The Surly Mountain Biking Thread

[TwiceHorn 30851]

5 hours ago, Bigpoppapump said:

I think crank length is in the realm of things with knee tendons? I know I found some formula where you could measure your leg for the proper length of crank arms, or maybe it was posted here, that might help?

I don't think it's a geometry/fit issue.  I have ridden for years without issue and am very sensitive to a seat too low or too forward.

And, it's not happening to right knee.

Oddly enough, the MTB has 175 cranks and there's a good bit of speculation that 170 is probably adequate for all but the storkiest.  The fixie/ss has 170.

I mentioned it upthread, but a few times after I got Five Tens, I wound up banging my left knee, right on the edge of the kneecap, on my dropper lever doing sudden stops.  It was because I was lifting my foot to "unclip" or disengage from the pedals.  That stopped happening, but may have sensitized some tendons.  It really correlates to starting off on the single-speed with a big mash from the left leg.  I now make sure that I get a rolling start before trying to pedal.  The mashing is just largely unavoidable on the single speed.

It's at an early stage, from all I read, I just don't want it to progress.  A riding buddy suggested more careful stretching of the quads and I do tend to spend more time on hamstrings and calves because I know they're tight.

[Bigpoppapump 529]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I don't think it's a geometry/fit issue.  I have ridden for years without issue and am very sensitive to a seat too low or too forward.

And, it's not happening to right knee.

Oddly enough, the MTB has 175 cranks and there's a good bit of speculation that 170 is probably adequate for all but the storkiest.  The fixie/ss has 170.

I mentioned it upthread, but a few times after I got Five Tens, I wound up banging my left knee, right on the edge of the kneecap, on my dropper lever doing sudden stops.  It was because I was lifting my foot to "unclip" or disengage from the pedals.  That stopped happening, but may have sensitized some tendons.  It really correlates to starting off on the single-speed with a big mash from the left leg.  I now make sure that I get a rolling start before trying to pedal.  The mashing is just largely unavoidable on the single speed.

It's at an early stage, from all I read, I just don't want it to progress.  A riding buddy suggested more careful stretching of the quads and I do tend to spend more time on hamstrings and calves because I know they're tight.

Gotcha,

here is the link in case anyone is curious as FYI:

https://bikedynamics.co.uk/FitGuidecranks.htm

[TwiceHorn 30851]

2 minutes ago, Bigpoppapump said:

Gotcha,

here is the link in case anyone is curious as FYI:

https://bikedynamics.co.uk/FitGuidecranks.htm

I'm 6-1, so I am apparently out of the danger zone for cranks that are too long.

[Bigpoppapump 529]

I'm 6-0, but have a long torso and short limbs, so I've had to make a bunch of dumb adjustments to get my bike where it is comfortable.  Ended up getting 50mm rise handlebars and haven't looked back.

[jw4381 3044]

On 9/26/2021 at 7:11 AM, TwiceHorn said:

Welp. I think mashing on my single-speed has given me an incipient case of patellar tendinitis in my left knee.  Just the occasional twinge while mashing and less so on the MTB because gears.  And on rare occasion, it will "stiffen" up while sitting around in the evening, such that it is sore when I stand up.

I probably need to lay off the single speed for a while, maybe riding altogether.

I think I caused it while mashing excessively on the SS when I had just gotten it, especially starting up with my left foot/leg.  Takes a while to learn how not to do that.  And then I continue to aggravate it a little with mashing on both bikes, but I do more mashing and it's more unavoidable on the SS.

Any advice?

I was gonna say maybe your seat post is a bit too low but looks like y’all covered it. 

[TwiceHorn 30851]

5 hours ago, jw4381 said:

I was gonna say maybe your seat post is a bit too low but looks like y’all covered it. 

Actually, it feels exactly like that, but it's sporadic not constant as it would be if seat too low or forward.  I think I just put too damned much pressure on my knee.

[TwiceHorn 30851]

So, tell me about brakes.

After riding the single speed, which has mechanical/cable rim brakes, the right/rear brake on my MTB felt a little spongy, and moreso than the left/front.  At first I thought it was just the comparison of rim/mechanical to disc/hydraulic, but it seemed like more, with front lever having less travel and feeling less spongy than rear.

I don't use my brakes a lot, really, unlike those of you blessed with extended descents.  I do use the rear brake a lot for control, though, and I am of the understanding that that kind of use can be harder on pads than flat-out stopping.  The bike has 2000 miles plus on it and resin pads.  Also, I was getting a fairly consistent metallic graunch noise from back there.  So, although it could be a bleed issue, I concluded time for new pads.  I tried looking into the caliper, but it was really hard to tell how thick was the material remaining.  I had been suspecting that it may be time to change them for a while, although shops didn't say anything about it.

So, I found a set of pads at REI, picked them up, and went about changing them.  When I got the old ones out, surprise, lots of material left; I'm guessing 2mm at least and they looked fairly comparable to the new ones without side-by-side comparison (I didn't want to fiddle with the new ones and risk touching them).  In for a penny, in for a pound, I swapped them out.  No problems.  Graunch is gone, lever feels firmer than it did.  I did clean the rotors with alcohol and the calipers/pistons, too.  Didn't seem too dirty or to have any oil on them.

Wonder what that was all about.

[jw4381 3044]

I’d say it was your pads. Even if they look good a lot of times they’ll start to wear into the rotor. Especially if everything is working now that you changed them out.

[TwiceHorn 30851]

On 9/27/2021 at 1:51 PM, Bigpoppapump said:

I'm 6-0, but have a long torso and short limbs, so I've had to make a bunch of dumb adjustments to get my bike where it is comfortable.  Ended up getting 50mm rise handlebars and haven't looked back.

I'm more long-limbed.  Still, as that Outside article indicates, I wonder of the long and low bikes aren't stretching people out too far.  As I mentioned upthread, when I got my new frame, which has a still longer reach than the old frame, I felt a little cramped until I rotated my bars up (and forward) as far as they would go.

[TwiceHorn 30851]

Welp, took a week off and almost went stir crazy.  Was planning to ride a trail this morning with gears to continue to go easy on the knee.  But, of course, it rained, so a lot of the trails shut down.

So, did a 10 mile/12mph ride on the SS on the streets.  No twinges at all.  I kind of avoided known hills, but there are still some climbs on the route.  So the knee did see some action.  Super-careful about start ups.

I also stretched quads all week, so I am sure that helped.

I am going to pronounce myself tentatively "cured."

Edited October 2, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[sasquatch69 576]

Got four rides in this week before the rain hit on Friday. Rode another 8mi on the Trinity Skyline Trail (mostly gravel) today just for scenic views and something different, especially since my three “local” trails are still closed.

Put some Maxxis Rekons on the bike that a buddy gave me when he went tubeless. So far, so good. 
 

Edited October 3, 2021 by sasquatch69

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

Joined this crew two weeks ago.

Santa Cruz Tallboy XXL  (Carbon R).  Been a little over a decade since I've been on an MTB, but all the single track right out my door has been calling for a while.  Been difficult to get ahold of something in my size but having fun now.  First full suspension bike, so that's nice.

[TwiceHorn 30851]

2 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Joined this crew two weeks ago.

Santa Cruz Tallboy XXL  (Carbon R).  Been a little over a decade since I've been on an MTB, but all the single track right out my door has been calling for a while.  Been difficult to get ahold of something in my size but having fun now.  First full suspension bike, so that's nice.

Starting off "small" I see.  Nice bike.  One of my ride partners has one.

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

Thanks.  Yeah, getting one in my size was a challenge.  Been looking on and off for the past year or so.  Forgot how much fun I had with this activity.

[midtown 3339]

Jeez. How freaking tall are you?

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

I always just answer 6' 5''.  But technically, which matters for sizing these things, I am nearly 6' 6''.   My last bike was a Fisher hardtail that I bought for about $500 back in the day.  Good lord the times have changed.

https://bendtrails.org/

Phil's Trail Complex on that site is about a 7 minute car ride from me.  

"Ticket to Ride" :

https://bendtrails.org/trail/ticket-to-ride-north/

Is about a 25 minute bike ride from my door.  I'm only doing 'greens' now if I can help it, although I can handle blues with a lot of extra braking.   With all the trails practically right next to me, it was way past time to get a bike.  Covid just made things very difficult to obtain around here.  And honestly even a base level carbon was more than I wanted to spend, but I'm happy with it.  October was good timing however, as the weather is perfect.  When it start to snow I'll switch to the snowboard.

Edited October 5, 2021 by MC Fresh Breath

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

Question for you Strava users.   I've been using it in my brief time back b/c the auto pause works pretty great for me.   Just wondering if most of you stick with free or paid version of the app?  I'm on the trial but no idea if the paid is worth it or  not.  Part of me thinks it would be just to get rid of the banner thing asking me to try the paid....

 

[Bigpoppapump 529]

29 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Question for you Strava users.   I've been using it in my brief time back b/c the auto pause works pretty great for me.   Just wondering if most of you stick with free or paid version of the app?  I'm on the trial but no idea if the paid is worth it or  not.  Part of me thinks it would be just to get rid of the banner thing asking me to try the paid....

 

Paid, mainly did it for the beacon or whatever it is called, you can send your tracked location to someone, like significant other, or riding buddies.

[midtown 3339]

3 hours ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Question for you Strava users.   I've been using it in my brief time back b/c the auto pause works pretty great for me.   Just wondering if most of you stick with free or paid version of the app?  I'm on the trial but no idea if the paid is worth it or  not.  Part of me thinks it would be just to get rid of the banner thing asking me to try the paid....
 

Free but for the relatively small cost esp considering you are participating in one expensive fucking hobbies maybe kick in for the paid version.

Edited October 5, 2021 by midtown

[Your Mom 4763]

I used the free version for a long time.  Just checked and now I'm on the paid version but don't remember why.  Mostly I just use it to follow my son and keep up with his high school track workouts.  My rides go on there automatically but it's rare that I actively do anything with it.  

Strava for mountain biking seems like overkill.  Every trail and type of terrain is so different that keeping track of mileage really doesn't mean anything like it does for a roadie or a runner.  10 miles on one trail might be a casual cruise while 10 miles on another trail might be a multi-hour ass-kicking.  I guess a lot of people use it to chase KOMs or to compare their efforts on a trail.  I'm rarely ever aware of how fast I go or how long a trail takes me.  I tend to judge myself on the obstacles I clean or fail to clean each ride without regard to the speed.

Trailforks is my go-to app.  I use it to find trails, to get un-lost, to remind myself of trail names, etc...  MTB Project is also good and has better descriptions of trails if you're somewhere unfamiliar, but for just seeing them and navigating them I like Trailforks user-experience best.

[Al_4_ISU 12376]

Question for you Strava users.   I've been using it in my brief time back b/c the auto pause works pretty great for me.   Just wondering if most of you stick with free or paid version of the app?  I'm on the trial but no idea if the paid is worth it or  not.  Part of me thinks it would be just to get rid of the banner thing asking me to try the paid....
 

I kept with free, but I really only use it to know distance of various loops I ride

[Al_4_ISU 12376]

I used the free version for a long time.  Just checked and now I'm on the paid version but don't remember why.  Mostly I just use it to follow my son and keep up with his high school track workouts.  My rides go on there automatically but it's rare that I actively do anything with it.  
Strava for mountain biking seems like overkill.  Every trail and type of terrain is so different that keeping track of mileage really doesn't mean anything like it does for a roadie or a runner.  10 miles on one trail might be a casual cruise while 10 miles on another trail might be a multi-hour ass-kicking.  I guess a lot of people use it to chase KOMs or to compare their efforts on a trail.  I'm rarely ever aware of how fast I go or how long a trail takes me.  I tend to judge myself on the obstacles I clean or fail to clean each ride without regard to the speed.
Trailforks is my go-to app.  I use it to find trails, to get un-lost, to remind myself of trail names, etc...  MTB Project is also good and has better descriptions of trails if you're somewhere unfamiliar, but for just seeing them and navigating them I like Trailforks user-experience best.

I sprung for Trailforks premium. It absolutely kept me where I wanted to go in the Ozarks last spring.

[TwiceHorn 30851]

Cooter Brown recommended Alltrails.  I'm pretty happy with it.  I just like having a log of distances and speeds, and, its trail maps are pretty accurate, so I can locate myself if need be.

In DFW, Strava's segments don't correspond very well with the loops of the local trails, except maybe the most popular ones.  I therefore found it kind of useless and have no need for the competitive aspects of it.

I do use trailforks and mtb project to try to suss out new to me trails.

Edited October 7, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[Bigpoppapump 529]

I use all trails as well, strava I used for logging miles, tracking the "estimate" of calorie loss and the beacon feature.

[KuЯdt 248]

I somehow found myself with paid subscriptions to Strava, Trailforks, and Alltrails.  I only paid for Trailforks myself, the others were gifted to me for one reason or another.

I like Strava to keep track of stats, and to sort of also track against loose goals I have for myself such as monthly and yearly mileage and elevation gain.  I do like the leaderboard feature and ability to look back at my past performances on segments, to see if I'm getting faster or slower.  And I am also a little competitive with a couple of friends.  But I'll likely not renew it even as much as I'm into stats, the basic stuff is enough for me.

Trailforks is super useful for navigating your way around places you've not ridden before and worth the mere $30/year or so they charge.

I find Alltrails only useful for hiking, so I rarely use it.

[Al_4_ISU 12376]

I definitely find Alltrails more of a hiking app and Trailforks the best for navigating new bike trails.

I even pull out Trailforks when I'm vaguely familiar with an area.

[jw4381 3044]

On 10/2/2021 at 9:19 AM, TwiceHorn said:

Welp, took a week off and almost went stir crazy.  Was planning to ride a trail this morning with gears to continue to go easy on the knee.  But, of course, it rained, so a lot of the trails shut down.

So, did a 10 mile/12mph ride on the SS on the streets.  No twinges at all.  I kind of avoided known hills, but there are still some climbs on the route.  So the knee did see some action.  Super-careful about start ups.

I also stretched quads all week, so I am sure that helped.

I am going to pronounce myself tentatively "cured."

Excellent. 

Beautiful day for a ride.

 

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

hopefully you all don't mind some dumb questions here and there.  do you all have any favorite/preferred floor pumps?   My bike came set up tubeless, which is a new thing for me.  not sure if that matters, but I have seen some of the more expensive pumps mention something about the tubeless thing.  

my largest concern is the last floor pump I had did poorly with presta valves.  seemed to never make a good connection.  my old hand pump for the trails does way better in that regard still.  so good connection on the presta side would be my biggest desire.

edit:  eyeballing this one:
Lezyne Pressure Over Drive | Jenson USA

Edited October 9, 2021 by MC Fresh Breath

[midtown 3339]

I bought a basic presta floor pump from Performance Bike probably 30 years ago. Still going strong

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

Question number 2:  Do you all wash your bikes or no?  I don't recall doing that very often on the hard tail.  Here in Bend one picks up lots of dust pretty quickly on even the simplest of rides.

[Braff Zacklin 13299]

Most floor pumps accommodate Schrader, Presta and even Dunlop. For me, they're all basically the same, but I'd recommend one that doesn't require swapping out any parts.

I use an old Pedro's Domestique that sports a twin-headed adapter--one side is Presta, the other Schrader. Pressure gauge is analog; digital is nicer and potentially more accurate but also more expensive.

For mounting some tubes, a floor pump won't be able to deliver enough air, even with the valve core removed from the stem. You'll need a compressor or some other form of concentrated air to do the trick.

 

EDIT: And, yes, nothing wrong with washing your bikes, but don't direct high-pressure water at anything. Bucket and sponge work best. Hose is OK, too, just don't blast it.

Edited October 9, 2021 by Braff Zacklin

[midtown 3339]

I would not but a multi pump. Buy a presta specific pump

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

17 minutes ago, midtown said:

I would not but a multi pump. Buy a presta specific pump

I honestly haven't found one that is presta only...looking on performance bike, jensonusa and chain reaction.  Edit:  I did find a dual head one like Braff describes.  Maybe that's best bet?

Edited October 9, 2021 by MC Fresh Breath

[Bigpoppapump 529]

There are MTB specific pumps, that focus on low pressure points, I have a good pump thats like 15 years old and still use.  For tubeless, you will play around with psi to find what best suits you for what you ride.  I run like 23~ PSI for south austin trails, most run like 20 for the same. 

I wash my bike every 2~ ish weeks. Depending on how much I ride.

[Your Mom 4763]

22 hours ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

but I have seen some of the more expensive pumps mention something about the tubeless thing.  

I think that's a just a pump that can put out higher pressure for seating the bead on a tubeless tire.  You need the get the air in quick for that.  You only need that for the initial setup, not for daily pressure upkeep.  I don't have one but my basic dual chamber pump can still usually seat the bead.  If not a bike shop would use a compressor and have it on in seconds for a nominal fee if any.  

[Braff Zacklin 13299]

1 hour ago, Your Mom said:

I think that's a just a pump that can put out higher pressure for seating the bead on a tubeless tire.  You need the get the air in quick for that.  You only need that for the initial setup, not for daily pressure upkeep.  I don't have one but my basic dual chamber pump can still usually seat the bead.  If not a bike shop would use a compressor and have it on in seconds for a nominal fee if any.  

Some of the higher-end pumps have an air reservoir that allows them to store up a modest amount of compressed air for seating tubeless beads. Here's one for example:

https://www.jensonusa.com/Lezyne-Pressure-Over-Drive

[TwiceHorn 30851]

Not sure it's really higher pressure that you need so much as a high volume/high pressure RATE to seat tubeless.

There's kind of a technique to it.  I pump normally to start to fill out the tire and push the beads up against the rim, but it's still leaky.  Then, pump like a madman for 5-10 strokes to get them to start to seal and seat.  Keep going until you reach 30-40 psi and hear them pop.  My Maxxis tires are fairly easy to seat (and also to get off the rim with my hands).  Some others I had were not at all.  I used CO2 carts.  The good news was that I could use the 12g airgun cheapies.

There are some things you can make using plastic coke bottles that will accumulate the volume and then vent it into the tire to seat tubeless.

I don't really see the point in spending on gauges.  The actual psi is irrelevant because you have to use trial and error to figure out what pressure works right for you, and, as long as the gauge is repeatable, then you're fine.  In my observation, most of the gauges are pretty repeatable.  

Edited October 10, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[Braff Zacklin 13299]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Not sure it's really higher pressure that you need so much as a high volume/high pressure RATE to seat tubeless.

You need a large volume of air in a short amount of time to inflate the bead because, at normal flows, the air simply leaks out between the bead and the rim.

Tight-fitting tires and sealant can overcome this, but for loose-fitting tires, you'll need a large amount of air in a short amount of time ... and that usually means pressurized air because you're limited to the relatively narrow passage of the valve stem.

[TwiceHorn 30851]

4 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

You need a large volume of air in a short amount of time to inflate the bead because, at normal flows, the air simply leaks out between the bead and the rim.

Tight-fitting tires and sealant can overcome this, but for loose-fitting tires, you'll need a large amount of air in a short amount of time ... and that usually means pressurized air because you're limited to the relatively narrow passage of the valve stem.

The weird thing was that the tires that were hard to seat had a very stiff/strong bead.  It made them hard to get off the rim and hard to seat.

The Maxxis are much "looser" and I think that means the bead is more flexible and/or larger diameter than the other tires.

A large-volume pump (big "barrel") helps, so resist getting something compact/short/small diameter.

[Braff Zacklin 13299]

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

The weird thing was that the tires that were hard to seat had a very stiff/strong bead.  It made them hard to get off the rim and hard to seat.

The Maxxis are much "looser" and I think that means the bead is more flexible and/or larger diameter than the other tires.

A large-volume pump (big "barrel") helps, so resist getting something compact/short/small diameter.

I've been told there's no rhyme or rule for which tires are difficult to mount tubeless and which aren't.

However, if I can work a tire on the rim easily, with bare hands and no hook, I usually need to use my compressor to get the beads to seat. If I have to fight and wrestle with the tire to get it on the rim, it will often seat with a floor pump, even with the valve core still installed.

Your experience seems the opposite of mine, which confirms the "no rhyme or rule" statement.

/shrug

[sasquatch69 576]

MTB trails were closed due to rain (and last weekend was really the end of their season here anyway), but got some good miles in on gravel and pavement here in Vail this weekend. 

[TwiceHorn 30851]

So the little rubber/plastic plug that covers the cap screw on my top cap fell out/off/disappeared.

I have looked all over and there are tons of top caps, of course, some with the little plug, but no little plugs.

Is that something a bike shop might sell me or give me?

[TwiceHorn 30851]

On 10/14/2021 at 9:30 PM, TwiceHorn said:

So the little rubber/plastic plug that covers the cap screw on my top cap fell out/off/disappeared.

I have looked all over and there are tons of top caps, of course, some with the little plug, but no little plugs.

Is that something a bike shop might sell me or give me?

Well, answering my own question, I stopped by Dallas Bike Works finally and they dug one up for me.

Also, I was astounded that they had a full floor of Santa Cruz, Yeti, Transition, and other high-end bikes.  I just assumed that supply chain was still fucking with bikes and they'd sell out of anything they got pdq.  Even had a couple marked down.

[wd40 1976]

bump(s)

 

[destroya 358]

On 11/13/2021 at 4:06 PM, wd40 said:

bump(s)

 

Where was that filmed?

[jw4381 3044]

Cold weather is setting in and I haven't been able to ride much due to other obligations. Sad panda...

[Al_4_ISU 12376]

Last day of harvest. No snow on the horizon. Gonna have to work in rides around the freeze/thaw cycle (lots of highs in the 40’s and lows in the 20’s) and get my rides in in the window between sun up and thaw. But I’m damn excited.

Frozen ground is actually a pretty great riding surface as long as there isn’t precipitation.

[TwiceHorn 30851]

Welp, I have been riding the shit out of my single speed.  Hopefully helping my stamina and endurance, definitely improving strength.

Rain has kind of kept me off the trails, but sheer laziness of not wanting to bother with the rack and driving to a trail has been a big issue for me.

Going to meet a friend at Rowlett Creek today, so we'll see how it goes.

[Al_4_ISU 12376]

Rides today and yesterday. Gorgeous late fall conditions. Alleviates football.

[TwiceHorn 30851]

4 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Welp, I have been riding the shit out of my single speed.  Hopefully helping my stamina and endurance, definitely improving strength.

Rain has kind of kept me off the trails, but sheer laziness of not wanting to bother with the rack and driving to a trail has been a big issue for me.

Going to meet a friend at Rowlett Creek today, so we'll see how it goes.

Well, the answer is personal records as to speed and distance.  I don't do Strava, so no PRs for me, but just eyeballing, close to my longest ride and I think about a half mph faster than I have ever notched.  We had a group of five and my normal riding buddy said he had like 9 PRs on the ride and I was chasing him most of the time.  

I did not, however, clean some of the climbs on the north loops, probably because I haven't ridden there since early September and I was not really shifting properly to do so.

I have been marveling at my laziness in constantly downshifting on the trails while riding "Pedal Fucker" the single-speed.  But I forgot that twisties don't completely allow you to pedal, fucker.