The Surly Mountain Biking Thread

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

The benefit of a shitty winter is the snow melts and trails dry sooner than usual. Combined with the sunny, mid-50-degree weather we had this week, and I was able to work in my first trail ride of the year today.

Odd to be riding up trails that I skied on a month ago. They were soft and slow (much like the author of this post), but dirt is still dirt. It was great to get out.

Hope y'all are enjoying some singletrack, as well.

[TwiceHorn 32108]

Well, I banged out 10 miles at RCP today.  That new couple of loops that I was digging is too muddy to ride, so that was a bummer.

But, I cleaned Loop 7, which I was kind of proud of as I just started riding it a month or two ago.

 And I finally rode a creek crossing that I have avoided for a while.  It's one of those that the stewards feel need to be filled with concrete chunks and after I broke my collarbone a year ago, they were real janky with a V formed by a couple of them.  It was a super-rough go that had a tendency to hang your front wheel.  It has been fixed for a few months and is now smoother, leveler, and wider at the bottom than it's ever been, but I have not ridden it for whatever reason.

[KuЯdt 248]

Gnargasm is such a great trail name.

[KuЯdt 248]

Little update on my Maxxis tire that developed a goiter.  The replacement arrived last Saturday (a Minion DHR II since the Aggressor was out of stock - cool), but I had been riding on the goiter'd tire for a week and it was still good, other than that giant growth on it.  Decided to just ride it until it blows up.

I've put 90+ miles on it, and some rough miles too - that goiter has been to Flat Rock Ranch and Pedernales Falls in addition to the southie trails.  I guess I'm committed to it now, fuck it imma ride it til it dies.

[wd40 1976]

getting better.  still chickened out on the big red ladder drop, tho.  was kinda tired, kinda felt like I pushed my luck enough for one day.

one day, I'll make a really good video of this place.

 

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

My favorite vid yet.

Some people put a great deal of time into crafting that trail and it shows.

[TwiceHorn 32108]

On 3/8/2020 at 8:09 PM, wd40 said:

getting better.  still chickened out on the big red ladder drop, tho.  was kinda tired, kinda felt like I pushed my luck enough for one day.

one day, I'll make a really good video of this place.

 

By "ladder drop" I assume you mean the red ramp that you bypass for the smaller one?

The nawf Texas trails have quite a few ramps that are just up-and-overs.  Sometimes over logs or obstructions and sometimes just sitting there in the middle of the trail.  And a few of them are ramps for jumps, also mostly in the middle of the trail.  So you can't tell on first approach if it's just going to be an up and over or something to pop off of (which I guess the up and overs qualify as).

I feel like a tool bypassing, or occasionally just stopping in front of, the up and overs when I don't know what they are.

Once, I went up a ramp expecting an up and over and there was no downside.  Miraculously, I panic-popped and got over it pretty nicely.  Then I decided I would try popping the known up and overs and those were not as successful and the landings convinced me not to do it on the regular.  Demonstrates how thinking is counterproductive on the trail sometimes.

Obvs I ain't jumping shit.

Edited March 10, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Al_4_ISU 12665]

On 3/7/2020 at 2:31 PM, Braff Zacklin said:

The benefit of a shitty winter is the snow melts and trails dry sooner than usual. Combined with the sunny, mid-50-degree weather we had this week, and I was able to work in my first trail ride of the year today.

Odd to be riding up trails that I skied on a month ago. They were soft and slow (much like the author of this post), but dirt is still dirt. It was great to get out.

Hope y'all are enjoying some singletrack, as well.

After getting some really quick snow melt, we're stuck in a goofy pattern of 40's for daily highs, but just dipping below freezing overnight.  Enough to keep the freeze/thaw cycle going, the north slopes from really melting off, and keeping me off the trails while it's pretty pleasant outside.

The pattern seems like to be like this for at least 2 weeks.  It's an especially cruel kind of torture.

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

8 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

After getting some really quick snow melt, we're stuck in a goofy pattern of 40's for daily highs, but just dipping below freezing overnight.  Enough to keep the freeze/thaw cycle going, the north slopes from really melting off, and keeping me off the trails while it's pretty pleasant outside.

The pattern seems like to be like this for at least 2 weeks.  It's an especially cruel kind of torture.

The cruelest kind of torture is when you can't ride and your buddies drop by to gloat and let you know how much fun they're having on the trails. Of course, I would never resort to such a heinous act. I've got standards. Besides, I've been too busy taking advantage of this spring preview and riding the trails three of the past four days.

But seriously, I sympathize. You've definitely gotta take advantage of your windows in early spring.

For example, yesterday was cold and drizzly, but the sun came out today and I finished work early, so I managed to get in some miles on our lower trails. Routing gets creative, as well, because many sections--anything in trees or with extreme northern exposure--needs more time.

Tomorrow should be sunny and in the high 50s--epic weather for early March--but I'll be on the water fishing all day Thursday (humblebrag?) and working from dark to dark on Friday, and then a system of shit is expected to move in and hover for a few days, so you'll have your chance to return the "favor."

 

[TwiceHorn 32108]

Made it out to Horseshoe in Grapevine today.  Since I rode it fairly recently, I was able to put some sections together and flow it pretty well, at least parts of it.

I sweatergawd, for me, being winded is at least half psychological.  I think all this coronavirus crap has me thinking about "shortness of breath" and my cardiovascular and pulmonary condition.  I never got winded badly today (although it hit 80), but I was super conscious of it on climby stuff and was ready to pull the ripcord if I got super-winded.

One bummer about Horsesshoe is that it's a bit less than six miles.  I could go more than that, but it's strenuous enough that two full laps would be quite a beating at this stage of conditioning.

I may be able to squeak in one more ride before the rains come again and I may do it at Boulder with that awful mile climb out. 

[TwiceHorn 32108]

8 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

The cruelest kind of torture is when you can't ride and your buddies drop by to gloat and let you know how much fun they're having on the trails. Of course, I would never resort to such a heinous act. I've got standards. Besides, I've been too busy taking advantage of this spring preview and riding the trails three of the past four days.

But seriously, I sympathize. You've definitely gotta take advantage of your windows in early spring.

For example, yesterday was cold and drizzly, but the sun came out today and I finished work early, so I managed to get in some miles on our lower trails. Routing gets creative, as well, because many sections--anything in trees or with extreme northern exposure--needs more time.

Tomorrow should be sunny and in the high 50s--epic weather for early March--but I'll be on the water fishing all day Thursday (humblebrag?) and working from dark to dark on Friday, and then a system of shit is expected to move in and hover for a few days, so you'll have your chance to return the "favor."

 

You are quite the multifarious, peripatetic dude.  MTB, fishing, model-building.

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

28 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

You are quite the multifarious, peripatetic dude.  MTB, fishing, model-building.

Thanks, I think. "Renaissance Man" would be equally flattering, but "bum" or "slacker" might be more accurate.

I don't do much wandering or exploring these days. Bounced around a lot growing up, but I've lived within five blocks in this little corner of Idaho for 16 years. I do have (too?) many hobbies, the benefit (or curse) of not being married or having any children.

Have you shared pics of Horseshoe before?

[TwiceHorn 32108]

49 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Thanks, I think. "Renaissance Man" would be equally flattering, but "bum" or "slacker" might be more accurate.

I don't do much wandering or exploring these days. Bounced around a lot growing up, but I've lived within five blocks in this little corner of Idaho for 16 years. I do have (too?) many hobbies, the benefit (or curse) of not being married or having any children.

Have you shared pics of Horseshoe before?

I don't recall.  It has a couple of decent overlooks of sloughs on Lake Grapevine.  But now, the trees are all winter-dead.  But come spring it's verdant and kind of nice.  Actually, I should have taken some pix of this fairly hairy rock garden that I don't have the balls to tackle.

The weirdest thing about it is that, in contrast to the limestone and clay-ey soil of most of the NTex trails, it's either sandstone or some kind of Iron-oxide heavy rock and soil.  Stuff isn't as hygroscopic as the rest of the trails, so they dry out faster.  Gives a very different look and feel.  Whatever that rock is, it occurs more in chunks than limestone and doesn't dissolve/erode nearly as fast.  Limestone makes new lines in a season or less just from people riding on it.  This stuff doesn't change, but provides more lines because it's more chunky and less slabby.  But makes some gnarly rock gardens in a couple of places.  The flat trails are like decomposed granite.

I just looked at a soil map and it describes the area as loamy soil, which means heavy sand/sandstone content.  So I guess that's what it is.

This is one of those overlooks (from the intergoogles):

A not-gnarly little climb armored with some flaggy stones I guess harvested around there.

An odd angle/lens, but you can see some chunks of whatever that rock is.

Edited March 11, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 32108]

I lied earlier about cleaning Loop 7 at RCP.  I cleaned the first half of it.  That part with the bad exposed off-camber is part of Loop 7 too, not Loop 14, which is what I thought.  I don't think I want to even see Loop 14 (all black).

It was 80++ today and I did a little less than 8 at RCP today.  Went surprisingly fast, but the heat weighed on me pretty good and made me quit without repeating any loops.

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

7 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I lied earlier about cleaning Loop 7 at RCP.  I cleaned the first half of it.  That part with the bad exposed off-camber is part of Loop 7 too, not Loop 14, which is what I thought.

This time, you've gone too far. I've officially lost all respect for you.

[TwiceHorn 32108]

Well, since @Knoxtnhorn knows the trail, after I got a look at the map, I didn't want to misrepresent my "accomplishment."

[Knoxtnhorn 6312]

I've done 7 and 14 with two exceptions.  The part we discussed a few pages back where one can slide off the side of the trail and off a 40 foot ledge AND one part where you have to go down a really steep 40-ish foot decline.  I walked my bike through both.

[TwiceHorn 32108]

1 minute ago, Knoxtnhorn said:

I've done 7 and 14 with two exceptions.  The part we discussed a few pages back where one can slide off the side of the trail and off a 40 foot ledge AND one part where you have to go down a really steep 40-ish foot decline.  I walked my bike through both.

Yep, those are the parts I avoid, except I'm not sure I got out on 14 because some or all of that off-camber is on 7.  The rest of it is no big deal.

That big decline is not so bad just by itself, but you have to hook a pretty hard right at the bottom of it and my "fear of runout" precludes that.  Also it was leafy as hell the one time I went out that far.

I did the climby part of the front of 7, but didn't go out along the creek.

[TwiceHorn 32108]

Welp furk.  Went to saddle up for OCNP this afternoon and I have another broken spoke in the rear.  I suppose I could ride on it, but don't really want to.  I fear this means that I am going to have a continuous stream of broken rear spokes until I replace them all or the wheel.  Maybe I should just cut to the chase.

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

Are they popping under torque, like accelerating out of a turn, or on impact? Are they breaking at the nipple? How often are you experiencing this?

Believe we discussed this upthread about a year ago, but some sealants (such as the old-formula Stan's) contain ammonia, which reacts with aluminum nipples and weakens them, ultimately causing them to pop under normal loads.

I went through this after I broke a spoke (sucked up a stick) and my bike shop cut corners on the repair. They just lifted the tape, replaced the broken nipple and spoke, and then slapped the tape back down. This resulted in a poor seal, and some old-formula Stan's seeped into the inner wheel and began attacking the spokes. Over the next couple of years, I would have spokes break simply from accelerating out of a turn or torquing up a steep incline--ordina-ry situations that should never lead to failure.

The shop never owned their mistake, so it turned into a good little moneymaker for them at $30 a pop for several spokes. I no longer use this shop and do my own taping/sealing. Stan's has revised their formula, too. Brass nipples also eliminate the problem.

Moral of the story is, replacing the wheel seems extreme. Just be sure the tape makes a proper seal going forward. You might have more spokes pop over time, but this should cease ... eventually.

 

[TwiceHorn 32108]

Well, the prior one, I think heard something and I found it while riding.  Whether it was actually popping that I heard or just the thing whanging around is unclear.

This one I just discovered while checking things out pre-ride.  Come to think of it though, I have recently caught some lumber back there.  I am usually most concerned about derailleur and hanger and each time of the 2-3  recent times I have picked something up, it was gone by the time I stopped and I didn't see anything but wasn't paying a great deal of attention to the spokes.

Last time one broke was not long after catching some stuff in the back.

Yep, I remember that story.  This one broke at the head. under the cassette, just like the last one.

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

Ah, OK.

I would definitely keep the wheel, but YMMV.

[TwiceHorn 32108]

Yeah I think odds are pretty good that it was popped by a stick or something, or at least weakened, in both cases.

I have heard stories of wheels that start popping spokes and basically never stop popping spokes because of something wrong with the rim.

I don't look forward to replacing these wheels because they are 29mm iw and weigh about 1900 grams (according to a couple of owners).  The hubs (formula) are crappy, I guess, but I'd have to spend quite a bit to duplicate the specs otherwise.

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

29er or 650b?

[TwiceHorn 32108]

29er.  I know those arent super-stellar specs, but to improve on them, other than the hubs, might require fairly substantial investment.

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

"Substantial" for a bum like me, or for an accomplished lawyer such as yourself?

These are what I'm rocking on my squishy--1512g for the pair with 29.3mm IW. Got them for $600 from an LBS. External walls are very thin and will dent if you're not careful through rocks, 

https://amclassic.com/index.php/wheels/650b-wide-lightning-pair.html

They also come 29er. The reg is 1569g and the BOOST version is 1611g.

And, yes, I'm being evil, cuz most upgrades are completely unnecessary. You should ride what you have until it falls apart.

[TwiceHorn 32108]

Well, I consider 750 (posted price) fairly substantial.  Plus, I would be forced to upgrade brakes as those are 6-bolt, and mine are centerlock.

So throw in another 150-250 for some DeOre brakes.

Also, if I upgraded wheels I would be tempted to get some loud-ass hubs, making it even worse.

And then I might also get an XD driver or microspline so I could run a 12-spd cassette.

And I'd have to upgrade my der and shifters.

And, well, fuck it I might as well buy a new bike.

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

You'd need new rotors, not new brakes. The brakes don't care whether your wheels are IS 6-bolt or Shimano Centerlock as long as rotor diameters are the same.

Shimano has 12-speed drivetrains now, although I don't know if American Classic has updated its hubs for 12-speed. I'm guessing yes, but that's merely a guess.

AC hubs aren't loud and they lack the high number of PoE that is all the rage. If you're a trials guru or riding super techy conditions, many PoE is critical. But if you're just grinding miles, XC style, PoE should be at the bottom of your priorities. (Not that you brought up PoE; I'm just slingin'.)

[wd40 1976]

8 hours ago, Braff Zacklin said:

And, yes, I'm being evil, cuz most upgrades are completely unnecessary. You should ride what you have until it falls apart.  "furthest from the truck" 

fixed for inevitability.

2x, unless it's getting in your head about whether your wheel can take the punishment, and thereby diminishing your confidence on the trail,  I would just fix the one you have.

is there something wrong with your front wheel?  seems like all the issues are in the back, which is not surprising given the torque load on top of just bouncing over stuff on the trail.  so if you decide to replace anything bigger than a spoke, that's all I'd do.  your front should be fine.  if having the match is the most important thing, you're more interested in fashion than riding.

I'm not familiar with those AC wheels, but just for grins, I went to prowheelbuilder and spec'd out the same rear wheel I built myself for my current bike, but set it for them to build.  I assumed Boost, which is a $16 adder to the hub.  I also assumed you don't need micro spline (no upcharge, anyway).  not feather-light, but smooth and bomb-proof, my dude.  ships by 3/31.  a new brake rotor would be another $30.  I don't recall different hub colors were an upcharge, but I didn't look beyond my default, black.

 

on your ladder drop question, you are correct.  it's not a ramp, though.  it's just a flat thing you ride off the end off.  minimal skill involved, just rocking back so's not to nose-dive.  you can practice on curbs.  land your rear a split second ahead of your front.  the difference to higher drops is having a little time to adjust while in the air.

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

Those Hadleys would be nice and buzzy ...

[TwiceHorn 32108]

10 hours ago, Braff Zacklin said:

You'd need new rotors, not new brakes. The brakes don't care whether your wheels are IS 6-bolt or Shimano Centerlock as long as rotor diameters are the same.

Shimano has 12-speed drivetrains now, although I don't know if American Classic has updated its hubs for 12-speed. I'm guessing yes, but that's merely a guess.

AC hubs aren't loud and they lack the high number of PoE that is all the rage. If you're a trials guru or riding super techy conditions, many PoE is critical. But if you're just grinding miles, XC style, PoE should be at the bottom of your priorities. (Not that you brought up PoE; I'm just slingin'.)

I was just being ridiculous.

And yeah, I'm going to fix this and just roll with it.  

I am almost certain it was provoked by a stick in my rear wheel just as the last one was.  Both times, after thinking about it, the immediately prior rides involved shrubbery and timber in the rear wheel.

Edited March 13, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

Sorry, man. You said the word. This response was practically automated.

 

[Al_4_ISU 12665]

Got first ride in yesterday. Was in a hurry and didn’t have bike set well nor tools to adjust. Wasn’t an epic year starter like last year. On my way back out today, hoping to beat ground thaw for the day. Should be safe until noon ish. Bike properly adjusted.

[TwiceHorn 32108]

Speaking of adjustment, since I started riding with actual MTB shoes (Adidas Trail Cross), it has felt like my seat was a little low.  The shoes have thicker soles or something and things just felt a tad cramped, but no tell-tale knee pain or anything.  Well, I raised my seat a half inch, but it didn't completely resolve the feeling.

Since the new year, a very slight twinge has appeared in my right knee above the knee, which has always been a sign to me of a low or forward seat.  So I moved my saddle back 1/8" inch.  Possibly not surprisingly, it has been sort of revelational.  Everything just feels better, almost like I finally unlocked the benefits of slack geometry.  Also, when I drop my seat, it feels more out of the way than it used to.

It constantly amazes me how seemingly tiny adjustments can change things.

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Speaking of adjustment, since I started riding with actual MTB shoes (Adidas Trail Cross), it has felt like my seat was a little low.  The shoes have thicker soles or something and things just felt a tad cramped, but no tell-tale knee pain or anything.

Five Ten, damnit. Adidas might be the parent company these days, but they'll always be Five Ten to me.

The stiffer soles help with efficiency and control. After rolling around on a pair of Impacts for seven seasons--rugged and bombproof but utter overkill for my needs--I finally invested in a pair of Freeriders. Not as stiff, but much lighter and more suitable for what I do.

Sounds like you're getting your cockpit dialed. Wait until you start messing with stem length and handlebar width/height/rise/sweep. On second thought, don't mess with that. At least saddle adjustments are free.

[TwiceHorn 32108]

Mine are actually Adidas.  They were discontinued as Adidas and thus the cheapest on the market.  They look a bit more like trail runners than skate shoes, which kind of fit my "aesthetic."  But they're black and look like orthopedic shoes to me.

But yeah they are a substantial improvement over trail runners.

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

Interesting. Do they have stealth rubber soles?

[TwiceHorn 32108]

Yes.  They are back with some changes in the Five Ten line now.

[Al_4_ISU 12665]

I’ve been riding with trail runners myself.

Ride 2 > Ride 1. Proper seat height, proper inflation, more sunshine. Dropper post shined on a big downhill. Had to cut out after an hour or so due to thaw, but I was licked if I’m being honest. This unseasonable cold has made for unexpectedly good riding. Next weekend looks good too.

[TwiceHorn 32108]

Brisk temps make for really nice riding.  That first half mile or so can be  . . . . chilly.

 

The couple of days last week when it got over 80 were an unpleasant surprise.  In another couple of months I'll be longing for 80.

Edited March 15, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Al_4_ISU 12665]

80 is my favorite riding temp. You guys probably had that the weekend we were in the 60’s.

[TwiceHorn 32108]

I really like about 60 the best.  Shorts and shirt sleeves aren't too chilly at first and the whole ride is comfy.  Below that starts to present a wardrobe dilemma, but it's preferable, to me, than much above 75.

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

Crisp air makes for brisk riding. I'm with Twice in that 60 and sunny seems most ideal for cycling (and even cooler for jogging or nordic skiing). Basically, if you get chilly within a few minutes standing still, that's the perfect time to be on the trails.

That said, 80 degrees can feel great if you're slathered in sweat and facing a headwind, and 70 degrees in a dead calm can feel like a freakin' oven. My worst rides are usually in May or June when prevailing winds shift and you're pedaling uphill without a headwind.

@Al_4_ISU Seriously consider some Five Tens or similar shoes. The stiffer soles help, but the extra grip from the Stealth rubber is a game changer. Your feet will feel glued to your flats.

[TwiceHorn 32108]

35 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Crisp air makes for brisk riding. I'm with Twice in that 60 and sunny seems most ideal for cycling (and even cooler for jogging or nordic skiing). Basically, if you get chilly within a few minutes standing still, that's the perfect time to be on the trails.

That said, 80 degrees can feel great if you're slathered in sweat and facing a headwind, and 70 degrees in a dead calm can feel like a freakin' oven. My worst rides are usually in May or June when prevailing winds shift and you're pedaling uphill without a headwind.

@Al_4_ISU Seriously consider some Five Tens or similar shoes. The stiffer soles help, but the extra grip from the Stealth rubber is a game changer. Your feet will feel glued to your flats.

Yeah, I am the epitome of a non-radical rider and they're a big improvement on climbs and just general riding.  You don't need to get any air to appreciate them.  The stiffness is a big help.  I was shocked at how stiff these are.

One thing good about the Trail Cross that may or may not apply to others is that big toe bumper.  I have had a couple of toe strikes in less sturdy shoes that hurt like shit.

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

Am I th only one still rolling with clipless pedals?  They were a revelation when I first got them and a pair of shoes.  I don't think I can ride serious without them anymore.

[TwiceHorn 32108]

Pretty sure wd rides clips.

Some poor newb sumbitch spiral fractured his tibia on a very non-radical section at Harry Moss Park last year because he couldn't unclip on a section with very mild exposure.  He apparently went skidding down it still clipped in,

[Al_4_ISU 12665]

Am I th only one still rolling with clipless pedals?  They were a revelation when I first got them and a pair of shoes.  I don't think I can ride serious without them anymore.

I’ve never mountain biked clipped in. At my shit-ass skill level clips are an injury guarantee

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

All the pedals I've used pretty much popped off easily and I've never had them stick on a crash.  Maybe if the tension is set to Max, but I always set mine to the minimum, then used crank brothers which are pretty much plug and play. To each his own, but if you've never tried them, I recommend it.  

[TwiceHorn 32108]

Yeah I'm sure the newb fuct it up every way possible.  I'm sure I would do the same.

[Al_4_ISU 12665]

I’ve rode road clipped for 6-7 years. Second time I was clipped was on RAGBRAI and I was creamed. Had a spectacularly comical slo-mo wreck in front of at least 50 people