Stranger throws 5-year old child from the 3rd floor of Mall of America

[TwiceHorn 31,984]

On 4/16/2019 at 10:42 AM, ajax said:

That's just silly. People are naturally protective of children so of course they're going to have harsher feelings toward this guy than a guy who drives recklessly. You being disturbed at some folks letting out their anger and frustration on a message board makes no sense. Nobody's leading a mob to storm his jail cell.

While it is just a message board and people are just spewing, it is exactly this type of thinking, applied in more serious contexts, that make the US the number one incarcerator of people, both gross and per capita, in the world.

Bad facts make bad law, particularly when you let the bad facts set the standard for the whole system, which we as a society are constantly guilty of doing.

Edited April 17, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[clapclapclap 9,000]

Even more of a legal conundrum if you kill him then learn they were filming an MJ biography.

[Braff Zacklin 13,675]

On 4/16/2019 at 9:25 AM, Pam Cummings said:

It comes off like they don't care about the kid at all and just want an excuse to hurt somebody.

Future law enforcement?

[ajax 2,671]

29 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

While it is just a message board and people are just spewing, it is exactly this type of thinking, applied in more serious contexts, that make the US the number one incarcerator of people, both gross and per capita, in the world.

Bad facts make bad law, particularly when you let the bad facts set the standard for the whole system, which we as a society are constantly guilty of doing.

Not sure what you're trying to say here. What bad facts? The guy confessed. It's not like the cops are trying to railroad an innocent guy.

And I think the crime against murdering children is a good law.

Plus I think we're the #1 incarcerator of people because we have too many victimless "crimes". Throwing a kid three stories is not victimless.

[TwiceHorn 31,984]

5 hours ago, ajax said:

Not sure what you're trying to say here. What bad facts? The guy confessed. It's not like the cops are trying to railroad an innocent guy.

And I think the crime against murdering children is a good law.

Plus I think we're the #1 incarcerator of people because we have too many victimless "crimes". Throwing a kid three stories is not victimless.

Bad facts meaning this whole crime is bad facts.  If you make the laws with only the worst crimes in mind, you're going to have a fucked up system.  And that's what we've got.

It applies to drug crimes too.  Drugs are bad for people.  Drugs kill people.  Drug dealers sell drugs that, on occasion, kill people right in front of the dealer. That's bad.  The DOJ is pursuing the federal death penalty for some of these cases, right this second.  And you know the whole drug policy was fueled using bad facts.

[ajax 2,671]

17 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Bad facts meaning this whole crime is bad facts.  If you make the laws with only the worst crimes in mind, you're going to have a fucked up system.  And that's what we've got.

It applies to drug crimes too.  Drugs are bad for people.  Drugs kill people.  Drug dealers sell drugs that, on occasion, kill people right in front of the dealer. That's bad.  The DOJ is pursuing the federal death penalty for some of these cases, right this second.  And you know the whole drug policy was fueled using bad facts.

If I'm understanding what you're saying, crimes that inflame people's passions can lead to reactive legislation that's bad. I don't disagree with you. For example - the Patriotic Act.

I don't think any of that is at play here. 

If you're against bad legislation, then bring it up when there's bad legislation on the table. Here, we're just upset that a little boy got thrown down 3 stories and is fighting for his life.

Edited April 18, 2019 by ajax

[Jkwellborn 7,006]

Bad facts meaning this whole crime is bad facts.  If you make the laws with only the worst crimes in mind, you're going to have a fucked up system.  And that's what we've got.
It applies to drug crimes too.  Drugs are bad for people.  Drugs kill people.  Drug dealers sell drugs that, on occasion, kill people right in front of the dealer. That's bad.  The DOJ is pursuing the federal death penalty for some of these cases, right this second.  And you know the whole drug policy was fueled using bad facts.

What bad facts are we dealing with in this situation? Some fuckhead threw a kid off of a 3rd story balcony. He didn’t do it to see how high the kid would bounce. Bastard needs a rope around his neck and to be shoved off the same ledge.

[Uncle Nate 2,097]

I’m starting to think that Twice Horn is the new Dallas DA. 

[TwiceHorn 31,984]

What I'm talking about is the vigilante mentality that always shows up whenever we talk about some horrid crime on here.

People get inflamed in the abstract and root for a horrid fate for the defendant. 

While it isn't quite the same thing, it is a similar process that leads to thoughtless, draconian criminal laws.  The proponents of new or enhanced criminal laws always "sell" them by focusing on the worst examples and fomenting outrage.  And then we get stuck with the unintended consequences.

Example:  MADD.  They pretty much singlehandedly created the DWI revenue machine by generating (in some cases legit) outrage over DWI penalties.  DId they probably need to come up some, sure.  Has it slowed the rate of DWI?  Nah.  Has it created a crimino-industrial complex for misdemeanors and low felonies?  Bet your fur.

There are countless other examples.  Right now, "human trafficking" seems like it's getting a bit of attention.  Nothing good is going to come of that, in terms of stopping actual human trafficking.

Edited April 19, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Cheeseweasel 26,439]

On 4/15/2019 at 8:50 AM, TwiceHorn said:

The bolded is basically the legal standard, but I'm not sure it should be.  It was articulated in England nearly 200 years ago when we knew even less (i.e. next to nothing) about psychology and psychiatry.  I'm not sure what the test should be exactly, but I'd like to think that we could come up with something better.

Are you saying he had M'Naghten to do with it?

[TwiceHorn 31,984]

The other thing I left out it that our entire criminal punishment system is now based almost entirely on retribution.  Vengeance.  Deterrence is a non-starter, we never seriously attempted rehabilitation and threw even those attempts out the window 25 years ago.  All that's left is vengeance.

It's not "victimless crimes," it's a heedless, brainless system of punishment.

It's easy to bring vengeance.  It's a lizard-brain reaction.

We need more deliberation.

[fattyflattie 4,640]

This fucker should have been shot onsite; would have saved everyone the trouble and expense.  Or as @Jkwellborn said, get a rope.  Society is not going to be at a loss without him. 

[ajax 2,671]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

The other thing I left out it that our entire criminal punishment system is now based almost entirely on retribution.  Vengeance.  Deterrence is a non-starter, we never seriously attempted rehabilitation and threw even those attempts out the window 25 years ago.  All that's left is vengeance.

It's not "victimless crimes," it's a heedless, brainless system of punishment.

It's easy to bring vengeance.  It's a lizard-brain reaction.

We need more deliberation.

This isn't the thread you're looking for. Start a new thread.

[ztejas 44,114]

5 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

What I'm talking about is the vigilante mentality that always shows up whenever we talk about some horrid crime on here.

People get inflamed in the abstract and root for a horrid fate for the defendant. 

While it isn't quite the same thing, it is a similar process that leads to thoughtless, draconian criminal laws.  The proponents of new or enhanced criminal laws always "sell" them by focusing on the worst examples and fomenting outrage.  And then we get stuck with the unintended consequences.

Example:  MADD.  They pretty much singlehandedly created the DWI revenue machine by generating (in some cases legit) outrage over DWI penalties.  DId they probably need to come up some, sure.  Has it slowed the rate of DWI?  Nah.  Has it created a crimino-industrial complex for misdemeanors and low felonies?  Bet your fur.

There are countless other examples.  Right now, "human trafficking" seems like it's getting a bit of attention.  Nothing good is going to come of that, in terms of stopping actual human trafficking.

First of all, this dude threw a 5 year old off a 3 fucking story balcony. 

Second of all, MADD pretty much "singlehandedly" tanked the rate of drunk driving deaths in this country. 

DWI penalties are a joke in the US compared to almost every other country. 

[ztejas 44,114]

Also disappointed in the board that no one has made a Clapton joke yet. 

[mulletpelini 5,220]

Nobody's right until somebody's wrong

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

Well, if being wrong is right I don't wanna be.. ri... errr if being right is wrong I don't wanna be riii..  You get my point....

[Eastwood 4,394]

Quote

Now, the boy is showing "zero evidence of brain damage" Mac Hammond, a pastor at the family's church, said during an Easter Sunday service. Hammond said the boy underwent a five-hour MRI test, and there aren't signs of brain swelling. 

"No spinal cord injury, no nerve damage, no internal injuries that were life-threatening," Hammond said in a video shared by Minnesota's FOX 9. 

Hammond said a shocked physician compared the boy's injuries to that of a child who fell off of a bicycle. He did say that the boy sustained many broken bones. 

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2019/04/22/boy-thrown-from-mall-of-america-balcony-recovering-pastor-update/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/04/24/boy-thrown-mall-america-showing-no-brain-damage-gofundme-rising/3559426002/

A little good news from this whole situation. Things are looking good for the boy.

Edited April 24, 2019 by Eastwood

[Pato del Muerto 53,330]

No way that a pastor would exaggerate, right?

a shocked doctor?  Falling off a bicycle?  One of God’s miracles I tell ya!  *collection plate goes round again*

how about some quotes from the doctor, fox9 or cbs?

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

On 4/19/2019 at 9:47 AM, TwiceHorn said:

What I'm talking about is the vigilante mentality that always shows up whenever we talk about some horrid crime on here.

People get inflamed in the abstract and root for a horrid fate for the defendant. 

While it isn't quite the same thing, it is a similar process that leads to thoughtless, draconian criminal laws.  The proponents of new or enhanced criminal laws always "sell" them by focusing on the worst examples and fomenting outrage.  And then we get stuck with the unintended consequences.

Example:  MADD.  They pretty much singlehandedly created the DWI revenue machine by generating (in some cases legit) outrage over DWI penalties.  DId they probably need to come up some, sure.  Has it slowed the rate of DWI?  Nah.  Has it created a crimino-industrial complex for misdemeanors and low felonies?  Bet your fur.

There are countless other examples.  Right now, "human trafficking" seems like it's getting a bit of attention.  Nothing good is going to come of that, in terms of stopping actual human trafficking.

It isn't really a vigilante mentality. It's the parental rage that occurs if you see harm coming to your kid. That doesn't really extend to all kids. 

It isn't just reactions to intentional violence either. If you see someone else's kid about to get hit by a bus, you make your best effort to save him, but you don't instinctively throw your own body in front of the bus to do so. For your own kid, you'll instinctively jump in front of the bus and push your kid out of the way before you even really think about the fact that you are probably going to die instead. 

 

[TwiceHorn 31,984]

12 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

It isn't really a vigilante mentality. It's the parental rage that occurs if you see harm coming to your kid. That doesn't really extend to all kids. 

It isn't just reactions to intentional violence either. If you see someone else's kid about to get hit by a bus, you make your best effort to save him, but you don't instinctively throw your own body in front of the bus to do so. For your own kid, you'll instinctively jump in front of the bus and push your kid out of the way before you even really think about the fact that you are probably going to die instead. 

 

Well, it's a bit of both.  You see it in threads here that don't implicate parental rage.  Every vic is someone's child.  So is every perp.

Edited April 24, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[mulletpelini 5,220]

Good for the kid, reconstruct him like Steve Rogers then let him exact revenge on the piece of shit that did it.

[clapclapclap 9,000]

Sentenced to just 19 years in prison, eligible for parole in 12 years as a result of a plea bargain. 

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2019/06/03/emmanuel-aranda-sentenced-to-19-years-for-throwing-boy-off-mall-of-america-balcony/

Ridiculous that you can attempt to brutally murder a small kid, but if they are only permanently maimed instead of killed you get a much lower maximum.  The intent was the same, and the actions effective enough to do great bodily harm.  A victim's life permanently changed and handicapped forever.

 

Edited June 4, 2019 by clapclapclap

[TexArcher 38,816]

12 years?  He ain't gonna make it 12 weeks in prison.

Some musclehead who was hurt by a man when he was a kid is gonna use this guy as a fuckdoll then gut him in an act of personal redemption for whatever he did to get himself locked up.

 

[Lhorn 5,079]

Holy crap. This crime happened a few weeks ago and they’ve already agreed on a plea deal. That seems uncommonly fast. 

[tbone_ 14,406]

Probably because he knew he was proper fucked.

 

I hope the cunt dies. Everyone on the planet would be better off.

 

[Jkwellborn 7,006]

Sentenced to just 19 years in prison, eligible for parole in 12 years as a result of a plea bargain. 
https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2019/06/03/emmanuel-aranda-sentenced-to-19-years-for-throwing-boy-off-mall-of-america-balcony/
Ridiculous that you can attempt to brutally murder a small kid, but if they are only permanently maimed instead of killed you get a much lower maximum.  The intent was the same, and the actions effective enough to do great bodily harm.  A victim's life permanently changed and handicapped forever.
 

There are people in this thread that are for trying to rehab the bastard.

[NoRagrets 1,136]

I hope the little boy ends up okay. That’s all I want to learn from the news articles. Kills me as a father...

[Armybrat 41,314]

10 hours ago, TexArcher said:

12 years?  He ain't gonna make it 12 weeks in prison.

Some musclehead who was hurt by a man when he was a kid is gonna use this guy as a fuckdoll then gut him in an act of personal redemption for whatever he did to get himself locked up.

 

That’s what many of us wish for assholes like that, but does it really happen?

[hopkinsnhorns 533]

10 hours ago, NoRagrets said:

I hope the little boy ends up okay. That’s all I want to learn from the news articles. Kills me as a father...

Since I'm guessing a full recovery is unlikely given the severity of the injuries, I hope he develops mutant powers and becomes a real life Professor X.

[ImissWallyPryor 9,046]

13 hours ago, Lhorn said:

Holy crap. This crime happened a few weeks ago and they’ve already agreed on a plea deal. That seems uncommonly fast. 

I think that’s why they refer to their culture as “Minnesota nice.”

[RDCanecutter 26,852]

Prison got a balcony?

[Knoxtnhorn 6,262]

Something like this happens to one of my kids - biological or classroom - dude's going to get it 80's airport style.  

I'm referring to the guy that hid in the airport phone booth and executed the guy that molested his kid.

[DaggerHorns 3,147]

14 hours ago, TexArcher said:

12 years?  He ain't gonna make it 12 weeks in prison.

Some musclehead who was hurt by a man when he was a kid is gonna use this guy as a fuckdoll then gut him in an act of personal redemption for whatever he did to get himself locked up.

 

Start a gofundme for this?

[Pig Bellmont 8,867]

4 hours ago, Armybrat said:

That’s what many of us wish for assholes like that, but does it really happen?

People in prison for molesting or hurting children generally do not have it easy with other inmates 

[Pig Bellmont 8,867]

On 4/24/2019 at 9:15 PM, mulletpelini said:

Good for the kid, reconstruct him like Steve Rogers then let him exact revenge on the piece of shit that did it.

[futureman 22,664]

 

10 hours ago, Armybrat said:

That’s what many of us wish for assholes like that, but does it really happen?

if you’re just asking about prison justice, did you hear about how whitey bulger met his maker?  and we only heard about that because he was a big, big name.  it happens a lot.