The Surly Mountain Biking Thread

[Al_4_ISU 12377]

1 hour ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

Anyone got a good solution to keep the sweat out of your eyes? I use the old school rolled up blue bandanna and it works for right about an hour, but once it stops I'm practically blind. 

I gave up on this years ago.

Although, on road rides I often have a hat on under my helmet, and that tends to help.

[wd40 1976]

3 hours ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

Anyone got a good solution to keep the sweat out of your eyes? I use the old school rolled up blue bandanna and it works for right about an hour, but once it stops I'm practically blind. 

I use a Halo II, I think.  the logo wore off.  it's mostly neoprene but uses a soft plastic strip as a gutter to diver sweat outboard, toward your temples.  works pretty well.  better than a bandana, anyway.  REI carries it.

https://store.haloheadband.com/Halo-II-pullover-headband-p/hp.htm

more trail mutterings for 2x, below.  14 seconds off my PR.  the good news is my top speed improved to 26.2mph.  sloppy run.  I don't know if it's fear making things seem steeper irl, or the gopro just turns everything into a salt flat.  funny and frustrating.

 

[KuЯdt 248]

I used to use a Halo also, it worked well. I felt like it was giving me headaches though so I haven't used it in a long time.

[TwiceHorn 30852]

1 hour ago, wd40 said:

I use a Halo II, I think.  the logo wore off.  it's mostly neoprene but uses a soft plastic strip as a gutter to diver sweat outboard, toward your temples.  works pretty well.  better than a bandana, anyway.  REI carries it.

https://store.haloheadband.com/Halo-II-pullover-headband-p/hp.htm

more trail mutterings for 2x, below.  14 seconds off my PR.  the good news is my top speed improved to 26.2mph.  sloppy run.  I don't know if it's fear making things seem steeper irl, or the gopro just turns everything into a salt flat.  funny and frustrating.

 

Something about digital photography, still or moving, flattens things out.  I have a theory that it's the lack of "actual" focal length in compact cameras.  I'm guessing a DSLR wouldn't be as bad.

Edited May 6, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Braff Zacklin 13299]

8 hours ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

Anyone got a good solution to keep the sweat out of your eyes? I use the old school rolled up blue bandanna and it works for right about an hour, but once it stops I'm practically blind. 

Being a bald bastard, these are as critical to my cycling kit as a chamois:

Many different styles, colors, and thicknesses (i.e., I use one with heavier material for cold weather riding and a few lighter ones for warmer riding).

[Your Mom 4763]

Fellow bald bastard here and I use that same cap thing on cold days. Back when I had hair I used the headband version of the same product. There’s this foam band inside running across your forehead that both absorbs and diverts sweat. Another thing I’ve learned is to not put on sunblock or face lotion before a ride.  Not on my forehead anyway. I can handle some sweat in my eyes but when it mixes with the sunblock that’s when it stings. 

[wd40 1976]

a buddy of mine uses one of those, too.  I always assumed it would get saturated and eventually just let the sweat run on by.  seems like I've seen him wringing it out.

but the Halo does feel a little warm when you first put it on, and if you don't back your helmet off a couple clicks, it can definitely give you a squeeze.  and that rubber diverter stays stamped into your forehead skin for a while, post-ride.  so not perfect, by any means.

maybe I'll try the headsweat thing.

[TwiceHorn 30852]

I use a cotton bandana, do-rag style.  When it's hot, I wet it before the ride and even wet it's pretty good.  I guess though it's mostly the cooling that keeps me from sweating like a hog.  When/if I stop moving, though, first the glasses fog and then it's possible that the sweat starts to run.  That can be really debilitating.

And, I rarely ride longer than an hour and a half or so, so maybe not as long as some/all of you.

The synthetic/polyester may be advantageous, I don't know.

It took me quite a while to convert to polyester shirts, but I am mostly converted now, so I have been curious about those skullcaps for a while.

[KuЯdt 248]

17 hours ago, wd40 said:

more trail mutterings

I never realized that I also mutter (and cuss) to myself while riding, until I gopro'd a few solo rides.  I always end up laughing at what a goober I sound like whenever I hear myself unexpectedly narrating.  Must be the getting old thing.

That's another fun looking trail you were bombing down.

[TwiceHorn 30852]

17 hours ago, wd40 said:

I use a Halo II, I think.  the logo wore off.  it's mostly neoprene but uses a soft plastic strip as a gutter to diver sweat outboard, toward your temples.  works pretty well.  better than a bandana, anyway.  REI carries it.

https://store.haloheadband.com/Halo-II-pullover-headband-p/hp.htm

more trail mutterings for 2x, below.  14 seconds off my PR.  the good news is my top speed improved to 26.2mph.  sloppy run.  I don't know if it's fear making things seem steeper irl, or the gopro just turns everything into a salt flat.  funny and frustrating.

 

26 mph sounds rather frightening to me.  I could tell you were hauling balls by the trees going by.  Any idea how sustained that 26 mph was?  According to allmytrails, I was doing about 21 when I went OTB and smashed myself.  Didn't honestly feel scary fast, though.  Clearly fast enough to fuck me up when I pulled whatever false move I pulled.  I was finally able to survey the crash site and couldn't find anything that I might have hit and those stumps that I noticed right before didn't seem big enough to have pivoted me as happened.  My best guess now is that I a) wasn't as far back as I should have been and b) moved back forward in the runout so I had too much weight on the front, making things extra-sensitive.

I have noticed that I get kind of freaked out by speed when I'm descending and not powering it.  It feels like I'm just along for the ride. I find that if I just rotate my pedals a little, applying no power, if I can get away with it, it eases my mind.  It doesn't bother me as much if I am in full attack with pedals level, riding roots and drops and rocks, but if things smooth out, yikes.  Probably because I'm not going very fast.

[Braff Zacklin 13299]

 

@wd40 is right: whatever you're wearing will eventually get waterlogged and leak, but it's way, way better than not having anything. When I started buzzing my scalp 15 years ago, I quickly realized two of hair's evolutionary purposes are keeping your head warm in winter and directing sweat to your sideburns. No hairline means that sweat rolls down unimpeded, right into your eyes, but some sort of skullcap serves as the functional equivalent to a hairline. LOL

Not all skullcaps/headbands have that elastic/padded band, @Your Mom, and many are light and sheer enough for hot summer riding. And I can confirm your sunblock experience. Salty water in your eyes is bad enough, but sunscreen-laden sweat makes for an absolutely terrible time.

 

@TwiceHorn and @wd40, not to bruise any egos, but if you're using a GPS-based device to determine top speed, it's wholly unreliable, at least to a statistically significant degree of accuracy. For example, Strava tells me that I topped out at 28.2 mph on yesterday's ride, but it was probably a few less in reality.

On another recent ride, it said I hit something like 35 mph, and I doubt I was within 10 mph of that. GPS is remarkably convenient and effective, but you're still relying on satellites more than 12,000 miles above you to pinpoint your speed and location. That means on most days, it's good enough for estimating total distance traveled or average speed over a given distance, but pinpointing an exact speed at any moment in time exceeds its margin of error.

  That's not to say wd wasn't moving, cuz he was definitely booking. Not even the "GoPro effect" can diminish that.

20 hours ago, wd40 said:

more trail mutterings for 2x, below.  14 seconds off my PR.  the good news is my top speed improved to 26.2mph.  sloppy run.  I don't know if it's fear making things seem steeper irl, or the gopro just turns everything into a salt flat.  funny and frustrating.

Silky smooth on those rideoffs! Looks like a hell of a lot of fun ... except for the bit at about the 0:40 mark where you came close to eating shit. 😎

 

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Braff Zacklin

[TwiceHorn 30852]

18 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

 

@wd40 is right: whatever you're wearing will eventually get waterlogged and leak, but it's way, way better than not having anything. When I started buzzing my scalp 15 years ago, I quickly realized two of hair's evolutionary purposes are keeping your head warm in winter and directing sweat to your sideburns. No hairline means that sweat rolls down unimpeded, right into your eyes, but some sort of skullcap serves as the functional equivalent to a hairline. LOL

Not all skullcaps/headbands have that elastic/padded band, @Your Mom, and many are light and sheer enough for hot summer riding. And I can confirm your sunblock experience. Salty water in your eyes is bad enough, but sunscreen-laden sweat makes for an absolutely terrible time.

 

@TwiceHorn and @wd40, not to bruise any egos, but if you're using a GPS-based device to determine top speed, it's wholly unreliable, at least to a statistically significant degree of accuracy. For example, Strava tells me that I topped out at 28.2 mph on yesterday's ride, but it was probably a few less in reality.

On another recent ride, it said I hit something like 35 mph, and I doubt I was within 10 mph of that. GPS is remarkably convenient and effective, but you're still relying on satellites more than 12,000 miles above you to pinpoint your speed and location. That means on most days, it's good enough for estimating total distance traveled or average speed over a given distance, but pinpointing an exact speed at any moment in time exceeds its margin of error.

  That's not to say wd wasn't moving, cuz he was definitely booking. Not even the "GoPro effect" can diminish that.

Silky smooth on those rideoffs! Looks like a hell of a lot of fun ... except for the bit at about the 0:40 mark where you came close to eating shit. 😎

 

 

I'm aware on the GPS, especially on any instantaneous speed, but I think it comes fairly close on overall/average, I think I have seen people on DFW trails saying it's about 10% short on distance and thus average speed.

And yes, good observations on the functions of hair.  Most people don't realize how cold is rain.  Even on a warm day.

[Braff Zacklin 13299]

20 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I'm aware on the GPS, especially on any instantaneous speed, but I think it comes fairly close on overall/average, I think I have seen people on DFW trails saying it's about 10% short on distance and thus average speed.

The more twisty a trail, the less accurate GPS will be. I think distances on mapped segments are relatively accurate, though, so using GPS as a means for measuring overall distance or average speed over that distance is more than adequate.

[Pescado_Rojo 19270]

I got one of these and wire tied it to my handlebars. 

[wd40 1976]

yes, I thought about asterisking my speed number, but I figured by now we all understand the error spread on GPS devices, particularly phones, which is all I have.  the way I approach it is with relativity to previous runs.  it definitely felt faster in places, but was obviously not the cleanest run.  what was  surprising is where it happened.  usually my peak speed is coming into the trees of the jump into clearing, near the start (the first significant ramp).  last couple runs, I've throttled it back up there because the ramp has gotten bigger, and the trail drops away from it.  you can really get some sky under you on that one now, and I had a pretty good washout crash just before I got to the trees, several months ago.  I like to be very sure about not touching the gravel on the outside of that bottom curve, now.  this was maybe my third trip up there, since then.  anyway, the peak speed yesterday was down in the middle, somewhere.  probably on that g-out where I almost ate it.

anyhoo, last data point(s) on the headband thing:  my buddy who uses the headsweat actually had a halo on, today.  in terms of performance to it's intended purpose (keeping sweat out of your eyes), he says the halo is more effective.  the headsweat is more comfortable.  so there's the trade-off.  

I find that the halo is most comfortable if you have the gutter strip positioned below the edge of your helmet, so it's not getting pressed into you head so much.  this ends up putting the bottom edge of the neoprene halo band just above your eyebrows, which can feel odd, at first.  I actually remembered this on the trail today when I noticed my head getting squeezed (and not between the thighs of some smokin' hot starlet).

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

Someone was mentioning riding off ramps or a frame obstacles earlier 

Let's suppose I was re doing a deck and was going to have bits and pieces of solid scrap wood from the old deck and leftover scraps from the new deck?

What kind of obstacles should I build with it?  Any ideas.

[KuЯdt 248]

3 hours ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Someone was mentioning riding off ramps or a frame obstacles earlier 

Let's suppose I was re doing a deck and was going to have bits and pieces of solid scrap wood from the old deck and leftover scraps from the new deck?

What kind of obstacles should I build with it?  Any ideas.

 

Maim Frame

 

 

 

[KuЯdt 248]

Went out to Flat rock Ranch last Thursday with a buddy.  We rode both the upper and lower loops.  I think I agree with what YourMom said somewhere upthread - the upper loop really isn't all that fun.  I do like the lower one quite a bit and will probably stick with just that loop most of the time I'm there.

I got some GoPro footage, and this time I recorded in 4k/30.  The resulting file for the 4 1/2 minute video below was 7.7GB.  Think I'll go back to 2.7k as that is gonna eat up disk space fast.  I was pretty tired toward the end and the last few clips I had included the rookie mistake of having the camelback hose and strap in frame.

 

 

[wd40 1976]

pretty fast, for a cauc-casian

was that your stomach growling at 3:41?

[Pescado_Rojo 19270]

Took a mental health break from Zoom and got in a few laps at WilCo. Wanted to do three, but remembered about halfway through lap two that I didn't eat lunch. Had to eat my emergency stash of jelly beans to get home. 

[KuЯdt 248]

29 minutes ago, wd40 said:

was that your stomach growling at 3:41?

nah, was a chupacabra just off trail

[Braff Zacklin 13299]

3 hours ago, KuЯdt said:

Went out to Flat rock Ranch last Thursday with a buddy.  We rode both the upper and lower loops.

I got some GoPro footage, and this time I recorded in 4k/30.  The resulting file for the 4 1/2 minute video below was 7.7GB.  Think I'll go back to 2.7k as that is gonna eat up disk space fast.  I was pretty tired toward the end and the last few clips I had included the rookie mistake of having the camelback hose and strap in frame.

Love these vids. Looks super fun and flowy.

3 hours ago, KuЯdt said:

the rookie mistake of having the camelback hose and strap in frame.

This move is known as the "Braff."

[TwiceHorn 30852]

48 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

Took a mental health break from Zoom and got in a few laps at WilCo. Wanted to do three, but remembered about halfway through lap two that I didn't eat lunch. Had to eat my emergency stash of jelly beans to get home. 

I guess in the fall or early this year, I started intermittent fasting based partially on recommendations here.  Meaning, after dinner, I eat nothing until noon the following day, or, skipping breakfast.  When I started doing it, I wasn't riding in the mornings and it didn't occur to me that it might be an issue.  Once I started riding in the mornings again I thought that was going to savage my  rides, but it hasn't. 

I get these "protein bars" from Tom Thumb/Randalls, their signature brand, that are nuts with a bit of chocolate and sweet shit binding them together.  Not as expensive as a lot of the energy bars and, while not high tech, higher in protein and lower in sugar than some of the candy-type bars.  They seem to be really good for preventing a bonk or coming back from one.  They also seem relatively easy on the stomach.  I don't have a sensitive stomach, but I can feel pretty gross after eating on the trail, sometimes even drinking.

When I first started riding during the "fasting," I'd cheat or break the fast with a bar, or an apple or orange, on the way to the trail.  Now I don't even eat one, just carry it along in case. So far so good, but, as we've established, I don't do epic rides.

[Pescado_Rojo 19270]

Yea, I think my problem was I didn’t eat much breakfast either...because I was planning on eating lunch. I ended up on zoom calls from 8:30 to 2:00, then said “fuck this, I’m going for a ride”. On the bright side I finally figured out the line on one of the rocky ledge climbs out of that creek bed. Cleaned it both times, so yay me. 

[TwiceHorn 30852]

4 hours ago, KuЯdt said:

Went out to Flat rock Ranch last Thursday with a buddy.  We rode both the upper and lower loops.  I think I agree with what YourMom said somewhere upthread - the upper loop really isn't all that fun.  I do like the lower one quite a bit and will probably stick with just that loop most of the time I'm there.

I got some GoPro footage, and this time I recorded in 4k/30.  The resulting file for the 4 1/2 minute video below was 7.7GB.  Think I'll go back to 2.7k as that is gonna eat up disk space fast.  I was pretty tired toward the end and the last few clips I had included the rookie mistake of having the camelback hose and strap in frame.

 

 

It's kind of funny how alien those long open stretches of nearly straight are to me.  I guess it's just a matter of acclimating to them, but because most of our riding is in the shade, our little stretches of sunny open space kind of beat my ass

[TwiceHorn 30852]

I have kind of an oddball question.

I'm old (54).  I'm not in great shape or particularly strong.  Nor am I fast.

I don't push myself too hard in terms of distance or time riding.

But, I kind of feel like I do go kind of hard while I am riding.  Like maybe 3/4 full effort mostly the whole time.  I kind of feel like I don't know how to pace myself or slow down.  So that sometimes when conditions push me, like heat, or bigger climbs or some combination of things, I get unduly winded or tired.  I'm either going pretty good or stopped.

Kind of an example of this is, as mentioned above, as I have gotten stronger with consistent riding, I click up 2-3-4 gears from where I would have been when I started for pedaling in the straight and flat.  And I usually won't gear down again until I hit something steep, and even then probably not as much as I should.  I tend not to downshift until I start to mash, which is a habit going back to elementary school (as a ringmeat kid on my Schwinn Fastback five-speed, it just felt better to me to be mashing than spinning).

I should say this is on a familiar trail.  On a new or unfamiliar trail, I go slow and stop a lot just as a matter of being careful and fearful.  And it kind of annoys me, which is kind of the flip-side of this.

Is this a thing?  Does anyone else experience this?  Any tips to avoid?

Kind of an example that comes to mind is this.  When I was 11, I did a mile swim at Camp Longhorn.  It was the first time I had ever done such a thing.  I was a decent swimmer, reasonably proficient in all the strokes except butterfly, and was advised to use some of the "rest strokes."  But, I didn't.  I crawled the whole time.  I put up a mediocre time and was dizzy as hell from turning my head the whole time and worn out when I finished.  I can't say I am balls out the whole time, but I make things harder on myself than I should, if that makes sense.

Edited May 9, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Al_4_ISU 12377]

Quite a morning thus far. I got up early to hit the trail system down by Waterloo that I posted around Xmas. Beautiful day, and I had the place to myself. Goal was to ride the entire park (10 miles or so). About 1/3rd of the way through, I accidentally go off trail into a little rock garden. Suddenly my chain pops off, so I go to reattach it and see that one link is starting to come apart, and the loose part was catching on the derailer.

 

I walked out to the car (surprisingly easy due to an access path that cuts through the winding maze of trails) and ran into Cedar Falls, where the closest bike shop was. 30 minutes later I was back on the trail and finished my ride.

 

This is becoming one of my favorite trail systems. What it lacks in brutal climbs, wild descents, and rugged beauty it makes up for with awesome flow, the ability to ride fast, and a pastoral quietness. Only bummer was I was clearly a week behind the peak of the blue bells. I almost took another lap, but I’ve got a 40 mile road ride coming up at 2.

 

 

 

 

[Al_4_ISU 12377]

I have kind of an oddball question.
I'm old (54).  I'm not in great shape or particularly strong.  Nor am I fast.
I don't push myself too hard in terms of distance or time riding.
But, I kind of feel like I do go kind of hard while I am riding.  Like maybe 3/4 full effort mostly the whole time.  I kind of feel like I don't know how to pace myself or slow down.  So that sometimes when conditions push me, like heat, or bigger climbs or some combination of things, I get unduly winded or tired.  I'm either going pretty good or stopped.
Kind of an example of this is, as mentioned above, as I have gotten stronger with consistent riding, I click up 2-3-4 gears from where I would have been when I started for pedaling in the straight and flat.  And I usually won't gear down again until I hit something steep, and even then probably not as much as I should.  I tend not to downshift until I start to mash, which is a habit going back to elementary school (as a ringmeat kid on my Schwinn Fastback five-speed, it just felt better to me to be mashing than spinning).
I should say this is on a familiar trail.  On a new or unfamiliar trail, I go slow and stop a lot just as a matter of being careful and fearful.  And it kind of annoys me, which is kind of the flip-side of this.
Is this a thing?  Does anyone else experience this?  Any tips to avoid?
Kind of an example that comes to mind is this.  When I was 11, I did a mile swim at Camp Longhorn.  It was the first time I had ever done such a thing.  I was a decent swimmer, reasonably proficient in all the strokes except butterfly, and was advised to use some of the "rest strokes."  But, I didn't.  I crawled the whole time.  I put up a mediocre time and was dizzy as hell from turning my head the whole time and worn out when I finished.  I can't say I am balls out the whole time, but I make things harder on myself than I should, if that makes sense.

I relate to this. I often make things harder for myself than I need to, and don’t seem particularly interested in learning the easy way. I usually come around, but have to beat myself up first. This unfortunately is true for all aspects of life.

I’m also hesitant and slow on new trails. At least ones that I anticipate having some level of sneaky danger. I don’t even want to change that habit, really. Avoiding injury is a really priority, personally. I don’t have time to lay around rehabbing something stupid and avoidable.

[TwiceHorn 30852]

21 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I relate to this. I often make things harder for myself than I need to, and don’t seem particularly interested in learning the easy way. I usually come around, but have to beat myself up first. This unfortunately is true for all aspects of life.

I’m also hesitant and slow on new trails. At least ones that I anticipate having some level of sneaky danger. I don’t even want to change that habit, really. Avoiding injury is a really priority, personally. I don’t have time to lay around rehabbing something stupid and avoidable.

One of the reasons I ask is that I don't ride long in terms of time or distance usually.  I'd like to change that, particularly with the free time I have.

I basically don't let myself ride less than 5-6 miles for an hour or so.  But I rarely go beyond 11 or 12.  I'm not exhausted or my legs burning in most cases, I just mentally don't want to do another lap that would be necessary, it sounds boring.  Also, I know or anticipate that if I go again, I may hit one of those little walls and the ride might become a bit of a death march.  Most of the time I recover from those bursts pretty rapidly with no ill effects, but sometimes I just kind of bonk after them.  It's a bit unpredictable when or whether that will happen.  Riding alone is probably a big factor here, too.

I'm not sure why I care.  I'm not a heart rate junkie, but my resting is around 60 and I stay around 120 on most of my rides, peaking here and there at 140 to 160, which I think is pretty much a max for me.  So I think I'm doing myself good physically and having fun, so maybe I shouldn't seek to change anything except to acquire steezy skillz.

Also, totally agreed on risk.  Been there, done that and survived ok, but it wasn't much fun and damned expensive.  I feel like when I'm tired or bored I am prone to making mistakes.  I also admit that I'm not terribly mentally or physically tough in terms of pushing myself.  Being winded can be very unpleasant for me I guess because of childhood asthma.

I guess I want to do what the cool kids do.

Edited May 9, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Dbeasy 14807]

I always try to push myself harder than I need to because I’m trying to get that feeling of having had a good workout as fast as possible. But I also don’t go for long rides.

I think for me it’s a subconscious effort to get a decent workout done in a short amount of time. I don’t have the type of personality to spend a lot of time doing one thing. I want to get onto the next thing I need to get done.

I also am very risk averse on the trails because I just can’t handle any more injuries. It seems like I always have something messed up: knee, shoulder, neck, etc.

[TwiceHorn 30852]

36 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I always try to push myself harder than I need to because I’m trying to get that feeling of having had a good workout as fast as possible. But I also don’t go for long rides.

I think for me it’s a subconscious effort to get a decent workout done in a short amount of time. I don’t have the type of personality to spend a lot of time doing one thing. I want to get onto the next thing I need to get done.

I also am very risk averse on the trails because I just can’t handle any more injuries. It seems like I always have something messed up: knee, shoulder, neck, etc.

A lot of this is applicable to me.  I must be a little bit ADD.  Maybe it's just habit that has me doing hour-or-so rides and I try to maximize the workout in that time.  It's really a 2-2.5 hour commitment with prep, travel, and cleanup time.

Most of the time, my riding is scheduled around work.  I'm not terribly anxious to get back to work or "to the next thing," but it would feel irresponsible not to. Hell, I feel irresponsible riding sometimes just because it makes me "late" for work.  I get kind of a schoolboy giggle out of taking a work call or email on the trail. 

If I'm stuck in a big project, I'll either finish it or reach a milestone before letting myself ride.  I almost never ride before I have something scheduled unless I have plenty of time (like hours) to complete the ride, get home, shower up, and recover.

Edited May 9, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 30852]

Posting this from the snek thread because this is almost certainly the type of blek snek I saw reported above.

A lot of mtbers post there too, but in case you wondered.

[wd40 1976]

re:  wood projects

much easier to build than to use.  I should probably put a safety rope on it to keep from flipping over backwards, thereby allowing me to be a little more aggressive with it.  a lot more of a physical workout than I thought it would be.

I did manage hold a few manuals for 5-6 seconds, but only if I cheated and mashed on the rear brake once I got up.

 

[TwiceHorn 30852]

30 minutes ago, wd40 said:

re:  wood projects

much easier to build than to use.  I should probably put a safety rope on it to keep from flipping over backwards, thereby allowing me to be a little more aggressive with it.  a lot more of a physical workout than I thought it would be.

I did manage hold a few manuals for 5-6 seconds, but only if I cheated and mashed on the rear brake once I got up.

 

Nice.

I am gratified that a guy that can climb chunk like you can has difficulty manualing.  Also gratifying that looping out is an issue for you.

🤬🤬

Edited May 10, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[wd40 1976]

I think the deal is it's a lot easier to  'pop a wheel' when you're rolling, especially on a 29er, because you can pedal it up.  can't do that with the back wheel fixed.  it's much more upper body and throwing your weight back.  there's also flexing your knees that changes the dynamics.  you don't even notice how much you're also lifting your body weight during a manual until you get on this thing.  so it's very different from real trail conditions, where you have a lot to manage quickly, beyond these background details.  

my goal in building this was to find and learn to hold that balance point.  I definitely suck at that.  I'm good for 5 or 6 pedal strokes on a wheelie.  and clipped in, over-rotating can really suck if you forget to cover the rear brake.  

I've always thought of it more as a show-off move, than a practical tool for trail riding.  we'll see how much use I get out of it, but I'm enjoying the process, so far.

Edited May 11, 2020 by wd40

[Braff Zacklin 13299]

4 minutes ago, wd40 said:

but I'm enjoying the process, so far.

Seems like you've been enjoying the Process for years now.

[TwiceHorn 30852]

8 minutes ago, wd40 said:

I think the deal is it's a lot easier to  'pop a wheel' when you're rolling, especially on a 29er, because you can pedal it up.  can't do that with the back wheel fixed.  it's much more upper body and throwing your weight back.  there's also flexing your knees that changes the dynamics.  you don't even notice how much you're also lifting your body weight during a manual until you get on this thing.  so it's very different from real trail conditions, where you have a lot to manage quickly, beyond these background details.  

my goal in building this was to find and learn to hold that balance point.  I definitely suck.  I'm good for 5 or 6 pedal strokes on a wheelie.  and clipped in, over-rotating can really suck if you forget to cover the rear brake.  

I've always thought of it more as a show-off move, than a practical tool for trail riding.  we'll see how much use I get out of it, but I'm enjoying the process, so far.

I would have thought a pedal stroke with the back wheel chocked would still give you some "up."

Nevertheless, I agree that a plain manual seems like just a showoff move.  But some of the instructors say that it's the forward part of a bunny hop, which is actually useful, I think.  It has been "sold" to me as useful.

But, like you, if I could get comfortable throwing my weight back that hard that I wouldn't over rotate, especially pointed uphill, I think that could be useful.  But, I think I'm too old, heavy, slow, unathletic and lack sufficient "bike proprioception" that I'll probably never be able to employ any of these moves on the trail.

Edited May 11, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Braff Zacklin 13299]

Manuals have a great deal of utility. Wheelies do not.*

 

* I can do neither. Six or seven cranks is all I can manage with a wheelie**, and shifting my weight rearward enough for a manual (or forward enough for a stoppie) seems as unnatural as breathing under water. 

** Couple of kids rolled by the house yesterday as I was having beers on the porch with a buddy. They noticed our bikes, popped wheelies, and held them for the next two or three blocks (as far as we could see). Now that's showing off.

[TwiceHorn 30852]

My closest experience to BMX was a Sting Ray Jr. (20" wheels) with knobbies, BMX bars, and a "10-speed saddle."  I was in maybe 5th or 6th grade.  I was already too big for the bike, but not nearly what I'd be now, as I am a foot taller and about twice the weight.

Given our youth and the lack of forums to talk about shit on, you just kind of learned to wheelie.  I could wheelie pretty good on that thing and keep it for a while, like half a block.  Funny thing is, unlike a lot of people, I'd stop pedaling to avoid spinning and wobbling, so it kind of became a manual.  I didn't know I was putting my weight behind the center of gravity of the bike to get i up and holding it over the c/g to keep it there, I just magically sort of figured out what to do.  I could jump a little, too, off a sweet little ramp.  Not near as well as some of my daredevil friends, but I was comfortable with it.

Anyway, I have no feeling anymore like I did then, for the balance point or any other aspect of balance on a bike.  I guess because I quit riding one from about 8th grade to about 20th grade or so.  And it was about 45th grade before I started off-roading where stunts became useful and worth learning or re-learning.  That's too long a layoff.

[wd40 1976]

1 hour ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Seems like you've been enjoying the Process for years now.

 

but yeah, 50 is not the ideal age to try to learn all this stuff, esp with zero BMX background.  kids just learn it so easily, and some are just freaks of nature.  probably 12 years ago, I remember heading to a ride on 2222 and waiting at the City Park Road light when one of the OG Austin mtb badasses wheelied all the way around the turn with the traffic making the left off CP road onto 2222.   just ridiculous.  dude is still shredding.  

[MaclovioBrown 100]

On 2/22/2020 at 7:57 PM, MaclovioBrown said:

Took about an hour to build and $30. My manual training has begun.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

I had such high hopes for mine back in Feb. Its a nice warped bike stand now. 

[wd40 1976]

because...you graduated from it, or it was ineffective?

I was pretty sure someone had tried one of these, but I couldn't remember what page it was on, or who it was.

nice bike, btw.   

[TwiceHorn 30852]

Those that ride already know it, but skilled MTB riding takes quite a lot of athleticism.  I've never been much of a natural athlete.  Partly my brain gets in the way, partly I'm just a slow-twitch dude.  But I can become average to above-average by practice and repetition.

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

I just walk shit I can't ride with no shame at all.  Of course I ride SS full rigid, so I have an excuse.  (Preemptive Your mom joke)

[MaclovioBrown 100]

6 hours ago, wd40 said:

because...you graduated from it, or it was ineffective?

I was pretty sure someone had tried one of these, but I couldn't remember what page it was on, or who it was.

nice bike, btw.   

I lost interest for a time, but not ready to send it to the fire pit just yet. Thanks to your post I’ll put some time into it this weekend. 

[TwiceHorn 30852]

3 hours ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

I just walk shit I can't ride with no shame at all.  Of course I ride SS full rigid, so I have an excuse.  (Preemptive Your mom joke)

Yeah, but with that bike, you already got your balls dragging the ground.

Not sure why, exactly, but I took the last 10 days off;  I would have thought it was just a week, but alltrails told me different.  There were maybe 1 or 2 days that it rained.  It's been on the hot side and I have been sleeping kind of funny so I don't really feel rested or energetic.  Maybe I got the rona.

Went out to River Legacy, the paved trail painted to look like dirt, and did my sort of minimum 6.5 miles in a kind of surprising 45 minutes.  Despite its flatness, it has some bits and is kind of flowy as far as the twisties.  It's a good place to carve and test your limits on turns.

Kind of funny, given our wooden structure discussion, there's a just flat, not skinny thing sitting out in the middle of the trail.  It may bypass what can be a muddy section, I don't know.  One of those WTF things.  Well, I hadn't ridden River Legacy in a while and that thing actually had about a foot drop off it at the end that caught me by surprise a little.  I sort of belatedly popped off it and didn't land straight and almost ate it.

Felt good to be back out and I did another little loop and was actually kind of tired after riding not quite an hour.  I have to ride at least five miles and/or an hour unless something goes wrong, pretty much no exceptions.

[KuЯdt 248]

16 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Those that ride already know it, but skilled MTB riding takes quite a lot of athleticism.  I've never been much of a natural athlete.  Partly my brain gets in the way, partly I'm just a slow-twitch dude.  But I can become average to above-average by practice and repetition.

I think you mentioned earlier you tend to go hard on shorter rides and sometimes bonk.  Warning:   NSCSB ahead.  Back in college, I raced XC for a few years.  I started in cat 3 (though back then it was A, B, and C instead of Cat1, 2, and 3).  The C races were usually 8-10 miles, and they were nothing more than a sprint.  I always finished middle of the pack.

Then I got sick the day before the A&M race and didn't think I would enter.  Felt a little better the morning of, but I missed the start of my race.  So I entered the B race, even though that meant I couldn't ever go back down to C.  Those races were 16-20 miles, and were more about endurance...no one could sprint that distance.  I didn't do well in that first one as I had bad calf cramps and had to stop a couple times to work those out.   got passed by one of the Cat1 women who started 10 minutes after us too.  she was fast.

I got much better results after that, usually top 10, with a number of top 5's and even a couple of podiums.

Point being, I realized that my strength was more in endurance riding.  It always takes me a few miles to feel good on a ride.  If you are a slow-twitch dude, you might want to do some longer rides and see how you feel on those.

[TwiceHorn 30852]

17 minutes ago, KuЯdt said:

I think you mentioned earlier you tend to go hard on shorter rides and sometimes bonk.  Warning:   NSCSB ahead.  Back in college, I raced XC for a few years.  I started in cat 3 (though back then it was A, B, and C instead of Cat1, 2, and 3).  The C races were usually 8-10 miles, and they were nothing more than a sprint.  I always finished middle of the pack.

Then I got sick the day before the A&M race and didn't think I would enter.  Felt a little better the morning of, but I missed the start of my race.  So I entered the B race, even though that meant I couldn't ever go back down to C.  Those races were 16-20 miles, and were more about endurance...no one could sprint that distance.  I didn't do well in that first one as I had bad calf cramps and had to stop a couple times to work those out.   got passed by one of the Cat1 women who started 10 minutes after us too.  she was fast.

I got much better results after that, usually top 10, with a number of top 5's and even a couple of podiums.

Point being, I realized that my strength was more in endurance riding.  It always takes me a few miles to feel good on a ride.  If you are a slow-twitch dude, you might want to do some longer rides and see how you feel on those.

I should probably stop bloviating about this, but people are commenting and I'm a little bored, so I won't.

I am definitely curious about rides out to 20 miles or so.  I'm not going to contend that I have great or good endurance, so I can't really say that's my thing.  But, yeah, I get where you're coming from.  I've never really experienced saddle soreness, but I'm not really sure I have ever ridden long enough to test my saddle fit and ass-hardness.  I usually have no need for a chamois.

Just like my brain makes me ponder and post about stupid stuff like this, it interferes with my riding.  I overthink the "penalty for failure dude" and what could go wrong and everything else.  I actually have pretty good reflexes and instincts when things happen fast enough that I can't engage my brain.  But I can't seem to turn it off at will.  My brain makes me get bored or think I'll get bored.  It makes me uncomfortable at anything approaching VO2max.  It makes me worry about mistakes when I'm tired.  I have never REALLY bonked with the messed up blood sugar, dizziness and all.  I just get tired enough that my brain, probably more than my body, loses desire to continue.

All in all, I still enjoy riding despite my brain's interference.  So I should just quit worrying and learn to love the bomb.

[Pescado_Rojo 19270]

24 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I should probably stop bloviating about this, but people are commenting and I'm a little bored, so I won't.

I am definitely curious about rides out to 20 miles or so.  I'm not going to contend that I have great or good endurance, so I can't really say that's my thing.  But, yeah, I get where you're coming from.  I've never really experienced saddle soreness, but I'm not really sure I have ever ridden long enough to test my saddle fit and ass-hardness.  I usually have no need for a chamois.

Just like my brain makes me ponder and post about stupid stuff like this, it interferes with my riding.  I overthink the "penalty for failure dude" and what could go wrong and everything else.  I actually have pretty good reflexes and instincts when things happen fast enough that I can't engage my brain.  But I can't seem to turn it off at will.  My brain makes me get bored or think I'll get bored.  It makes me uncomfortable at anything approaching VO2max.  It makes me worry about mistakes when I'm tired.  I have never REALLY bonked with the messed up blood sugar, dizziness and all.  I just get tired enough that my brain, probably more than my body, loses desire to continue.

All in all, I still enjoy riding despite my brain's interference.  So I should just quit worrying and learn to love the bomb.

I do the same thing. I think that comes with our age and the fact that it sounds like we both ride alone a lot. One of my goals this year is to get my bike handling back to where it was when I was younger, and to that end when I encounter new obstacles I've stopped, gotten off the bike and walked them and looked at the lines. Sometimes it takes a few tries to find the right one, but I'm doing my best not to just take the bailout and keep riding every time. I find walking it with a mind for how you'd ride it shortens the learning curve (and in some cases reinforces that the bailout might be the best choice) 

[wd40 1976]

besides safety, the other problem with solo riding is spending too much time in your own head.  you are much more aware of your fatigue, for one thing.  and that first 15 minutes before you're warmed up can just kill your motivation for the rest of the ride.  I'm speaking from my own experience, but I see from some of the remarks above, it's not that unusual.  it's also extremely difficult and unsafe to push technical limits, solo.  I only do it when I'm warmed up and feeling really good.  when things aren't going well, I generally won't try anything big/stupid/new.  then I end up in the habit of bailing, and that sucks.

with time schedules being what they are, I get it:  it's the only alternative, much of the time.  in that case, I suggest ear buds.  just loud enough to quiet the brain voices and let you shift more of your focus to the trail, and as far down it as you can see.

manual machine is paying off already.  wheelied about 50 feet up my driveway, yesterday.  normally, I wouldn't even try it on pavement.  of course, I only managed to go that far one time.  but in general, I feel a lot more in control than I did before.