The Surly Mountain Biking Thread

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

Speaking of @wd40, has he recovered from trying to kill himself a couple of weeks back?

[Al_4_ISU 12661]

I was dinking around on Trail Forks and discovered that there's a trail network in the same town where my in-laws park their boat.  We're heading over there tonight, so I should get some brand new trail under my belt today.  Looks like it has potential based on the maps -(10ish miles of trail with some decent elevation).  My Yellow River rides are usually done when over there, but this is even closer to their spot, so convenience can make up for diminished quality.  Tonight will be the exploratory mission to see if this is a worthwhile addition.  Tomorrow will be Yellow River on my way home to settle in for a long day of football.

[TwiceHorn 32104]

9 hours ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Speaking of @wd40, has he recovered from trying to kill himself a couple of weeks back?

Pretty sure he was riding Cat Mountain within a week.  I didn't even see a bandage in the video.

[TwiceHorn 32104]

Tell me about grips.  I like the OEM grips on my Marin actually pretty well.  They aren't very chunky, really rather skinny, some kind of grabby rubber, single lock-on, they do well.

I know Kurdt is a fan of the Ergons. I'm a little hesitant because they require "adjustment." I'm toying with the ESI foam grips because I have fairly large hands,  But I think sometimes that can be counterintuitive.  

[wd40 1976]

9 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Pretty sure he was riding Cat Mountain within a week.  I didn't even see a bandage in the video.

ish, yeah.  at two weeks, I took the stitches out with the nifty little scissors the little blondo PA offered, since they were just gonna toss them when I checked out.  so it was a few days after that when I was on Cat.  you can see the scar on my left shin.

on grips, everyone's different.  some like spongy, some want paper thin and hard.  but everyone I know who has Ergons loves them.

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

Glad you're back to being in one piece.

Grips are definitely a matter of taste/preference. Also heard much praise for Ergons but have not tried them beyond a pedal around the parking lot.

[Al_4_ISU 12661]

Checked out La Riviere Park in Prairie Du Chien, WI (where my in laws park their house boat). Solid little single track set up. Unfortunately, the lengthiest trail in the system shares about 30% of its run with horses, which always fuck everything up.

The non horse areas were tight, twisty, steep as all fuck, and all soft dirt. Few roots, no limestone. The trails themselves wound in and out of forest and prairie, and climbed up and down some ridges between the Mississippi and the massive cliffs framing its valley.

All and all not worth coming 65 miles just to ride, but a damn fine option when visiting the in laws.

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

You've shared pics from that place before, right? Those horse tracks look familiar. LoL

[KuЯdt 248]

yeah grips are very much a personal preference.  I have Ergons on two of my bikes and they are my go to.  

I have these on another bike and I like them and of course love the look:  https://www.jensonusa.com/ODI-Vans-Lock-On-Grips-Checkered-Clamps-Black-With-Black-Checkered-Clamps?pt_source=googleads&pt_medium=cpc&pt_campaign=shopping_us&pt_keyword=&gclid=Cj0KCQjwqs3rBRCdARIsADe1pfSIrEf0SC5-d5Y115VZJ5BSKxJkbRZltj8NmClyqK71tLVFRBe_gS0aApnWEALw_wcB

I don't ride that bike very often but it's kind of a nice change of pace for me when I do ride it.

 

On another note, I rode yesterday with a friend of mine.  He does a Sunday morning road ride out in Dripping Springs most weekends and he was telling me how he likes to mess with the roadies by riding up real close to them.  He decided to demonstrate and moved over right next to me real fast, hooking my handlebar under his accidentally and sent me to the ground in a hurry.  Smashed the shit out of my phone screen which I had in my pocket like a dumbass.  So I get to go see about getting that repaired today.

[Al_4_ISU 12661]

You've shared pics from that place before, right? Those horse tracks look familiar. LoL

First time riding here. Horse ruts are the bane of mountain bikers in the Upper Midwest

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

10 minutes ago, KuЯdt said:

On another note, I rode yesterday with a friend of mine.  He does a Sunday morning road ride out in Dripping Springs most weekends and he was telling me how he likes to mess with the roadies by riding up real close to them.  He decided to demonstrate and moved over right next to me real fast, hooking my handlebar under his accidentally and sent me to the ground in a hurry.  Smashed the shit out of my phone screen which I had in my pocket like a dumbass.  So I get to go see about getting that repaired today.

 

[Al_4_ISU 12661]

Took the hard tail to Yellow River this AM (I’ve posted pics from here a lot). It’s all shared use double track, and there are lots of large, loose rocks, deep loose gravel, and horse mud.

 

In these conditions, the fatty is still king. Really enjoyed the ride, but I don’t see myself bringing the hard tail back to the spot.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TwiceHorn 32104]

So I rode Oak Cliff Nature Preserve Saturday morning, which became a bit of a pre-game ritual last year, when weather permitted.  Was usually associated with winning.  Not this time, I guess.

Based on my minor triumph at River Legacy, I had a little revelation about improving my skillz.  Particularly at OCNP, there are a number of climbs where line choice becomes important, and some of them are pretty tricky, like this one:

And it has changed a bit since that photo.  In that one, the line is pretty obviously to the left, but now you have to goalpost a tree gate if you stay on the left. And if you avoid the gate, you have to clear some pretty big roots as your momentum is diminishing. And the rains have exposed, and ledged, all the roots more.  And it's on the way out of a steepish creek crossing, so you can have some pretty good momentum if you choose.  Enough to fuck you up pretty good on some of those ledged roots if you hit em square.

In any event, I never cared much if I cleaned things like that.  Sometimes I did, sometimes I didn't.  But I have decided I'm going to be a little more serious about cleaning those features.  I guess I was more concerned with surviving the descent in the foreground and with climbs that were pedaling/cardio challenges.  And maybe I will acquire some skillz that will help stop me from being perpetually pissed off about that section of Harry Moss.

[TwiceHorn 32104]

Glorious ride this morning at RCP.  It stayed under 90, so I did 9 miles at a pretty decent clip.

I heard the other day we're officially in drought conditions here and it's showing on the trails.

The above shows what I consider a typical Nawf Texas field section.  Slightly rutted, not the deep ruts out at Frisco NW.  You can also see the big "longitudinal" cracks that have opened up.

Some of these mofos can swallow a wheel.  Cuidado, amigos.

[Al_4_ISU 12661]

That looks like an easy way to drop your pedal into the ground mid cadence and dump it.

[TwiceHorn 32104]

1 minute ago, Al_4_ISU said:

That looks like an easy way to drop your pedal into the ground mid cadence and dump it.

Yeah, you can get some "pedal grazes" even without the big-ass cracks.  That's why I was flustered by the 12-18" deep ruts out at that Frisco trail.  But those type cracks are all over the trail tread in the field sections at Rowlett Creek currently.  Makes them kind of an adventure.

 

[Al_4_ISU 12661]

25 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah, you can get some "pedal grazes" even without the big-ass cracks.  That's why I was flustered by the 12-18" deep ruts out at that Frisco trail.  But those type cracks are all over the trail tread in the field sections at Rowlett Creek currently.  Makes them kind of an adventure.

 

On the trails I was riding Friday night, I accidentally got onto a specific horse trail a couple of times, and they were that way.  Once I petered out of momentum, it was literally impossible to ride a bicycle down it so I had to double back to the previous junction.

[TwiceHorn 32104]

And the wacky thing is that I am used to tearing ass on those field sections.  Partly because they're usually flat and unobstructed and you can use the "sidewall" as a berm, and partly to get out of the friggin sun.

[Knoxtnhorn 6312]

Just finished RCP.  Maybe I should stick to road cycling.  Wrecked twice today.  Once into a tree.  Lost a lot of skin on my left forearm.  30 mins later, I wiped jumping a log on Trail #5 (I think it's #5).  No big issue there except for that my left shin went right down my pedal. 

Agree with all the cracks - especially in the field going south toward the Castle Parking lot.  There's a small log to jump there.  I hit the air before realizing my front tire was about to land in one of the cracks.  Not sure how I didn't spill on that one.  

Still love it, though.

[wd40 1976]

you must be feeling better, knox.  that's good.  I lost the front wheel on a wet limestone slab on a section called Leche, a while back.  almost took a core sample of my left lung with my bar end, just under my moob.  that shit takes forever to heal.

I'll bet if you think back, the two wrecks today were fulfilled prophecies, and you were distracted/focused elsewhere on the crack landing.

don't think.  it can only hurt the ballclub.

 

Edited September 10, 2019 by wd40

[TwiceHorn 32104]

2 hours ago, Knoxtnhorn said:

Just finished RCP.  Maybe I should stick to road cycling.  Wrecked twice today.  Once into a tree.  Lost a lot of skin on my left forearm.  30 mins later, I wiped jumping a log on Trail #5 (I think it's #5).  No big issue there except for that my left shin went right down my pedal. 

Agree with all the cracks - especially in the field going south toward the Castle Parking lot.  There's a small log to jump there.  I hit the air before realizing my front tire was about to land in one of the cracks.  Not sure how I didn't spill on that one.  

Still love it, though.

Yeah, there's a pipe on loop 1 that they keep putting a janky little ramp on.  I almost tried to hop it, but thought better of it and when I got there there was a big-ass crack right on the other side waiting to swallow your front wheel while your chainring slams down on the pipe.

Also did that little ledge bypass we were talking about earlier.  Well, the drop back onto the trail is smoothed out some, but right where it hits was a sandpile, front wheel almost went skating off when I hit that.

Edited September 10, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Knoxtnhorn 6312]

I noticed there was a lot less sand than the last time I was on the trail - a couple of weeks ago.  I like the Loop 1 jump over the log.  I'm still terrified of the jump on Loop 5 (big log).  I generally just try to get over that one without dying.

[TwiceHorn 32104]

12 hours ago, Knoxtnhorn said:

I noticed there was a lot less sand than the last time I was on the trail - a couple of weeks ago.  I like the Loop 1 jump over the log.  I'm still terrified of the jump on Loop 5 (big log).  I generally just try to get over that one without dying.

It did seem less sandy and loose than before that last little rain.  But that may also have been my underinflated rear tire.

It had been a while since I had been south of loop 4.  Yesterday, I couldn't remember and took 5A, thinking it would loop back on 5, but it didn't.  There's kind of a log pile to go over, two or three high, that I bypassed on loop 5A.  I only vaguely remember the log on 5, as I recall, it has kind of a ramp up it, but nothing "over" it, so it's pretty rough going over and down?

Edited September 10, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Knoxtnhorn 6312]

I'll have to check as we may be speaking of the same thing.  I do the exact same route every time.  Anything south of Castle, I ride.  There's a large log between the 66 bridge and (I think) the railroad bridge.  It's on the west side just after the sign that reads "Earl's Way" or somesuch.  I generally get over it very carefully.  The one time I truly jumped it, my life flashed before my eyes.

[TwiceHorn 32104]

On 9/10/2019 at 1:57 PM, Knoxtnhorn said:

I'll have to check as we may be speaking of the same thing.  I do the exact same route every time.  Anything south of Castle, I ride.  There's a large log between the 66 bridge and (I think) the railroad bridge.  It's on the west side just after the sign that reads "Earl's Way" or somesuch.  I generally get over it very carefully.  The one time I truly jumped it, my life flashed before my eyes.

Yeah, that's that like 3-log stack.  I had a bad experience with one of those at River Legacy, I think.  No harm, but I was foolish to have tried it, cased or high-centered myself, and luckily leapt off the bike before hurting myself.  I think you're supposed to "pop off" the front of those?  I dunno.  I don't generally screw with those anymore.

There is another one, that is a single large log that really isn't much of a big deal.  However, it has what appears from a distance to be an up-and-over ramp that is really more of an up-and-onto and you're-on-your-own-getting-down deal that is a little shocking.  Maybe it was in disrepair last time I rode it, but it was up, on, and endo city to use the popular term, when kind of expecting a little help getting down.

[TwiceHorn 32104]

Had a ride at Boulder Park Wednesday.  One of its main features is a 3/4 mile climb on the way out that's pretty rough.  Last time I went, I powered through it.  This time, I was fairly aggressive and fast on the rest of the trail and just didn't have it for most of that climb.  I started it, powered through about 100 yards of rock garden while grunting and groaning and then forced myself to trot up it like a cyclocrosser.  Pretty disappointing.  Despite the long walk, was 0.5 mph faster than the last time I rode it.

The weather has been quite nice for riding.  Although the highs are still in the mid-90s, it stays in the 80s most of the mornings and the humidity is relatively low.  It's odd though how the nice shady woods, where I prefer to be, can hold some pretty nasty humidity.

[Al_4_ISU 12661]

I've been sidelined all week due to rain.  After going well over a month without measurable rain, we've had 8" since Sunday, which has soaked in fairly well given the previous dryness, but it's going to be probably Tuesday before the trails are worth a shit.

The good news is that dryness is coming back and starting tomorrow we'll be back in the 80's with sun.  Next week is probably my last week of riding this year, barring a late start to winter.  We should be in the field in about 10 days, and given the late start (we were already cutting beans at this time last year) there are good odds of snow cover by the time we get the corn out.

[TwiceHorn 32104]

So, good riders, tell me how I should be using my dropper post.  As mentioned countless times, up here we have a lot of fairly steep, but short descents followed by equally short and steep climbs. U or V-shaped, if you will.  Creek crossings, gullies and whatnot.

Dropping the post is good for the descents, but I can survive without dropping it.  However, depending on how smooth the thing is at the bottom, it's at some danger to the jewels.  And there's always the danger that I don't get back far enough with the saddle in the way.

On that climb, though, I feel I really need it up.  I mostly try to spin climbs rather than mash, although sometimes it turns into a mash for the last couple of feet.

Should I be lowering it just an inch or two for these descents instead of "slamming" it (I don't slam it all the way, but 3-4 inches probably, so it's really noticeable trying to climb out)? Should I try to raise it on the fly at the bottom or on the way up?  Should I leave it down and choose a gear so I can stand and mash on the last few feet of the climb?

I have a little less trouble making use of it when the climb is followed by a descent, but I usually do that slooooow because of loss of momentum on the climb, I just kind of tip into the descent and it gives me time to lower.  And that's fine because post-collarbone, I'm not interested in adding speed beyond what gravity gives me.

Or should I not even be bothering with it on stuff like this?

Edited September 16, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

I cannot stand having my seat up for steep descents. Completely throws me off and undermines any confidence. Also difficult for me to get my thighs behind the saddle (and then back in front) with the seat up.

If it's a short down/short up scenario, I'd probably slam it and then mash my way out and the seat back up if needed. If you grab a big enough gear before dropping, you might only need a few cranks to get to the top if you sync your pedaling properly.

But if it's super steep, it's probably best to stay in a lower gear cuz you definitely don't want to shift under heavy torque.

Basically, it boils down to judgment and preference. I adjust seat height more than I shift. But I have friends who don't use droppers and won't even try them. /shrug

[TwiceHorn 32104]

4 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

I cannot stand having my seat up for steep descents. Completely throws me off and undermines any confidence. Also difficult for me to get my thighs behind the saddle (and then back in front) with the seat up.

If it's a short down/short up scenario, I'd probably slam it and then mash my way out and the seat back up if needed. If you grab a big enough gear before dropping, you might only need a few cranks to get to the top if you sync your pedaling properly.

But if it's super steep, it's probably best to stay in a lower gear cuz you definitely don't want to shift under heavy torque.

Basically, it boils down to judgment and preference. I adjust seat height more than I shift. But I have friends who don't use droppers and won't even try them. /shrug

Yeah, I guess getting a little higher gear to mash out is the ticket.  I have gone back and forth on climb-out strategy and gotten decent at "rev matching" a lower gear so I can start pedaling before I lose all momentum, maybe I just need to alter that be ready to stand and deliver at the top of the climb.  I don't usually shift in these conditions, I try to grab a gear beforehand.

[TwiceHorn 32104]

Oh God, I forgot.  Yesterday I rode Harry Moss, and stayed away from the irritating section.  Most of that trail is smooth enough that you see gravel and cross-riders on their drop bar bikes pretty often.  I got eaten up twice by a chick on a gravel-cross bike.  Judging by her attire, and speed, she was a racer.  She was hauling balls.  Her bike had orange tires, though, so that was kind of cool.

[KuЯdt 248]

I have never ridden with a dropper post, so I can't answer the question.  Of course I'm still on my old school 2012 vintage Santa Cruz with 71 degree HTA, 685mm bars, and boner stem.

A year or 2 ago while about to head down a long descent in New Mexico, I decided to lower my seatpost to simulate what having a dropper could do for me.  Holy shit I felt uncomfortable and squirrelly.  I didn't realize until then how much I use my seat for stabilization on descents...kind of keeping it between my thighs while standing.  Sounds kinky I know.

I'm also conditioned to get my ass behind the seat and put it just about on the back tire for really steep descents.   I know whatever bike I get next will come with a dropper, but I guess I'll wait to really learn how to use one until then.

[Al_4_ISU 12661]

25 minutes ago, KuЯdt said:

I have never ridden with a dropper post, so I can't answer the question.  Of course I'm still on my old school 2012 vintage Santa Cruz with 71 degree HTA, 685mm bars, and boner stem.

A year or 2 ago while about to head down a long descent in New Mexico, I decided to lower my seatpost to simulate what having a dropper could do for me.  Holy shit I felt uncomfortable and squirrelly.  I didn't realize until then how much I use my seat for stabilization on descents...kind of keeping it between my thighs while standing.  Sounds kinky I know.

I'm also conditioned to get my ass behind the seat and put it just about on the back tire for really steep descents.   I know whatever bike I get next will come with a dropper, but I guess I'll wait to really learn how to use one until then.

This is exactly how I am with descents.

On the fat bike, I found I need my full leg stroke to climb well.  When I need to mash, I'm still coming off the post, but I don't need to mash as much when I'm climbing with full leg usage.

On the hard tail, I initially left the seat where my buddy had it, since we're the same height.  Climbing started to become a bitch after a couple big ones because I couldn't get full power seated, and was fatiguing quickly because of it.  Descents were a little squirrely too.  On the fatty, I was used to pulling off the seat completely and squatting over the tire on descents.

Tonight I'm going to ride with the hard tail and move the seat up a couple inches.  With the forecast and impending harvest, every ride could be my last of the year.  Will make it count.

[TwiceHorn 32104]

I think the main value of a dropper is for riders that have long descents that include some maneuvering, turning, and things like rock gardens or drops, where you pretty much stay in the attack position the whole time.

I just don't have much of that.

I do,  on longer downhill (not descents per se, but where you can get away without pedaling) sections in the trees with roots and stuff, like to drop it just an inch or two so it's a little easier to get my ass around.  It's still there, but not so in the way.

I, too was/am uncomfortable with the feeling of being disconnected from the bike when the seat is slammed.  It works ok for steeeeep descents, but as soon as I'm level or headed back up, it's flat disconcerting.

 

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

12 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I think the main value of a dropper is for riders that have long descents that include some maneuvering, turning, and things like rock gardens or drops, where you pretty much stay in the attack position the whole time.

Eh, if this were the primary application, I never would've gotten a dropper and would've continued to adjust saddle height via the quick-release clamp.

Honestly, it's one of those things that, once you start using it, you'll wonder how you ever managed without it. But like anything new, it's going to frustrate you at first. For me, it's like disc brakes, tubeless tires, and a 1x drivetrain--things I'll most likely never ride without going forward.

But it's certainly a matter of preference. If you don't want one, don't get one.

[TwiceHorn 32104]

Rode River Legacy this morning.  Remembered the signs for that climb and cleaned it twice without having to stop beforehand.  10.3 miles at 8.5 mph, pedaling the whole time.

On the trails around here, I spend about 95% of my time, maybe more, pedaling.  Droppers are mostly incompatible with pedaling, it seems.

But Braff raises a good point, if it's just for long descents, why do you need to raise/lower on command.  I dunno.

The theory of a dropper makes lots of sense.  The reality of it is, I dunno.

Edited September 17, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Al_4_ISU 12661]

So much that for ride. Cuttin’ beans in 2 hours. Giddy up! Been a hell of a riding season. May have a few more left if I’m lucky.

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

10 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

So much that for ride. Cuttin’ beans in 2 hours. Giddy up! Been a hell of a riding season. May have a few more left if I’m lucky.

Come on out this way, Al--the leaves are turning and the hero dirt is back. Wet as hell today, but they won't stay that for long.

And @TwiceHorn: Apologies if my tone makes it seem like you gotta have a dropper. You know your trails and riding style best, so go with what you like. Seems to be working so far.

[KuЯdt 248]

Twice's question got me thinking.  I stopped by a bike shop the other day to take a look at a bike that's been catching my eye lately.  I really am trying to resist starting that hunt for a new bike, but I'm afraid it may have already started.

Anyway, this bike was a brand new 2020 and had the latest geo and everything else.  The bars were 800mm.  And here I thought 740 sounded super wide but damn 800?  I feel like that would create tree gates where they never existed for me before.  I'll have to go do some demo rides at some point, but I'm curious what length bars you guys on more modern bikes are running.  What did the bike come with and did you end up cutting the bars down?

For around here, 800 seems way too wide as there are a number of tight twisty trails where I feel like that wouldn't play well.  

[Al_4_ISU 12661]

Come on out this way, Al--the leaves are turning and the hero dirt is back. Wet as hell today, but they won't stay that for long.

And [mention=248]TwiceHorn[/mention]: Apologies if my tone makes it seem like you gotta have a dropper. You know your trails and riding style best, so go with what you like. Seems to be working so far.

 

Yeah, I’ll be working 100 hour weeks until Thanksgiving (unless it’s raining) from here on out. But I would love to ride out your way sometime. Wife wants to do the bike western road trip through Yellowstone and stuff someday

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

Just now, Al_4_ISU said:

Yeah, I’ll be working 100 hour weeks until Thanksgiving unless it’s raining from here on out. But I would love to ride out your way sometime. Wife wants to do the bike western road trip through Yellowstone and stuff someday

 

100-hour weeks? That's why you have paralegals, my man!

Yellowstone, the greater caldera area, and the Grand Tetons are within 2.5 hours from where I live, yet I only get up there about once a year on average. I'm a bad Idahoan.

[TwiceHorn 32104]

7 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Come on out this way, Al--the leaves are turning and the hero dirt is back. Wet as hell today, but they won't stay that for long.

And @TwiceHorn: Apologies if my tone makes it seem like you gotta have a dropper. You know your trails and riding style best, so go with what you like. Seems to be working so far.

No not at all, I enjoy the back and forth.  Totally open to new ideas about droppers or anything else.

One issue is that, I'm not very good at pedaling standing?  I have to be essentially mashing.  Maybe if I was stronger in that department, I could make better use of a dropper.  Like, I can see its utility carving turns, if I had several to carve that didn't involve losing speed (e.g. I have a fair number of S's to navigate, but I have to pedal after the first one at least a couple of strokes and that seems to make dropping the seat kind of impractical).

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

4 minutes ago, KuЯdt said:

 I really am trying to resist starting that hunt for a new bike, but I'm afraid it may have already started.

The heart wants what the heart wants ...

4 minutes ago, KuЯdt said:

The bars were 800mm.  And here I thought 740 sounded super wide but damn 800?  I feel like that would create tree gates where they never existed for me before.  I'll have to go do some demo rides at some point, but I'm curious what length bars you guys on more modern bikes are running.  What did the bike come with and did you end up cutting the bars down?

For around here, 800 seems way too wide as there are a number of tight twisty trails where I feel like that wouldn't play well.  

There was a good discussion on bar width back in the spring, but I'm too lazy to dig it up. My personal experience:

First trail bike had 580mm bars. Twitchy af.

Next bike came with 620s, which I liked but later upgraded to some much lighter RaceFace Deus 680s. Seemed crazy wide at first and dinged a few trees for a few weeks but grew to prefer them.

My squishy came with 700s, which felt virtually identical to the 680s, but then I replaced them with carbon Easton Haven 740s and started dinging trees again. Still felt like 700s were the best, but swapping from a full suspension with 740s to a hardtail with 700s was unsettling, so now my hardtail has 740s, as well.

Some guys out here ride 800s but it seems ridiculous overkill to me, especially when they wouldn't crack 5'8" in boots. Still, boils down to a matter of style and preference.

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

No not at all, I enjoy the back and forth.  Totally open to new ideas about droppers or anything else.

One issue is that, I'm not very good at pedaling standing?  I have to be essentially mashing.  Maybe if I was stronger in that department, I could make better use of a dropper.  Like, I can see its utility carving turns, if I had several to carve that didn't involve losing speed (e.g. I have a fair number of S's to navigate, but I have to pedal after the first one at least a couple of strokes and that seems to make dropping the seat kind of impractical).

I hear you. I'm great at pedaling out of the saddle ... until I'm not, which is when I'm tired, which is often given the climbs out here. The front of my quads are almost always burning on descents.

Still, it gets easier the more you ride and the more weight you lose. I cannot stress enough how much influence weight has on riding. It's not just climbing, either. Accelerating out of turns, putting in that extra pedal on a shallow descent instead of coasting, etc.

[TwiceHorn 32104]

33 minutes ago, KuЯdt said:

Twice's question got me thinking.  I stopped by a bike shop the other day to take a look at a bike that's been catching my eye lately.  I really am trying to resist starting that hunt for a new bike, but I'm afraid it may have already started.

Anyway, this bike was a brand new 2020 and had the latest geo and everything else.  The bars were 800mm.  And here I thought 740 sounded super wide but damn 800?  I feel like that would create tree gates where they never existed for me before.  I'll have to go do some demo rides at some point, but I'm curious what length bars you guys on more modern bikes are running.  What did the bike come with and did you end up cutting the bars down?

For around here, 800 seems way too wide as there are a number of tight twisty trails where I feel like that wouldn't play well.  

Re:  Tree gates, yes it absolutely will.  Thing is, though, I think they give you 800 so you can cut down.  Mine are 780 and I really like them, generally, but they create tree gate issues.  I'm not convinced that cutting them down to 760 or 740 will solve that.  Maybe it would.

Also, wide bars compensate for short stems.  Your old 680 bars on a 35mm stem would be freaky.

Also, geo is getting insanely slack.  My bike is only 67.5 and I wouldn't want it any slacker. 65-66 is common on '20s and 67.5 is considered XC now.** It fucks up the steering.  A vivid example of this is:  you stop on the trail. Whichever side you're leaning to put your foot down, your wheel is going to FLOP to 90 degrees in that direction.  Not just turn a little, but fucking FLOP 90, which may make your bike fall over.  If you have to do tight and twisties, that's no fucking fun in my book.  One might think it's merely an adjustment on your part, but it kind of bugs me.  I think, though, that my recent foray with stupid low tire pressure may have enhanced that.

Maybe if the fork offset is cut down to 44 instead of 51, that  is reduced.  Because you see that on recent bikes, too.

**The 2020 Tallboy, which is 120mm and called XCish by Santa Cruz, is 65.7 degrees.  Insane in the membrane.

Edited September 17, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Al_4_ISU 12661]

100-hour weeks? That's why you have paralegals, my man!
Yellowstone, the greater caldera area, and the Grand Tetons are within 2.5 hours from where I live, yet I only get up there about once a year on average. I'm a bad Idahoan.

I farm. I have a law degree/license but I spend way more time in the field. I use it around the office when we’re exchanging properties and what not, but it’s a small part of my life.

We raise corn and soybeans on a very large scale and the harvest is starting basically now. If everything goes smoothly, we would get done in late November. My only days off between now and then will be when it rains, and if it’s too wet to pick, it’s too wet to ride single track. We work 16-18 hour days, 7 days a week when it’s fit.

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I farm. I have a law degree/license but I spend way more time in the field. I use it around the office when we’re exchanging properties and what not, but it’s a small part of my life.

We raise corn and soybeans on a very large scale and the harvest is starting basically now. If everything goes smoothly, we would get done in late November. My only days off between now and then will be when it rains, and if it’s too wet to pick, it’s too wet to ride single track. We work 16-18 hour days, 7 days a week when it’s fit.

 

So you are the Iowa stereotype, but adapted to the modern era of vast commercial farms?

The farmers out here become ghosts from August through late October/early November. Second and third cuttings of alfafa are up, wheat and barley have been harvested, and potatoes are winding down, but there are still sugar beets to pull, dent corn to combine (if it hasn't already), and fall/winter wheat to sow.

Corn and soybeans, eh? You must be on Monsanto's (now Bayer's) Christmas card mailing list.

[KuЯdt 248]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Re:  Tree gates, yes it absolutely will.  Thing is, though, I think they give you 800 so you can cut down.  Mine are 780 and I really like them, generally, but they create tree gate issues.  I'm not convinced that cutting them down to 760 or 740 will solve that.  Maybe it would.

Also, wide bars compensate for short stems.  Your old 680 bars on a 35mm stem would be freaky.

Also, geo is getting insanely slack.  My bike is only 67.5 and I wouldn't want it any slacker. 65-66 is common on '20s and 67.5 is considered XC now.** It fucks up the steering.  A vivid example of this is:  you stop on the trail. Whichever side you're leaning to put your foot down, your wheel is going to FLOP to 90 degrees in that direction.  Not just turn a little, but fucking FLOP 90, which may make your bike fall over.  If you have to do tight and twisties, that's no fucking fun in my book.  One might think it's merely an adjustment on your part, but it kind of bugs me.  I think, though, that my recent foray with stupid low tire pressure may have enhanced that.

Maybe if the fork offset is cut down to 44 instead of 51, that  is reduced.  Because you see that on recent bikes, too.

**The 2020 Tallboy, which is 120mm and called XCish by Santa Cruz, is 65.7 degrees.  Insane in the membrane.

Yeah it's crazy how much things have changed over the past few years.  It will definitely take some getting used to for me.  I've yet to spend any time on newer, slacker geo other than a quick ride around the parking lot on a friend's bike.   Demo days are in my future. 

[KuЯdt 248]

2 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

So much that for ride. Cuttin’ beans in 2 hours. Giddy up! Been a hell of a riding season. May have a few more left if I’m lucky.

Bummer dude.  One nice thing about living in Texas - while the summers are a fucking beating, the riding is year-round.  

[TwiceHorn 32104]

14 hours ago, KuЯdt said:

Yeah it's crazy how much things have changed over the past few years.  It will definitely take some getting used to for me.  I've yet to spend any time on newer, slacker geo other than a quick ride around the parking lot on a friend's bike.   Demo days are in my future. 

One benefit of it though, that's real, is that you don't have to get back as far as fast when you tip into a descent.  You absolutely do feel less over the front of the bike.  You will notice that almost immediately if you go down some stairs.  The long reach suits me as well.