Game of Thrones Season 8 (Bookfags unite)

[elfenix 34171]

I hated the surprise death of rheagal, and it seems everyone complaining points out missendei's death but not the dragon's (a bigger event imo). rheagal dying in this episode and battle would have smoothed a lot of the complaints and also deleted (imo) the worst moment in the series. 

Night king javelin world champion is still out there. At least he's magic magic and not just plot magic, though.

 

[Buzzrock 14871]

That moment after Missandei’s death when Dany’s expression slowly changes (they showed it again in the “previously on GoT” segment) was really well done IMO. You can debate whether it was enough to send Dany over the edge but the way Emilia Clarke acted it was really great IMO. It reminded me of watching Dennis emerge in the psychiatrist’s office in Split.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Jon Snow really doesn’t know anything.  Fucking idiot. 

[Dark Horse 2263]

D&D decided that Dany would become the Mad Queen and included some throwaway dialogue in Season 8 episodes to justify that the turn was always coming despite the massacre representing a massive departure from her attitude toward the powerless established in excruciating detail in the first 7 seasons.  But Varys expressed concern in 8.4!!!

D&D did not decide that Dany would burn King’s Landing. That’s from the fat man.

Go back and watch the early seasons and see how many times Dany threatens to burn cities to the ground.

[Lazarus Bocanegra 303]

GoT makes me wish HBO brass didn't have a problem throwing money at expensive shows back when Rome was in production

Edited May 13, 2019 by Lazarus Bocanegra

[RPM 26227]

Looks like Lady Aaron of House Lambeau got some cameos.

[Burt Macklin 18998]

28 minutes ago, Dark Horse said:

D&D did not decide that Dany would burn King’s Landing. That’s from the fat man.

Go back and watch the early seasons and see how many times Dany threatens to burn cities to the ground.

I think this is right. I think Dany being Mad Queen was the third bullet point from GRRM. I don't  have a problem with that plot point, as long as the writer actually builds up to it, which D&D did not do. 

[jeevsie 3721]

That fire is like a blitzing linebacker.

[bolverk 29399]

27 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

I think this is right. I think Dany being Mad Queen was the third bullet point from GRRM. I don't  have a problem with that plot point, as long as the writer actually builds up to it, which D&D did not do. 

Aside from her obvious grief, feelings of betrayal, and disappointment over realizing she wouldn't be loved on this continent, I kept thinking to myself: "maybe she wouldn't be so cranky if she'd eaten something before going into battle."

[A-Tex Devil 2445]

45 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Aside from her obvious grief, feelings of betrayal, and disappointment over realizing she wouldn't be loved on this continent, I kept thinking to myself: "maybe she wouldn't be so cranky if she'd eaten something before going into battle."

Blame John.  He had something she wanted to eat, so to speak.

I liked the episode, but whatever.  I'm simply not watching it with the critical eye some of you are.  It's still not bad TV, and it's all too much fun to get pissed off about.  There are definitely some gaping plotting holes, and D&D have fallen off.  But much of the deterioration comes down to people in real life wanting to move the fuck on from Game of Thrones.  There isn't much to be done about that.  If HBO had put in new show runners we'd be bitching about how they aren't to D&D's level.  In any event, a lot of what I read above is more complaining that the story isn't ending the way people preferred it to.  Plus, some of the bad parts are pretty entertaining anyway:

- Euron went out like he came in - as a walking talking deus ex machina.  

- Arya convinces people to run to their death.  Whoops.

- Golden Company playing the role of Stephen Segal in Executive Decision. I actually admire and like this decision.  I was actually hoping they were going to pull an Irish in Braveheart, but that's OK.  That would have been awesome, though.  

On the more serious side:

- Dany and Greyworm had that moment at Dragonstone - "you'll know".  And that is clearly when Grey Worm went rogue and started killing the surrendering Lannisters.

- I'm fine with the way Jamie and Cersei went out.  Jamie did some good along the way, but couldn't escape Cersei and it killed him.  Valonqar prophecy isn't in the show I don't believe, anyway.  

- Hound v. Mountain was great.  That's the way it had to go if it wasn't going to be a trial by combat.

Edited May 13, 2019 by A-Tex Devil

[Fozzz 152]

Next episode:

*Arya stumbles through the ruins of King's Landing towards Dany sitting atop Drogon*

Dany (cackling at the cooked remains of the former denizens of King's Landing): Dracarys!

*Drogon opens up wide to bath Arya in dragon fire*

*Arya flings needle towards Drogon's gaping maw, causing Drogon to instantly explode in a massive fireball killing Dany*

*Jon emerges from the rubble looking confused*

THE END

[maninblack 7974]

19 hours ago, LonghornSean said:

The golden company

Should've broken that contract

[Buzzrock 14871]

Blame John.  He had something she wanted to eat, so to speak

Was it moose cock?

[maninblack 7974]

That nutless wonder is no Pod

[A-Tex Devil 2445]

I will readily admit, however, that cramming all of the rapid-fire one liners over the seasons into the "previously on" to try to foreshadow and justify Dany's turn was pretty weak sauce.  I mean it's better than her tossing and turning in a dream state while floating heads go by saying all of those one-liners.  But not much better.  

[hayden_horn 11360]

Just now, A-Tex Devil said:

I will readily admit, however, that cramming all of the rapid-fire one liners over the seasons into the "previously on" to try to foreshadow and justify Dany's turn was pretty weak sauce.  I mean it's better than her tossing and turning in a dream state while floating heads go by saying all of those one-liners.  But not much better.  

yeah, that was clunky AF, and basically tipped the hand that dany was going mad queen. "do you want to wake the dragon?" gosh.

[Mileslong 4714]

The golden company’s performance reminded me of the Longhorns vs TCU in 2015

[utee94 15745]

56 minutes ago, A-Tex Devil said:

I will readily admit, however, that cramming all of the rapid-fire one liners over the seasons into the "previously on" to try to foreshadow and justify Dany's turn was pretty weak sauce.  I mean it's better than her tossing and turning in a dream state while floating heads go by saying all of those one-liners.  But not much better.  

[GabrielsHorn 2142]

4 hours ago, elguapo said:

I can buy Dany becoming the Mad Queen, I just don't think they did a great job of setting it up. I think there should have been a traumatic trigger event to set her off in the heat of the battle.

The episode would have been much better if Dany's trigger was a fake surrender by Lannister troops and moving Rheagal's death to this week. 

[Viper 12030]

2 hours ago, bolverk said:

Aside from her obvious grief, feelings of betrayal, and disappointment over realizing she wouldn't be loved on this continent, I kept thinking to myself: "maybe she wouldn't be so cranky if she'd eaten something before going into battle."

If she'd have eaten something Varys' poison would have killed her, plus she didn't have a Snickers. 

[austingirl 2186]

10 hours ago, Mojo Hand said:

What I thought was unfolding was, Cersei would ring the bells as a trick, and unleashes a surprise attack once Dany's forces lower their guard.   It fails, but Dany is furious and goes justifiably apeshit because the surrender was fake.    But what happened is that she got nearly everything that motivated her for years, and her response was to destroy virtually all of it. 

This is what I thought, too. They were Chekhov's gunning the bells like crazy but it didn't play out like I hoped.

10 hours ago, Juicy said:

would have made for a much better story if Jamie wouldnt have blown his whole redemption arc, making up with Cersei and would have killed her, rang the bells and then Dany went mad. 

The jamie death was the worst of last nights mistakes. 

When Jaime showed up with Cersei, I was expecting him to be Arya in No One mode. 

[Radical Larry 28528]

[Surlybastard 65]

I think people are going overboard on how many triggers it should take Dany to go full on bat shit crazy. The main strike is that she comes from a long line of people who interbred like minxes for 300 years and there is around a 50/50 chance that she would eventually go insane as a result. That's even before you get to her having a psychopath as a brother who sold her for an army, her having messianic delusions about herself, her losing two of her children/dragons and everything else. Killing things with dragon fire had become her go to way to solve any problem long before she burnt down KL and she was likely already nearly mad regardless of how much it was conveyed by the show. Her coin toss came back crazy as fuck.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Surlybastard

[bad_teammate 13132]

it's almost like people who think they're owed the rule of the entire world are nutcases

weird

[naija 2854]

27 minutes ago, Surlybastard said:

I think people are going overboard on how many triggers it should take Dany to go full on bat shit crazy. The main strike is that she comes from a long line of people who interbred like minxes for 300 years and there is around a 50/50 chance that she would eventually go insane as a result. That's even before you get to her having a psychopath as a brother who sold her for an army, her having messianic delusions about herself, her losing two of her children/dragons and everything else. Killing things with dragon fire had become her go to way to solve any problem long before she burnt down KL and she was likely already nearly mad regardless of how much it was conveyed by the show. Her coin toss came back crazy as fuck.

all well and good, but apply that to the other Targ in the show, who you know has been through some shit too. I mean, where does getting killed and brought back to life rank on the "shit that can tip you into madness" scale. Jon is good just because Jon is good? I think alot of what people are using to justify what happened is retconning. Even if GRRM intended this end, I highly doubt it's been filmed from the beginning of the show what all of this in mind. strangely, visually, I'd say it was one of the best episodes they've ever done.

[Surlybastard 65]

2 minutes ago, naija said:

all well and good, but apply that to the other Targ in the show, who you know has been through some shit too. I mean, where does getting killed and brought back to life rank on the "shit that can tip you into madness" scale. Jon is good just because Jon is good? I think alot of what people are using to justify what happened is retconning. Even if GRRM intended this end, I highly doubt it's been filmed from the beginning of the show what all of this in mind. strangely, visually, I'd say it was one of the best episodes they've ever done.

Jon's coin flip came back normal and he happens to be one of the few somewhat good characters on the show. Its not that every Targaryan has a breaking point where they go full on crazy. Its that some just revert to crazy as their normal at a certain age while others don't. Jon also has a Stark as a mother while I think Dany is full blooded Targaryen though I may be wrong on that. Dany can't accept things not going the way she wants them to. She needs to be a messianic figure who is revered by her subjects in order to feel she is being given her proper respect.

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

11 minutes ago, naija said:

all well and good, but apply that to the other Targ in the show, who you know has been through some shit too. I mean, where does getting killed and brought back to life rank on the "shit that can tip you into madness" scale. Jon is good just because Jon is good? I think alot of what people are using to justify what happened is retconning. Even if GRRM intended this end, I highly doubt it's been filmed from the beginning of the show what all of this in mind. strangely, visually, I'd say it was one of the best episodes they've ever done.

Jeffrey Dahmer's nephew didn't cook oriental kids.  

[naija 2854]

3 minutes ago, Surlybastard said:

Jon's coin flip came back normal and he happens to be one of the few somewhat good characters on the show. Its not that every Targaryan has a breaking point where they go full on crazy. Its that some just revert to crazy as their normal at a certain age while others don't. Jon also has a Stark as a mother while I think Dany is full blooded Targaryen though I may be wrong on that. Dany can't accept things not going the way she wants them to. She needs to be a messianic figure who is revered by her subjects in order to feel she is being given her proper respect.

I didn't say that it should be expected that every Targaryen should be crazy, but through GRRM's histories, it wasn't strictly tied to being fully Targaryen. Also, Daenerys is the daughter of two Targaryens. But when you start picking things like a coin-flip to explain your decisions and conveniently leaving out other important parts of the novels where it doesn't fit, it comes off to me as being uninspired and lazy.

Somehow, they've managed to disappoint both readers of the books and those who have watched the show only. I'll probably still enjoy the end, and it is easy to forget now that HBO picking this show wasn't always a sure thing, but it easy to see where there has been room for improvement

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

3 minutes ago, Surlybastard said:

Jon's coin flip came back normal and he happens to be one of the few somewhat good characters on the show. Its not that every Targaryan has a breaking point where they go full on crazy. Its that some just revert to crazy as their normal at a certain age while others don't. Jon also has a Stark as a mother while I think Dany is full blooded Targaryen though I may be wrong on that. Dany can't accept things not going the way she wants them to. She needs to be a messianic figure who is revered by her subjects in order to feel she is being given her proper respect.

I think she's full Targ???  But to your point, heres an analogy.  Not every pit bull kills kills humans, but they're more likely to kill than labs

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

5 minutes ago, naija said:

I didn't say that it should be expected that every Targaryen should be crazy, but through GRRM's histories, it wasn't strictly tied to being fully Targaryen. Also, Daenerys is the daughter of two Targaryens. But when you start picking things like a coin-flip to explain your decisions and conveniently leaving out other important parts of the novels where it doesn't fit, it comes off to me as being uninspired and lazy.

Somehow, they've managed to disappoint both readers of the books and those who have watched the show only. I'll probably still enjoy the end, and it is easy to forget now that HBO picking this show wasn't always a sure thing, but it easy to see where there has been room for improvement

.  We can literally nitpick every show.  Earlier someone mentioned that Cersei's death was too plain ,didn't have an impact.  The last 6 villains (Joff, Ramsey, etc) all had gruesome, satisfying deaths.  If Cersei was #7, half the crowd would say "JFC D + D, not every death has to be poetic!!!"  Sometimes people complain for the sake of compalining.

 

Sansa and Arya are both Starks but they're not anything alike, and they were actually raised together?

Edited May 14, 2019 by Barry_McCokiner

[High Plains Drifter 10976]

3 hours ago, Mileslong said:

The golden company’s performance reminded me of the Longhorns vs TCU in 2015

Goddammit.

[Surlybastard 65]

4 minutes ago, naija said:

I didn't say that it should be expected that every Targaryen should be crazy, but through GRRM's histories, it wasn't strictly tied to being fully Targaryen. Also, Daenerys is the daughter of two Targaryens. But when you start picking things like a coin-flip to explain your decisions and conveniently leaving out other important parts of the novels where it doesn't fit, it comes off to me as being uninspired and lazy.

Somehow, they've managed to disappoint both readers of the books and those who have watched the show only. I'll probably still enjoy the end, and it is easy to forget now that HBO picking this show wasn't always a sure thing, but it easy to see where there has been room for improvement

The coin flip is an integral part of the overall plot that's been built up since book 1. When people intermarry too much it does mess with the children. Its plainly stated that there is basically a 50/50 chance that any Targaryen will start displaying this madness around adulthood. Martin obviously planned this to play into Danyreus' story almost from the beginning. He'd hook people into thinking she is this great little Mary Sue princess and then pull the rug out at the end and go 'fuck off, she's as crazy as her dad was' which culminates in her doing the thing her father tried to do before Jamie stuck a sword in him. Jon is like her without all the egomania and craziness. They are similar in many ways but Jon has an innate humility in that he doesn't want to be king while the idea of being destined to rule has been ingrained in Dany since she was a little girl.

[Surlybastard 65]

7 minutes ago, Barry_McCokiner said:

I think she's full Targ???  But to your point, heres an analogy.  Not every pit bull kills kills humans, but they're more likely to kill than labs

I don't think that's an accurate analogy. Had Jon been raised with the idea he is Targaryan and with all the other bullshit Dany was maybe it would be sort of accurate but that's not part of Jon's persona. His genes aren't a weakness. Just as Martin goes out of his way to show that his father was an honorable and good person also.

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

1 minute ago, Surlybastard said:

I don't think that's an accurate analogy. Had Jon been raised with the idea he is Targaryan and with all the other bullshit Dany was maybe it would be sort of accurate but that's not part of Jon's persona. His genes aren't a weakness. Just as Martin goes out of his way to show that his father was an honorable and good person also.

Maybe not, but my point is Targs seem more likely to go crazy than Starks, but Jon was raised correctly, DAny was raised by a douchebag, incestuous, power hungry, entitled brother. 

[Surlybastard 65]

1 minute ago, Barry_McCokiner said:

Maybe not, but my point is Targs seem more likely to go crazy than Starks, but Jon was raised correctly, DAny was raised by a douchebag, incestuous, power hungry, entitled brother. 

I mentioned that above. She has two major personality flaws. One is the things she was raised to believe about her and her family and the other is her crazy gene. Jon on the other hand has neither.

[austingirl 2186]

Regardless of the story itself, the acting was phenomenal. We've never seen Cersei cry, or see Tyrion slack-jawed in shock. The Hound's whole demeanor as he fought his brother was fantastic. I'm at least grateful that the actors were able to get everything they could out of the script.

[Burt Macklin 18998]

36 minutes ago, naija said:

all well and good, but apply that to the other Targ in the show, who you know has been through some shit too. I mean, where does getting killed and brought back to life rank on the "shit that can tip you into madness" scale. Jon is good just because Jon is good? I think alot of what people are using to justify what happened is retconning. Even if GRRM intended this end, I highly doubt it's been filmed from the beginning of the show what all of this in mind. strangely, visually, I'd say it was one of the best episodes they've ever done.

 

28 minutes ago, Surlybastard said:

Jon's coin flip came back normal and he happens to be one of the few somewhat good characters on the show. Its not that every Targaryan has a breaking point where they go full on crazy. Its that some just revert to crazy as their normal at a certain age while others don't. Jon also has a Stark as a mother while I think Dany is full blooded Targaryen though I may be wrong on that. Dany can't accept things not going the way she wants them to. She needs to be a messianic figure who is revered by her subjects in order to feel she is being given her proper respect.

Jon’s also not inbred. A lot of the talk about coin flips and Targs being crazy in the books and World of Ice and Fire is believed to be more due to them typically being products of incest than just having Targ.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Burt Macklin

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

2 minutes ago, Surlybastard said:

I mentioned that above. She has two major personality flaws. One is the things she was raised to believe about her and her family and the other is her crazy gene. Jon on the other hand has neither.

And she could just be an inherently crazy bitch.  Schizos aren't schizos at 10, but they could be at 20.  Given whats happened to her in her short life, especially the last few years, can you blame her for cracking?

[Surlybastard 65]

1 minute ago, Burt Macklin said:

 

Jon’s also not inbred. A lot of the talk about coin flips and Targs being crazy in the books and World of Ice and Fire is believed to be more due to them typically being products of incest than just having Targ.

Right but half his genes are full on inbred. So ya there's probably less of a chance he gets the crazy gene but there's still a chance of sorts I would say.

[Surlybastard 65]

1 minute ago, Barry_McCokiner said:

And she could just be an inherently crazy bitch.  Schizos aren't schizos at 10, but they could be at 20.  Given whats happened to her in her short life, especially the last few years, can you blame her for cracking?

I don't blame her for anything. She's just a character on a show. I don't think what she's been through would somehow justify burning a city full of thousands of civilians though.

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

Just now, Surlybastard said:

I don't blame her for anything. She's just a character on a show. I don't think what she's been through would somehow justify burning a city full of thousands of civilians though.

You mean this is a fantasy?  What are you going to tell me next, that this doesn't take place on earth.  I think we can allow for some creative liberty, haven't said that D and D are perfect, but Dany going crazy isn't a stretch imo.

2 minutes ago, Surlybastard said:

Right but half his genes are full on inbred. So ya there's probably less of a chance he gets the crazy gene but there's still a chance of sorts I would say.

yes, but Rhaegar didn't seem crazy right?

Just now, Surlybastard said:

 

 

[Buzzrock 14871]

GRRM is a genius. If everyone hates how the show ends he can just say the books are better and then never write them.

[billfromlaketravis 11359]

6 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

GRRM is a genius. If everyone hates how the show ends he can just say the books are better and then never write them.

I'm already expecting the final book to be released posthumously. Based on interviews, I think GRRM doesn't know how to end it.

I tend to believe Winds of Winter is finished. 

[billfromlaketravis 11359]

The Cleganebowl happened. And I saw it. I don't care how the series ends. At least I got that. 

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

7 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I think they set it up okay.  You don’t find out who someone really is until they face losing everything they have or want to have.  She already lost dragons, she lost her Missandei, and she lost the love of her Jon Snow.  All she wanted was her throne and she was on the verge of losing that too.  She would burn all of Westeros to prevent that from happening and I think that’s the takeaway. 

Almost like a warning to anyone thinking of taking her crown.

[Burt Macklin 18998]

5 minutes ago, Barry_McCokiner said:

Almost like a warning to anyone thinking of taking her crown.

Yes. I'm sure that warning will be very effective during the next episode.

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

2 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Yes. I'm sure that warning will be very effective during the next episode.

She ain't exactly Alfred Einstein

[Burt Macklin 18998]

5 minutes ago, Barry_McCokiner said:

She ain't exactly Alfred Einstein

She used to have some moments of brilliance, but now no one is with these writers. Literally every smart character on the show became stupid as soon as D&D were fully responsible for the writing.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Burt Macklin

[SquishMitten 10400]

3 hours ago, GabrielsHorn said:

The episode would have been much better if Dany's trigger was a fake surrender by Lannister troops and moving Rheagal's death to this week. 

Gotdamn, people. Are we upset that there wasn’t any build up for mad-queen in previous episodes? Or are we upset that all the build up didn’t occur in this episode? 

99 problems for bookfags to be upset about in this episode, but a bitch queen ain’t one

[SquishMitten 10400]

1 hour ago, naija said:

Somehow, they've managed to disappoint both readers of the books and those who have watched the show only. I'll probably still enjoy the end, and it is easy to forget now that HBO picking this show wasn't always a sure thing, but it easy to see where there has been room for improvement

I think we’ve all forgotten that there wasn’t a single one of us that expected this show to have a happy ending. And the majority of us assumed the show would outpace GRRM, which we knew would inevitably lead to an even shittier wrap up. We got great seasons while there was source material from the books, and we got something far less than that without them. There’s a reason so many of us are passionate about this - GRRM is arguably the best storyteller of our lifetimes (at least in this genre). If “anybody” could write this story, there wouldn’t be a separate thread for BFs and illiterati. I’ve voiced plenty of concerns about D&D, but they’ve probably done as good a job as anybody could have...other than not even knowing how to pronounce the names of central characters.

With one episode left, I’ve given up on being pissed. Watched this last episode again with that mindset, and it was pretty enjoyable. I assume most illiterati are OK with how everything has gone. They don’t know how to read, so it’s not like their attention span is good enough to recognize gaping plot holes and character swings.  Looking forward to doing the same next week, and hopefully we’ll get books some day to salve the wounds.