The Surly Mountain Biking Thread

[Braff Zacklin 13299]

Idaho update: two straight days with sunshine and no rain! Not sure where it went but am not eager to find it, either. Been able to work in some long rides this week; legs are so full of lactic acid, they feel (and climb) like sacks of potatoes.

Here's a shot from today's ride, taken from nearly the same spot as the pics in post No. 459. What a difference eight weeks makes.

[Al_4_ISU 12376]

Those trails always look great.  Thanks for posting.

[TwiceHorn 30851]

Sure do, but also make me kind of short of breath.  What's your altitude there?

[Al_4_ISU 12376]

 

On 5/26/2019 at 5:34 PM, KuЯdt said:

Riding muddy trails in Austin is a no-no in most places.  That will result in ruts once the trail dries and ruin it for everyone until it gets flattened out.  Of course there are always a couple of assholes that ride anyway - either due to just being dicks or being ignorant.  So most of us ride road, gravel, or do urban mtb rides when the trails are muddy.

There are actually a few trails that are rideable when wet...even in the pouring rain...but they are about an hour west where the terrain is granite. That is grippy no matter what the condition.  I guess there are even a couple trails I can think of that are mostly exposed limestone so rutting isn't a concern, but got dam that limestone is like ice when wet.  I've done those rides a few times and it is slow going, slip-n-slide, and you will crash a few times.  Can be fun though.

We have a lot of limestone in spots, and I avoid it like the plague after a rain.  Like you said, that shit might as well be ice.  Just nasty.

[Braff Zacklin 13299]

6 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

What's your altitude there?

Most of town is between 4450-4500 feet asl.

The majority of our longer singletrack climbs top out between 6000-6500 feet asl. There are fire roads and some multi-use (motorized) trails that reach the top of surrounding peaks and mountains (between 7200-8900 feet), but I rarely ride them because I'm a wuss and they are in poor shape (loose, dug out, and ridiculously steep in parts).

[Al_4_ISU 12376]

Good ride at the usual spot (Decorah tonight)




Climbing uphill from the creek crossing in the previous photo.




The Pines. One of the coolest parts of this system. There’s a large stand of pine trees on top of the ridge. It’s pretty rare for Iowa. There are about 1.5 miles snaking through this dense stand. Super flowy, and just fun as hell.




This trail follows a dry run through a tight little canyon. It gets dicey when wet, but is fun/beautiful the rest of the time.


Death Valley trailhead. No clue why they call it Death Valley.


River Trail. A flat 1 mile jaunt along the Upper Iowa that serves as the warm up/cool down for most rides.

[Braff Zacklin 13299]

Great pics, Al. Those ghostly pines are the shiznit. Are they still living?

We have a trail called Death Valley, too. Runs all the way to the road and even has room for a couple of cars to park. It climbs parallel to the main trailhead before dissolving into the foothills.

[Al_4_ISU 12376]

In the previous picture, you can see the outer edge of the pine stand.

 

The outer trees have all their needles, but the interior ones only have needles at the top, so I think they’re still alive. It’s entirely possible that it’s a planted stand and they would never grow like that naturally

 

[TwiceHorn 30851]

Checking in on the tire thing.  Got the Rekon 2.6 mounted up front.  Probably going to have to continue pavement rides for another couple of weeks, so I moved the front Crown Gem 2.3 to the rear.  Still has some tread and not losing lugs.

Haven't ridden yet, but the Rekon 2.6 just doesn't look that jumbo, but it hasn't spread out any.  I shall report back later.  i have seen that Maxxis tires do come up a hair short of their advertised width, in many cases, while the Crown Gems are pretty wide in the limited reviews I have seen.  That plus the age of the tires, probably makes it an unfair comparison at this point.  I used CO2 to mount both of them, but I think the Rekon would have mounted with a hand pump.

Pro tip.  Do not let tubeless tires sit deflated for a long period of time.  The sealant gets tacky/gummy and the bead sticks to the rim and the tire sticks to itself.  It's an unholy mess.  This may be a blinding glimpse of the obvious, but if it isn't, take heed.  Probably even applies if they aren't deflated, but the sealant isn't moving around in the tire.

Edited June 1, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[yoshi 137]

Rode at the Wichita Mountains by Lawton, OK yesterday.    Was a very difficult ride.   It's like one long rock garden.   You're just spending the whole time bouncing off and bashing your cranks into rocks.    Vegetation is really thick at this point too and I had ticks all over me.   Had higher hopes for that place.   Some of the easier trails look like they would be OK in later winter/early spring before everything starts growing and gets too thick. 

[Al_4_ISU 12376]

Looks pretty anyhow

[yoshi 137]

Yeah, this place has a ton of potential if they would just come in and do some maintenance on the trails.

[TwiceHorn 30851]

Is it a state park?  I suppose it's hard to keep a trail steward and crew on the job.  Then again, pretty sure the weather has been shitty up there, so maybe they're just behind.  Most of the Dallas trails are pretty overgrown because they're just struggling to keep them open, much less "manicured."

I'm a relative newb and a wuss but non-stop rock gardens just sound like a beating.  We only have a few short stretches of them around here and that's about enough for me.

[Loco 3752]

damn these guys can ride

[yoshi 137]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Is it a state park?  I suppose it's hard to keep a trail steward and crew on the job.  Then again, pretty sure the weather has been shitty up there, so maybe they're just behind.  Most of the Dallas trails are pretty overgrown because they're just struggling to keep them open, much less "manicured."

I'm a relative newb and a wuss but non-stop rock gardens just sound like a beating.  We only have a few short stretches of them around here and that's about enough for me.

A big portion of the Wichita Mountains are a US wildlife refuge, but the mountain bike trails are on the other side of the fence from the refuge and are just part of the lake which is maintained by the city of Lawton.   I'm sure that any maintenance that gets done is probably by bike clubs in the area.    But yeah, the ton of rain that we've had in Oklahoma has made things grow out of control at the moment.    

BTW,  I'm new to this thread, but I hope to add to it in the future.   I've been out of mountain biking for a while mostly to being lazy, but I'm getting back into it.   I found a pretty good deal on a Trek Top Fuel frame on ebay a couple of months back and built that up with parts off my old Stumpjumper.    I'm still about 10 years back in mountain bike technology.   Would be great to get a newer bike, but holy crap, bike prices are getting crazy.  

I'm in Oklahoma City and will post pics from spots I hit around the state.    

 

 

[TwiceHorn 30851]

If you got a new frame, you're probably about up to date.  Geometry and dropper posts are all that's really new, and I guess 1x if you're down for it.  Looks like you have some nice stuff by your levers.

[yoshi 137]

50 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

If you got a new frame, you're probably about up to date.  Geometry and dropper posts are all that's really new, and I guess 1x if you're down for it.  Looks like you have some nice stuff by your levers.

The frame is actually a 2007.   It's my first full suspension frame.   My stumpjumper which I just switched most of these parts over from was a hardtail.  

 

[Al_4_ISU 12376]

I’d have to think that Oklahoma would have some great mountain biking in the Ozarks/Ouchitas

[yoshi 137]

Lots of badass mountain biking in northwest Arkansas.   About 3.5 hours from me.   I hope to get over there this summer.

[Al_4_ISU 12376]

Lots of badass mountain biking in northwest Arkansas.   About 3.5 hours from me.   I hope to get over there this summer.

I was hiking there in March and noticed a few trailheads for it. Whitaker Point area. There’s a group from up here that goes down that way every other year or so.

[TwiceHorn 30851]

4 hours ago, yoshi said:

The frame is actually a 2007.   It's my first full suspension frame.   My stumpjumper which I just switched most of these parts over from was a hardtail.  

 

Still 26" then?  I dunno, I think a lot of the new hype is hype.  The various newfangled shit has advantages, but also drawbacks.  I'd probably ride your old stuff to death and then get something newfangled when you have no choice.

One thing that seems to be true, though, is that full sus bikes pedal and climb now better than they ever have due to apparent mastery of frame kinematics.  Most of the milder designs (non downhill oriented) don't seem to need a shock lockout anymore.

[yoshi 137]

Yep, just a 26.   When the day comes that I get a new bike, I'd like a 27.5.   Seems like the perfect size.

[KuЯdt 248]

Took a detour off my leisurely Sunday ride to check out the new paved trail along SH 45SW in far south Austin. There is nothing out there at all except for the road, so it's pretty peaceful and scenic. Will be a nice option for days when the trails are too muddy to ride.



They have sings along the trail describing the local environment like this one about the wildlife (no mention of Circle C cougs)





I startled this ol' girl a little.

[KuЯdt 248]

Rode at the Wichita Mountains by Lawton, OK yesterday.    Was a very difficult ride.   It's like one long rock garden.   You're just spending the whole time bouncing off and bashing your cranks into rocks.    Vegetation is really thick at this point too and I had ticks all over me.   Had higher hopes for that place.   Some of the easier trails look like they would be OK in later winter/early spring before everything starts growing and gets too thick. 

I've sort of wondered what that area looks like ever since reading about Quanah Parker. I believe his gravesite is somewhere near Lawton.

[yoshi 137]

2 hours ago, KuЯdt said:

I've sort of wondered what that area looks like ever since reading about Quanah Parker. I believe his gravesite is somewhere near Lawton.

Yep, Quanah Parker and Geronimo are both buried at Fort Sill which is right there in the Wichita Mountains at Lawton.  That was Apache and Comanche territory. 

[TwiceHorn 30851]

Hit Oak Cliff Nature Preserve yesterday and had a nice ride although I was fairly ill-prepared for a humid 90+..  Been seeing a lot of whiptail lizards out there, but they're fast, no pix.  I did see a horned lizard of some description scurry out of my path, so that was cool.

Because I had just mounted the new 2.6, I left it at 30psi.  Haha, I thought I was going to the moon on a few of the roots I hit.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4962]

On 6/1/2019 at 7:27 AM, Al_4_ISU said:

In the previous picture, you can see the outer edge of the pine stand.

 

The outer trees have all their needles, but the interior ones only have needles at the top, so I think they’re still alive. It’s entirely possible that it’s a planted stand and they would never grow like that naturally

 

There are plenty of reasons they would grow like that naturally. An even aged stand is not at all unusual in nature, but that does not preclude their being planted. If they were planted, however, you would probably notice the rows. Even many forestry practices practiced mostly by the USFS that do not rely on planting for regeneration produce even aged stands and the characteristics you see. They are all designed to mimicked natural ecology.

[Braff Zacklin 13299]

Briefly had a companion for today's ride. Turned up on the trail and jogged some 20 yards in front of me for about a quarter mile before stepping aside. Managed to snap a few shots as I pulled away.

Luckily for him, no roadrunners in Idaho.

[TwiceHorn 30851]

Took me a sec.  The most amazing animal encounter I've had is a bobcat jumped on the trail ahead of me and I chased it for about 30-40 yards before it detoured off into the brush.  This on a trail spang in the middle of the apartment hell that is Addison, Texas and bordered on the north by the George Bush Tollroad.  Same trail where I broke myself.

[Braff Zacklin 13299]

That's cool, Twice. Definitely not a place you expect to see a bobcat. We've got them around here, but as with most feral felines, they are rarely seen.

I know coyotes are rather quotidian, but it was unusual how it stayed so close and didn't bolt. Even after I went by, it went about its business as if I had never been there.

Flushed a couple of large, velvety bucks (mule deer) on Friday's ride, but they had no intention of hanging around for a picture and skeedaddled up and over a ridge like it was downhill.

I'd say my craziest animal encounters here in Idaho have been with moose. Startled a cow and her calf one spring ride a couple of years back--they darted out from brush and onto the trail only yards in front of me before veering left toward the creek. Had a bull square up and stare on a group of us once, as well, but fortunately have never been trampled or even charged.

Another friend did get charged and knocked off his bike in 2015 by a cow, but he managed to get to his feet and put a tree between himself and the moose before she lost interest and circled back to her calf.

[TwiceHorn 30851]

We do have coyotes and bobcats kind of all over in Dallas.  Anywhere there's some type of greenbelt, there's one or the other or both.  There have been reported (and filmed) coyote attacks in Frisco.  https://patch.com/texas/mckinney-frisco/coyote-supposedly-linked-numerous-attacks-removed-frisco

This happened on the paved portion of a local trail, River Legacy Park: 

 

[Al_4_ISU 12376]

We have a crap ton of coyotes and an increasing bobcat population.  I've only seen a cat once.  That's really cool to get that close to a yote, Braff.  Around here, they stay as far away from people as possible, because that historically ends in a volley of lead.

Awesome ride tonight.  Great opportunity to reflect how far I've come with all of this.  I was just sitting on my ass pedaling up shit I walked a year ago.

[TwiceHorn 30851]

It almost seems like if we aren't actively trying to exterminate wildlife and the environment, it's ready to come right back and get in our face.  Seem to be increasing cougar and bobcat sightings and encounters even in places they were thought to be extirpated.  Same with bears and wolves.

This isn't intended to be a political opinion, but as an outdoor type for most of my life, my sense is that nature as a whole is much "greater" than man, and we are kind of a pimple on the ass of creation.

Edited June 4, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Al_4_ISU 12376]

It almost seems like if we aren't actively trying to exterminate wildlife and the environment, it's ready to come right back and get in our face.  Seem to be increasing cougar and bobcat sightings and encounters even in places they were thought to be extirpated.  Same with bears and wolves.

Coyotes actually have larger litters when heavily hunted.

30 years ago they were in about half the lower 48. Now they’re everywhere, and in increasingly urban areas.

Wild shit. I think they’re bad ass creatures, and being as we raised feeder hogs, they were never capable of being a pest to my family.

[TwiceHorn 30851]

Terrible.  Drove 45 minutes up to McKinney to ride Erwin Park and rear tire was flat.  I checked it before I left and it had held air since Saturday morning through one ride.  But I did let some air out so I guess I tweaked the valve just right.  Tried tightening the nut and CO2ing, but didn't hold.  Had a tube but didn't want to screw with it. 

Got home, pumped it up and swabbed it with soapy water, just leaking from the stem, slow.  Loosened and tightened and it stopped. Dammitalltohell.Probably too damn hot for a new trail, anyway.

Edited June 4, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Braff Zacklin 13299]

Furk, that sucks, Twice. What sealant did you use? Are you confident in your tape job? And was the valve installed properly (with all gaskets or o-rings, if applicable)?

I'm just about to head out for my daily ride. Hope my luck's better.

[TwiceHorn 30851]

4 hours ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Furk, that sucks, Twice. What sealant did you use? Are you confident in your tape job? And was the valve installed properly (with all gaskets or o-rings, if applicable)?

I'm just about to head out for my daily ride. Hope my luck's better.

Well, its the same as the front one, which has held through two tires since March or April.  I had some qualms when I first did it about the tape sticking, but after spending a few months under pressure, it looked pretty good when I had the tires off Saturday (nice and pushed down, right up against the holes in the rim).  I may have jiggled the valve some when on-offing the tires.  Seemed like it was fairly tight.  It has held all afternoon.

One thing I didn't do as much of Saturday when I moved the tires back and forth is spinning and bouncing them.  Other than the ride.  I half expected to lose air on the ride, but didn't and figured that would be enough.

Edited June 4, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 30851]

Bah, it's held air ever since.  Just for shits n giggles, I have been pumping up to 30+, letting it down to 20ish, back up. No problems.  Had a shit little road ride yesterday waiting for trails to dry.  Hot and sunny all day, nothing opened, then probably a half inch shower at 830.  Fuuuuurrrrrrrk this.

[TwiceHorn 30851]

Well, I went back and conquered Frisco NW Community Park.  Breezier day than last time, so didn't get the hnnnnggg feeling I had last time.  Starts of with some sneaky sustained, but not steep or technical, climbing where all of a sudden you realize you're out of breath.  At one point I stopped in a wooded section and that asthmatic claustrophobia thing hit.  Wound up unbuckling my helmet and the chest strap on my hydropack it was momentarily so uncomfortable.  Got back moving again and it passed.

The deeply cut in trails are still a bit of a challenge, kind of force you to carry more speed/momentum than you might like on a new trail.  Also kind of wild in those grasslands where it's tall, you just cannot tell what the trail is doing very far ahead because of the grass.  It's much worse that way than your typical wooded patch.

Because it's one of just three trails open in the metro, I was a bit surprised to find it super dry with kitty litter on top.  I realized I can't evaluate my new front tire very well because it's been probably 9-10 months since I rode that kind of dirt.  OCNP last weekend was hero dirt.

[Al_4_ISU 12376]

I’ll be riding in about an hour. It’s fucking perfect out. 86 degrees, low (relatively) humidity, not a cloud in the sky. Trails are dry. Giddy up

 

[wd40 1976]

so Spider Mtn is pretty cool, but the have a lot of trail still to build.  just 4 trails, but they're fun.  I think my favorite is the double black.  there's really only one scary rock garden on it, but it's the steepest trail out there which levels the playing field for me to keep up with the moto guys I was riding with.  they're much better at looking far down the trail and picking the fasted lines into the turns.  I'll get there, some day.  I too have a lot of work to do.

sorry, song's been in my head for a week, but it seemed appropriate.

 

[TwiceHorn 30851]

So, a couple weeks back, I put my bike in the shop because it was shifting like shit and I suspected a bent derailleur hanger.  Sure enough, it was bent a little bit.  In checking it out, they noticed a click and opened up and greased the bottom bracket.  And told me it was on the way out, most likely.

A good while ago, I had noticed the clicking, took it to Performance where I bought it (yeah I know they suck) and watched the guy remove the cranks and grease it.  I then attributed it to seatpost or saddle rail and ignored it.

Anyway, as the bike is a year old and hasn't been ridden for six months of that year due to weather and me breaking myself, I thought that was not long for a bottom bracket to last.  So I contacted FSA and they might warrant it after seeing some pix.  Granted most of my bikes over the years have been square taper (and whatever Schwinn used), but I have never had a BB fail before.  The guys at the shop said "well, it's a wear item" and I get that, but JFC.  I see on various fora that a year is not unheard of. What should be my expectations here?  Fitty bux is fitty bux.

[Braff Zacklin 13299]

Bottom brackets are definitely wear-and-tear items, but unless you've put 5K-10K miles on yours, it shouldn't be blowing up after just one year. Properly installed, greased, protected, cared for etc., you should get several years out of it (much like a cassette).

Is the BB on your bike press fit or threaded with external cups? If it's the latter, and assuming they are the 68mm-73mm English standard, my suggestion would save yourself some money and buy one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-Alivio-Mountain-Bicycle-Bracket/dp/B00OMDQI1G/

Or if you feel like splurging or just prefer black:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YMGQ4JY/

And then this tool or one of its cheap Chinese clones:

https://www.amazon.com/Park-Tool-BBT-9-Bottom-Bracket/dp/B000C12BMW/

My squishy has a PF BB; my hardtail has an English threaded. I despise PF bottom brackets and will avoid buying a frame with one in the future.

I'd also ask some questions to make sure the bearings on the existing BB are shot/going before replacing (versus just needing to be removed and cleaned), but this is turning into a fricken Wiki entry so I'll shaddap.

 

 

[TwiceHorn 30851]

2 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Bottom brackets are definitely wear-and-tear items, but unless you've put 5K-10K miles on yours, it shouldn't be blowing up after just one year. Properly installed, greased, protected, cared for etc., you should get several years out of it (much like a cassette).

Is the BB on your bike press fit or threaded with external cups? If it's the latter, and assuming they are the 68mm-73mm English standard, my suggestion would save yourself some money and buy one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-Alivio-Mountain-Bicycle-Bracket/dp/B00OMDQI1G/

Or if you feel like splurging or just prefer black:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YMGQ4JY/

And then this tool or one of its cheap Chinese clones:

https://www.amazon.com/Park-Tool-BBT-9-Bottom-Bracket/dp/B000C12BMW/

My squishy has a PF BB; my hardtail has an English threaded. I despise PF bottom brackets and will avoid buying a frame with one in the future.

I'd also ask some questions to make sure the bearings on the existing BB are shot/going before replacing (versus just needing to be removed and cleaned), but this is turning into a fricken Wiki entry so I'll shaddap.

 

 

I appreciate the disquisition.  It is threaded external.  And that size.  Hmm.

[Braff Zacklin 13299]

If you're already familiar with pulling cranks (and have the appropriate tools), I'd strongly recommend watching some YouTube videos and learning to do your own wrenching, especially once your general warranty has expired.

Bike shop mechanics know more than I ever will, and they are infinitely faster and more efficient, but too many of them cut corners to get the bike out so they can get the next one in.

[TwiceHorn 30851]

10 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

If you're already familiar with pulling cranks (and have the appropriate tools), I'd strongly recommend watching some YouTube videos and learning to do your own wrenching, especially once your general warranty has expired.

Bike shop mechanics know more than I ever will, and they are infinitely faster and more efficient, but too many of them cut corners to get the bike out so they can get the next one in.

Yeah, I trust these guys, or the guy, Brett, implicitly.  He's probably the best mechanic in the Metroplex, for reference.  Dallasbikeworks.com.

And no I don't have a crank wrench or a BB wrench.

[Braff Zacklin 13299]

To pull old-fashioned Hollowtech II Shimano cranks, you just need a 5mm allen key/wrench to tighten/loosen the pinch bolts on the non-drive side.

The Park BB tool I linked above is a multi-tasker. In addition to using one end to loosen the cups, the other end has a rubber dial that you use to tighten or remove the pre-load nut or whatever it's called (only hand tighten this!).

Performance doesn't have the best reputation, so it's possible your BB blew up because it wasn't installed correctly (too much pre-load, not enough pre-load, not enough grease, etc.). Or maybe you did something naughty to it. Or it could just be bad luck/defective. :shrug:

[TwiceHorn 30851]

6 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

To pull old-fashioned Hollowtech II Shimano cranks, you just need a 5mm allen key/wrench to tighten/loosen the pinch bolts on the non-drive side.

The Park BB tool I linked above is a multi-tasker. In addition to using one end to loosen the cups, the other end has a rubber dial that you use to tighten or remove the pre-load nut or whatever it's called (only hand tighten this!).

Performance doesn't have the best reputation, so it's possible your BB blew up because it wasn't installed correctly (too much pre-load, not enough pre-load, not enough grease, etc.). Or maybe you did something naughty to it. Or it could just be bad luck/defective. :shrug:

I'm not very naughty with my bike, other than being a kinda fat fuck. No wet creek crossings, no mud slogs. No pressure washing. I kind of imagine it came installed from the factory, but may be wrong there.  I trust this place to do it right and face the shell if need be.

[Braff Zacklin 13299]

Right on. A good wrench is one of life's simple pleasures, like an honest plumber or electrician.

Water crossings are fine. Water in general is OK, just don't force it in there (like a pressure washer or the nozzle from your garden hose). 

[Al_4_ISU 12376]

Anyone have a good tip about getting more comfortable with tight tree passages?

I've been riding a lot of new trails (at my usual spot) this past week that have a ton of tight tree passages.  There's actually a couple where the trees are closer than my handlebars and I have to go around, but usually you might have 2-4" total clearance.  I've dumped a couple times and ripped my hand up getting caught in there.  Is it the kind of thing that you just get better at by doing it, and eventually you instinctively learn to judge that distance?