The Surly Mountain Biking Thread

[midtown 3357]

Am I the only one having a hard time adjusting to this heat and humidity?  Both Wed and today went out and after 30 mins I am just beat and feeling a little woozy.  Good food intake, lots of water.   I've been riding in San Antonio summers for a decade now and I really don't remember the heat affecting me like this.   Getting old sucks.

Edited May 7, 2022 by midtown

[TwiceHorn 32104]

29 minutes ago, midtown said:

Am I the only one having a hard time adjusting to this heat and humidity?  Both Wed and today went out and after 30 mins I am just beat and feeling a little woozy.  Good food intake, lots of water.   I've been riding in San Antonio summers for a decade now and I really don't remember the heat affecting me like this.   Getting old sucks.

Shit, no, man.  Seems like the heat has come on pretty fast.  Several weeks of 60-70, then some rain, then boom 80+ and humid.  Then a break from that and boom 90+.   I have had several rides like that.  That's why I was pleased with myself yesterday, although it wasn't humid, or didn't feel like it.

I do, eventually, get used to it.  But it's like its own conditioning setback for me, like two weeks off the bike when the temp goes up 10 degrees.

[Pescado_Rojo 19593]

9 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Shit, no, man.  Seems like the heat has come on pretty fast.  Several weeks of 60-70, then some rain, then boom 80+ and humid.  Then a break from that and boom 90+.   I have had several rides like that.  That's why I was pleased with myself yesterday, although it wasn't humid, or didn't feel like it.

I do, eventually, get used to it.  But it's like its own conditioning setback for me, like two weeks off the bike when the temp goes up 10 degrees.

yea, I think it's the sudden onset and the humidity. No chance to build up to it.

[TwiceHorn 32104]

DId another heat ride at Arbor Hills, which is short but climby.  I did all the climbs dab-free twice but one, but weirdly didn't do the descents on the first lap because I couldn't remember "what they looked like."  I went at noonish to try and let some of the humidity burn off and I think it was about 85.

Last time I rode there, I failed a couple of the tougher climbs, a mix of steepish, twisty, chutey, and rooty.

And, I finally looked up the "magic" gear on the Deore 12.  It's a 33 (30 up front).  The old cassette went from 32 to 36.  Hard to imagine 1 tooth making that much difference, but between that and the linkage and the higher-engagement hubs, it's fucking magic for me:  the cadence just works, I have enough "torque" to actually supplement the wheel lift without spinning or going out of control (or feeling like it).  And I still have three more gears if things get rough.

The other thing is, whatever it is about the steering that makes me feel more confident, when I'm climbing and coming up on something chunky and don't have the energy for a wheel lift, I am much better able to pick my way around that chunk and just keep going.

This Ripley is a bit of a revelation.  It really is a climbing machine.

Edited May 13, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[Your Mom 4982]

I ate shit pretty hard the other day.  Nothing broken, but dirt rash, cuts, and scrapes from ankle to hip and a big raw spot on my forearm.  There's a drop on the South Austin Trail Network, that we chatted about a year or two ago, by the Espcarpment Spillway. Maybe a 4-footer or so.   I've been slow rolling it for a while and started hucking right off it maybe 6 months ago.  It's the kind of drop I hate with a few too many rocks on the lead-in.  It's not enough to throw the bike off course, but it's enough that I think about it.   I got a little too comfortable with it the the other day and went off it more casually than normal.  Got crooked in the air and had about a full second airborne when I knew it wasn't going to end well.  Landed with the bike traveling one direction and pointed in another.  Bounced awkwardly and slid a few yards in the dirt and gravel.  

I've been pretty good about wearing pads when I do stuff like that, but it was a spur-of-the-moment thing on a casual ride so no pads.  We're getting more and more features built on what used to be my boring neighborhood cruise trail.  Knee pads are probably about to become standard on more rides for me, and elbow pads on some days too.  They'd have both prevented the worst of the dirt rash on this day.   

[TwiceHorn 32104]

10 hours ago, Your Mom said:

I ate shit pretty hard the other day.  Nothing broken, but dirt rash, cuts, and scrapes from ankle to hip and a big raw spot on my forearm.  There's a drop on the South Austin Trail Network, that we chatted about a year or two ago, by the Espcarpment Spillway. Maybe a 4-footer or so.   I've been slow rolling it for a while and started hucking right off it maybe 6 months ago.  It's the kind of drop I hate with a few too many rocks on the lead-in.  It's not enough to throw the bike off course, but it's enough that I think about it.   I got a little too comfortable with it the the other day and went off it more casually than normal.  Got crooked in the air and had about a full second airborne when I knew it wasn't going to end well.  Landed with the bike traveling one direction and pointed in another.  Bounced awkwardly and slid a few yards in the dirt and gravel.  

I've been pretty good about wearing pads when I do stuff like that, but it was a spur-of-the-moment thing on a casual ride so no pads.  We're getting more and more features built on what used to be my boring neighborhood cruise trail.  Knee pads are probably about to become standard on more rides for me, and elbow pads on some days too.  They'd have both prevented the worst of the dirt rash on this day.   

I think if we had more rocks as a general proposition, I'd consider pads pretty heavily.  I don't eat it very often because I don't take too many chances, and there aren't that many chances to take.  Even most of our droppy/jumpy things land in dirt.  

[Pescado_Rojo 19593]

6 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I think if we had more rocks as a general proposition, I'd consider pads pretty heavily.  I don't eat it very often because I don't take too many chances, and there aren't that many chances to take.  Even most of our droppy/jumpy things land in dirt.  

With the frequency I've been hitting tree gates, I'm thinking about shoulder pads. 

[Austinvines 318]

I ate shit pretty hard the other day.  Nothing broken, but dirt rash, cuts, and scrapes from ankle to hip and a big raw spot on my forearm.  There's a drop on the South Austin Trail Network, that we chatted about a year or two ago, by the Espcarpment Spillway. Maybe a 4-footer or so.   I've been slow rolling it for a while and started hucking right off it maybe 6 months ago.  It's the kind of drop I hate with a few too many rocks on the lead-in.  It's not enough to throw the bike off course, but it's enough that I think about it.   I got a little too comfortable with it the the other day and went off it more casually than normal.  Got crooked in the air and had about a full second airborne when I knew it wasn't going to end well.  Landed with the bike traveling one direction and pointed in another.  Bounced awkwardly and slid a few yards in the dirt and gravel.  
I've been pretty good about wearing pads when I do stuff like that, but it was a spur-of-the-moment thing on a casual ride so no pads.  We're getting more and more features built on what used to be my boring neighborhood cruise trail.  Knee pads are probably about to become standard on more rides for me, and elbow pads on some days too.  They'd have both prevented the worst of the dirt rash on this day.   

Ouch. That’s a short runout and I’ve never even rolled it. Ever do the run of drops/ledges at Avana around the tank? Was trying the South SATN Social ride and came across them. Walked several but it looked fun for other folks.

[KuЯdt 248]

On 5/13/2022 at 10:36 AM, Your Mom said:

I ate shit pretty hard the other day.  Nothing broken, but dirt rash, cuts, and scrapes from ankle to hip and a big raw spot on my forearm.  There's a drop on the South Austin Trail Network, that we chatted about a year or two ago, by the Espcarpment Spillway. Maybe a 4-footer or so.   I've been slow rolling it for a while and started hucking right off it maybe 6 months ago.  It's the kind of drop I hate with a few too many rocks on the lead-in.  It's not enough to throw the bike off course, but it's enough that I think about it.   I got a little too comfortable with it the the other day and went off it more casually than normal.  Got crooked in the air and had about a full second airborne when I knew it wasn't going to end well.  Landed with the bike traveling one direction and pointed in another.  Bounced awkwardly and slid a few yards in the dirt and gravel.  

I've been pretty good about wearing pads when I do stuff like that, but it was a spur-of-the-moment thing on a casual ride so no pads.  We're getting more and more features built on what used to be my boring neighborhood cruise trail.  Knee pads are probably about to become standard on more rides for me, and elbow pads on some days too.  They'd have both prevented the worst of the dirt rash on this day.   

yeah the run up to that is a bit janky and pretty blind.  Also, I often do a ride-by before I hit it because a couple of times there have been some big rocks sitting right in the middle of the landing.

[dillbirt 12]

I believe that is called Andre’s drop. Super short exit for sure


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[Your Mom 4982]

15 hours ago, dillbirt said:

I believe that is called Andre’s drop. Super short exit for sure


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Did not know that, but it makes perfect sense.  Its namesake lives in my neighborhood and I’ve watched him ride up the thing from the bottom and then turn and huck off of it.  Good kid though.   He told me to be on the lookout in a few weeks for some new stuff they’re building.  

Edited May 17, 2022 by Your Mom

[dillbirt 12]

Did not know that, but it makes perfect sense.  Its namesake lives in my neighborhood and I’ve watched him ride up the thing from the bottom and then turn and huck off of it.  Good kid though.   He told me to be on the lookout in a few weeks for some new stuff they’re building.  

Well, that’s what I hear everyone call it. My older son came up through the NICA circuit with him and they still ride together occasionally. Good kid indeed, he’s always up to something. I guess we will have to wait what they are working on


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[Austinvines 318]

Well, that’s what I hear everyone call it. My older son came up through the NICA circuit with him and they still ride together occasionally. Good kid indeed, he’s always up to something. I guess we will have to wait what they are working on


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Was your kid on the Bulldog MTB team?


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[dillbirt 12]

Was your kid on the Bulldog MTB team?


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Yeah, his last season was 2020. My middle schooler just wrapped his second season


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[Marcusharbinger 5]

Just got a Kona unit x 29er. Just to cruise around the neighborhood. Make it a custom rig eventually. 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Marcusharbinger

[TwiceHorn 32104]

Well, i have been pleased with myself at holding up under the heat, for the most part.  Today, though, was pretty awful.

First, I got a late start, and then a traffic jam on 35 delayed me further.  And, I realized maybe for the first time that although Oak Cliff NP is pretty wooded, it's also bright and hot.  Just enough woods to cut the 20mph wind to nothing.  Yuck.  And the open sections were just a beating.

[Al_4_ISU 12661]

Got finished planting yesterday, so time to spend 90 minutes in the saddle this AM. Surprised myself with some strength for a big climb an hour in. The season is upon me.

[TwiceHorn 32104]

Ok, this is weird and kind of cloaky.

One of the better, for my purposes, skills video people out there is Kyle and April/RideMTB.  https://www.ridemtb.com/ If you haven't seen, Kyle teaches and demos things and then April tries them from a sort of noob angle while Kyle critiques and corrects.  It's different from most of the genre, and helpful, I think, at least for me.

Kyle is a pro rider and April is a former motocross rider, so I am sometimes skeptical of how nooby she really is, but it works for me.

Anyway, Kyle apparently had an adverse reaction to the Pfizer vaccine that gave him some heart issues and "reactive arthritis."  It may have ended his career.  But, he also allowed himself to become associated with anti-vaxxers and has been dealing with a lot of personal fallout in addition to the physical.

Weird story, and sad.

[JSB 677]

This thread has inspired me to get out there. I've got an older diamondback mountain bike that I've really only used to cruise around the neighborhood. Time to go find some trails this weekend. If you've got any good ones around the Frisco/Prosper/McKinney area, let me know. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by JSB

[TwiceHorn 32104]

1 hour ago, JSB said:

This thread has inspired me to get out there. I've got an older diamondback mountain bike that I've really only used to cruise around the neighborhood. Time to go find some trails this weekend. If you've got any good ones around the Frisco/Prosper/McKinney area, let me know. 

Frisco NW Community Park won't challenge an older bike or rider too much in terms of gnar, but you'll want to stick to Ranger and Coyote loops.  You will climb and you will be hot. 

Sister Grove and Erwin Park in northern McKinney/Princeton may be a little gnarlier and pose a bit more of a technical challenge here and there.

Not sure when they'll be dried out, this week's rains were heavier than we've had for a while, and those three aren't particularly fast-drying.

General reference, www.dorba.org.

Edited May 26, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 32104]

So, about a month in, my Deore brakes started squealing/graunching pretty hideously.  I can't correlate it to anything like getting wet and don't think there have been any contamination events, except maybe, maybe soapy water.

So, I inspected the rotors and calipers and they seem to be fine, except perhaps a little more daylight on one side than the other between pads and rotors.  So, I loosened the calipers, applied brakes and tightened.

Also cleaned the rotors with iso and removed and inspected the pads.  Two of the four were pretty uniformly "metalized," but not shiny or discolored.  The other two were less uniformly metalized, but no discolorations, just bare pad and metalized pad.  Rubbed them down with iso as well.  The difference in appearance I attribute to the metalized pads being closer to the rotors, as noted above.

I didn't detect any oil oozing from the pistons/calipers as seems to happen sometimes with Shimano brakes, but the rear caliper and the backs of the rear pads were dirtier than the front, which seems kind of normal?  Or maybe not.

They work fine, as far as I can tell, just noisy. I'm not a big downhiller and we have no downhills, really, but they do what I ask of them.

I probably didn't bed them real thoroughly, although I did make an attempt and avoided lockups and abrupt stops on the trails for the first few rides.

I intend to re-bed them more thoroughly after the above.

Sound like I'm on the right track? Any suggestions?

[Pescado_Rojo 19593]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

So, about a month in, my Deore brakes started squealing/graunching pretty hideously.  I can't correlate it to anything like getting wet and don't think there have been any contamination events, except maybe, maybe soapy water.

So, I inspected the rotors and calipers and they seem to be fine, except perhaps a little more daylight on one side than the other between pads and rotors.  So, I loosened the calipers, applied brakes and tightened.

Also cleaned the rotors with iso and removed and inspected the pads.  Two of the four were pretty uniformly "metalized," but not shiny or discolored.  The other two were less uniformly metalized, but no discolorations, just bare pad and metalized pad.  Rubbed them down with iso as well.  The difference in appearance I attribute to the metalized pads being closer to the rotors, as noted above.

I didn't detect any oil oozing from the pistons/calipers as seems to happen sometimes with Shimano brakes, but the rear caliper and the backs of the rear pads were dirtier than the front, which seems kind of normal?  Or maybe not.

They work fine, as far as I can tell, just noisy. I'm not a big downhiller and we have no downhills, really, but they do what I ask of them.

I probably didn't bed them real thoroughly, although I did make an attempt and avoided lockups and abrupt stops on the trails for the first few rides.

I intend to re-bed them more thoroughly after the above.

Sound like I'm on the right track? Any suggestions?

I'm far from an expert bike mechanic, but it sounds like you're on the right track. 

[midtown 3357]

Almost had a pretty nice little disaster today.   There is a park here in SA called McAllister park.  It's got several very nice shaded easy to medium loops.  Perfect for the wknd warrior or mom types or in my case a nice little hour ride to get in a workout without getting too technical.  Because of that it brings out all kinds and today there were TONS of walkers on the trail.   IMO the walkers are welcome on the traill but unlike the cement; riders have the right of way and most people step off the trail for bikes.   Of course a ton of them wear headphones so you can "heads up" all day and they dont hear shit. Anyway thats not the main issue.

I was dropping into a creek and at the same time and couple with a probably 40 lb dog had just gotten to the bottom on the other side.    The see me coming and they split with one going left and the other right.   The dog goes right with the guy so I assumed he was on a leash.  NOPE!   Right at the last min the dog goes the other direction.  I took a quick jog away from him and missed him by inches.    The woman screams at this point.  "OMG"   At that point I was just happy not to be on the ground with a very injured dog.   I was tempted to give them a "leash your fucking dog you fucking idoits".   

[TwiceHorn 32104]

28 minutes ago, midtown said:

Almost had a pretty nice little disaster today.   There is a park here in SA called McAllister park.  It's got several very nice shaded easy to medium loops.  Perfect for the wknd warrior or mom types or in my case a nice little hour ride to get in a workout without getting too technical.  Because of that it brings out all kinds and today there were TONS of walkers on the trail.   IMO the walkers are welcome on the traill but unlike the cement; riders have the right of way and most people step off the trail for bikes.   Of course a ton of them wear headphones so you can "heads up" all day and they dont hear shit. Anyway thats not the main issue.

I was dropping into a creek and at the same time and couple with a probably 40 lb dog had just gotten to the bottom on the other side.    The see me coming and they split with one going left and the other right.   The dog goes right with the guy so I assumed he was on a leash.  NOPE!   Right at the last min the dog goes the other direction.  I took a quick jog away from him and missed him by inches.    The woman screams at this point.  "OMG"   At that point I was just happy not to be on the ground with a very injured dog.   I was tempted to give them a "leash your fucking dog you fucking idoits".   

For all the shit cyclists get, generally, hikers/walkers can be some of the dopiest mf'ers evar.  Milling around like idiots, no lane discipline, dogs off leash, talking on the damn phone or music up loud  . . . .

[wd40 1976]

5 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

So, about a month in, my Deore brakes started squealing/graunching pretty hideously.  I can't correlate it to anything like getting wet and don't think there have been any contamination events, except maybe, maybe soapy water.

So, I inspected the rotors and calipers and they seem to be fine, except perhaps a little more daylight on one side than the other between pads and rotors.  So, I loosened the calipers, applied brakes and tightened.

Also cleaned the rotors with iso and removed and inspected the pads.  Two of the four were pretty uniformly "metalized," but not shiny or discolored.  The other two were less uniformly metalized, but no discolorations, just bare pad and metalized pad.  Rubbed them down with iso as well.  The difference in appearance I attribute to the metalized pads being closer to the rotors, as noted above.

I didn't detect any oil oozing from the pistons/calipers as seems to happen sometimes with Shimano brakes, but the rear caliper and the backs of the rear pads were dirtier than the front, which seems kind of normal?  Or maybe not.

They work fine, as far as I can tell, just noisy. I'm not a big downhiller and we have no downhills, really, but they do what I ask of them.

I probably didn't bed them real thoroughly, although I did make an attempt and avoided lockups and abrupt stops on the trails for the first few rides.

I intend to re-bed them more thoroughly after the above.

Sound like I'm on the right track? Any suggestions?

agree with rojo.  

IPA is good.  I keep a spray can of brake cleaner around.  just fucking drown 'em ever once in a while when they're acting funny.  this includes removing the pads and giving them a VERY light pump to expose the pistons.  have to be careful not to over-pump the brake when doing this or you'll fuck up the diaphragms and not be able to get them back in.  spray and maybe touch up with qtips to get all the gunk off so they move smoothly.  

I use an old butter knife to press them back in, one at a time.  said knife has some flex to it so is fairly gentle on the piston.  if you have a thin  piece of wood like a paint stick, that could work, assuming you can get it in there.  

however you do it, cleaning the pistons and making sure they actuate evenly is first thing I do.

when examining the pads, make sure you're not seeing the pins that hold the braking material to the backing plate.  best way to tell how much life you have left is compare side-by-side with a new pad.  if your halfway down, it's probably time.  the pins will start to get exposed and will mess up your rotor.

check your rotors for warpage (not sure if you did this, above).  usually, gentle thumb pressure is enough to bend the warp out.  don't worry so much about if it's centered, at this point.  getting it unwarped is most important.

when reinstalling a brake caliper, or just adjusting it after the pistons and rotor are good, just be extremely methodical:  with loose mounting bolts, after a few pumps to make sure it's moving, tight squeeze on the brake lever, tighten the bolts in tiny, alternating increments so they are both even.  if you tighten too fast, you'll torque the caliper out of alignment.  that right there will cause a lot of vibration and squealing.  at least as much as dirty pads.

 

had a pretty crappy ride today.  just uncomfortable and not in control.  fucking up things I never have before.

I did see this, short cutting up to session a feature.  seems like there's a story, here.  circle of life, etc.

[TwiceHorn 32104]

4 hours ago, wd40 said:

agree with rojo.  

IPA is good.  I keep a spray can of brake cleaner around.  just fucking drown 'em ever once in a while when they're acting funny.  this includes removing the pads and giving them a VERY light pump to expose the pistons.  have to be careful not to over-pump the brake when doing this or you'll fuck up the diaphragms and not be able to get them back in.  spray and maybe touch up with qtips to get all the gunk off so they move smoothly.  

I use an old butter knife to press them back in, one at a time.  said knife has some flex to it so is fairly gentle on the piston.  if you have a thin  piece of wood like a paint stick, that could work, assuming you can get it in there.  

however you do it, cleaning the pistons and making sure they actuate evenly is first thing I do.

when examining the pads, make sure you're not seeing the pins that hold the braking material to the backing plate.  best way to tell how much life you have left is compare side-by-side with a new pad.  if your halfway down, it's probably time.  the pins will start to get exposed and will mess up your rotor.

check your rotors for warpage (not sure if you did this, above).  usually, gentle thumb pressure is enough to bend the warp out.  don't worry so much about if it's centered, at this point.  getting it unwarped is most important.

when reinstalling a brake caliper, or just adjusting it after the pistons and rotor are good, just be extremely methodical:  with loose mounting bolts, after a few pumps to make sure it's moving, tight squeeze on the brake lever, tighten the bolts in tiny, alternating increments so they are both even.  if you tighten too fast, you'll torque the caliper out of alignment.  that right there will cause a lot of vibration and squealing.  at least as much as dirty pads.

 

had a pretty crappy ride today.  just uncomfortable and not in control.  fucking up things I never have before.

I did see this, short cutting up to session a feature.  seems like there's a story, here.  circle of life, etc.

Good stuff, thanks.  I did alternate the bolts on the calipers trying to "keep the torque even," but I may not have been as ginger as you indicate is probably called for.  Good advice.

I did "eyeball" the rotors, but didn't do anything like a truing stand and they looked ok to me.

Also, I did not squeeze the brakes with the pads removed out of fear of pushing the pistons out too far, but thought about sticking a plastic knife in there and letting them clamp on that, but was skeered to do so.  Do you think a plastic knife, or its handle is wide enough to keep the pistons in check?

My suspicion was that the "uneven" pad contact, evidenced by "half" the pad pair being nicely metaliicized and the other half not so much, might be my cause, but I very well may have made it a bit worse by torque misaligning the calipers.  I'll redo that more carefully before I do anything else.

I'm going to hold the piston cleaning as kind of a last resort.  I did clean out the slot in the caliper and the piston faces, but not all around the circumference of the pistons.  I'm on my third or maybe fourth "pad removal" operation and find it rather fiddly, although the Deore pads go in from top or bottom, whereas my old brakes went in only from the bottom, so that makes it less so.

Edited May 31, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[wd40 1976]

one reason the piston cleaning is #1 is because if they're not clean and moving freely, they're probably not moving uniformly, so you may have one pad extending more than the other and doing all the work, and wearing faster.  obviously, caliper alignment can cause this result as well.  but you're smart to be nervous about over-extending the pistons.  so again, liberal application of brake cleaner spray can get in there and flush out dirt and buildup without that risk; if not the warm fuzzy of eyeballing your shiny clean pistons.

as far as truing the rotor, it doesn't have to be any more complicated in than just spinning the wheel at a speed where you can detect any wobble in the rotor between the insides of the caliper, and/or actual intermittent rubbing on one pad or the other.

as far as a plastic knife being thick enough:  stack your pads together.  that's the minimum thickness your plastic cutlery needs to be to keep from vomiting a piston if you just start mashing the brake lever with the pads out.

it's like anything:  takes a little practice to get decent at it.  but it's not rocket surgery.

[wd40 1976]

some pics from last sunday.  much better day.  found some trail I hadn't seen before in an area I've been riding for 20 years.

 

Spoiler

it's not the vertical distance that I hate about this one.  it's the janky approach.

 

 

Edited May 31, 2022 by wd40

[TwiceHorn 32104]

6 minutes ago, wd40 said:

some picks from last sunday.  much better day.  found some trail I hadn't seen before in an area I've been riding for 20 years.

 

  Hide contents

it's not the vertical distance that I hate about this one.  it's the janky approach.

 

 

My brakes would sound like the horns of Jericho on that.  Gzus.

Janky approaches and startups give me the willies.  My balance is pretty alright, but I don't really trust it until I get moving some and get some precession going and get my position right.  Also, the janky slow steering on my old bike gave me some fear that I am starting to overcome.

Edited May 31, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 32104]

Are most brake cleaners paint safe?  Just the cheap auto stuff or something bike-specific?

Also, redid the caliper alignment per WD40's suggestion, being real careful with the torquing and got nice equal daylight on each side of the rotor.  I hadn't really looked before, but at any rate it seems to have accomplished that part.

And the pads seem to close on the rotor with equal "speed," so I am guessing the pistons are ok.

Edited May 31, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[wd40 1976]

automotive brake cleaners are fine.  it's what I use.  current have a can of Blaster brand, but have used Gum-Out.

what isn't paint-safe is the mineral oil Shimano uses in their brakes.   bleeding Shimano brakes is super-easy.  just have to buy their bleed 'kit' which consists of a cup with a removable plug that you thread into the reservoir at the brake lever.  have to be very careful to minimize and immediately clean up any spillage.

[TwiceHorn 32104]

11 minutes ago, wd40 said:

automotive brake cleaners are fine.  it's what I use.  current have a can of Blaster brand, but have used Gum-Out.

what isn't paint-safe is the mineral oil Shimano uses in their brakes.   bleeding Shimano brakes is super-easy.  just have to buy their bleed 'kit' which consists of a cup with a removable plug that you thread into the reservoir at the brake lever.  have to be very careful to minimize and immediately clean up any spillage.

👍Great success!👍 Brakes are silent again.

I think mostly due to the caliper realignment.  After following wd's admonition to be really incremental, I got the best alignment I think I have ever seen in terms of even gaps between pads and rotors.

Thanks, wd40!

Edited May 31, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 32104]

Well crap.  Yesterday, I bedded them and rode Harry Moss, which is pretty flat, and the brakes were silent.

Rode OCNP today, which has some more descents and GRAAAUNCH.  I'm not sure how much I care if it doesn't indicate that something is wrong and impending failure.  But geez.

[TwiceHorn 32104]

Hahaha.  Goddammit.

So, i pulled the rear pads again to take a look, especially for oil from the pistons/calipers and sure enough there were little rings on the back of the pads.  I also tried extending them with the plastic knife handle between the pistons as it is almost, but not quite as thick as the pads together.  And now I can't get them to go back in with the amount of force I am comfortable applying, with the fairly flexible plastic knife.

They aren't out very far, but I guess it doesn't take much.

So it appears I completely fucked the caliper.  Which is probably ok, because I think it was leaking.

Good thing it rained like hell, because I'm going to be off the mtb for a while.

I don't think I'll be fucking with my brakes anytime soon except maybe pad changes.

Also, that little thing on SRAM derailleurs that de-tensions the chain is handy as a pocket on a shirt.  I can't even get the motherfucking thru-axle back in.  Fuck.

Edited June 2, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[KuЯdt 248]

4 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Hahaha.  Goddammit.

So, i pulled the rear pads again to take a look, especially for oil from the pistons/calipers and sure enough there were little rings on the back of the pads.  I also tried extending them with the plastic knife handle between the pistons as it is almost, but not quite as thick as the pads together.  And now I can't get them to go back in with the amount of force I am comfortable applying, with the fairly flexible plastic knife.

They aren't out very far, but I guess it doesn't take much.

So it appears I completely fucked the caliper.  Which is probably ok, because I think it was leaking.

Good thing it rained like hell, because I'm going to be off the mtb for a while.

I don't think I'll be fucking with my brakes anytime soon except maybe pad changes.

Also, that little thing on SRAM derailleurs that de-tensions the chain is handy as a pocket on a shirt.  I can't even get the motherfucking thru-axle back in.  Fuck.

If you got the pistons out some, best to open up the system via the bleed kit cup wd mentioned above then you can get them back in easily.  You need one anyway as a lever bleed is super quick and easy with it, and most of the time it's all you need to do.  Link to kit

Also you need the shimano mineral oil  

As for the derailleur, did you disengage the clutch?

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by KuЯdt

[TwiceHorn 32104]

1 hour ago, KuЯdt said:

If you got the pistons out some, best to open up the system via the bleed kit cup wd mentioned above then you can get them back in easily.  You need one anyway as a lever bleed is super quick and easy with it, and most of the time it's all you need to do.  Link to kit

Also you need the shimano mineral oil  

As for the derailleur, did you disengage the clutch?

 

Well, I was due for a 90-day "review" at LBS, so I took it in and quit fucking with it.  I called first and they said they might need to have me make an appointment for Tuesday, but managed to fix it all up in a half hour or so.

He said, and I detected this, that my rotors weren't glazed per se, but hadn't had the factory shine worn off much.  He said the pads were ok and caliper not leaking despite the rings of stuff on their backside after two rides.  So, in addition to pushing the pistons back in, by whatever means, he sanded the rotors a little and recommended more bedding and casual riding.  I think I may smear some mud on there next time I ride.

Yes, I disengaged the clutch, but apparently without the pads on the rotors, fighting with the remaining chain tension to get the axle lined up was too much.

My head was full of fuck after the piston stunt.

Edited June 2, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[wd40 1976]

interesting.  I've never opened up the system to press the pistons back to zero for pad reinstall.  just use the butter knife pushed all the way through the caliper so I can put even pressure across the face of the piston.  just googled it and it looks like this is how at least a few youtubers also do it.  probably means it's wrong.

as far as the der clutch, I've never used it.  I just put the drive train in a high gear (small cog) and that's been good enough.  I mean, remember the days before clutch ders?  how did we survive?

speaking of ders, the last piece of the puzzle just arrived today:  a 12sp chain, ordered shipped (free) to Sun&Ski on Anderson from their Tulsa store.  no one local had one in stock (even pure online shops seemed to be out), and SnS surprisingly had the best price.  

the hidden price was having to wait for Fedex to rout it from Tulsa to California, to Cypress, to Pflugerville, back to Cypress, then back to Pflugerville with no deliver date estimate.  So I was surprised to get an email from the store this afternoon that it was ready for pickup.  the OEM packaging had definitely done some traveling.  hopefully, the chain itself isn't bent.

can't wait to climb without dying, in this blast furnace.

[TwiceHorn 32104]

So, apparently it takes quite a bit of force to push the pistons back in?

They were only sticking out a couple of millimeters, or pretty close to the travel I would expect at maximum braking force.  I don't know what I expected, but it seemed like if they were going to be fucked, either popping the diaphragm or pushing past the seals, they'd be sticking out more than that.  I was also surprised at how floppy the lever was; I didn't go all the way, but I didn't know how much was too much.

Did you get a 12-spd derailleur and cassette then?  Hopefully, you find a magical gear like I did.  Or maybe you actually make good use of the 50, 51 or 52 tooth.

[KuЯdt 248]

yeah parts are still hard to come by.  I mangled both a derailleur and a rotor in Bentonville about a month ago.  The only 12sp derailleur in town and at all of Phat Tire's shops in the region was an XTR for $270.  Nope.  Online all I could find were a couple Deore's and a single SLX.  So I got the SLX and also got the SLX shifter since my XT one had been having issues. I actually like the SLX shifter better.

[TwiceHorn 32104]

So, does anyone have any better bedding strategies than what I have apparently been doing?

This week, after cleaning rotors and pads, I did 10 slowdowns, but on level ground, probably not all that fast, using each brake.  That seemed to be successful, until I got on a descent.

Maybe find a hill, get up a little more speed?  More repetitions?

[wd40 1976]

what I usually do is 'power brake' in the driveway (I have a long one).  stand-up pedaling with moderate braking force.  works best with the old Six Million-Dollar Man theme in your head, but Chariots of Fire is fine.

an old trick was to run water from a hose over your rotors when you're doing this.  I don't understand the physics behind it, but it seemed to help.  we still occasionally squirt camelbak water on our rotors  if they're making noise with fresh pads, on the trail.

[TwiceHorn 32104]

4 hours ago, wd40 said:

what I usually do is 'power brake' in the driveway (I have a long one).  stand-up pedaling with moderate braking force.  works best with the old Six Million-Dollar Man theme in your head, but Chariots of Fire is fine.

an old trick was to run water from a hose over your rotors when you're doing this.  I don't understand the physics behind it, but it seemed to help.  we still occasionally squirt camelbak water on our rotors  if they're making noise with fresh pads, on the trail.

Yeah, I alternately see that you're supposed to get them heated up, but not too heated up.

I was focused mostly on reps, but I suppose varying some between hard and soft applications makes a difference, too.  I didn't intend to, but it would be just so "me," to have done 10 reps on each brake with each rep being almost exactly the same in terms of speed and braking force.  Consistency is the hobgoblin and all that.

[sasquatch69 626]

Haven’t posted here much lately because life has intervened in my MTB riding, but I did make it to Bentonville for a long Memorial Day weekend, and I can’t recommend it enough. Even my out-of-shape ass had a blast trying out several different trails, and I can’t wait to go back.  The town is just wired for cyclists, both of the MTB and paved-trail variety. My riding buddy and I did 22 miles in 2.5 days and we barely scratched the surface.   
 

first day was the Little Sugar trails up where we stayed in Bella Vista.

 

Day 2 was on the in-town Slaughter Pen trail network. 

On the final morning, we did several loops in the Blowing Springs trail network back up in Bella Vista. These were my favorite, and there’s a really great campground there as well (with cabins and a beer garden).

[Al_4_ISU 12661]

That looks great.  I hope to get down there next spring if things have calmed down some with gas prices and what not.

[TwiceHorn 32104]

So, today at lunch I did a "remedial" ride at Katie Jackson.  For one thing, it's open.  For another, to get to the trailhead, you ride a sidewalk that goes around the park/playground and then descends at a decent rate down to the trailhead.

For better or worse, it seems appropriate to bed brakes on a sidewalk, so I figured I'd use the downhill sidewalk to generate some more speed and braking resistance.  So I did 10 plus hard and easy slowdowns using rear brake and it was quiet but for the hiss of the rear brake application.  The rear brake is plenty strong, whatever else is wrong with it, easy as ever to lock up the back wheel.

Then, on the trail, I tried to avoid any use of brakes in turning or anything else where I might tend to drag/feather them.  Did a few hardish slowdowns on straight parts of the trail.  And poured water on the brakes, which provoked actual high-pitched squealing, as opposed to the low-pitch grauuuunch I get from the rear on descents.  And I smeared mud on the rear rotor.  Except for the wet-brake screech, no abnormal noises or graunching. 

The other remedial thing I did was "session" the little Mongo trail.  It starts with a 2-foot drop that I'm just not ready for, I don't think.  Has some banked turns and rollable/jumpable rollers.  It's also mildly down hill, so you can build some speed and pump and stuff.  So, I dropped my saddle and rolled down it multiple times, just to force myself to get used to the bike moving under me more than I currently practice.  I also used the one "no-feature" straight to try to do some more hardish slowdowns and avoided touching brakes otherwise.  

All-in-all, a pretty good little workout and it was pretty fucking hot (88 feels like 91 plus).  Having to be "brake conscious" though, took some of the fun out of it.  But I do think I kind of over-rely on light brake touches in the twisties, and that may be what's causing my brake problem.  Never had any problems with the lower-end Shimanos on the Marin, though.  

I intend to continue to do "brake bedding" things on my next few rides, like this, to hopefully solve the problem.

[sasquatch69 626]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

So, today at lunch I did a "remedial" ride at Katie Jackson.  For one thing, it's open.  For another, to get to the trailhead, you ride a sidewalk that goes around the park/playground and then descends at a decent rate down to the trailhead.

For better or worse, it seems appropriate to bed brakes on a sidewalk, so I figured I'd use the downhill sidewalk to generate some more speed and braking resistance.  So I did 10 plus hard and easy slowdowns using rear brake and it was quiet but for the hiss of the rear brake application.  The rear brake is plenty strong, whatever else is wrong with it, easy as ever to lock up the back wheel.

Then, on the trail, I tried to avoid any use of brakes in turning or anything else where I might tend to drag/feather them.  Did a few hardish slowdowns on straight parts of the trail.  And poured water on the brakes, which provoked actual high-pitched squealing, as opposed to the low-pitch grauuuunch I get from the rear on descents.  And I smeared mud on the rear rotor.  Except for the wet-brake screech, no abnormal noises or graunching. 

The other remedial thing I did was "session" the little Mongo trail.  It starts with a 2-foot drop that I'm just not ready for, I don't think.  Has some banked turns and rollable/jumpable rollers.  It's also mildly down hill, so you can build some speed and pump and stuff.  So, I dropped my saddle and rolled down it multiple times, just to force myself to get used to the bike moving under me more than I currently practice.  I also used the one "no-feature" straight to try to do some more hardish slowdowns and avoided touching brakes otherwise.  

All-in-all, a pretty good little workout and it was pretty fucking hot (88 feels like 91 plus).  Having to be "brake conscious" though, took some of the fun out of it.  But I do think I kind of over-rely on light brake touches in the twisties, and that may be what's causing my brake problem.  Never had any problems with the lower-end Shimanos on the Marin, though.  

I intend to continue to do "brake bedding" things on my next few rides, like this, to hopefully solve the problem.

Seems like a good way to test it.  And I haven't mustered up courage to do the new Mongo drop either - I always hang my head in shame as I ride around it.  

[TwiceHorn 32104]

2 minutes ago, sasquatch69 said:

Seems like a good way to test it.  And I haven't mustered up courage to do the new Mongo drop either - I always hang my head in shame as I ride around it.  

I have, at one time or another, done smaller drops, repeatedly and without crashing, but it's never felt "right" for bigger things.  So I have never attempted the bigger ones.

[idigTexas 2332]

Sorry to those who have already seen this, but in an effort to get the most eyes, I'm cross posting here as well.

 

[TwiceHorn 32104]

Gah.  Is the price of gas giving any of yall qualms about driving to somewhat faraway trails?  It's not going to break me, but it feels kind of frivolous to drive 40 or 50 miles round trip to go to a trail, and that's not even the really far away ones.  

I'm trying to get in a ride today, but closest Harry Moss is still closed.  Some of the souf Dallas trails are actually reasonably close (20 mi round trip), but have descents that I want to avoid until I get my brakes more squared away.  River Legacy is open and is a good place to continue brake bedding, but it's a 40+ round trip.  Not to mention all the travel time.

Maybe I should just ride the singlespeed on the street.

[TwiceHorn 32104]

So, yesterday rode River Legacy and set a personal speed record.  Didn't get there til noon and it was already in the 90s.  I survived, rode kinda hard, but it was pretty nasty with elevated humidity even at that time and temp.  I also only rode for 40 minutes.

I rested for a bit, paused my ride tracker, and then was intending to do another couple of miles.  When I went to unpause the ride tracker, I "finished" the ride instead.  That small thing was enough to make me quit for the day.  I wasn't tired, per se, just sort of uninterested in going anymore.  This has been kind of a common theme lately:  I'll usually ride a whole trail and just have no interest in going again.  And, because I'm faster, it's taking less than an hour.  In the past, I have been satisfied riding for an hour, even if it wasn't fast or far.  Now I'm doing the same distances, but taking quite a bit less time.

I also discovered that my front brake hose, which seems to be about two inches longer than necessary, has been rubbing the headtube and has rubbed it bare of paint at the bottom edge and fretted the paint above that.  KInd of like the first big scratch, but so, so unnecessary.  Pissed me off.

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by TwiceHorn