won’t feel a cap crunch until the last one to two years of the deal. 

Edited June 28, 2019 by Burt Macklin

[Machinator 32097]

 

[HtownHorn 14468]

1 hour ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Harrison Barnes, at best, is an average basketball player and his numbers say he's below average and actually regressed the last 3 years.  So if the choice is Harrison Barnes for 22.5 million for 4 years or going dumpster diving for values in free agency which you can get for a fraction of the price, I pick B every time.  d20 is correct, this is what poorly run basketball teams do.  I will say his rep is as a good guy around the league and good teammate.  He also did have a career year shooting the 3 but it's still a horrid contract if offered.

Yeah, the only season he's had a positive +/- was Golden State's 1st championship run, when he was the worst player of the Hampton's five. Since leaving Golden State he has not gotten better at all. His defense has gotten worse every season since 2015, and his offense contribution is tied to closely to his 3P shot. $22.5M is way too much for a shitty 3nD guy.

Edited June 28, 2019 by HtownHorn

[TommyGufano 6021]

Lolz. The Hamptons Five didn't exist when HB was in GS

[Machinator 32097]

HB was part of the "death" lineup 1.0. It was Hamptons 5 when KD joined the team.

[Machinator 32097]

 

[d2o 1602]

If he agrees to this, I hope they sign it as fast as possible!!   I expected him to get a much larger offer elsewhere.

[d2o 1602]

25 minutes ago, Machinator said:

 

I kind of thought they might trade him and let someone else waive him but they need the cap room.   His contract only counts for the 1M portion that was guaranteed.   There was almost no chance he was going to be on team at the 18M he was scheduled to get this coming season.

[NowThis 931]

if LAL get KL, how will they sign 11 players with $10mil ? If the avg is $5mil , will they pay a tax on the $45 m in excess? How does it work? They can afford anything but what's stopping them from signing yet another guy at $25mil or so?

[Francisco 2.0 32313]

 

[d2o 1602]

59 minutes ago, NowThis said:

if LAL get KL, how will they sign 11 players with $10mil ? If the avg is $5mil , will they pay a tax on the $45 m in excess? How does it work? They can afford anything but what's stopping them from signing yet another guy at $25mil or so?

The cap is stopping them from signing another 25M guy.  

The other spots are not avg salary spots, they are league min spots (between 800k and 2M depending on how many yr in the league the player has).   The league reimburses for anything over 1.5M for the minimum players.     They will however have one sport for a midlevel exception signing.   That is actually an avg salary spot (about 8M/yr).

the tax doesnt start immediately when a team is over the cap only when they are over the tax threshold which is usually about 20M above the cap.

 

 

Quote

 

Minimum salaries for all seasons of a contract are based on the minimum salary scale in effect when the contract is signed. To determine the salary for each season of a multi-year, minimum salary contract, read diagonally across the chart below. For example, if a five-year veteran signs a three-year contract, his first-year salary will be the Year 1 salary for a five-year veteran; his second-year salary will be the Year 2 salary for a six-year veteran; and his third-year salary will be the Year 3 salary for a seven-year veteran.

Minimum salary scale for contracts signed in 2018-19:

Years in NBA1	Year 1	Year 2	Year 3	Year 4	Year 5
0	$838,464
1	$1,349,383	$1,416,852
2	$1,512,601	$1,588,231	$1,663,861
3	$1,567,007	$1,645,357	$1,723,707	$1,802,057
4	$1,621,415	$1,702,486	$1,783,557	$1,864,628	$1,945,700
5	$1,757,429	$1,845,301	$1,933,172	$2,021,044	$2,108,915
6	$1,893,447	$1,988,119	$2,082,790	$2,177,462	$2,272,134
7	$2,029,463	$2,130,936	$2,232,410	$2,333,883	$2,435,356
8	$2,165,481	$2,273,755	$2,382,030	$2,490,305	$2,598,579
9	$2,176,260	$2,285,073	$2,393,886	$2,502,699	$2,611,513
10+	$2,393,887	$2,513,582	$2,633,277	$2,752,971	$2,872,666

 

 

Edited June 28, 2019 by d2o

[Captain Obvious 516]

25 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

Twitter playing fast and loose with the details?  Shocking.

Kawhi Leonard will speak to the Los Angeles Lakers in the next few days and has made a personal request that only owner Jeanie Buss and Magic Johnson, the team's former president of basketball operations, be involved in the meeting, sources told ESPN's Stephen A. Smith.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27076486/sources-kawhi-requests-magic-buss-meeting

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

Lolol. Yea let's give a guy hundreds of millions without meeting the coach or gm.

[Patrick Bateman 3903]

15 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

Twitter playing fast and loose with the details?  Shocking.

Kawhi Leonard will speak to the Los Angeles Lakers in the next few days and has made a personal request that only owner Jeanie Buss and Magic Johnson, the team's former president of basketball operations, be involved in the meeting, sources told ESPN's Stephen A. Smith.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27076486/sources-kawhi-requests-magic-buss-meeting

Not so fast....

 

[Captain Obvious 516]

17 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Not so fast....

 

So it's agreed then, Uncle Dennis and Lavar Ball will have a meeting about the Lakers offering Tobias Harris the max?

[NowThis 931]

why does the KL entourage want to meet Magic, who is not part of the Lakers org? Why not just demand a meeting with Robert Horry?

[Message Board User 12389]

Edited June 28, 2019 by Message Board User

[Sbbruin 21704]

So $311 mil for Klay and KD, on top of what Curry and Draymond are making?  I get they have Bird rights, but is there not limit to how much you can spend on your own players?

[Message Board User 12389]

9 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

So $311 mil for Klay and KD, on top of what Curry and Draymond are making?  I get they have Bird rights, but is there not limit to how much you can spend on your own players?

No.