The Surly Mountain Biking Thread

[TwiceHorn 31699]

15 hours ago, G650 said:

I was completely desensitized to lidocaine at one point. Had to get sewn up once completely unnumbed

Yeesh.  What causes that?

[G650 14302]

28 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeesh.  What causes that?

I had every one of my baby teeth pulled except 3. They just wouldn't come out on their own. So I had been shot up so many times that when I busted my forehead open when I was 19 I was basically completely tolerant of lidocaine. 

I probably am not anymore though.

 

Creepy ass feeling though when the needle and thread pass through. Not so much painful as weird. Can feel how rubbery you skin is. Had a pretty great injury too, took an elbow to the forehead just over my eye. Blood errrywhere. I said I was good, and everyone was like, ' man, you better look in the mirror '. I could see like an inch and a half of skull over my right eye!

[Loco 3754]

Pain is the most centering thing in the universe... It only exists in the moment and then is gone.  Yes you can remember the pain, but you can't experience it again. (same with pleasure)

When something is going to hurt, I just consider that the pain will exist and then it will be gone.  Yeah you can fear it and worry about it or just move forward and get to the other side.

This lesson was taught to me in exquisite detail by modern medicine...  Good times!

[TwiceHorn 31699]

If I don't mind, it don't matter.

[TwiceHorn 31699]

On 2/27/2019 at 8:11 PM, TwiceHorn said:

Related question.  Tires were tubeless, Stans sealant.  Front was flat from 12/4.  Rear went flat several weeks later.  I suppose I should add a couple of ounces of sealant?  Do I need to clean out the old?

 

On 2/27/2019 at 10:27 PM, Pescado_Rojo said:

Yes and yes

On this, looks like really cleaning out sealant is a pretty big PITA.  Should I just clean the rims and the bead and try to get the big "chunks" out?

[Pescado_Rojo 19454]

That should be good, just don't mix different kinds of sealant. (Don't mix Stan's with the orange stuff, it turns into curdled milk looking stuff) 

[TwiceHorn 31699]

Thank you, sir.

[Braff Zacklin 13672]

On 3/2/2019 at 8:36 AM, Loco said:

When something is going to hurt, I just consider that the pain will exist and then it will be gone.

[Braff Zacklin 13672]

On 3/4/2019 at 7:42 AM, TwiceHorn said:

On this, looks like really cleaning out sealant is a pretty big PITA.  Should I just clean the rims and the bead and try to get the big "chunks" out?

What Pescado said. Just remove the major stuff, like the strip around the bead and any "Stan's boogers," if applicable.

Everyone's experience is different, but once my current bottle of Orange is empty, I will not be reusing it as it was unable to seal even small punctures. Several seasons with Stan's and not one failure of that sort, yet it happened twice in two years with Orange.

[Al_4_ISU 12542]

Think spring. Think spring.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[William_Cannon 86]

Regarding tubeless brew, I make my own. It’s worked better than others products I’ve used and it’s a hella cheap. There is a thread on Mtbr that has the recipe and description of the ingredients’ function. I have yet to find anything better than the original “WSS - Wadsters secret sauce” except for maybe subbing ATV slime for regular slime.

https://forums.mtbr.com/29er-components/best-tubeless-brew-406115.html

[Braff Zacklin 13672]

1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Think spring. Think spring.....

Indeed, my friend.

I am currently suffering the indignity of riding my mountain bikes on pavement while the lower trails dry (upper trails still covered in snow and ice), and even that has been a challenge. Two days ago, it hailed before my ride. Yesterday, it snowed non-stop until about 4. Still got in a ride, but now I feel as if I'm being split in half thanks to a winter of extreme indolence.

One pedal at a time ...

Edited March 9, 2019 by Braff Zacklin

[KuЯdt 248]

Got out for a good ride today.  The weather was a bit weird because when I left it was cloudy and pretty dark and everything was still damp from whatever light rain we got last night.  The limestone was super slick and I had a couple of close calls.  Midway through the ride the sun came out and it got pretty warm.  Almost felt like a summertime ride. 

I also found a few new downhill runs at Meridian Bowl that I had not seen before (for you SATN riders).

[Loco 3754]

On 3/9/2019 at 12:58 PM, Al_4_ISU said:

Think spring. Think spring.....


 

[Al_4_ISU 12542]

^^^^^^

That'll do.

Looking at the forecast, I think the snow riding season is done.  I'm ok with that.  A lot of fat bike enthusiasts live for it, but I've found snow rides to be just more of a struggle than anything.  Good for you, no doubt, but I'm ready for dirt.  Of course it will be at least a month of thawing before we can hit those trails right either.

[Braff Zacklin 13672]

Yeah, something just sprung all right ...

[Loco 3754]

also this...

[Braff Zacklin 13672]

Unlike most bike models, she's got the thighs of a lady who actually spends some time in the saddle.

[Braff Zacklin 13672]

WD, where art thee?

I'm so fucking tired of pavement. Some of our lower trails might be ready to ride by Monday, but until then, it's more miles on asphalt.

So it would be much appreciated if WD, Twice, Al, or some other kind soul would take the trouble and post a video of some trail. Put my mind right. I'm so fucking tired of pavement.

WD, where art thee?

[TwiceHorn 31699]

Here is a little non-thrilling video of a fairly representative trail in DFW, which also happens to be closest to me, so gets ridden frequently, when I'm not broken:

This is right across the street from Royal Oaks CC, off Greenville.  It's kind of cool that there are a few trails right spang in the middle of the suburban hellscape that is most of Dallas.  This is also not far from where former Texas commit, later Aggy, and schizophrenic Thomas Johnson took a machete to a roadie on a paved trail.

There are some gnarlier trails in South Dallas, among the hills, cedars, and limestone, that probably more resemble the Centex experience.  The northern trails, around Lake Grapevine, are kind of a hybrid.

[TwiceHorn 31699]

On 3/15/2019 at 11:24 PM, Braff Zacklin said:

WD, where art thee?

I'm so fucking tired of pavement. Some of our lower trails might be ready to ride by Monday, but until then, it's more miles on asphalt.

So it would be much appreciated if WD, Twice, Al, or some other kind soul would take the trouble and post a video of some trail. Put my mind right. I'm so fucking tired of pavement.

WD, where art thee?

Do you ride your MTB on the pavement?  If so, do you switch out wheels/tires?  My hardtail had sort of cross country tires that were far less aggressive than what's on the Marin and it kind of pains me to ride them on the road.  I really don't want to get on the road/gravel bike merry-go-round.  My compromise before the injury was to ride the gravel roads in the Trinity bottom, but it's almost as boring as road riding, but at least there's no traffic.

[Braff Zacklin 13672]

4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Do you ride your MTB on the pavement?  If so, do you switch out wheels/tires?  My hardtail had sort of cross country tires that were far less aggressive than what's on the Marin and it kind of pains me to ride them on the road.  I really don't want to get on the road/gravel bike merry-go-round.  My compromise before the injury was to ride the gravel roads in the Trinity bottom, but it's almost as boring as road riding, but at least there's no traffic.

Nice vid, man. Single track always makes me happy; single track in trees even more so.

I used to swap out wheels/tires on the hardtail I had 11 (holy shit!) years ago, a Raleigh Mojave 8.0, which was my first "real" mountain bike, but I don't bother now.

Pedaling my 140mm squishy sucks because the back tire is a 2.35" Nobby Nic. Switching over to a 2.25" Mezcal like the one that is on my hardtail would make a huge difference, but I am lazy and those Mezcals are a bitch to mount.

I'm sure I'll just bite the bullet one of these days and get a basic road/touring bike.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Nice vid, man. Single track always makes me happy; single track in trees even more so.

Until you have a big ass spider web hit you in the face.

[Braff Zacklin 13672]

Technically, since the spider web was stationary, it'd be more accurate to say you hit it with your face.

[TwiceHorn 31699]

3 hours ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Nice vid, man. Single track always makes me happy; single track in trees even more so.

I used to swap out wheels/tires on the hardtail I had 11 (holy shit!) years ago, a Raleigh Mojave 8.0, which was my first "real" mountain bike, but I don't bother now.

Pedaling my 140mm squishy sucks because the back tire is a 2.35" Nobby Nic. Switching over to a 2.25" Mezcal like the one that is on my hardtail would make a huge difference, but I am lazy and those Mezcals are a bitch to mount.

I'm sure I'll just bite the bullet one of these days and get a basic road/touring bike.

Then there's the issue of "pedal bob" or related bounce in the rear suspension.  I think my bike pedals pretty well, but there's no lockout on the rear shock.  It's definitely better than full squish from a few years back, but I don't know how it compares to more expensive bikes.

[Braff Zacklin 13672]

My rear shock has a lockout. Between that and tinkering with the PSI for that "just right" amount of stiffness, I experience little to no pedal bob when climbing smoothly. If only I could always remember to "open it up" before a big descent! 

[TwiceHorn 31699]

9 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

My rear shock has a lockout. Between that and tinkering with the PSI for that "just right" amount of stiffness, I experience little to no pedal bob when climbing smoothly. If only I could always remember to "open it up" before a big descent! 

Yeah, I'd do the same on my fork from time to time.  Now, though, it's my dropper.  If I had remembered to drop it, I might well have avoided my big crash. 

 

Speaking of PSI, do you go by sag or the shockcraft "feel" method?

Edited March 20, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Braff Zacklin 13672]

22 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah, I'd do the same on my fork from time to time.  Now, though, it's my dropper.  If I had remembered to drop it, I might well have avoided my big crash. 

Speaking of PSI, do you go by sag or the shockcraft "feel" method?

I shoot for between 25 percent sag front and back because I am an XC weenie. (Think ~30 percent is the norm.) Am unfamiliar with the shockcraft feel method.

For shock rebound, I use the curb test method. For fork rebound, I compress and release and adjust until it springs back quickly without lifting the tire off the pavement.

Droppers are wonderful, aren't they? I probably adjust my dropper on a trail ride more often than I shift.

[TwiceHorn 31699]

32 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

I shoot for between 25 percent sag front and back because I am an XC weenie. (Think ~30 percent is the norm.) Am unfamiliar with the shockcraft feel method.

For shock rebound, I use the curb test method. For fork rebound, I compress and release and adjust until it springs back quickly without lifting the tire off the pavement.

Droppers are wonderful, aren't they? I probably adjust my dropper on a trail ride more often than I shift.

On mtbr, the mavens have started to poop on anything sag related in favor of this https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/news/suspension-setup-guide/

That guide kind of assumes that the rider knows what his suspension should feel like.

I'm still getting used to my dropper.  As evidenced by the video above, I spend the vast majority of time on pretty flat ground, so it's use gets "sporadic." and I just flat forget.

[Braff Zacklin 13672]

Interesting. Any suspension setup should be to feel, so I'm not sure there'd be an advantage to either when done properly. But maybe I'm missing a core concept?

Personally, I find that tire pressure is just as important than suspension setup, if not more so. People always want a simple recommendation for tire PSI, but the most accurate way to dial it in is to get out and ride. Weights, styles, and terrain vary so much that there isn't one pressure that will work for all.

For example, when I rode a hardtail with skinny, low-volume tires and tubes, I had to keep my PSI in the 40s, front and back, to avoid pinching in rock gardens. It was brutally uncomfortable but the only way I could keep from flatting.

But then I switched to wider tires with larger-volume casings and my pressures dropped into the mid- to upper-20s. (Tubeless helped a little but not nearly as much as some claim.)

I don't like riding lower than that, however, because I get too much sidewall flex if I'm really railing a turn. Once I feel that, I will back off and air up ASAP. Another good way to tell is to check your sidewalls when you get home--if you see criss-cross Xs in them thru the dust, then they are flexing under load and could use more air.

That's what works for me, but YMMV.

[TwiceHorn 31699]

3 hours ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Interesting. Any suspension setup should be to feel, so I'm not sure there'd be an advantage to either when done properly. But maybe I'm missing a core concept?

Personally, I find that tire pressure is just as important than suspension setup, if not more so. People always want a simple recommendation for tire PSI, but the most accurate way to dial it in is to get out and ride. Weights, styles, and terrain vary so much that there isn't one pressure that will work for all.

For example, when I rode a hardtail with skinny, low-volume tires and tubes, I had to keep my PSI in the 40s, front and back, to avoid pinching in rock gardens. It was brutally uncomfortable but the only way I could keep from flatting.

But then I switched to wider tires with larger-volume casings and my pressures dropped into the mid- to upper-20s. (Tubeless helped a little but not nearly as much as some claim.)

I don't like riding lower than that, however, because I get too much sidewall flex if I'm really railing a turn. Once I feel that, I will back off and air up ASAP. Another good way to tell is to check your sidewalls when you get home--if you see criss-cross Xs in them thru the dust, then they are flexing under load and could use more air.

That's what works for me, but YMMV.

Part of it is that the shockcraft guy kind of assumes all dampers are crap and barely functional, which may not be far from the truth if you dont have $2k in your suspension alone. Good point on the tire pressure.

Edited March 21, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Braff Zacklin 13672]

He's probably right. Don't know enough, either way, soI'm not sure I'd be able to tell the difference between perfect and "good enough."

I can absolutely discern when my tires aren't right, however. Squishy sidewalls are the worst, and overinflated aren't much better.

[CooterBrown 18099]

For me, 35 lbs works well. 2.3 Highroller IIs front and back. I’ve rolled several tires off the rim while cornering when rolling in the 20s due to too much sidewall flex. Could’ve been the Wierwolf tires at time, but the higher pressure has worked well for me.

[TwiceHorn 31699]

Do yall use a "high precision" air gauge of some description or just what's on your tire pump?  I have a floor pump with gauge and CO2 for flats.  I don't screw with pressure on the trail at all.

I've run sub 30 since I started five years ago, with tubes and low volume tires included.  Since I went tubeless with these 2.35, I run right around 22, feeling freer to do so sans tubes.  Never had a pinch flat.  But a big part of that I guess is the difference in Centex and Nortex trails.  I'm mostly striving to get traction in loose over hardpack, so there's not much opportunity for sidewall flex.  Hero dirt is fairly rare around here.

Edited March 24, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31699]

So, finally getting around to taking tires off.  Already difficult to get off tires/rims are rendered an unholy sticky fucking mess by sealant.  Maybe it's not dry enough to do this.

Geezus godalmighty.

I'm not real impressed with tubeless so far. 

[CooterBrown 18099]

Are you running ghetto tubeless or do you have actual tubeless rims? With the former, it sucked. With the latter for the past 6 years, I’ve had zero flats.

[TwiceHorn 31699]

I havent had huge problems with flats is why I am able to say that.  I did have an annoying string of flats when tubed once, but there was a thornthing stuck in my tire that I only found after the third or fourth flat rubbing my hand inside the tire (I checked every time, but only found it after the third or fourth try, it was like a sharp, but not too stiff cactus spine or something that you had to rub just right to feel).

They are tubeless rims and tubeless ready tires although apparently not the most friendly (compressor needed) tires.

It seems like as long as you can set it up, then run em til they're worn out and toss em, mount new tires add sealant, everything's cool.  But if you need to change tires or clean em out or anything like that it's a friggin mess.

The beads are stuck/sticky to the rim, they seem to kind of stick to the tape, it's hard to get the bead in the lowest part of the rim to get it off, levers are gooey, I'm afraid I'm going to fuck up my tape, etc. etc.

Edited March 26, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31699]

Well, turns out part of the problem is theres an ounce and a half of liquid sealant still in the fucking things.

[KuЯdt 248]

Yeah, sounds like you jumped the gun a bit.  Maybe take the wheel off and shake it back and forth first to see if you can hear sealant sloshing around in there.

Normally I'll top my tires off a couple times through the valve before breaking the seal to clean out the Stan's gunk.  And by the time I do that, it is drier than grandma's cooch . 

Last couple times I've done that there hasn't actually been much to clean out.  When I first started with Stan's, it seemed like there would always be a spiky ball of that crap in there.  Maybe they have improved the formula since.  Either way, tubeless is probably the best upgrade I have ever done to my bike.

Edited March 26, 2019 by KuЯdt

[Braff Zacklin 13672]

Hey, Twice. Are you mounting new tires? Or just pulling the old ones off for some "spring cleaning?"

[TwiceHorn 31699]

Front tire was flat as of crash in December.  Rear tire went flat some weeks later.  Pescado advised that I should clean them out and reseal before airing up. 

I'm just now in condition between shoulder and finger to mess with it.

I did see one big stans booger in there and the beads are grubby.

I don't know if I really needed to clean them out or not, but theres a goodly amount of liquid sealant still in them and it's a mess.

Pretty sure I'm just going to start over.  Maybe new tires too.

Edited March 26, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Braff Zacklin 13672]

Gotcha.

The dried latex (aka Stan's boogers) really don't weigh that much, so you could leave the tires as is without too much penalty. However, if you've already broken the bead, I suppose you might as well pull them off and clean them up.

Mounting/un-mounting a TLR tire shouldn't be much different (or much more difficult) than a standard tubed one, except the bead might be a little tighter and/or beefier. And the sealant cleans up easily enough (I've worked with Green Slime, Stan's, and Orange Seal). Just pour any excess sealant into the trash, strip the old sealant from around the bead, rip those boogers out, and you should be good to go.

Some tire/rim combinations can be extremely difficult, while others are a snap. My general rule of thumb is, the easier it is to get the tire on the rim, the more difficult it will be to seal up.

For example, I was able to mount the 2.4" Conti Mountain King II ProTection to the front wheel of my hardtail without tire levers, but I had to use a friend's air compressor to seat the bead.

Conversely, the rear tire (Vittoria Mezcal III TNT G+) mounted to the rear wheel was an unholy pain in the ass. Once I got it on the rim, though, it seated with a hand pump. That thing definitely isn't coming off until it's time to throw away ... but it holds air like a champ. LoL

[TwiceHorn 31699]

1 hour ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Gotcha.

The dried latex (aka Stan's boogers) really don't weigh that much, so you could leave the tires as is without too much penalty. However, if you've already broken the bead, I suppose you might as well pull them off and clean them up.

Mounting/un-mounting a TLR tire shouldn't be much different (or much more difficult) than a standard tubed one, except the bead might be a little tighter and/or beefier. And the sealant cleans up easily enough (I've worked with Green Slime, Stan's, and Orange Seal). Just pour any excess sealant into the trash, strip the old sealant from around the bead, rip those boogers out, and you should be good to go.

Some tire/rim combinations can be extremely difficult, while others are a snap. My general rule of thumb is, the easier it is to get the tire on the rim, the more difficult it will be to seal up.

For example, I was able to mount the 2.4" Conti Mountain King II ProTection to the front wheel of my hardtail without tire levers, but I had to use a friend's air compressor to seat the bead.

Conversely, the rear tire (Vittoria Mezcal III TNT G+) mounted to the rear wheel was an unholy pain in the ass. Once I got it on the rim, though, it seated with a hand pump. That thing definitely isn't coming off until it's time to throw away ... but it holds air like a champ. LoL

Thanks.  The front one is a lot worse than the back one because the bead broke on the 1.5 mile walkout after the wreck.  The bead seal is mostly intact on the rear one.  I'm going to air it up and see if it holds and if it does, leave it alone.  I'm going to have to muck around with the front one and clean it off/up to some degree.  At some points, the bead actually appears to be stuck to the edge of the tape, so actually removing the tire is probably going to tear up the tape.

This combo is the worst of both worlds.  The bead seems small enough in diameter and stiff enough that it's a bear to get on'off without tools and I pride myslef on ability to mount/dismount tires without tools.   I guess because of the goo on the bead it was extra hard to get just half of it off today.  And I can't get it to seat with a pump, or CO2, and don't have a presta fitting for my air compressor.

[Braff Zacklin 13672]

I've several Presta-to-Schrader adapters. Would cheerfully give you one if I weren't thousands of miles away.

They look like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Presta-Schrader-Converter-Bicycle-Adapter/dp/B06VTKPVGR/

 

[TwiceHorn 31699]

12 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

I've several Presta-to-Schrader adapters. Would cheerfully give you one if I weren't thousands of miles away.

They look like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Presta-Schrader-Converter-Bicycle-Adapter/dp/B06VTKPVGR/

 

Yeah I need to pick up some of those.  When I went to the local bike shop to get them set the first time, they were out.  👹👹

Funny, too, I really balk at using a compressor on bike tires.  I remember there was a bike shop near Naus on San Gabriel that had "free air" off a compressor in front of their shop. With fair regularity, you would hear a POP and cursing from over there when someone was careless with it on 700c tires or something low volume back in the day.  That shop probably made a lot of their own business that way.

Edited March 26, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Braff Zacklin 13672]

We had a pretty solid winter here in Idaho. Normally, our lowest exposed trails are rideable by mid-March, but many are still covered in ice, snow, water, or full of mud.

So for now, we're limited to up-and-back climbs on humble fire roads.

[Al_4_ISU 12542]

Over night lows have been above freezing and our exposed snow is completely gone.

We have a mild cold snap over the weekend (lows around 25), and the woods still have snow. A week from Friday I think we’ll be able to get at the single track. Probably ride gravel some this weekend.

[Braff Zacklin 13672]

After nearly three weeks of pavement and gravel, got to enjoy some singletrack today. I know it's not much of a picture, but this was as high as conditions allowed.

So slow right now. Power-to-weight ratio is poor. Gonna be a slog for a few weeks.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Braff Zacklin

[KuЯdt 248]

12 hours ago, Braff Zacklin said:

After nearly three weeks of pavement and gravel, got to enjoy some singletrack today. I know it's not much of a picture, but this was as high as conditions allowed.

So slow right now. Power-to-weight ratio is poor. Gonna be a slog for a few weeks.

That looks awesome. 

Are you near Boise?  I'm thinking of doing a couple mtb trips this summer.  I hit New Mexico every summer and have been to Colorado a few times (rode Monarch Crest).  I was just reading the other day that Boise has tons of badass trails.  Is it worth going as a destination trip?

[Braff Zacklin 13672]

Thanks. I'm on the other end of the state, in southeast Idaho.

The whole region is littered with wonderful trails. Boise and SLC have extensive networks of singletrack, but they can get surprisingly crowded. If you're more into the downhill aspect (or worried about the climbs), there are several locations with lift-serviced runs (most ski resorts offer them). A few bike/terrain parks are scattered around, such as the one in Teton Village near Jackson Hole.

However, if you just want to put in the miles--up and down--I'd be more than happy to guide you on our local trails. We have a few hundred miles worth, most of which is accessible/ride-able to intermediate cyclists.

I'll extend that offer to anyone on Surly--WD, Twice, Al, G650, etc. I love our trails and think y'all would, too.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Braff Zacklin
suddenly felt guilty for forgetting G650