Game of Thrones Season 8 (Bookfags unite)

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

2 hours ago, Dark Horse said:

I’m starting to think that fAegon and Victarian/Book Euron plots are critical for this shit to make sense.

 

These short cuts in the story have really fucked us.

 

 

 

I'm starting to think that GRRM had no plan at all on how to wrap everything up. 

[Viper 12,112]

he knows how he wants it to end and the big plot points I think, but he doesn't have everything mapped out and planned out about how to get there. He lets the story and characters "grow" in his mind. This has both helped and hurt. It's added amazing depth and realistic characters with so many intricate plots and details that have been amazing to read. However, as the story has gone on, this "overgrown garden" has made it harder and harder to keep everything together for the next book, it lead to him having to split the 4th book into 2 books each taking years to write, and now that he's trying to start tying stuff together to get to the final acts it's taken almost a decade to get the plots "trimmed" enough to fit into the next book. My hope is that he's actually spending the time to try to do a little bit more planning for the rest of the series.

And yes, fAegon and Euron are shaping up to be hugely important in how Martin has the rest of the series planned. fAegon is supposed to lead into the Dance of the Dragons 2.0 which I guess was supposed to take place in A Dance of Dragons, but again, Martin's "plot garden" became too overgrown to fit it in there, so now I don't expect the book titles will make much sense compared to the events that take place in them.

[elguapo 4,586]

5 hours ago, Mojo Hand said:

I had the same thoughts.  On the other hand, legitimizing Gendry probably weakens Cercei's claim the most, as far as those things go.  She's sitting in the Baratheon seat with no claim to it.   And the Baratheon claim was always considered weaker than any Targ claim.  I can buy that she's not concerned about a Baratheon who has bent the knee to her.

As far as Jon, perhaps it could backfire. Does legitimizing him as a Stark necessarily erase his legitimate Targ status or just his bastardy?   Legit Stark + legit Targ would arguably equal even stronger support for his claim. 

Doesn't seem like anyone really gives a damn about claims anymore. Apparently no one in KL is questioning Cersei as queen even though she has no claim to the throne at all. Jon has a better claim than Dany but she believes it's her destiny to sit on the Iron Throne. Tyrion now knows that Jon has a better claim as well but he's sticking with Dany because?

[hayden_horn 11,365]

1 hour ago, Viper said:

he knows how he wants it to end and the big plot points I think, but he doesn't have everything mapped out and planned out about how to get there. He lets the story and characters "grow" in his mind. This has both helped and hurt. It's added amazing depth and realistic characters with so many intricate plots and details that have been amazing to read. However, as the story has gone on, this "overgrown garden" has made it harder and harder to keep everything together for the next book, it lead to him having to split the 4th book into 2 books each taking years to write, and now that he's trying to start tying stuff together to get to the final acts it's taken almost a decade to get the plots "trimmed" enough to fit into the next book. My hope is that he's actually spending the time to try to do a little bit more planning for the rest of the series.

And yes, fAegon and Euron are shaping up to be hugely important in how Martin has the rest of the series planned. fAegon is supposed to lead into the Dance of the Dragons 2.0 which I guess was supposed to take place in A Dance of Dragons, but again, Martin's "plot garden" became too overgrown to fit it in there, so now I don't expect the book titles will make much sense compared to the events that take place in them.

goddamn, man, overgrown garden is the best descriptor of this shit show that i've heard. 

[Augustus 3,061]

4 hours ago, Mojo Hand said:

I'm starting to think that GRRM had no plan at all on how to wrap everything up. 

Bingo.

Very common problem for authors.

[hornian 5,230]

8 hours ago, Viper said:

The question I have is did Dany think through making Gendry a Baratheon? Because he now has a claim to the throne too (along with a ninja assassin girlfriend). And if she was legitimizing Gendry for his service, why didn't she legitimize Jon as a Stark for his much superior service? It was before everyone knew he was a Targaryen, it's what Jon has always wanted so he probably wouldn't turn it down and it would've thrown a wrench into anyone saying he has a better claim than she does. Plus it puts him in potential conflict with Sansa for control of Winterfell.

He’s only legitimized if she’s queen. I.E., he has to recognize her as his monarch, otherwise his title doesn’t mean shit. So even though he’s legitimized as a lord, the Baratheon line is no longer in play for the throne. 

[Bookman 4,642]

9 hours ago, elguapo said:

Doesn't seem like anyone really gives a damn about claims anymore. Apparently no one in KL is questioning Cersei as queen even though she has no claim to the throne at all. Jon has a better claim than Dany but she believes it's her destiny to sit on the Iron Throne. Tyrion now knows that Jon has a better claim as well but he's sticking with Dany because?

Why wouldn't Cersei have a claim? She's Tommen's only heir, right?

[SpiralOut 1,818]

7 hours ago, Augustus said:

Bingo.

Very common problem for authors.

Except most authors keep their nose to the grindstone and figure that shit out.  If it doesn't come out perfect, well, that's life.

Meanwhile, George has just completely abdicated any responsibility on finishing ASOIAF.  He's managed to write two different books, write scripts for the show, show up to a zillion different book signings and interviews and fan get-togethers, and is helping HBO with about four different spinoffs. 

He got stuck, had excuses to not keep working on it, and now the stress of actually getting it done has become so overwhelming he's probably just given up.  Easier just to ignore it and count your money, I suppose.

Plenty of no-name authors find themselves in the same situation, but they have to put food on the table so they work their way through it.

[Augustus 3,061]

6 minutes ago, SpiralOut said:

Except most authors keep their nose to the grindstone and figure that shit out.  If it doesn't come out perfect, well, that's life.

Meanwhile, George has just completely abdicated any responsibility on finishing ASOIAF.  He's managed to write two different books, write scripts for the show, show up to a zillion different book signings and interviews and fan get-togethers, and is helping HBO with about four different spinoffs. 

He got stuck, had excuses to not keep working on it, and now the stress of actually getting it done has become so overwhelming he's probably just given up.  Easier just to ignore it and count your money, I suppose.

Plenty of no-name authors find themselves in the same situation, but they have to put food on the table so they work their way through it.

I agree completely.

And I'm actually impressed by the hostility that's coming off your post so intensely that everything around it is wavy/blurry.  😂😂

[Viper 12,112]

7 hours ago, SpiralOut said:

Except most authors keep their nose to the grindstone and figure that shit out.  If it doesn't come out perfect, well, that's life.

Meanwhile, George has just completely abdicated any responsibility on finishing ASOIAF.  He's managed to write two different books, write scripts for the show, show up to a zillion different book signings and interviews and fan get-togethers, and is helping HBO with about four different spinoffs. 

He got stuck, had excuses to not keep working on it, and now the stress of actually getting it done has become so overwhelming he's probably just given up.  Easier just to ignore it and count your money, I suppose.

Plenty of no-name authors find themselves in the same situation, but they have to put food on the table so they work their way through it.

Regarding the different books, I don't think "writ[ing] two different books" is the way to view that. To extend my overgrown garden metaphor, while he's letting the ideas, plot and characters grow for WoW, he gets extra stuff that he has to "trim". So I think the proper way to view The World of Ice and Fire, and Fire and Blood are as a bunch of "clippings" he had from trimming the main book series that he spent a little effort putting together into new books to give everyone something to read while we wait for Winds of Winter. This is what I mean by the overgrown part of the metaphor. He has so much stuff "growing" that he can fill 2-3 (and probably more) spin-off books with it.

For the rest of the stuff in your list, I definitely agree.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Viper

[Michael Knight 12,995]

 

[Eastwood 4,394]

 

[CurlyDumps 4,485]

Maybe the fat man will get a surge of confidence,  because a D- GRRM ending will feel like an A+ when graded on a D&D curve.

[naija 2,869]

8 hours ago, Eastwood said:

 

I hope the 2 guys way up who kept defending the episode have a response to this

[APMP 688]

 

Wife and I have been discussing what characters we would actually watch a spin off for (assuming they survived)

Gendry the nobody bastard becomes a Lord but doesn't know how to do Lordly things. This could also be about Bronn I suppose.

Tyrion drinking and knowing things.




That actually might be it.

[Wild Bill 324]

11 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

 

sign me up

 

[Player 4,576]

Wife and I have been discussing what characters we would actually watch a spin off for (assuming they survived)

Gendry the nobody bastard becomes a Lord but doesn't know how to do Lordly things. This could also be about Bronn I suppose.

Tyrion drinking and knowing things.




That actually might be it.

It would have to be a prequel of sorts, but I would watch the hell out of the Strong Belwas Show.

[ernest_t_bass 1,196]

Just started rewatching the entire series.  At what point did the characters know R+L=J?   Sean Bean's pain in his facial expression are priceless, and knowing what we know now, tell the whole story (when talking about his sister to Jon Snow).

[Michael Knight 12,995]

On 5/8/2019 at 9:24 AM, Viper said:

The question I have is did Dany think through making Gendry a Baratheon? Because he now has a claim to the throne too (along with a ninja assassin girlfriend). And if she was legitimizing Gendry for his service, why didn't she legitimize Jon as a Stark for his much superior service? It was before everyone knew he was a Targaryen, it's what Jon has always wanted so he probably wouldn't turn it down and it would've thrown a wrench into anyone saying he has a better claim than she does. Plus it puts him in potential conflict with Sansa for control of Winterfell.

Jon was already king in the north, he doesn't need to be legitimized . You guys really put too much emphasis on claims to the throne. Legitimate claims are how you rally people to your cause, but actually having the throne is more powerful than any potential claim. Robert had some mild Targ blood which he used to bolster his claim but his most powerful claim to the throne came from winning.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Michael Knight

[Augustus 3,061]

5 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

Jon was already king in the north, he doesn't need to be legitimized . You guys really put too much emphasis on claims to the throne. Legitimate claims are how you rally people to your cause, but actually having the throne is more powerful than any potential claim. Robert had some mild Targ blood which he used to bolster his claim but his most powerful claim to the throne came from winning.

Exactly.

As I've noted here before:  I have Plantagenet blood.  But that doesn't stop that Saxe-Coburg-Gotha bitch from sitting on my throne.

[Bookman 4,642]

8 hours ago, ernest_t_bass said:

Just started rewatching the entire series.  At what point did the characters know R+L=J?   Sean Bean's pain in his facial expression are priceless, and knowing what we know now, tell the whole story (when talking about his sister to Jon Snow).

In Season 1, Episode 4, Jon Snow stands next to a carving of "R L" in Castle Black.

[utee94 15,869]

6 hours ago, Augustus said:

Exactly.

As I've noted here before:  I have Plantagenet blood.  But that doesn't stop that Saxe-Coburg-Gotha bitch from sitting on my throne.

This just means you're a frog and had no business on the throne of England anyway. Plus your idiot line gave us York and Lancaster and caused all kinds of ridiculous problems.  The Hundred Years War was a mercy compared to your ancestors' rule.  Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.

 

[Radical Larry 28,664]

 

[mdmost 43,059]

[A-Tex Devil 2,464]

15 hours ago, ernest_t_bass said:

Just started rewatching the entire series.  At what point did the characters know R+L=J?   Sean Bean's pain in his facial expression are priceless, and knowing what we know now, tell the whole story (when talking about his sister to Jon Snow).

Also his immediate emotional reaction to Robert sending assassins after Dany.  His mind is on John there.

[hayden_horn 11,365]

posted in the other thread:

ooofffff

[smwhorn 483]

2 hours ago, Radical Larry said:

 

 

Oops.  Shit.  That's right.  The Iron Fleet.  Forgot about that.

[alincoln 2,385]

2 hours ago, mdmost said:

Dude's got the most punchable face on the planet currently

[mdmost 43,059]

Seems Winter makes it really dry in southern Westeros. And has the ability to remove nearby hills. 

Edited May 10, 2019 by mdmost

[aggie08 21,560]

Can one of you magnificent literate bastards tell me if the books shat on the Dothraki as thoroughly as the show has post Drogo's death? I don't think the show has so much bothered to give us the name of any individual, important Dothraki, much less a decent one-on-one scene. All we got last episode was one Dothraki silently removing half of his army's chips from the table (and it should have been a hell of a lot more than half).

[aggie08 21,560]

5 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Seems Winter makes it really dry in southern Westeros. And has the ability to remove nearby hills. 

Ain't nobody got time for continuity.

[Burt Macklin 19,053]

15 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Seems Winter makes it really dry in southern Westeros. And has the ability to remove nearby hills. 

This so blatantly bad. lulz. Surely the show’s just doing this so they can have a clear patch of the land for the battle, right?

 

[elfenix 34,340]

mountains must  have blown away in the wind like leaves

[NeverMarryAStripper 21,966]

I think they were blown away when Cercei blew up the Sept

[Augustus 3,061]

13 hours ago, utee94 said:

This just means you're a frog and had no business on the throne of England anyway. Plus your idiot line gave us York and Lancaster and caused all kinds of ridiculous problems.  The Hundred Years War was a mercy compared to your ancestors' rule.  Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.

 

We may have come to England by way of Normandy, but your history is lacking if you think we were Frogs instead of the GotDamned Vikings we are.

Don't ever conflate us with those Gallic-Druid-tree worshipers again or I'll see you disinherited and your lands forfeit.

Edited May 11, 2019 by Augustus

[Augustus 3,061]

And Henry Tudor can suck the sweat off my Nordic balls.

[Go Pokes 979]

ou sucks

[Radical Larry 28,664]

[NorthLoop 14,254]

I'm very ok with those guys being the butt of memes for years to come

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

Add another one to the list.   Why did Euron not react to hearing that Tyrion already knew about the baby that Euron just found out about, and was supposedly recently conceived with him? 

“I think Euron, he’s not paying that much attention,” Nutter said

 

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5cd45cb5e4b0796a95d84ece

[Radical Larry 28,664]

I’m waiting for the Curb Your Enthusiasm theme to play over the finale credits.

[Herpa Derpa 6,132]

8 hours ago, NorthLoop said:

I'm very ok with those guys being the butt of memes for years to come

It truly is amazing how much they've managed to bungle the endgame.   

They were handed an unfinished Shakespeare masterpiece, and returned a Michael Bay script.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,979]

2 hours ago, Mojo Hand said:

Add another one to the list.   Why did Euron not react to hearing that Tyrion already knew about the baby that Euron just found out about, and was supposedly recently conceived with him? 

 

 

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5cd45cb5e4b0796a95d84ece

It's not like they've tried to establish him as an especially intelligent character. Or even one that is of average intelligence.

[Pods 7,586]

Apparently some maester in Westeros needs to invent Adderall. 

[Continental Op 3,934]

On 5/9/2019 at 8:43 PM, APMP said:

Wife and I have been discussing what characters we would actually watch a spin off for (assuming they survived)

Gendry the nobody bastard becomes a Lord but doesn't know how to do Lordly things. This could also be about Bronn I suppose.

Tyrion drinking and knowing things.




That actually might be it.

Podrick Payne and his giant fleshhammer slaying poon all over the Seven Kingdoms. 

[Surlybastard 65]

On 5/7/2019 at 9:21 AM, hornian said:

I don't understand why people on this thread care about spoilers. I mean we all read the books, which are the ultimate spoilers. And if GRRM had actually, you know, cared enough to finish the series we would have read those too. 

 

I think at this point the two forms of the story are clearly on divergent paths. So watching the series enfold now isn't really the same as having read the books and knowing where GRRM means for it all to go. So in that regard I think people would rather just watch the show for what it is sans spoilers.

[naija 2,869]

13 hours ago, longhornmatt said:

The context of his full answer might make it worse:

“For Nutter, the scene wasn’t really about that.

“I think Euron, he’s not paying that much attention,” Nutter said, explaining that the scene was more about Tyrion appealing to Cersei’s softer side.

Apparently, Tyrion wanted Cersei to “realize that she wasn’t a monster at all, that she was really, truly a mother.”

 

So:

(a) continuity isn’t important if the scene is mainly about a different plot,

(b) Euron was more interested in a nearby butterfly than in paying attention to the tense negotiations with the dragon-wielding army outside the walls that might lead to combat and his death in an inferno at any moment, and

(c) the people putting on the show think Tyrion, at this point in the story, believes Cersei isn’t a monster and that he just needs to make her find the good inside her, like Luke and Vader in Return of the Jedi.

Well, isn’t that special.

This same Tyrion:

“I will hurt you for this. I don't know how yet, but give me time. A day will come when you think yourself safe and happy, and suddenly your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth, and you'll know the debt is paid.”

[Haphap 742]

On 5/10/2019 at 1:28 PM, mdmost said:

Seems Winter makes it really dry in southern Westeros. And has the ability to remove nearby hills. 

underground Wildfire  explosion can wreck lasting environmental damages to its surrounding areas, to the point of levelling mountains and drying up the beaches

[Eastwood 4,394]

Kings Landing kind of forgot about trees and mountains.

[lockport 55]

Any predictions for tonight?