The Surly Mountain Biking Thread

[TwiceHorn 31436]

Catching a bar end on a tree gate can fuck you up pretty good.  How wide are your bars?  My new bike has 780mm bars, which is the new thing, and there are several tree gates that wide or a little less.

The trick is that you can effectively narrow your bars by turning quickly, that is point your bar end at the tree  real quick right before you get to it and pull it right back once you are past it.  Your bike doesn't respond to steering inputs that quick without some lean, so it won't send you off into the bushes, but you don't wan't your front wheel to go 90 degrees either. 

The key to making it through is go slow, as you gain confidence, you can go faster.  Same if you just want to clear the trees by 0.5" each side.

Ii had gained some confidence with the wide bars that is all gone now.

 

Edited June 11, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Al_4_ISU 12447]

Thanks. I have no clue on my bar width, so I’ll have to check on it.

The one that caught me was right out of a tight, steep climb, so thankfully I was going slow. I hadn’t recovered my faculties though, and it was my first time on that chunk of trail, so I didn’t expect it and got caught off guard.

It’s making me a little skittish, but I’m seeking the tree gates out and getting slightly more comfortable.

[KuЯdt 248]

so Spider Mtn is pretty cool, but the have a lot of trail still to build.  just 4 trails, but they're fun.  I think my favorite is the double black.  there's really only one scary rock garden on it, but it's the steepest trail out there which levels the playing field for me to keep up with the moto guys I was riding with.  they're much better at looking far down the trail and picking the fasted lines into the turns.  I'll get there, some day.  I too have a lot of work to do.
sorry, song's been in my head for a week, but it seemed appropriate.
 

Nice vid.

So I see they are building a new trail with some wooden features. There is a wall ride that looks a bit odd to me from the pictures. I've ridden a couple of these before, but not quite like this one.

Here is a pic:



The transition from the lower part to the "wall" section looks rather abrupt. Not sure if you're supposed to come off the dirt straight into the wall or what.

Then exiting the wall:



Maybe it's the angle of the pic but that looks kinda sketchy to me. Gonna have to go check it out when it's complete.


Oh, and this is what leads into it:

[TwiceHorn 31436]

7 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Thanks. I have no clue on my bar width, so I’ll have to check on it.

The one that caught me was right out of a tight, steep climb, so thankfully I was going slow. I hadn’t recovered my faculties though, and it was my first time on that chunk of trail, so I didn’t expect it and got caught off guard.

It’s making me a little skittish, but I’m seeking the tree gates out and getting slightly more comfortable.

Yeah, they can be an extra bitch if you are doing something else, like climbing or descending or negotiating roots at the bottom of the gate.  Currently, I come to a screeching halt before anything I am unsure of.  I tell people not to ride behind me on trails with many gates.

There's a trail with some fairly narrow gates (wider than bar width, but still) on short little rooty climbs that you can't really stop for because of the incline.  That trail hasn't dried out in months, so I don't have to worry about it.

Edited June 12, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31436]

1 minute ago, KuЯdt said:

Nice vid.

So I see they are building a new trail with some wooden features. There is a wall ride that looks a bit odd to me from the pictures. I've ridden a couple of these before, but not quite like this one.

Here is a pic:



The transition from the lower part to the "wall" section looks rather abrupt. Not sure if you're supposed to come off the dirt straight into the wall or what.

Then exiting the wall:



Maybe it's the angle of the pic but that looks kinda sketchy to me. Gonna have to go check it out when it's complete.


Oh, and this is what leads into it:


 

Looks like they are missing some berm both before and after that.

[KuЯdt 248]

Anyone have a good tip about getting more comfortable with tight tree passages?
I've been riding a lot of new trails (at my usual spot) this past week that have a ton of tight tree passages.  There's actually a couple where the trees are closer than my handlebars and I have to go around, but usually you might have 2-4" total clearance.  I've dumped a couple times and ripped my hand up getting caught in there.  Is it the kind of thing that you just get better at by doing it, and eventually you instinctively learn to judge that distance?

I've got no advice other than get a feel for the width of your bars and ride through the ones you think you can fit.
I am no fan of tree gates, though I know some people like them and think they're fun. To each their own.

[Al_4_ISU 12447]

Yeah, they can be an extra bitch if you are doing something else, like climbing or descending or negotiating roots at the bottom of the gate.  Currently, I come to a screeching halt before anything I am unsure of.  I tell people not to ride behind me on trails with many gates.
There's a trail with some fairly narrow gates (wider than bar width, but still) on short little rooty climbs that you can't really stop for because of the incline.  That trail hasn't dried out in months, so I don't have to worry about it.

It seems like 2/3rds of our gates have serious roots either leading into them or actually in the middle of the gate.

I’ve been dismounting when unsure as well.

[Al_4_ISU 12447]

I've got no advice other than get a feel for the width of your bars and ride through the ones you think you can fit.
I am no fan of tree gates, though I know some people like them and think they're fun. To each their own.

I don’t like them either, but some of our better trails in terms of flow and length are littered with them.

[TwiceHorn 31436]

3 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

 

It seems like 2/3rds of our gates have serious roots either leading into them or actually in the middle of the gate.

I’ve been dismounting when unsure as well.

Maybe one thing to consider.  I don't dismount.  I will walk or "balance bike" through them mounted, turn my bars if needed, or just see how tight they really are.  So that's the extreme of going slow.  You can maybe pick it up a little as you get comfortable.

Edited June 12, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Braff Zacklin 13552]

5 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Anyone have a good tip about getting more comfortable with tight tree passages?

Stare through the gap rather than at the gap. In some cases, you might need/be able to get one end of the bars through the gap before the other end. Guys who can manual are really good at this, but that's a skillset I lack.

Wider bars are vogue, and they are definitely superior to the 580 mm narrow bars of yesteryear, but I'm with Twice in that you can have too much of a good thing, so go with what is comfortable for you.

For me, 700 mm-720 mm was the most natural, but a set of carbon bars I purchased three years ago were 740 mm. I clipped my share of trees making the transition, but I didn't want to cut them down, so that is now the standard for both of my bikes. I absolutely will not be going any wider.

[Braff Zacklin 13552]

One addendum to the subject of wider bars:

True, they give you more leverage and fine control. However, they also give anything you hit more leverage.

Glad you weren't too dinged up, Al. Getting dumped on a gate or unseen branch is something every rider experiences.

[TwiceHorn 31436]

9 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Stare through the gap rather than at the gap. In some cases, you might need/be able to get one end of the bars through the gap before the other end. Guys who can manual are really good at this, but that's a skillset I lack.

Wider bars are vogue, and they are definitely superior to the 580 mm narrow bars of yesteryear, but I'm with Twice in that you can have too much of a good thing, so go with what is comfortable for you.

For me, 700 mm-720 mm was the most natural, but a set of carbon bars I purchased three years ago were 740 mm. I clipped my share of trees making the transition, but I didn't want to cut them down, so that is now the standard for both of my bikes. I absolutely will not be going any wider.

Yes indeed.  Left that out, but like any obstacle you don't want to hit, dont stare it down.  I can't manual for crap, but I can turn the bars real quick to get through some narrower gates.  It's easy(er) to pick up when the line between the gates isn't transverse to the trail, that is, the trees are staggered a bit as they mostly are in the real world.  It feels lke you are turning into the gate then turning right back out of it and your bar ends miss the trees.

I don't downhill enough to worry about whatever benefit wide bars offer there and I remain kind of annoyed with my steering at lower speeds (very floppy, if not twitchy), which the bars contribute to to some degree.  But I do like the "openness" in my chest and the hand position that results from the wide bars.  Could probably achieve the same with 760-740, but for now I'm leaving them be.

[Al_4_ISU 12447]

I took the day off to golf in my wife’s work golf outing. That isn’t till 9:30, so I got to squeeze in an early morning ride. I was riding by 6:30. Pretty neat light conditions that time of day.

[TwiceHorn 31436]

Nice pix, Al.  That same trail? I think I would really enjoy that.  Trails are drying out here, several open despite the rain and high winds Sunday.  But bike shop has my bike futzing with the BB warranty issue.  So I'm home getting fat and out of breath.

[Al_4_ISU 12447]

Nice pix, Al.  That same trail? I think I would really enjoy that.  Trails are drying out here, several open despite the rain and high winds Sunday.  But bike shop has my bike futzing with the BB warranty issue.  So I'm home getting fat and out of breath.

Same series of trails. There’s about 20 miles of trail in the Decorah system. I’m sure I’ve posted pics from these trails


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shnsajax 3591]

On 5/31/2019 at 2:00 PM, Braff Zacklin said:

Most of town is between 4450-4500 feet asl.

The majority of our longer singletrack climbs top out between 6000-6500 feet asl. There are fire roads and some multi-use (motorized) trails that reach the top of surrounding peaks and mountains (between 7200-8900 feet), but I rarely ride them because I'm a wuss and they are in poor shape (loose, dug out, and ridiculously steep in parts).

I just got back from McCall, forgot how much I liked Ponderosa State Park

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

Anyone have opinions on riding at pedernales St park?  Worth it?

[KuЯdt 248]

21 hours ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Anyone have opinions on riding at pedernales St park?  Worth it?

Yes, it's one of my favorite places to ride near Austin.  I usually ride some combo of the horse trail + juniper ridge + madrone.  you can put together some nice 20+ mile loops out there with decent elevation gain as well.

[Al_4_ISU 12447]

Good ride this morning, and I added in some new trails. Kicked my ass. Still working the tree gates hard, and seeing improvement.

This one pisses me off though:

There’s about a foot of drop on the other side of those roots and it’s more of a side slope than it looks. I’ll get there.

This trail (same area as I usually ride) went through some interesting tree stands and had some serious up/down. It clearly gets less traffic as well.

[KuЯdt 248]

I checked out a new to me trail I heard about recently out in Dripping Springs. It was built and is maintained by the local high school mountain bike team, which I think is super cool. I would have loved to have had that option when in high school.

The trail is only 5.4 miles, but is pretty fun. Fast and flowy in parts with some ledges and creek crossings. Did a couple laps and enjoyed it.

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

That's pretty sweet.  And yea wished they had that when I was in school.  Think about kicking them a few bucks if they have a way to do that.  

[Braff Zacklin 13552]

Great to see everyone out riding!

Spent the last week visiting the parents in San Antonio. This past Sunday, a Shag/Surly member was kind enough to wake up well before the crack of dawn and drive all the way down from Austin so we could ride at Government Canyon, which is less than 10 miles from where my parents live. He even brought an extra bike and helmet that I could stankify.

I repaid his generosity by showing up 30 minutes late and not bringing any beer. Naturally.

Once we hit the trails, it immediately became obvious to me that he had given himself every advantage. After all, what is better on technical terrain than a single-speeder? And who needs suspension for rocks? Yet he kept the single-speed hardtail with 80mm of travel for himself and stuck me with a plush 1x Kona Process with over 6 inches of movement front and back.

Fortunately, he realized his mistake after we had labored up some two miles of what seemed like an endless series of steps and traps. Once the bungie cord was attached, however, I found myself having little trouble keeping up, although I still perceived an occasional advantage in his favor. I negated these with an expert dab of the brakes.

By the time we had completed our circuit, I was feeling so refreshed, I suggested another lap. He responded that he needed to get home in time for his children's graduation. I congratulated him for their achievement, but he pointed out that they were still in middle school. The slight seemed unjust.

Seriously, I had a wonderful (yet humbling) day. Not only was it a first riding trail in Texas, it was a first meeting someone from Shag/Surly. I'll leave it up to him to "out" himself, but if the opportunity to ride with him arises, definitely take it as he is good company and a great host.

Just try to show up on time ... and maybe buy beer the night before.

Also--and perhaps most importantly--we managed not to destroy our derailleurs in the caliche dirt.

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

Yea the "Backcountry" trails at government canyon are pretty gnarly.  The front country trails are nice and tame.   I think the front country loop is like 5 miles.  It's nice to do one lap, the another backwards. 

[Al_4_ISU 12447]

I hiked the Govt Canyon backcountry the morning of the Alamo Bowl. That would be some gnarly riding.

[TwiceHorn 31436]

On 6/23/2019 at 1:30 PM, KuЯdt said:

I checked out a new to me trail I heard about recently out in Dripping Springs. It was built and is maintained by the local high school mountain bike team, which I think is super cool. I would have loved to have had that option when in high school.

The trail is only 5.4 miles, but is pretty fun. Fast and flowy in parts with some ledges and creek crossings. Did a couple laps and enjoyed it.

What's the riding direction on those features?  I wouldn't mind descending the rocks, but I would probably hate to climb them.  And f that little bridge if you have to go up onto it.  And, even if you get to drop off it, that root is endo-city.  Better launch!

I got in first trail ride today in a couple of weeks.  Part weather and part having my BB replaced.  FSA warranted the BB, by the way, good on them!

I rode a paved trail yesterday without much shade.  96 heat index.  Urk.  Today was shady, overcast, but a little still and humid and the trail was a bit mushier than hero dirt.  Lots of mosquitos, some swampy areas, and a couple with ovegrown grass that just shredded my ankles.  Only did about 4 miles on each ride, for different reasons.

Any thoughts on riding skinnies?  I have done some straight, short, narrow ones, but this trail has a new one that's pretty long, has turns, starts wide, but gets narrower.  It's only about a foot off the ground, but it's in the trees and shit so you can't go off it clean, necessarily.

Edited June 27, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31436]

On 6/26/2019 at 12:30 PM, Braff Zacklin said:

Great to see everyone out riding!

Spent the last week visiting the parents in San Antonio. This past Sunday, a Shag/Surly member was kind enough to wake up well before the crack of dawn and drive all the way down from Austin so we could ride at Government Canyon, which is less than 10 miles from where my parents live. He even brought an extra bike and helmet that I could stankify.

I repaid his generosity by showing up 30 minutes late and not bringing any beer. Naturally.

Once we hit the trails, it immediately became obvious to me that he had given himself every advantage. After all, what is better on technical terrain than a single-speeder? And who needs suspension for rocks? Yet he kept the single-speed hardtail with 80mm of travel for himself and stuck me with a plush 1x Kona Process with over 6 inches of movement front and back.

Fortunately, he realized his mistake after we had labored up some two miles of what seemed like an endless series of steps and traps. Once the bungie cord was attached, however, I found myself having little trouble keeping up, although I still perceived an occasional advantage in his favor. I negated these with an expert dab of the brakes.

By the time we had completed our circuit, I was feeling so refreshed, I suggested another lap. He responded that he needed to get home in time for his children's graduation. I congratulated him for their achievement, but he pointed out that they were still in middle school. The slight seemed unjust.

Seriously, I had a wonderful (yet humbling) day. Not only was it a first riding trail in Texas, it was a first meeting someone from Shag/Surly. I'll leave it up to him to "out" himself, but if the opportunity to ride with him arises, definitely take it as he is good company and a great host.

Just try to show up on time ... and maybe buy beer the night before.

Also--and perhaps most importantly--we managed not to destroy our derailleurs in the caliche dirt.

But did he make a video with kickass music?

[Braff Zacklin 13552]

4 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

But did he make a video with kickass music?

If someone had planned to make a video, I'm sure he would've declined, noting that a portrait painter or daguerreotype might be more appropriate for my "speed."

[TwiceHorn 31436]

3 hours ago, Braff Zacklin said:

If someone had planned to make a video, I'm sure he would've declined, noting that a portrait painter or daguerreotype might be more appropriate for my "speed."

I can only guess that I would have been walking behind both of you for great stretches of that.

[Braff Zacklin 13552]

I wasn't used to having to burst-burst-burst through so much tech. Our trails have technical sections, but what we rode on Sunday was a technical trail. And we only rode 2.5 miles of it due to a closure, otherwise, it would've gone on for another 1.5 miles.

Just need to lose more weight. It makes such a tremendous difference on steep or tech.

I want a rematch. LoL

[KuЯdt 248]

20 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

What's the riding direction on those features?  I wouldn't mind descending the rocks, but I would probably hate to climb them.  And f that little bridge if you have to go up onto it.  And, even if you get to drop off it, that root is endo-city.  Better launch!

 

 

The rock section was downhill, although there were other similar parts that went uphill.  Not that bad though.  And the bridge was an optional feature...in that area there were a bunch of little side loops with wooden features, big drops and such.  Just extracurricular stuff off the main trail.

[KuЯdt 248]

11 hours ago, Braff Zacklin said:

I wasn't used to having to burst-burst-burst through so much tech. Our trails have technical sections, but what we rode on Sunday was a technical trail. And we only rode 2.5 miles of it due to a closure, otherwise, it would've gone on for another 1.5 miles.

Just need to lose more weight. It makes such a tremendous difference on steep or tech.

I want a rematch. LoL

That's just the nature of central texas riding. 

There aren't really any long sustained climbs, rather everything is short but punchy with rocks, ledges and roots.  Lots of chunk and that's what can really wear you down - constantly having to negotiate the chunk going uphill instead of getting in a rhythm and grinding uphill for a few miles.  I've seen that put a hurting many a rider from cali/colorado who are excellent climbers but are not used to the technical climbs.

[TwiceHorn 31436]

2 hours ago, KuЯdt said:

That's just the nature of central texas riding. 

There aren't really any long sustained climbs, rather everything is short but punchy with rocks, ledges and roots.  Lots of chunk and that's what can really wear you down - constantly having to negotiate the chunk going uphill instead of getting in a rhythm and grinding uphill for a few miles.  I've seen that put a hurting many a rider from cali/colorado who are excellent climbers but are not used to the technical climbs.

Yeah, if you find anything uphill in DFW, then for the most part it's going to be short, steep, and full of roots and rocks.  There are some slow burn climbs, too, but relatively fewer and would present no issues for Braff and his ilk.  Having no experience outside DFW, it's kind of good to know that topping a short, steep climb all wobbly and then having to descend something presents a challenge to everyone.

Had a really nice ride at River Legacy today.  It's a flat trail in the woods, so mostly shady if hot.  Pretty flowy, a few of those up/downs.  A couple of parts with really overgrown privet, not faceslappers, but facegrabbers and a few that kind of wanted to rip your face off.  Glad I remembered my glasses.

 

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

Y'all will be happy to know I finally got one wheel set up tubeless.  Was a pain in the ass, especially after watching several videos of people getting the tires set with just a floor pump.  In the end I had to use a plastic straw taped to one of those air compressor duster things.  Okay I got the beads to seat, I'll have to wait to make sure it is all sealed.

[TwiceHorn 31436]

28 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Y'all will be happy to know I finally got one wheel set up tubeless.  Was a pain in the ass, especially after watching several videos of people getting the tires set with just a floor pump.  In the end I had to use a plastic straw taped to one of those air compressor duster things.  Okay I got the beads to seat, I'll have to wait to make sure it is all sealed.

I found it to be a pain in the ass myself.  But, it tends to get easier, both from experience and the bead kind of sets to the rim.  And the tire/rim combo makes a difference.  The Maxxis Rekon went on like a charm.  The Vee Crown Gems said "fuck you, Twice," the first couple of times, then got easier.

And, srs pro tip, do not let them go flat (bead broken) for any extended period of time.  The sealant will become an unholy mess.  I don't care how long you think it will be until you ride again, pump em back up.

Edited June 28, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31436]

11 hours ago, KuЯdt said:

 

The rock section was downhill, although there were other similar parts that went uphill.  Not that bad though.  And the bridge was an optional feature...in that area there were a bunch of little side loops with wooden features, big drops and such.  Just extracurricular stuff off the main trail.

Part of the reason I say going up it looks kinda brutal is that you can actually detect the slope, which seems to mean it must be steep af, given digital/phone photography's tendency to flatten things out.

Your grips intrigue me.  I have seen/heard of that type before, but don't recall any names.

[KuЯdt 248]

Part of the reason I say going up it looks kinda brutal is that you can actually detect the slope, which seems to mean it must be steep af, given digital/phone photography's tendency to flatten things out.
Your grips intrigue me.  I have seen/heard of that type before, but don't recall any names.

They're Ergon grips. I've been riding with them for years and really like them.

[KuЯdt 248]

Y'all will be happy to know I finally got one wheel set up tubeless.  Was a pain in the ass, especially after watching several videos of people getting the tires set with just a floor pump.  In the end I had to use a plastic straw taped to one of those air compressor duster things.  Okay I got the beads to seat, I'll have to wait to make sure it is all sealed.

Get an air compressor, totally worth it.

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

Yea that's what I used.  But i couldn't get enough airflow with through the inflator Chuck and the adapter and the valve. 

[KuЯdt 248]

Ha, yeah I guess it says so right there in your post. I probably shouldn't post before morning coffee, lol
I use a Schrader adapter over my presta valves and that works well for me.

[TwiceHorn 31436]

Got half a dozen dry trails in Dallas now and I was fired  up to ride again today.  But slept funny, woke up too early, got that tired, muzzy feeling that makes for a bad ride.  And it's too damned hot to ride after noon.  Furk. 😐

[KuЯdt 248]

I got a good ride in this morning on my local trails, and I have never seen as many riders on those trails as I did today. It felt fantastic outside for a late June morning, so maybe that's why so many people were out.

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

6 hours ago, KuЯdt said:

Ha, yeah I guess it says so right there in your post. I probably shouldn't post before morning coffee, lol
I use a Schrader adapter over my presta valves and that works well for me.

What do you set the regulator to?  I thought 60 would be enough, but I had to max mine out at like 120 to finally get it to work.

[KuЯdt 248]

I usually have it around 80-90, which is really more than enough.

[Braff Zacklin 13552]

On 6/28/2019 at 9:12 AM, KuЯdt said:

Lots of chunk and that's what can really wear you down - constantly having to negotiate the chunk going uphill instead of getting in a rhythm and grinding uphill for a few miles.

That's an accurate description of the Sendero Balcones track. The other trails weren't difficult, but rocks were the rule rather than the exception on Sendero.

Also, we apparently ran the circuit in reverse as we didn't see anyone else going up, only coming down.

[wd40 1976]

it was brutal.  it was the threat of resorting to cannibalism that incentivised me to keep the pace up.

jk

what kurdt said.  welcome to centex.  I love that tech climbing. Twin Oaks would have been boring as a climb; but was fast, fun, and a little hucky 'backwards'.

a little adventure on a different trail.  good times, good company.

 

 

[TwiceHorn 31436]

This is weird.  On my ride at River Legacy, there were complaints on the facebook page about grass burrs, and a guy coming out said it too.  So I expected lots of grass growing into the trails.  Did not really notice any, but did have a lot of burrs on shoelaces, socks and gloves.  On a prior ride at another place, there was some grass growing into the trail and my ankles got kind of cut up and itchy.

So after the ride Friday and Saturday, my ankles are kind of itchy, no big deal.  But so are my feet.  I'm kind of thinking its brewing athlete's foot type crud because of stepping in puddles and mud on both recent rides.  Closer examination of my ankles reveals some chigger bites.

So I give my feet a closer examination.  Geezus, the tops of both, but mostly left appear to be covered in ant bites.  Toward the toes, there were actual blisters, some broken, and left middle toes are covered with suppuration (the word pus is gross to me, but there it is).  I have been hiking, biking, and generally outdooring for most of a half century now and I have never seen anything like this.  Nasty.

I am allergic to ant bites, not anaphylactic allergic, but they can get nasty on me.  And these apparently did.  And I am usually acutely aware of being bitten by ants, but not this time, until much later.  It is clearing up and drying out with the help of some caladryl and not wearing shoes when I don't have to, but shit, this is gonna keep me off the trails today and maybe tomorrow, too.

[yoshi 137]

Happy 4th of July!

 

[Braff Zacklin 13552]

Repped for flats and Hans Dampf.

[TwiceHorn 31436]

Had a good ride Tuesday at River Legacy again.  One interesting thing, part of the trail was blocked off and you were diverted to a paved path for about a mile back to the entrance/start.  It was kind of interesting to have a place where you could just sprint, kind of in the middle of the ride (did two laps of the trail, so middle and end).  Seemed especially nice since I'm trying to build some heat endurance and strength, so I could throw a couple of sprint intervals in amongst the regular trail riding.

[Loco 3752]

 

 

Take that Mountain Bike Nerds!