The Surly Mountain Biking Thread

[Pescado_Rojo 19270]

39 minutes ago, wd40 said:

besides safety, the other problem with solo riding is spending too much time in your own head.  you are much more aware of your fatigue, for one thing.  and that first 15 minutes before you're warmed up can just kill your motivation for the rest of the ride.  I'm speaking from my own experience, but I see from some of the remarks above, it's not that unusual.  it's also extremely difficult and unsafe to push technical limits, solo.  I only do it when I'm warmed up and feeling really good.  when things aren't going well, I generally won't try anything big/stupid/new.  then I end up in the habit of bailing, and that sucks.

with time schedules being what they are, I get it:  it's the only alternative, much of the time.  in that case, I suggest ear buds.  just loud enough to quiet the brain voices and let you shift more of your focus to the trail, and as far down it as you can see.

manual machine is paying off already.  wheelied about 50 feet up my driveway, yesterday.  normally, I wouldn't even try it on pavement.  of course, I only managed to go that far one time.  but in general, I feel a lot more in control than I did before.

Funny you mention that as I just started wearing mine a couple weeks ago and it really does help.

When I was younger and much more serious about it, I always tried to ride with guys that were better than me. I felt like I got better a lot faster when the options were "get better or get dropped". I can't do that as much anymore, so I find myself competing against strangers on Strava. Not really the same, as those strangers aren't going to teach me the lines I need, but it does fuel the competitive fires a little.  

I'll also add this...In my 30ish years of off and on mountain biking, I've never had a serious accident in really technical terrain*. That's not to say I haven't had any wrecks, but I'm usually going  fairly slow and pretty focused, so when I go down it's usually just falling over and catching myself. All my major crashes have either been from part failure (cutting a tire and tacoing my front wheel coming down hill of life), or more often from me getting lazy or distracted in an area I know well and drifting off line, or hitting an obstacle that shouldn't be there. 

 

*probably just jinxed myself

Edited May 12, 2020 by Pescado_Rojo

[wd40 1976]

1 hour ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

I do the same thing. I think that comes with our age and the fact that it sounds like we both ride alone a lot. One of my goals this year is to get my bike handling back to where it was when I was younger, and to that end when I encounter new obstacles I've stopped, gotten off the bike and walked them and looked at the lines. Sometimes it takes a few tries to find the right one, but I'm doing my best not to just take the bailout and keep riding every time. I find walking it with a mind for how you'd ride it shortens the learning curve (and in some cases reinforces that the bailout might be the best choice) 

you're on a 29er, right?  those tires, and modern (slacker) geometry will bridge a lot of those bumps and holes, making some drops easier to ride than walk.  it's hard for us old farts to learn to trust the bike, esp if most of your experience is on old school geo with small wheels and short, twitch bars.

[Pescado_Rojo 19270]

11 minutes ago, wd40 said:

you're on a 29er, right?  those tires, and modern (slacker) geometry will bridge a lot of those bumps and holes, making some drops easier to ride than walk.  it's hard for us old farts to learn to trust the bike, esp if most of your experience is on old school geo with small wheels and short, twitch bars.

yep. And when I say walk, I mean I'll walk it without the bike, look at the lines and visualize where I want to go, then go try it. I agree with you 100% on the modern 29er. I'm still learning to trust it, and I've been on it a few years now. I actually had a bit of a breakthrough climbing some rocky steps. I completely mis-timed it and thought I was about to go down, but that big front wheel rolled right over it. It's kind of changed the way I ride that section of trail. I'm focusing a lot less on trying to pull up the front wheel, and now try and focus on maintaining traction and let the 29" wheel do it's thing. 

[KuЯdt 248]

I noticed the benefits of a slacker, longer bike pretty quickly on my new ride.  It is much more composed than my Tallboy with the old school geo, narrow bars, and shorter wheelbase.  It was also a size too small for me I think.  I'm much more confident going down steep stuff now, and it is lots of fun.

The wider bars finally got me though.  I caught them on a tree 1 mile into a ride the other day and crashed into some brush.  then did it again 2 miles later.  It was one of those days where I just wasn't feeling it and lack of concentration got me.

[Al_4_ISU 12377]

Just a spectacular day to ride. Low 70’s, not a cloud in the sky. Had a weirdly drowsy ride. Dawned on me halfway through that literally every other time I ride I’m sipping on caffeine before. Still had fun. Good to know, I guess.

[TwiceHorn 30852]

Well, like Braff said a while back, sometimes you're on and sometimes you're not.

I had that really fast, energetic ride on a day I didn't sleep great and almost didn't even ride because I felt kind of blah.  I have had good rides that should have been blah and blah rides that should have been good, based on "preparation."

Last couple of weeks have gotten to the mid- upper-80s, even 90ish, and humidity has been bad.  I'm just not quite ready for that.  I need to ride in it in preparation for temps to come, but it just sounds bad.

I rode mild standby Harry Moss Thursday and it was just fine in the shade, but has brief bright spots and I was just "ugh no."

[Al_4_ISU 12377]

I ran my first 10K in a year on Tuesday, and was busting ass fixing waterways (farmer shit) yesterday, so I was probably more tired than I realized.

[TwiceHorn 30852]

I should have ridden today, but found myself actually doing a couple of hours of continuous work (it's been more sporadic than that, generally) and by the time I finished, the temp said 84.  I went out later to take my bike off the rack and it felt pretty good, so probably a mistake.

It's going to rain most of the weekend and probably put the trails out of commission until late next week.

I did have kind of an interesting experience Thursday.  I am aware that trying to stop on gravel or loose surfaces can be hazardous.  But I was tooling along pretty good on this section and there was a switchback turn around a tree. I wasn't fully paying attention and thought I was cutting my left bar end too close to the tree and didn't want to correct right because of the immediate left turn after.  So, I braked pretty firmly and was just going to do that slow thing around the tree.

Well, the surface there has railroad ballast type gravel or rocks on it, as a bit of armor.  Not really what you consider loose as it's one very thin layer.  Nevertheless, I washed out front and rear and wound up slamming my shoulder and arm into that tree.  Startled the shit out of me.  Didn't really hurt, but am glad it was not my broken shoulder (which should be fully healed and probably stronger than OEM, but still).

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

Not sure if it's already been mentioned in this thread, but REI is having a pretty big sale over the next 10 days. Thinking about getting a Co-op DRT 1.1:

https://www.rei.com/product/162208/co-op-cycles-drt-11-bike

I'm pretty new at all of this, but I've gotten pretty obsessed with watching some of the videos in this thread. There are so many places to bike out here in the Phoenix area, and I know a few people that go on a regular basis, so I'm pretty excited to dive into this. 

[TwiceHorn 30852]

49 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Not sure if it's already been mentioned in this thread, but REI is having a pretty big sale over the next 10 days. Thinking about getting a Co-op DRT 1.1:

https://www.rei.com/product/162208/co-op-cycles-drt-11-bike

I'm pretty new at all of this, but I've gotten pretty obsessed with watching some of the videos in this thread. There are so many places to bike out here in the Phoenix area, and I know a few people that go on a regular basis, so I'm pretty excited to dive into this. 

If you are reasonably sure you will stick with it, you should maybe double or triple your budget and maybe consider a used bike.

Phoenix area has enough pretty hardcore trails that a better bike, with an air fork and some upgradeability will make your riding more pleasant and stave off entire-bike upgrades for years.

I say used because I am pretty sure there's a big community there and a lot to choose from. Pinkbike.com is the place to look.

If you just want to dip your toes in and don't want to spend 1000 plus unless and until you are sure you'll like it, that's legit.  But you'll be looking at an entire bike upgrade within a year.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

15 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

If you are reasonably sure you will stick with it, you should maybe double or triple your budget and maybe consider a used bike.

Phoenix area has enough pretty hardcore trails that a better bike, with an air fork and some upgradeability will make your riding more pleasant and stave off entire-bike upgrades for years.

I say used because I am pretty sure there's a big community there and a lot to choose from. Pinkbike.com is the place to look.

If you just want to dip your toes in and don't want to spend 1000 plus unless and until you are sure you'll like it, that's legit.  But you'll be looking at an entire bike upgrade within a year.

Thanks for the feedback. Barring something unforeseen, I don't see any reason I wouldn't stick with it. With that being said, I am surprised to hear you say that based on what I heard from reviews, and from the guy at the used bike shop I've been going to. What are your thoughts on the brand? The 1.2 version of that bike is about $350 more:

https://www.rei.com/product/159855/co-op-cycles-drt-12-bike

I'll definitely check out the pinkbike.com, but just out of curiosity, are there any brands that you would recommend? Brands you would stay away from? I would be willing to double the budget if I have to but I don't think I'm ready to triple it. I made my original post after doing a little research and talking to the guy at REI and the used bike shop right next to my place. 

Edited May 16, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

[wd40 1976]

all of what 2x said.

I mean, you could ride what you linked, but in AZ, I'd be thinking about cactus, which means tubeless, and I don't know if what you have there is tubeless-ready.  I would talk to your buddies and see what they ride.

at a glance, with that old school square bottom bracket, there are probably some other old school parts that will limit the upgradability or even repair (straight-gauge stem/head tube preventing a meaningful fork upgrade, etc.).  also, my wife and daughter have entry-level bikes with the same chinesium crankset/bb which has riveted chain rings, which means replacing the whole crankset when the teeth wear out.  but they don't do dirt, so it's not a big deal for the resident bike mechanic, who happens to have a bunch of serviceable but old upgrade parts to swap in there when the time comes.  

bottom line:   it's an entry-level bike, built with the expectation you'll dump it for something better if you get into riding dirt at all.  newness doesn't mean a whole lot.

and internal cable routings are not a feature.  they're a fucking beating.  

 

hit gdh again today, and again pussied out on that creek jump near the bottom.  8 feet, and it'll really hurt to case it.  decided I'm gonna build landing ramp to mate with my existing practice  ramp in the backyard, and get over my mental block about gaps, progressively.

Edited May 16, 2020 by wd40
subliminal period

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

Good shit, everyone. Thank you. That’s the feedback I was looking for. I’ll have to really look through this thread because I’m sure I can probably get a lot of my questions answered. 

[wd40 1976]

oh.  you asked about brands.  doesn't matter too much when you're talking about hardtail frames.  what matters most is what kind of component package you can get with it.  in the used market, I would look for Shimano XT level drive train and brakes.  I think the SRAM equivalent is X01.  but some compromises can be made, especially if you're mechanically inclined and can do your own upgrades later, if necessary.  above entry-level, drive train stuff is much easier to tune now than it ever used to be.

this example here looks pretty good, for the money (again, my Kona bias).  'hardly ridden', but chromo lasts forever.  and Honzo geometry is awesome.

https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2704818/

XT brakes.  pretty good fork.  NX drive train, which is pretty decent, and came stock on my current bike, iirc.  it worked well during demo and (briefly) after I brought it home before swapping it all out for my 'old reliable' SRAM X9 1x10 stuff I have hoarded.  I put it on my old bike to sell it as a complete and it worked fine.  almost plugnplay, since I moved over the whole shifter/cable assembly.  cheap stuff is hard to tune, and doesn't stay that way very long, even if you can get it set perfectly.

[TwiceHorn 30852]

To elaborate a bit on what has been said.  You really want a fork with an air spring because its spring rate can be adjusted to your weight.  That is pretty fundamental to having the fork work right.  Most low end bikes come with a fork with a coil spring.  There's nothing fundamentally wrong with a coil spring fork except that spring has a spring rate selected for an average rider.  If you are heavy or light, your fork will ride low and bottom out or not use any travel.

Then there are a bunch of things on the frame, such as the hub spacing ("Boost" is preferred), the dropouts (through axle is preferred), the type of bottom bracket, etc. that can limit upgradeability.

wd40 mentioned tubeless.  A lower end bike may not have tubeless compatible rims.  Ok, you think, I can pick up a set of low end wheels with tubeless rims for $2-300.  Not only have you just spent more than half the cost of the bike on an upgrade, but you will find that finding wheels to fit your hub spacing and dropouts is like a needle in a haystack because what you have is obsolescent.  There are endless examples of a lower end bike throwing down obstacles to upgrading like this.

A couple of things.  You pretty much can't go wrong with Shimano drivetrains and brakes.  SRAM drivetrains are fine, but stay away from the brakes.  The rest is mostly personal preference developed after years of riding.**

Every newb tries to score a "decent, upgradeable" hardtail for under $1000.  Except for used and the odd extraordinary deal, that just doesn't happen much.  Ask me how I know!  But my cheap entry level bike got me pretty into mountain biking.  My upgrade to full suspension and better components really juiced the experience for me, a whole nother level.  I was surprised.

Brands don't matter much. Trek and Specialized are two of the biggest and make good bikes.  They also tend to be slightly overpriced at MSRP for what you get.  GIant I think is the worlds biggest and they tend to be less "overpriced."  When you get into full-suspension, every mfr. has a sort of proprietary frame/rear suspension design, some of which you'll like and will serve your purposes, others won't, so brand kind of matters, but generally not for quality.

**Like everything else, in MTB opinions are like assholes.  Opinions and preferences develop after years of riding and are very personal. You can ignore a lot of it and develop your own.  Also, newbs don't know what they don't know, which is why reviews on low end bikes are good.

Edited May 16, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[KuЯdt 248]

Lots of good advice here from Twice and wd.  Your main takeaways should be to firstly, start with a good base - a good frame and fork (air, as Twice mentioned).  Then make sure you get a component set that is high enough in the range...the lower end stuff will be difficult to dial in, will probably break sooner, and end up costing you more money in the end as you'll be replacing it all.  For Shimano I'd look SLX, and SRAM I guess NX though I'm not as familiar with SRAM's offerings.  

Spend a little more now, to save more in the end.  The Pinkbike recommendation is good, you might start taking a look some bikes there and see what catches your eye.  If you post them here you'll probably get some more good advice about what people think of them.

I dig Kona bikes as well.  I have a Big Unit singlespeed which I've be considering converting to geared, because SS just isn't really for me.  I'll probably just end up selling it though and getting a modern aggressive hardtail.

[wd40 1976]

good call on SLX.  at least when it originally came out, it was marketed as having XT reliability without all the weight shaving (we're talking fractions of grams), and so less expensive.

but what I came back to post was to watch for the frame size.  mtbs are not as sensitive to this as road bikes because you're moving around on the bike a lot more, but you still need to get a bike that fits.  

you can google up the OEM size chart for the year and model of most frames you see on pinkbike to check this.  imo, if you're in between frame sizes, get the bigger one.  stretching a bike by putting a longer stem on it is just begging for an endo, and will fuck with the handling.

[TwiceHorn 30852]

Derailleur talk time.  I have NX, not Eagle, so 11 spd.  Mine has about 1000 miles on it and the shifter lever is getting white (bare metal) so it's been put through it.  It works pretty well, but, always has a problem coming down from the biggest cog, in my case just a 42.  The rest of the cassette is fine.

It has some plastic parts in it where GX and up would be metal and maybe add some bearings instead of bushings.

Where I think its problem lies is that it has a pulley or idler wheel in the derailleur around which the cable makes a 180 degree turn.  In the NX, that wheel is plastic and I don't think even has a bushing around its pivot or axle.  I think that makes a "hitch" in the cable so that the upshift from the 11th cog to the 10th just doesn't quite happen.  A double-shift down to 9th always happens, though.

I'd be wary of going lower than NX, and probably avoid NX Eagle, the 12sp variant. I have heard that GX Eagle (12sp) is pretty sensitive to adjustment also, so I would probably stay away from that, too.  SRAM intro'd the even lower SX and it's increasingly common on more entry-level bikes.  Cuidado.

Shimano has been a little slower at infiltrating 11 and 12 spd down its lineup, so you have to buy a higher-end derailleur to get 11 or 12 spd.  So that kind of takes care of that.

Edited May 16, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[KuЯdt 248]

Shimano has been a little slower at infiltrating 11 and 12 spd down its lineup, so you have to buy a higher-end derailleur to get 11 or 12 spd.  So that kind of takes care of that.

Behold, the new Shimano Deore: https://www.bikeradar.com/news/shimano-deore-m6100-12-speed/

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

You guys have given me a lot to think about. Maybe I was rushing into it a little bit and I should save for a better bike, because ideally I wasn’t looking to spend more than $850 right now, and definitely not more than a grand. I thought I’d be able to get away with that budget. It might be better for me to reassess at the beginning of next month. 

[Pescado_Rojo 19270]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Derailleur talk time.  I have NX, not Eagle, so 11 spd.  Mine has about 1000 miles on it and the shifter lever is getting white (bare metal) so it's been put through it.  It works pretty well, but, always has a problem coming down from the biggest cog, in my case just a 42.  The rest of the cassette is fine.

It has some plastic parts in it where GX and up would be metal and maybe add some bearings instead of bushings.

Where I think its problem lies is that it has a pulley or idler wheel in the derailleur around which the cable makes a 180 degree turn.  In the NX, that wheel is plastic and I don't think even has a bushing around its pivot or axle.  I think that makes a "hitch" in the cable so that the upshift from the 11th cog to the 10th just doesn't quite happen.  A double-shift down to 9th always happens, though.

I'd be wary of going lower than NX, and probably avoid NX Eagle, the 12sp variant. I have heard that GX Eagle (12sp) is pretty sensitive to adjustment also, so I would probably stay away from that, too.  SRAM intro'd the even lower SX and it's increasingly common on more entry-level bikes.  Cuidado.

Shimano has been a little slower at infiltrating 11 and 12 spd down its lineup, so you have to buy a higher-end derailleur to get 11 or 12 spd.  So that kind of takes care of that.

I haven't really wrenched on my own stuff in probably 20 years, but I used to do it a lot on my Mountain Goat with XTR drivetrain. My Yeti started shifting really poorly a couple weeks ago, so I watched a couple youtube videos and went out to the garage to see if I could sort it out. The SRAM XX derailleur totally mystifies me. I think I ended up making it worse. Sport Shop told me to bring it in after 10 hrs post rear end rebuild anyway so they could check the torque on all the bolts, so I dropped it off last Sunday and they had it ready Wednesday. The cable routing on SRAM drivetrains is almost Rube Goldberg-esque. 

Speaking of Rube Goldberg, I talked to the guys at Sport Shop about converting my bike to a 1X drivetrain so it would be easier to run a dropper post. Seems like it would be more trouble than it's worth to convert. Anyone running a 2x10 with a dropper? Where do you mount the lever, and how much of a PITA is it? 

[TwiceHorn 30852]

10 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

I haven't really wrenched on my own stuff in probably 20 years, but I used to do it a lot on my Mountain Goat with XTR drivetrain. My Yeti started shifting really poorly a couple weeks ago, so I watched a couple youtube videos and went out to the garage to see if I could sort it out. The SRAM XX derailleur totally mystifies me. I think I ended up making it worse. Sport Shop told me to bring it in after 10 hrs post rear end rebuild anyway so they could check the torque on all the bolts, so I dropped it off last Sunday and they had it ready Wednesday. The cable routing on SRAM drivetrains is almost Rube Goldberg-esque. 

Speaking of Rube Goldberg, I talked to the guys at Sport Shop about converting my bike to a 1X drivetrain so it would be easier to run a dropper post. Seems like it would be more trouble than it's worth to convert. Anyone running a 2x10 with a dropper? Where do you mount the lever, and how much of a PITA is it? 

What you could do is take off the front der, put a bashguard on your big ring and a 30-32-34 ring in the small cog, if it will fit.  Then you don't have to worry as much about the chainline, which can be one of the big obstacles in going 1x.

I personally feel like my 11 spd cassette, 46-11, is maybe too "close-ratio" in that I could get away pretty easily with some bigger jumps in the middle cogs.

[TwiceHorn 30852]

29 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

You guys have given me a lot to think about. Maybe I was rushing into it a little bit and I should save for a better bike, because ideally I wasn’t looking to spend more than $850 right now, and definitely not more than a grand. I thought I’d be able to get away with that budget. It might be better for me to reassess at the beginning of next month. 

One place to look for pretty constant discussion on first bike is the Beginner's Forum on mtbr.com.  There seems to be a post about it and ensuing discussion about every other day.

They also identify some good deals here and there online.

[wd40 1976]

Spider reopened, this weekend.  got there about 8:30, bailed around 11 when the line got insane.  

experimenting with volume levels to bring the trail sounds out more.

  

[Braff Zacklin 13299]

Fucking in the Bushes, my man.

How do places like that work--do you buy a day pass or lift ticket and ride for as long as you like?

[Pescado_Rojo 19270]

27 minutes ago, wd40 said:

Spider reopened, this weekend.  got there about 8:30, bailed around 11 when the line got insane.  

experimenting with volume levels to bring the trail sounds out more.

  

That explains why I passed about 400 cars with Mountain Bikes on the back on 29 today. I thought maybe there was a race at RPR.

[wd40 1976]

9 hours ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Fucking in the Bushes, my man.

How do places like that work--do you buy a day pass or lift ticket and ride for as long as you like?

you can see on the youtube thumbnail screen two paper wrist bands on my left arm.  the normal day pass is the one with the barcode, currently $50 for unlimited rides all day.  they scan it with a handheld at the bottom of the lift to make sure it's good, just like any other ski resort that hasn't switched to RF.

you can also buy an annual.  I heard those were going up, but last year they were $400.  I don't go often enough to justify even that.

with Covid, they also supposedly put a limit on users by numbering red bands with a sharpie.  I was #20 for the day, and at some point it went up to about 100.  they put those bands on when they scan you at the lift, the first time.  on one trip, I heard the bottom scan guy say over the radio that they were at the limit for 'retail', which I assume are the day-passers like me.

double-black was closed due to mud, but it seemed like mostly rookies out there anyway.  fortunately, they seemed to mostly stick to the greens, which limited the crowds on the trails I was interested in.  but it made the start area a total clusterfuck, coming off the lift and dodging through the big groups standing around or taking off in train.

Edited May 18, 2020 by wd40

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

Allrighty right guys.  I'm thinking of blowing some of my money on a new ride.  Sold a several older bikes I had, plus a little of my Trump allowance left.  Looking in the 1,000 to 1,500 range.

I sold my old bikes because I sort off saw the trend in the bike world and I didn't think I'd be able to find a good selection of replacement parts.  Seems like straight tube forks,  and QR are super rare, and it will be hard to find non-boost stuff soon.  

This one is leader right now.    https://www.bikesonline.com/2020-polygon-siskiu-d7-dual-suspension-mountain-bi

I'm not sure I can find a better new bike in that price range.  Alternates I'm considering include the giant stance (rear is not thru axel), and marin rift zone or hawk hill (out of budget unless I find a sale)

I've seen some decent used bikes, but again, in my price range they are likely at least 4 years old and have old tech.  I browsed ebay or pinkbike but don't really feel comfortable buy a used bike online.  Craigslist has been sparse lately.

 I have no problem putting a bike together or doing maintenance myself, so I'm not afraid to buy a new bike online.  I haven't seen a decent bike shop here in San Antonio that stock the aforementioned giant and marin.  I'm not in a hurry, and probable won't be riding as much when it really heats up here in a few weeks.  So I can wait to see what comes on sale or shows up on craigslist in the early fall.

So, throw your thoughts at me.  But please don't suggest "Have your thought of ______ for only $2000? " 

 

[TwiceHorn 30852]

I can vouch for the Rift Zone 2.

[TwiceHorn 30852]

I'm sure the Stance is a fine bike.  There is one thing that freaks me out about it, though:  it doesn't have a pivot between the chainstays and the seat stays; they just flex.

The Marin website says Gotta Ride bikes sells Marin.  They have pretty good reviews on yelp.

The Polygon bikes have favorable reviews on mtbr.

Edited May 18, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[lonestar3 274]

Thoughts on this deal:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-Specialized-S-Works-Epic-FSR-Size-Medium-SRAM-XX1-Drivetrain-22-73-lbs/274362936847?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3De2f85d36e6e54b13b4c5249dd81c82fb%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D274362936847%26itm%3D274362936847%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057%26brand%3DSpecialized&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A5f4e8274-992d-11ea-bed4-fa4d7d58a703|parentrq%3A28d6ee951720a0f2bc2433e1ffe542f4|iid%3A1

 

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

Yea I've read pretty much every review on it.  Seems they are bigger in the asian/Australian market and just entered the US in the last year.  I worry that they could back out at any time and replacement parts or support could be non-existent.  

Good to know about the stance, I had seen something about "flexpoint" but didn't really know what it was.  I don't trust flexing aluminum, but it does have a lifetime warranty on the frame...

I know a guy that got a riftzone recently, but haven't been able to ride it because of the virus.  

Another question, anyone ride a 29er and a 27.5?  Seems like Marin rift zone and hawk hill are almost the same spec except the wheel size.  I'd like to see the difference. 

[Braff Zacklin 13299]

I was actually going to link the Polygon Siskiu yesterday but was too lazy to do so. Reviews I've seen on YouTube are favorable--seems like a great "bang for buck" option. Throw in free shipping and it's practically a no-brainer.

One other bike to consider is the Bossnut Caliber, but I'm not sure if U.S. delivery is available. The "Limited" edition is actually cheaper than the standard offering and looks better, imo.

You might also check out offerings at ChainReactionCycles.com, such as the Vitus Mythique in full suspension or tons of solid hardtails from Cube, Vitus, Ragley, NS, Nukeproof, etc. Because CRC is based in England, delivery will take longer and cost about $70, but you get so much more for your dollar overseas, unfortunately. This late in the season and with the COVID situation, pickings might be slim.

Another thing to consider is waiting for things to "return to normal" this summer. At that point, many of those who rushed out and bought bikes only to find it wasn't for them are going to be putting them up for sale. This is more of a roll of a dice since you've no idea what you're going to get, but you could end up with a steal of a deal.

Finally, don't stress too much over components. For Shimano, Deore and up are fine. They are mostly functionally equivalent but the cheaper stuff will be heavier. For SRAM, it used to be X5 and up, but I guess now it's NX and up.

Fork and modern frame geometry are most important, with wheels being close behind.  You don't need a bike with Boost spacing, but I'd recommend it for futureproof compatibility. Same with a tapered headset and English-threaded bottom bracket (looks like PF BBs are on the wane, thank god).

I wish the Siskiu came with Shimano 500 series brakes instead of those 201s, but I'm sure they'll be more than adequate.

As for wheel sizes, 27.5 is probably on the way out (and this is coming from a guy who has two). Looking more and more like it'll all be 29ers within a few more years. Doesn't mean you can't shred on a 650b, though. Each has their advantages, but it's the people who are fast, not the bike, so try not to get too sucked into the marketing hype. Just noting that 29ers will most likely be the de facto standard going forward, if they aren't already.

Anyway, long story short, I'd say you're on the right track with that Siskiu.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Braff Zacklin

[TwiceHorn 30852]

Strange thing about CRC.  Deliveries are unusually prompt.  I had a similar experience with an airgun purchased from Holland.  Speedier delivery than domestic, if it doesn't get hung up in Customs.

Also, CRC does some kind of gray market stuff.  They had some killer deals on Marins purchased out of Performance Bike's bankruptcy.  Marin was peeved, I understand.  I think their great deals on Vitus and Nukeproof bikes are a result of them not technically being for sale in the US.

Even as an IP guy, I don't get too twisted about that kind of stuff.  YMMV.

[Pescado_Rojo 19270]

Seems like it wasn't that long ago that 29ers were on the way out and everything was going to be 27.5. It seems like 27.5 makes sense for S and M riders, but 29" is better for L and XL. Ive seen a few bikes that were offered that way...seems like mostly hardtails for now. I guess it's harder to make a universal geometry in a suspension frame. 

[TwiceHorn 30852]

2 hours ago, lonestar3 said:

Thoughts on this deal:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-Specialized-S-Works-Epic-FSR-Size-Medium-SRAM-XX1-Drivetrain-22-73-lbs/274362936847?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3De2f85d36e6e54b13b4c5249dd81c82fb%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D274362936847%26itm%3D274362936847%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057%26brand%3DSpecialized&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A5f4e8274-992d-11ea-bed4-fa4d7d58a703|parentrq%3A28d6ee951720a0f2bc2433e1ffe542f4|iid%3A1

 

Although a top line bike, old enough that geo is probably dated.  And, while no doubt a significant break from MSRP, now and then, I'm just not sure a 7-year-old bike is worth $2200.

Also, I am super-wary of buying carbon used.  You just never can tell what might have happened to it.

Also, looking at the spec, "Brain" rear shock.  Fuck that.

Edited May 18, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[KuЯdt 248]

I'm not really familiar with that Polygon brand and at first glance my thought was it's a bit too good to be true at that price.  But as some have said here they seem to get decent reviews.  There are some lower end parts on it but XT/SLX and 30lb full squish bike for $1300?  Sheeit. 

My brother recently asked me about what he could get in the $1500 range, might just have him take a look at the Poly.  He will be a more casual, occasional rider so it just might fit the bill.

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

53 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Fork and modern frame geometry are most important, with wheels being close behind.  You don't need a bike with Boost spacing, but I'd recommend it for futureproof compatibility. Same with a tapered headset and English-threaded bottom bracket (looks like PF BBs are on the wane, thank god).

This is my thinking.  Futureproofing is the right word.  I'd like something I could keep for 10-15 years, seeing as I'm not really a high mileage rider.  I'd rather upgrade as things wear out vs throwing down another 1.5k every 5 years.  

 

1 hour ago, Braff Zacklin said:

I wish the Siskiu came with Shimano 500 series brakes instead of those 201s, but I'm sure they'll be more than adequate.

 

I have the m200's on my current ride.  They accomplish the task at slowing down.  I was real hesitant to adopt disc brakes, but these cheapo hydraulics are way better than any of the mechanical discs I've used.  Brakes are a relatively cheap upgrade too.  

[KuЯdt 248]

8 hours ago, wd40 said:

double-black was closed due to mud

Good to know Spider is back open.  But now that means I have to get back out there and redeem myself on Stinger.  I wussed out on a couple sections the last (only) time I was there and walked them.

[wd40 1976]

10 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Although a top line bike, old enough that geo is probably dated.  And, while no doubt a significant break from MSRP, now and then, I'm just not sure a 7-year-old bike is worth $2200.

I think it's also sold.

10 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

Seems like it wasn't that long ago that 29ers were on the way out and everything was going to be 27.5. It seems like 27.5 makes sense for S and M riders, but 29" is better for L and XL. Ive seen a few bikes that were offered that way...seems like mostly hardtails for now. I guess it's harder to make a universal geometry in a suspension frame. 

this was the chronology, as I remember it.  I think 27.5 became a thing with the rise of Enduro as a sport.  it was a way to keep the long travel and mythically better "flickability" of 26" but get some of the benefit of bigger wheels.  then they came up with 27.5plus, which was trying to make a 27.5er into a 29er by putting balloon tires on it.  

meanwhile, 29er geo has been making room for longer and longer travel, to the point now where it can compete with the little wheels.

----------

and I would agree with Braf on the components, esp for newer riders.   It's hard to look back on those days and remember anything but the times I had problems with it.  I've also learned over the years that that the real problem may be somewhere else; such as a bent der hanger, gunked up cable housings, etc.

all that being said, I did briefly have a GX rear der.  first gen from when they rebranded everything away from the X.x series.  the B adjust had this janky-ass rubber grommet holding it in the der frame that would get out of alignment.  never realized how important that screw was until then.  before ultimately replacing the whole thing with a ebay closeout find on an X.9, I found a bigger screw (a coarse-thread sheetmetal screw, iirc), removed the grommet and force-threaded it in there.  I also dremel'd a notch on the B-adjust plate to make sure it didn't slip out again.

but that was a long time ago.  hopefully, they're done with that shit.

[TwiceHorn 30852]

4 minutes ago, wd40 said:

I think it's also sold.

this was the chronology, as I remember it.  I think 27.5 became a thing with the rise of Enduro as a sport.  it was a way to keep the long travel and mythically better "flickability" of 26" but get some of the benefit of bigger wheels.  then they came up with 27.5plus, which was trying to make a 27.5er into a 29er by putting balloon tires on it.  

meanwhile, 29er geo has been making room for longer and longer travel, to the point now where it can compete with the little wheels.

----------

and I would agree with Braf on the components, esp for newer riders.   It's hard to look back on those days and remember anything but the times I had problems with it.  I've also learned over the years that that the real problem may be somewhere else; such as a bent der hanger, gunked up cable housings, etc.

all that being said, I did briefly have a GX rear der.  first gen from when they rebranded everything away from the X.x series.  the B adjust had this janky-ass rubber grommet holding it in the der frame that would get out of alignment.  never realized how important that screw was until then.  before ultimately replacing the whole thing with a ebay closeout find on an X.9, I found a bigger screw (a coarse-thread sheetmetal screw, iirc), removed the grommet and force-threaded it in there.  I also dremel'd a notch on the B-adjust plate to make sure it didn't slip out again.

but that was a long time ago.  hopefully, they're done with that shit.

I understand the b-tension on GX Eagle remains critical.  I have not heard particular complaints about the screw or arrangement.

I might could make use of a 50 tooth or a 10 tooth, but I am not seeing a personal need for 12spd drivetrain, so I will avoid it until I can't.

[wd40 1976]

6 minutes ago, KuЯdt said:

Good to know Spider is back open.  But now that means I have to get back out there and redeem myself on Stinger.  I wussed out on a couple sections the last (only) time I was there and walked them.

get there early.  holy shit it got crowded, starting around 10am.

I guess Stinger is the double-black; aka,  The Artist Formerly Known As Rotor Smoke.  yeah, I was dissapoint.  really wanted to hit that one.  the upper part is super fun.  it's really just that one rock garden, and the spot that drops onto that wooden thing that you have to not panic on.  you just come around a bend and are suddenly faced with this big expanse of biggish boulders and ledges you have to pick a line through.

[Braff Zacklin 13299]

31 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

This is my thinking.  Futureproofing is the right word.  I'd like something I could keep for 10-15 years, seeing as I'm not really a high mileage rider.  I'd rather upgrade as things wear out vs throwing down another 1.5k every 5 years.

I have the m200's on my current ride.  They accomplish the task at slowing down.  I was real hesitant to adopt disc brakes, but these cheapo hydraulics are way better than any of the mechanical discs I've used.  Brakes are a relatively cheap upgrade too.  

Hydros have gotten soooooooo much better over the years. Entry-level Shimanos are better than anything that was available 15 years ago, imo. They are also very easy to work on (bleed, replace pads, etc.).

That said, I still run a set of mechanical BB7s on my hardtail, partly out of stubbornness, but also as a "showcase" that mechanical discs can be just as strong, smooth, and predictable as hydros (if properly installed and set up) ... even with one finger on the levers (as it should be).

If I were building a bike from scratch, I wouldn't hesitate to install a pair of BB7s, but hydros have gotten so cheap that there's really no point. I think one can find a set of 201s for about $60, and that's a ridiculously good value. A pair of BB7s would run you more than $90, and you'd still have to buy cables, housings, and levers.

[Braff Zacklin 13299]

Here are a couple of YouTube vids featuring the Siskiu.

KevCentral is a popular channel primarily focused on big box bikes and direct-to-consumer brands. The guy is also an extremely casual rider, as in, he doesn't need more than a $200 department store bike for what/how he rides, so bear that in mind.

 

 

 

Honestly, that Siskiu D7 with the dropper post is an absurdly good deal.

https://www.bikesonline.com/2020-polygon-siskiu-d7-dual-suspension-mountain-bi~11986

Geo checks out, too. Chainstays are shortish, headtube angle is a good compromise between AM and XC (67.5 degrees for 29ers), reach is long but not ridiculously so, etc.

One thing to note is, though the Siskiu frame is Boost, the fork is not. That would be the biggest negative. It means if you ever wanted to upgrade the fork, you'd probably have to buy a new front wheel, as well, unless you found a screaming deal on a non-boost fork (like I did... LoL).

[KuЯdt 248]

1 hour ago, wd40 said:

I guess Stinger is the double-black; aka,  The Artist Formerly Known As Rotor Smoke.  yeah, I was dissapoint.  really wanted to hit that one.  the upper part is super fun.  it's really just that one rock garden, and the spot that drops onto that wooden thing that you have to not panic on.  you just come around a bend and are suddenly faced with this big expanse of biggish boulders and ledges you have to pick a line through.

Yep those are the spots.  That part with the wooden ramp I know I can ride, but it got in my head and I just had the mental block.  Hate that.  The steep rock garden thing was truly sketchy as shit.  But I want to clean it.

Even that one rock garden on the black is a bit sketchy.  you made it look pretty easy in your vid, but it ain't no joke...my buddy even went otb there.

 

btw, Rotor Smoke is a much better name.

[wd40 1976]

agree on the name.  the whole bug motif is corny AF, imo.

I've ridden them both ("cleaned" isn't the right word..."not-dabbed" would be more accurate), just not on the same lap.  at least not that I remember.  usually, the guys I ride with are all about the jump lines, so we hit Rotor Smoke once, maybe twice the whole day.  this makes the second time I've gone there solo and it was closed.

went there once on a Friday and the lift line was non-existent.  actually felt I could afford a couple water/snack breaks.  I wonder what a Covid Friday would look like.  would have to be after a Tuesday rain event.  that place sucks in the dry season.

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

Look likes those Polygons are sold out for now.  

Guess I'll keep those in the back of my head for now.

Apparently bike inventory is low all over the country.   People trying to get in shape and shit.  That would explain why all my old bikes and parts sold fairly quickly.  

[TwiceHorn 30852]

Got out to Katie Jackson, aka Collarbone Park and did 10 miles, which is notable because no loop there is longer than about 2.5 miles, if that.  You can string them together in ways that break the monotony though.  Still rode for less than 1.5 hours.

Some notables.

There's one section that used to run right along the creek.  They had moved it "inboard" because erosion had made it dangerous.  I noted that it was back open and took it and then saw the exposure and kind of freaked out and stopped.  That's a 15 foot near vertical drop into the creekbed.  There's maybe 24 inches of trail tread including the weedy stuff on the edge.  Yikes!

There is a dirt jump section in the middle of the yellow loop with a pump track.  It's pretty easy to get off the pump track and into the jumps, and, as can be seen, it gets and stays muddy.

Finally, the erstwhile trail stewards fixed the infernal, rooty tree-fence gate in the new connector between the blue and yellow loops.  So I guess I'll never have to consider riding that gate.

Pretty good ride though, cloudy, breezy, not quite 80.  A nice break from the high 80s recently.

[TwiceHorn 30852]

It's funny, I rode a skinny on the trail twice today that's narrower than the trail on that exposed section, probably longer, too.

At some level, I am mentally certain that I can keep my bike within 24" for 30-40 yards on relatively level ground.  Probably even 12."

On another level, that looked so fucking narrow and the penalty for failure, dude.  More living inside my head while I ride.  I am not sure even a riding partner could have shamed me into not stopping.  The stupidest part was I was about halfway through and I couldn't decide if it was scarier to walk forward or turn the bike around and go back.

Edited May 20, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

Yea, screw that.