The Surly Mountain Biking Thread

[wd40 1976]

8 hours ago, KuЯdt said:

meant to ask about Deception again...did the original trail include most of what is now Double Down?  I don't remember it being quite that difficult whenever I rode it a few years ago.  I had to walk quite a few spots on DD.

pretty sure, yeah.  as we always understood it, Deception was everything on that side of the paved path between the barn you used to ride through, not far from Mulligan, and the jeep road which had a drop-in on the far side of it to get to the Rim Loop/Dave's Ditch area.

there is one minor reroute that I don't understand; but if anything, it made the way between the two points it connects a lot easier.

the stretch between where the trail map is posted and that flattish intersection with the end of PicnicX where it comes out from under the footbridge has always been the toughest.  I think erosion has made some of the step-ups bigger, for sure.  I don't ride it often, but I do always remember several of the rock gardens when they begin their punishment. 

on the brakes:   I was a little slow to move.  Jenson is my go-to, but they've been dry every time I checked, as was Amazon.

think I'm gonna hit RPR, this weekend.

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

Did 15 miles at flat rock today.  Was hoping to hit 20 but shit there’s so much climbing.  Good times. If you think you are a good rider then go to flat rock it kicks my ass every time. It’s the only place where I’m guaranteed to wipe out at least once. 

[TwiceHorn 31509]

3 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Did 15 miles at flat rock today.  Was hoping to hit 20 but shit there’s so much climbing.  Good times. If you think you are a good rider then go to flat rock it kicks my ass every time. It’s the only place where I’m guaranteed to wipe out at least once. 

So if you don't think you're a good rider stay the hell away?

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

Haha nah its fun no matter what.

It just a lot of climbing.  No shame in walking or taking breaks.   If you want to go go in the next month or two.  There’s little shade.

[TwiceHorn 31509]

25 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Haha nah its fun no matter what.

It just a lot of climbing.  No shame in walking or taking breaks.   If you want to go go in the next month or two.  There’s little shade.

I'm just taking the piss.  15 miles is impressive on anything.  I've never done it.  I could, but it would involve a third lap on just about any trail in DFW and I just can't feature that most of the time, either out of sheer boredom or fear I'll bonk part of the way through.

For some reason, I just don't like riding tired, slow, and bored, even if it isn't outright painful.  I guess I fear I'll make a mistake and furk myself up.

Like Boulder Park has a fairly hellacious and unavoidable climb out in the last half mile or so of a 5.5 mile loop.  One lap is not really enough, but the specter of having to do that climb out again at 9.5 miles usually deters me from going again.  I could just walk it, but nah.

[Braff Zacklin 13627]

Shot some trail footage yesterday for the first time in about 11 months. Only, I mounted the camera incorrectly and ended up with an hour and 45 minutes of my knees.

[Al_4_ISU 12470]

Great Easter ride. The weather here has been spectacular the last few days. Low 70’s, zero humidity.

Went about 10 miles. Finally got through a tight steep switchback that I’ve always dismounted. Made a long climb that’s always taken me out with zero hike a bike. Got some pine time.

[Your Mom 4818]

Heading out next Friday for a road trip to Fruita and Moab.  I've been trying to do this trip for a few years and finding the right combination of weather, days off, kids' schedule, etc.. has kept it from happening.  Basically 1 day in Fruita, 4 days in Moab with an option to switch that up a little.  Alsoa quick stop at Palo Duro Canyon on the way up and back.  Taking my old man with me.  He took me on a ton of road trip adventures as a kid and it'll be good to add one more to the list.  

Camping at Palo Duro since it's on the way and will get a morning ride in there  (Lighthouse trail?  Not sure what else) before heading on to Fruita.  Got a campsite on some private land near 18 Road in Fruita but hoping for a better spot on the BLM land right at the trails.  Kessel Run, PBR, and Zippity-Do-Dah are tops on the list there.  Then whatever else looks good before heading to Moab.  Got a campsite one night at Sand Flats and hoping to find a 1st come-1st serve spot for another day or two that I couldn't reserve.  Got a hotel room one night in the middle for a hot shower.   In Moab it'll be Captain Ahab one day and the Mag 7 trails another day.    Navajo Rocks looks better and less crowded than Slickrock... but I've been eyeing Slickrock for 20 years...  one of those two will be the third day.  It's too early for the Whole Enchilada, that'll have to be next time.  Probably hike with Pops in Arches one day.  

Here's some trail porn... Not my videos, just what I'm planning to hit

 

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

Can I come?

[Your Mom 4818]

3 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Can I come?

Yeah but you gotta sleep in the tent with my Dad.  He snores.  I'll be in the truck.

[Braff Zacklin 13627]

After my massive fail on Friday, I re-recorded the same ride on Saturday. Dunno if it's possible to make climbs interesting, but I wanted to try something new and show the change as one ascends from town to the foothills.

Everything looks bleak and dreary right now, but give it a month and there should be lots of green and wildflowers.

 

[wd40 1976]

14 hours ago, Your Mom said:

Heading out next Friday for a road trip to Fruita and Moab.  I've been trying to do this trip for a few years and finding the right combination of weather, days off, kids' schedule, etc.. has kept it from happening.  Basically 1 day in Fruita, 4 days in Moab with an option to switch that up a little.  Alsoa quick stop at Palo Duro Canyon on the way up and back.  Taking my old man with me.  He took me on a ton of road trip adventures as a kid and it'll be good to add one more to the list.  

Camping at Palo Duro since it's on the way and will get a morning ride in there  (Lighthouse trail?  Not sure what else) before heading on to Fruita.  Got a campsite on some private land near 18 Road in Fruita but hoping for a better spot on the BLM land right at the trails.  Kessel Run, PBR, and Zippity-Do-Dah are tops on the list there.  Then whatever else looks good before heading to Moab.  Got a campsite one night at Sand Flats and hoping to find a 1st come-1st serve spot for another day or two that I couldn't reserve.  Got a hotel room one night in the middle for a hot shower.   In Moab it'll be Captain Ahab one day and the Mag 7 trails another day.    Navajo Rocks looks better and less crowded than Slickrock... but I've been eyeing Slickrock for 20 years...  one of those two will be the third day.  It's too early for the Whole Enchilada, that'll have to be next time.  Probably hike with Pops in Arches one day.  

Here's some trail porn... Not my videos, just what I'm planning to hit

 

have a great trip, Mom!  wish I could go.  don't Braff your camera rig, bro!

funny story:  I gave the dude who made the last p0rno in your post a bunch of wood for his cat, just last week.  can't wait to see what he does with it.

wait...

BZ:

I like the vid.  shitload of pedaling, for sure.  I think you posted a run down that Death Valley section before, yeah?  anyway, climbing is underrated.  most of the action is in regulating your breathing and cadence, which is it's own art.  the sense of accomplishment when you top out on a long grind can be pretty powerful.  cool song, too.

 

as it turned out, I never made it to rpr, last week.  I forgot we were going to Methland to visit my MIL and her 94yo dad.  very much not Uncle Slaton.  dude has some stories, so it's always good to see him, but that drive....  anyway, gonna try again, this week.

[Your Mom 4818]

56 minutes ago, wd40 said:

 don't Braff your camera rig, bro!

It's a certainty that I will take hours of footage and have about 45 seconds of it be watchable.  

And I'm around this week if you wanna hit RPR mid week.  Was thinking about camping out there Wednesday night.

[Pescado_Rojo 19426]

Y'all be careful out there. I had a close encounter with a rattlesnake yesterday evening. I had just come off a singletrack loop and was peddling up a 2 track road to hit another section. There's a bunch of large rocks pushed off to one side where they made the road that kind of forms a barrier to keep someone from driving off into an abandoned quarry, and that fucker was sunning on the rocks. Didn't see him until he started rattling as I rode right past him at a distance of about 5'. As I turned to look he was coiled up tight with his head up. I spent the rest of the ride looking 5' in front of me at all times. 

Also managed to get out last week and ride all of Suburban Ninja. Pretty neat track. About 8+ miles if you ride everything. The only thing we skipped was a short chunky Black section that runs along the creek. The guy that was showing me around didn't want to ride it, but showed me where it was. It kind of follows a ledge above the creek, and there could be a pretty big penalty in a few spots for falling off the wrong side. Most of the trail is mildly chunky and undulating with lots of short climbs and descents. There's a couple of medium-ish drops and G outs along the creek, but all of them are on smooth dirt. I could see some of the g outs being tricky in the summer when it's real dry, but it's hero dirt out there right now. FR512 is building some jump lines in the middle on land owned by the church over there. It's free to ride because it's on church land, but they ask you to have a waiver on file. If you go to the FR512 site, look on their parks page, it's FR512 at Christ Church of Cedar Park. 

[TwiceHorn 31509]

I haven't ridden in about a week, but have been expecting to see lots of snek, most likely copperhead.  Not so, however.

I have yet to feel threatened by a venomous snek, or nonvenomous for that matter.  Just surprised.

Although, I suppose that nerodia encounter last spring (not the one I took pix of) could have had potential to be bad if it had been venomous.  But even the bitey nerodia was trying as hard to avoid me as I was it.

[KuЯdt 248]

18 hours ago, Your Mom said:

Heading out next Friday for a road trip to Fruita and Moab.  I've been trying to do this trip for a few years and finding the right combination of weather, days off, kids' schedule, etc.. has kept it from happening.  Basically 1 day in Fruita, 4 days in Moab with an option to switch that up a little.  Alsoa quick stop at Palo Duro Canyon on the way up and back.  Taking my old man with me.  He took me on a ton of road trip adventures as a kid and it'll be good to add one more to the list.  

Camping at Palo Duro since it's on the way and will get a morning ride in there  (Lighthouse trail?  Not sure what else) before heading on to Fruita.  Got a campsite on some private land near 18 Road in Fruita but hoping for a better spot on the BLM land right at the trails.  Kessel Run, PBR, and Zippity-Do-Dah are tops on the list there.  Then whatever else looks good before heading to Moab.  Got a campsite one night at Sand Flats and hoping to find a 1st come-1st serve spot for another day or two that I couldn't reserve.  Got a hotel room one night in the middle for a hot shower.   In Moab it'll be Captain Ahab one day and the Mag 7 trails another day.    Navajo Rocks looks better and less crowded than Slickrock... but I've been eyeing Slickrock for 20 years...  one of those two will be the third day.  It's too early for the Whole Enchilada, that'll have to be next time.  Probably hike with Pops in Arches one day.  

Here's some trail porn... Not my videos, just what I'm planning to hit

 

 

Hell yes, that's a total bucket list trip.  The Portal trail is way up high on the pucker scale...I get clenched up just watching youtube vids of it.

[wd40 1976]

30 minutes ago, KuЯdt said:

 

Hell yes, that's a total bucket list trip.  The Portal trail is way up high on the pucker scale...I get clenched up just watching youtube vids of it.

so you're saying the portal was closed up tight?

same, though.  Seth is a bonafide badass.  if he's walking stuff, I'm for sure walking it, and probably most of the stuff leading up to it and after it, especially on a first time through.

"sight-reading" trail is not my strong suit, to put it mildly.  I rode around the Fr512 stuff at the church Pescado mentioned above, a couple weeks ago.  the ladder drops were no biggie, but the jump line just baffled me.  I'd hit the first one then be all like, "now what do I do?" when faced with the multiple-choice of ramps after it.

@Your Mom

apparently, I'm getting a NSA chip implanted today (wife made me an appt), so even if I could spare the time for a run out to Burnet tomorrow, my understanding is my shot arm will be a wet noodle.

[TexPx 2323]

Heading out next Friday for a road trip to Fruita and Moab.  I've been trying to do this trip for a few years and finding the right combination of weather, days off, kids' schedule, etc.. has kept it from happening.  Basically 1 day in Fruita, 4 days in Moab with an option to switch that up a little.  Alsoa quick stop at Palo Duro Canyon on the way up and back.  Taking my old man with me.  He took me on a ton of road trip adventures as a kid and it'll be good to add one more to the list.  
Camping at Palo Duro since it's on the way and will get a morning ride in there  (Lighthouse trail?  Not sure what else) before heading on to Fruita.  Got a campsite on some private land near 18 Road in Fruita but hoping for a better spot on the BLM land right at the trails.  Kessel Run, PBR, and Zippity-Do-Dah are tops on the list there.  Then whatever else looks good before heading to Moab.  Got a campsite one night at Sand Flats and hoping to find a 1st come-1st serve spot for another day or two that I couldn't reserve.  Got a hotel room one night in the middle for a hot shower.   In Moab it'll be Captain Ahab one day and the Mag 7 trails another day.    Navajo Rocks looks better and less crowded than Slickrock... but I've been eyeing Slickrock for 20 years...  one of those two will be the third day.  It's too early for the Whole Enchilada, that'll have to be next time.  Probably hike with Pops in Arches one day.  
Here's some trail porn... Not my videos, just what I'm planning to hit
[/url]  

Ifyou are that close to Slickrock you should do it.

[TwiceHorn 31509]

Alright skilled riders, got a question for ya.  This seems to be right down wd40's alley.

How should you approach something like this.

About 10-20 yards prior, there's a little descent, so you can hit this fairly fast if you want, but that seems imprudent.  The stair steps there are just under a foot, so probably pretty hard to roll.  There are just enough divots in the rock on the right line that you probably could roll it or close to it, but then there's that root ledge and that's a doozer, over a foot.

Unfortunately, that pic is more than a year old and the divots in the rock on the left side are gone and there's more vertical ledges where they once were.  For now anyway.

Is there any benefit to trying to do this slow and lift the front wheel or do you just have to send it and pray or what?  Squeak up to the far left?  Start left and veer right?

Edited April 6, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31509]

Related question.

When there's a big rootpile or rock ledges at the top of a climb, where you're normally losing momentum, wtf are you supposed to do?  These are piles that on level ground would be kind of a minor pain in the ass, but not particularly hard to negotiate by "crawling."  Here I don't mean a hard, slow climb, but rather the "up" after a "down." so that by being in a higher gear, you could push up your speed a little, but be in a bad gear for crawling, or be in a lower gear and be in danger of losing all momentum.

[Pescado_Rojo 19426]

15 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Alright skilled riders, got a question for ya.  This seems to be right down wd40's alley.

How should you approach something like this.

About 10-20 yards prior, there's a little descent, so you can hit this fairly fast if you want, but that seems imprudent.  The stair steps there are just under a foot, so probably pretty hard to roll.  There are just enough divots in the rock on the right line that you probably could roll it or close to it, but then there's that root ledge and that's a doozer, over a foot.

Unfortunately, that pic is more than a year old and the divots in the rock on the left side are gone and there's more vertical ledges where they once were.  For now anyway.

Is there any benefit to trying to do this slow and lift the front wheel or do you just have to send it and pray or what?  Squeak up to the far left?  Start left and veer right?

I know digital photos do a terrible job with depth, but to me it looks like you could jet up the left side staying as close to that tree as possible, use your momentum to clear that first stair-step that's parallel to the tree, then pedal up the part that's in the shade there. 

[Austinvines 318]

Picking the right gear for an ascent with several steps is one of my biggest problems, but I’d definitely go for slow in a gear with enough torque that I could stay upright and moving forward without spinning out. Is that what you call crawling?

Having another step up while your rear wheel also has to clear the step your front just went over is a recipe for me dabbing/walking.

[Braff Zacklin 13627]

4 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Related question.

When there's a big rootpile or rock ledges at the top of a climb, where you're normally losing momentum, wtf are you supposed to do?  These are piles that on level ground would be kind of a minor pain in the ass, but not particularly hard to negotiate by "crawling."  Here I don't mean a hard, slow climb, but rather the "up" after a "down." so that by being in a higher gear, you could push up your speed a little, but be in a bad gear for crawling, or be in a lower gear and be in danger of losing all momentum.

A trap or step at the top of a steep pitch is super challenging because you're either out of speed or energy by the time you reach it. For us mere mortals, my recommendation would be to "sandbag" most of the climb, then burst when you near the obstacle.

To get over small-to-moderate steps (<18"), it helps to carry some speed, get your weight back and lift the front wheel as you reach the step, and then quickly move forward to unweight the rear wheel so it will just pop up and over.

I've seen real badasses step up 3- or 4-foot-high boulders, picnic tables, etc., but they are essentially manualing/bunny hopping. They are so smooth and effortless; it's awesome to behold.

Regarding the pic you posted, how much distance is between each step? Is there room for a full crank? If so, you might be able to pop the front, lift the rear, rinse and repeat, your way up. It's hard to tell because nothing on video or in photos looks like what we see in person.

[TwiceHorn 31509]

2 hours ago, Austinvines said:

Picking the right gear for an ascent with several steps is one of my biggest problems, but I’d definitely go for slow in a gear with enough torque that I could stay upright and moving forward without spinning out. Is that what you call crawling?

Having another step up while your rear wheel also has to clear the step your front just went over is a recipe for me dabbing/walking.

Yes, sort of picking your way over it. Unweighting if not lifting the front wheel to help it roll the steep spots.

In addition to the gear selection problem, I don't have a lot of confidence in my ability to subtly raise my front wheel, or compress and unload at speed.  I'd probably wind up driving my wheel right into one of those ledges and possibly going OTB.  Or looping out to the rear on some of the steeper things.

Edited April 6, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31509]

4 hours ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

I know digital photos do a terrible job with depth, but to me it looks like you could jet up the left side staying as close to that tree as possible, use your momentum to clear that first stair-step that's parallel to the tree, then pedal up the part that's in the shade there. 

I would like to think that I would have picked that line in real life, but I didn't notice it until today and I have been stopping in front of this for like five years.  I've intended to hit it with some speed and slow but I always chicken out and stop and after staring at it a while realize I really have no idea quite how to attack this.

Edited April 6, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31509]

12 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

A trap or step at the top of a steep pitch is super challenging because you're either out of speed or energy by the time you reach it. For us mere mortals, my recommendation would be to "sandbag" most of the climb, then burst when you near the obstacle.

To get over small-to-moderate steps (<18"), it helps to carry some speed, get your weight back and lift the front wheel as you reach the step, and then quickly move forward to unweight the rear wheel so it will just pop up and over.

I've seen real badasses step up 3- or 4-foot-high boulders, picnic tables, etc., but they are essentially manualing/bunny hopping. They are so smooth and effortless; it's awesome to behold.

Regarding the pic you posted, how much distance is between each step? Is there room for a full crank? If so, you might be able to pop the front, lift the rear, rinse and repeat, your way up. It's hard to tell because nothing on video or in photos looks like what we see in person.

On that, probably 2-3 feet between the ledges, maybe even a little more.  So yeah, there's some room to get pedal strokes.

But, that rear wheel is going to be kicking up right when you need the front wheel not to lever in.

I think I've seen one guy ride this and I caught him just powering, slowly, out of it at the end.  I didn't get to see the line he picked or the speed until the end.

Edited April 6, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[Braff Zacklin 13627]

10 hours ago, wd40 said:

BZ:

I like the vid.  shitload of pedaling, for sure.  I think you posted a run down that Death Valley section before, yeah?  anyway, climbing is underrated.  most of the action is in regulating your breathing and cadence, which is it's own art.  the sense of accomplishment when you top out on a long grind can be pretty powerful.  cool song, too.

Nope, haven't shot anything from Death Valley prior to this. It's fun in both directions, although descending sight lines are short so I don't bomb down it very often.

Haven't posted very many videos for a few reasons. For one, I worry they're not very entertaining. Low production value (single camera), shitty editing skills, and mediocre riding leaves me wondering if anyone would want to watch it, especially compared to what's available on YouTube.

Also, it was taking forever to upload them with my old ISP. For example, I made a 10-minute-plus video descending the north side of Over The Top last year. It took more than a day to upload at 1440p/60 frames because I was throttled at ~400 Kb/s. But I switched to fiber back in September and now have 940 Mb/s both directions ... so maybe prepare to be inundated with lots of boring shit???

(Case in point, yesterday's video was finished uploading before I could complete the title and information prompts on YouTube.)

On that note, I'd appreciate any criticisms, suggestions, or other feedback y'all might have. What would you like to see?

[Pescado_Rojo 19426]

39 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yes, sort of picking your way over it. Unweighting if not lifting the front wheel to help it roll the steep spots.

In addition to the gear selection problem, I don't have a lot of confidence in my ability to subtly raise my front wheel, or compress and unload at speed.  I'd probably wind up driving my wheel right into one of those ledges and possibly going OTB.  Or looping out to the rear on some of the steeper things.

You're on a 29" right? It took me over two years to just let the big dog eat. You'd be surprised the stuff you can roll with that big 29" front wheel. Stuff I used to try to manual into 3 years ago I just hit at speed and let that big front wheel get it's roll on. 

[TwiceHorn 31509]

34 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

You're on a 29" right? It took me over two years to just let the big dog eat. You'd be surprised the stuff you can roll with that big 29" front wheel. Stuff I used to try to manual into 3 years ago I just hit at speed and let that big front wheel get it's roll on. 

Yeah, but I never rode a 26 or 27.5.  Nevertheless, I am somewhat surprised what I can roll at times.

Also, it's fascinating, but there are some small geo differences in my replacement frame, namely shorter chainstays.  I haven't tried systematically practicing manuals on it, but I can tell on the trail that it is easier to get the front wheel up on.

I can tell that is going to help with my steeziness.

[wd40 1976]

11 hours ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Nope, haven't shot anything from Death Valley prior to this. It's fun in both directions, although descending sight lines are short so I don't bomb down it very often.

Haven't posted very many videos for a few reasons. For one, I worry they're not very entertaining. Low production value (single camera), shitty editing skills, and mediocre riding leaves me wondering if anyone would want to watch it, especially compared to what's available on YouTube.

Also, it was taking forever to upload them with my old ISP. For example, I made a 10-minute-plus video descending the north side of Over The Top last year. It took more than a day to upload at 1440p/60 frames because I was throttled at ~400 Kb/s. But I switched to fiber back in September and now have 940 Mb/s both directions ... so maybe prepare to be inundated with lots of boring shit???

(Case in point, yesterday's video was finished uploading before I could complete the title and information prompts on YouTube.)

On that note, I'd appreciate any criticisms, suggestions, or other feedback y'all might have. What would you like to see?

back in the day on my old XP desktop I held onto til Windows 8 or something, video processing and upload took hours.  so yeah, I feel ya, on that.

I think for what you were trying to communicate, you made good choices.   speeding it up like that, with that music and some interesting text remarks mixed in in creative ways, it all fit really well together.  I also liked the way you ended it, sucking wind after the music.

I would just say, from general comments my friends have made is that most people don't have the attention span for anything longer than 3-5 minutes.  so if you're committed to a particular song like that one, you might look for segues in the music to fade it out or cut it off to shorten it up.  again, speaking in the general case.  

the other thing to realize is that anyone that hasn't ridden those trails (and even some that have) may not appreciate the more subtle features and sections you like.  you rode it.  you know what it feels like, so the video is much more visceral for you.  for most others, especially those who don't ride, it's just a line of dirt moving around on the screen.  not sure what you can do with that, except lower your expectations of others' responses.  I make my videos for me.  sometimes people who were on that ride may get some of the inside jokes, but usually not.  I just don't worry about it, anymore.

lastly, I would have liked to have seen some of the downhills and bobsled runs at only 1x speed, being a mtb nerd.  but that would have thrown off timing to the song and you would have to make cuts elsewhere.  

[KuЯdt 248]

15 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I would like to think that I would have picked that line in real life, but I didn't notice it until today and I have been stopping in front of this for like five years.  I've intended to hit it with some speed and slow but I always chicken out and stop and after staring at it a while realize I really have no idea quite how to attack this.

definitely looks like the left line is the place to start.  Momentum would be your friend here, if you can get enough to get over the root section then have a bit leftover to get up and over the ledges.  As mentioned, gear choice would be important, not too low of a gear so that you don't spin out on the ledges.  Master that left line, then take your shot at the middle to right part if you're feeling it.

[KuЯdt 248]

4 hours ago, wd40 said:

back in the day on my old XP desktop I held onto til Windows 8 or something, video processing and upload took hours.  so yeah, I feel ya, on that.

I think for what you were trying to communicate, you made good choices.   speeding it up like that, with that music and some interesting text remarks mixed in in creative ways, it all fit really well together.  I also liked the way you ended it, sucking wind after the music.

I would just say, from general comments my friends have made is that most people don't have the attention span for anything longer than 3-5 minutes.  so if you're committed to a particular song like that one, you might look for segues in the music to fade it out or cut it off to shorten it up.  again, speaking in the general case.  

the other thing to realize is that anyone that hasn't ridden those trails (and even some that have) may not appreciate the more subtle features and sections you like.  you rode it.  you know what it feels like, so the video is much more visceral for you.  for most others, especially those who don't ride, it's just a line of dirt moving around on the screen.  not sure what you can do with that, except lower your expectations of others' responses.  I make my videos for me.  sometimes people who were on that ride may get some of the inside jokes, but usually not.  I just don't worry about it, anymore.

lastly, I would have liked to have seen some of the downhills and bobsled runs at only 1x speed, being a mtb nerd.  but that would have thrown off timing to the song and you would have to make cuts elsewhere.  

^^ Good advice and feedback there.  

I too really just make my videos for me and sometimes for friends riding with me.  I just think it's sort of fun to look back on the riding experience and relive it a bit.  And to see just how shitty of a rider I am.  Sometimes funny things happen like crashes and that's always good entertainment.

Mine are usually shared publicly because no reason not to really.  I don't get many views or anything since I mainly just share the link with a couple friends.  But sometimes I'll get the rando youtube viewer that finds a video and leaves some comment like "Lame!" or "Boring!!".  I always get a kick out of those.

I also enjoy watching videos from others, as I like seeing local trails from different areas.  So keep at it @Braff Zacklin if you enjoy it, and post em up here.

[Braff Zacklin 13627]

5 hours ago, wd40 said:

back in the day on my old XP desktop I held onto til Windows 8 or something, video processing and upload took hours.  so yeah, I feel ya, on that.

I think for what you were trying to communicate, you made good choices.   speeding it up like that, with that music and some interesting text remarks mixed in in creative ways, it all fit really well together.  I also liked the way you ended it, sucking wind after the music.

I would just say, from general comments my friends have made is that most people don't have the attention span for anything longer than 3-5 minutes.  so if you're committed to a particular song like that one, you might look for segues in the music to fade it out or cut it off to shorten it up.  again, speaking in the general case.  

the other thing to realize is that anyone that hasn't ridden those trails (and even some that have) may not appreciate the more subtle features and sections you like.  you rode it.  you know what it feels like, so the video is much more visceral for you.  for most others, especially those who don't ride, it's just a line of dirt moving around on the screen.  not sure what you can do with that, except lower your expectations of others' responses.  I make my videos for me.  sometimes people who were on that ride may get some of the inside jokes, but usually not.  I just don't worry about it, anymore.

lastly, I would have liked to have seen some of the downhills and bobsled runs at only 1x speed, being a mtb nerd.  but that would have thrown off timing to the song and you would have to make cuts elsewhere.  

Thanks @wd40 and @KuЯdt for sharing your thoughts and suggestions. (tldr; warning)

I know climbs generally aren't entertaining. Just wanted to show something different, i.e., a routine ascent and how the views, terrain, and pitches change as one gets higher. Chopping it up, I worried, would eliminate the context, and including descents would've made it exorbitantly lengthy. Incidentally, the tale of the tape was 4.3 miles and 1,300 net feet (5.73%) with another mile and 350 feet to reach the top if conditions had permitted.

But if it was boring, I'll try to come up with something else.

My goal here is not to have an impactful YouTube channel, but just to share local Idaho trails and experiences with everyone on this thread. I don't want to overdo it and bore y'all with a bunch of self-indulgent filler, however. It's not that local trails are so "visceral" for me, it's just that I love all trail footage. Y'all could make half-hour videos (*nudge, nudge*) and I'd most likely watch them, start to finish.

What KuЯdt said about enjoying seeing what everyone else is riding sums up my feelings to a tee. I've joked here before that riding trails is like seeing tiddies--once you've ridden one, you want to ride them all.

But most people probably aren't like that. Please continue with the honest feedback. Promise I'll take it to heart and try to produce something that doesn't suck.

Most of the frustration and lack of efficacy stems from the "GoPro effect" and crappy production quality. We've all lamented many times how GoPro seems to slow things down and flatten them out. Twenty miles an hour looks like 10. Rocks seem like pebbles. Pebbles appear as sand. A 2-foot drop is a barely noticeable bump. So something I rode and thought, "The guys are gonna get a kick out of this," when I watch it at home turns to, "They aren't even going to notice it."

Or there are sections of trail where I know another camera angle or some drone footage would not only showcase the terrain, but better demonstrate speed, steepness, etc. For example, check 3:41 in the vid below. A pop-up and follow/hover with a drone here would be awesome and better show what's going on. Instead, you get a peek at the hairpins and, by the time I'm on them, they look like ordinary flat trail. Ho-hum.

Spoiler

This was uploaded a year ago and never shared because everything seemed so slow and featureless on video. But maybe that's just me being hypercritical?

Anyway, sorry to wax so prolix.

[wd40 1976]

I would agree w/r to changing POV.  I get a lot more positive responses, esp from non-riders, on vids where I take the camera off for a 3rd person.  the chesty actually makes a decent tripod.  and you can use the strap to hold it in a tree.  it's just kind of a hassle.  setting it up, hiking back to a starting point where you can get your speed back up to normal, then hiking back to get it.  I very rarely do any of that messing around on a group ride.

a follow drone would kick ass, esp on wide open terrain like what you have, but they are crazy expensive (or were, last I checked).  

that wide-open terrain is a disadvantage to convey speed with a pov camera.  the tight, twisty stuff around here helps increase apparent speed.  the frame of reference just can't change as fast if it's far away.

don't think I shared this one.  a God's run, that turned into a shitshow.  but I did at least finally hit a 3-footer below the Skeletor drop.  got all the bugs worked out, went back and did the creek gap jump, the next day.

 

anyway, I know you were going faster on that straight line decent.  I think most riders know that, plus the risk of snagging a pedal or washing out at that speed.  still a rush to watch.  don't sweat it.  as KuRdt said, keep at it.

[Braff Zacklin 13627]

That's a great vid. I could watch an hour of that, no lie.

You've got some talented trailsmiths. Those 2-foot drops look like so much fun. The one at the very end, however (is that the 3-footer you are talking about?), looked super sketch and no way I would've hit it. Same for the gapper. Can't seem to unfuck my brain for those.

Also, how did you not tear off your derailleur with your chain twisted like that? Sort of a lucky/unlucky thing.

[wd40 1976]

the der was actually the root cause.  the spring had gone soft, so the chain had a ton of slack and jumped off going over the chunk.  I think I mentioned a buddy and I cleaned out Jenson of their 10sp X-9's on closeout years ago, so had one in my garage to swap it out, along with a new chain.

the drop I was talking about is the second-to-last one, just above the cedar stick thing at the end.  kind of a sketchy, blind approach, and a very narrow take-off spot (at least to me).

[KuЯdt 248]

Great vids, guys.  And wd's has that extra bit of entertainment/comedic relief, lol. 

I've never stopped and taken the camera off to get that 3rd person view.  Probably because I'm just too lazy.  I need to try it.  Been thinking about doing another vid with some of the fun SATN bits with the names of the trails and such, so maybe I'll do that and try incorporating 3rd person a bit.

[Al_4_ISU 12470]

Some of the most enjoyable videos I watch are of mediocre riders.  But I'm generally watching more to scout a trail than anything.

Since I'm not much into the whole "air" or "feature" thing, I get a better feel of trails by watching people who suck as much as me.  It's really validating when I watch videos of people hike-a-biking shit I can ride.

[Al_4_ISU 12470]

I'll start playing with my Go-Pro one of these days.

I did just see on YouTube that a local bike filming guy recorded some footage on Sunday that he shot at Decorah that day.  I was riding a few hours earlier, and on almost all of these same trails.  Note the nuns going for a stroll at the very end.  At 2:59 there's a sudden rooty rise that tripped me up the first couple times I ever rode (back in the fatty days).  I ride that trail along the river as a warm up/cool down nearly every ride, and it's always a little mental reminder of progress.

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Al_4_ISU

[Braff Zacklin 13627]

I hate electric bikes.

 

Great looking trail, though. That first drop looked very steep and sketch.

[Braff Zacklin 13627]

4 hours ago, wd40 said:

the drop I was talking about is the second-to-last one, just above the cedar stick thing at the end.  kind of a sketchy, blind approach, and a very narrow take-off spot (at least to me).

Yeah, that's the one that stood out. No bueno for me. Big stones for hitting that, sir.

Is your chest mount over your sternum? One thing I've considered is maybe lowering mine to around my belly, so the footage would show more of the foreground and cockpit. 

[TwiceHorn 31509]

Well, did a pokey, kinda pathetic five miler at Harry Moss.  I did finally bury my pride, walk the creek crossings, and ride the red loop.  That's kind of fun and different.

After walking the creek crossing, I decided that it's more rideable than I initially thought, especially now that they've paved the thing.  The climbout isn't as bad as it looks.

The crossing coming back to the green loop is actually worse than it looks from the other side.

Also, another geometry note.  Moss has a section of pretty quick ups and downs that tend to require direction changes at the tops (transitions from up to down), and often around trees, with a pile of roots.    These aren't quite switchbacks, but they're a bit challenging. You basically have to turn left around a tree, sometimes picking around or bumping over a root ball, at slowish speed and prepare yourself to head downhill.

These are what caused me to dislike the steering of a slack bike, because I had pretty much mastered these with the precise turning of an XC/old school frame, but it got weird and scaryish with the 67.5 head tube angle.  I finally got used to it with the slack frame.

Well, the new frame is slacker still at 65.5, so I had been dreading riding this section.  But unlike the 10mm shorter chainstays, I am not detecting a big change in steering from the 2 degree slacker frame.  I rode the section alright with no great steering difficulties.

It also has a slightly steeper seat tube, which I do find it easier to get behind the saddle on descents, whether raised or lowered.

Edited April 8, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[Al_4_ISU 12470]

I hate electric bikes.
 
Great looking trail, though. That first drop looked very steep and sketch.

When I said “almost” that was the excluded trail. It’s sketchy as hell, and very chunky. A wipe out there would require limestone extraction

Somewhere in this thread I have a picture looking up it. I “run” up it fairly regularly

[sasquatch69 603]

10 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, did a pokey, kinda pathetic five miler at Harry Moss.  I did finally bury my pride, walk the creek crossings, and ride the red loop.  That's kind of fun and different.

 

I haven't ridden through that creek crossing yet - still walk it both ways.  Coming back across at the end is often even more slippery than getting over there.  I also rode right over a snake on the Orange trail there earlier this week - it looked like a root until I got right up on top of it.

Used some birthday $ to buy a decent pair of MTB riding shoes (Adidas Five Ten Sleuths) and they're great  - big improvement in feeling of control compared to the basic sneakers I wore previously.  I also finally replaced the BMX-style original pedals on my GT with modern flats - they're some Race Face knockoffs that were highly rated on Amazon, and so far I really like them.

I've done 30 miles in the past two days - combination of great rides at Horseshoe, Harry Moss, RCP and Erwin.  Also went to Big Cedar last Saturday with a buddy, and got to ride his new Scott 29er.  First time I've ridden a modern bike that size, and now I'm seriously jonesing to upgrade.

 

 

[TwiceHorn 31509]

8 hours ago, sasquatch69 said:

I haven't ridden through that creek crossing yet - still walk it both ways.  Coming back across at the end is often even more slippery than getting over there.  I also rode right over a snake on the Orange trail there earlier this week - it looked like a root until I got right up on top of it.

Used some birthday $ to buy a decent pair of MTB riding shoes (Adidas Five Ten Sleuths) and they're great  - big improvement in feeling of control compared to the basic sneakers I wore previously.  I also finally replaced the BMX-style original pedals on my GT with modern flats - they're some Race Face knockoffs that were highly rated on Amazon, and so far I really like them.

I've done 30 miles in the past two days - combination of great rides at Horseshoe, Harry Moss, RCP and Erwin.  Also went to Big Cedar last Saturday with a buddy, and got to ride his new Scott 29er.  First time I've ridden a modern bike that size, and now I'm seriously jonesing to upgrade.

 

 

Yeah, the riding shoes make a difference in multiple ways.  I run a similar set up with Chesters and Adidas Trail Cross.  Those shoes are the sturdiest shoes I own.  My hiking shoes/boots aren't as rigid and protective as those things, yet they're still comfortable and walkable.  I'm also pretty surprised how much traction they give when hike-a-biking, given the minimal sole pattern.

Currently, I don't think I could keep up with you.  A variety of little things seem to be interfering with my riding and regaining fitness.  After yesterdays very moderate ride, I wasn't exhausted or anything, just didn't feel like going around again.  Got home, did a few things, showered, and then crashed for three hours.  I think maybe the vaccine took more out of me than I realized once the achiness and malaise was gone.

Erwin is a pretty fun trail -in the shade-.  I've come to realize that I don't like riding out in the open much, particularly when it gets hot as balls.

I rode a low-end hardtail for several years that probably matches my abilities well, but upgrading to a low-end squishy, but a good one, has been one of the best things I've ever done.  It's more comfortable pounding out miles at a place like River Legacy or RCP, and more confidence-inspiring on some of the ruggeder things.  The steering on a slack frame will probably screw with you for a while in the lower-speed, twisty turny stuff, though.

[sasquatch69 603]

59 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah, the riding shoes make a difference in multiple ways.  I run a similar set up with Chesters and Adidas Trail Cross.  Those shoes are the sturdiest shoes I own.  My hiking shoes/boots aren't as rigid and protective as those things, yet they're still comfortable and walkable.  I'm also pretty surprised how much traction they give when hike-a-biking, given the minimal sole pattern.

Currently, I don't think I could keep up with you.  A variety of little things seem to be interfering with my riding and regaining fitness.  After yesterdays very moderate ride, I wasn't exhausted or anything, just didn't feel like going around again.  Got home, did a few things, showered, and then crashed for three hours.  I think maybe the vaccine took more out of me than I realized once the achiness and malaise was gone.

Erwin is a pretty fun trail -in the shade-.  I've come to realize that I don't like riding out in the open much, particularly when it gets hot as balls.

I rode a low-end hardtail for several years that probably matches my abilities well, but upgrading to a low-end squishy, but a good one, has been one of the best things I've ever done.  It's more comfortable pounding out miles at a place like River Legacy or RCP, and more confidence-inspiring on some of the ruggeder things.  The steering on a slack frame will probably screw with you for a while in the lower-speed, twisty turny stuff, though.

I'm still pretty slow, but I just try to push myself to keep going a bit further when I'm ready to quit, even if it's just an extra mile or two on flatter trails. I'm having some gear slippage issues on harder climbs which has bogged me down a bit - I've greased up the chain, cassette, etc, which helped, but I think it's mostly due to the bike's age.

Erwin was gorgeous last night, even in the open field sections. Getting second vax dose tomorrow which may take me out for a bit, so trying to squeeze in what I can this week.

 

[TwiceHorn 31509]

My der goes into the big cog easily, so I can be grateful for that.  But it usually requires a double upshift to come out of it, so I go 11-9.  and it is generally lazy and slow on upshifts until you get to the last 2-3 cogs.

I guess it worked alright when it was new, but it started the 11-9 behavior pretty early.  Cable replacement and cable-housing replacement fixed it very temporarily and it didn't last long.

I think it's adjusted alright, but I keep twiddling the barrel a little but it never quite fixes it.  As long as it downshifts smoothly and rapidly, I'm ok.

Also, I find adjustment on a stand or with the bike upside down in the field is pretty useless as it changes behavior under load and with my weight on it.

It's an NX and I attribute the problem to the nearly 180 turn the cable makes after "entering" the der, around that janky wheel.  I try to keep it clean and lubed, but lubing just attracts more dirt, one way or another.  I suppose all of the SRAM rd's have that wheel and cable turn, not sure about Shimano, but it seems to be a problematic area.

[TexPx 2323]

I'm still pretty slow, but I just try to push myself to keep going a bit further when I'm ready to quit, even if it's just an extra mile or two on flatter trails. I'm having some gear slippage issues on harder climbs which has bogged me down a bit - I've greased up the chain, cassette, etc, which helped, but I think it's mostly due to the bike's age.
Erwin was gorgeous last night, even in the open field sections. Getting second vax dose tomorrow which may take me out for a bit, so trying to squeeze in what I can this week.
 

That’s one of mine. New peeps have done a good job with upkeep and expansion.


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[Al_4_ISU 12470]

I mentioned awhile back that a county park on the outskirts of the town I live in (Cresco) was being opened to biking. Despite it being unseasonably cold and dreary I went out and mapped the total distance of trails. Got about 8.5 miles with the snowshoe trails providing some legit single track. Don’t have the miles, quality of trail, or elevation gain of Decorah, but it’s 15 miles closer and pretty damn good riding.












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[wd40 1976]

RPR, today.  some serious pucker, they're building out there, now.