Game of Thrones Season 8 (Bookfags unite)

[Finkle_Is_Einhorn 35]

Maybe this has been brought up but I didn’t look. Possible foreshadow for the dead rising in Winterfell. Unknown whether they would fight for the good guys or the NK but would be great to see Ned rise after it took almost the entire books to get his bones back to Winterfell.


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[naija 2854]

3 hours ago, Eastwood said:

My theory, that I have nothing to base on other than my raw assumptions, is that GRRM got pissy that his readers figured out his big reveal. Once the R+L=J became widely accepted, he either lost the desire to finish the story or decided to overhaul the story so it didn't match the show. The first three books had everything the fans needed to piece it together and A Storm of Swords came out 19 years ago. Then it took 5 years to crank out Feast, then another 6 for Dance. We are now on year 8 for Winds with no end in sight. I don't plan on reading Winds or Spring unless they venture far enough from the show for there to be a legit argument about what the better canon would be.

but the readers figured that out a long, long time ago. before the show started

[Party_Taco 3674]

My guess is that, after appearing to gain the upper hand, Brienne’s flank folds and Winterfall falls along with most of our heroes. Some will escape, perhaps to the Iron Islands, and the rest of Westeros will burn, leaving but a few to start a new generation of Iron Born.

[Eastwood 4394]

5 minutes ago, naija said:

but the readers figured that out a long, long time ago. before the show started

Which is why it took 11 years total to finish Feast and Dance. His whole "Mereenese knot" thing is just an excuse. He hands over the old playbook to the show, keeps his new playbook to himself if he ever decides to come back to it. Might also explain the huge departures after the 4th season. The series was greenlit and began development in 2007, so the playbook was handed off right after Feast was published and before GRRM started writing Dance in earnest. That might be why most of Dance doesn't appear in the show. It's been 8 years since I read it, but it appears that the only plot points that were kept was getting Tyrion to Jorah, Jon's stabbing, and Dany flying off for the first time, with large chunks of the Dance plot like Young Griff are left out of the show because Young Griff wasn't in the original playbook. Interestingly enough, GRRM stopped writing his one episode per season after season 4. According to Wiki, they started tapping into the playbook in Season 5, and all of Season 7 and 8 is either original content from the show writers themselves or the playbook. 

Again, this is all just wild speculation on my part. 

[Eastwood 4394]

36 minutes ago, Finkle_Is_Einhorn said:

Maybe this has been brought up but I didn’t look. Possible foreshadow for the dead rising in Winterfell. Unknown whether they would fight for the good guys or the NK but would be great to see Ned rise after it took almost the entire books to get his bones back to Winterfell.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Here is a pretty good theory that uses that dream as evidence that Rhaegar's harp and dragon egg are buried with Lyanna. https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/99797-a-theory-the-possibly-game-changing-secret-beneath-the-winterfell-crypts/

[PRONG HORN 3104]

25 minutes ago, Eastwood said:

Here is a pretty good theory that uses that dream as evidence that Rhaegar's harp and dragon egg are buried with Lyanna. https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/99797-a-theory-the-possibly-game-changing-secret-beneath-the-winterfell-crypts/

 

Of course Jon gets an egg.  If he survives.  

[Haphap 741]

11 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I will go out on limb and take the 100,000-1 bet that Robin Arryn rides in to save the day and become the greatest king Westeros ever had.

I bet he would love details about Tormund's story of giants breastfeeding ten year olds, to the extent of finding out her whereabouts

[bamachine 1230]

3 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

he rides in and fucks lady mormont

You got that backwards.

[Michael Knight 12898]

hot pie is gonna sit on the iron throne

[SpiralOut 1809]

While walking the dog tonight I was thinking about this thread and ol' George not finishing the books.  And I kinda realized how much even we ultra-cynics have underestimated the impossibility of him finishing.

About the time ADWD came out and George was still writing and people still thought book releases would keep up with the show, George said he planned for the series to be seven books.  So only two more.  The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring.  Because of publishing restraints related to the printing process, books can't be more than around 1200 pages or so, but lets assume George could get 1500 pages apiece of TWOW and ADOS.  That's 3000 pages to finish his story.  Here's a list of things that still need to be wrapped up in the books assuming no new places, people, or plots get introduced.  And of course, I'm going to forget about half a hundred things.

Essos:

1.  Arya is still with the Faceless Men and none of this has been resolved.

2.  Illyrio Mopatis is still out there kicking around and we probably need to have a check in with him at some point.

3.  Dany has just been found by the Dothraki.  She still has a LOT to do in Essos.

4.  We haven't been to Asshai yet.  It's big in the prophecies.  We probably need to see this place.

5.  Tyrion, Penny, and Jorah's stuff.

6.  Second Sons, the slaver army, attack on Meereen.

7.  Victarion's story and him showing up at Meereen.

8.  Everything to do with the Golden Company.

9.  Iron Bank stuff.

North of the Wall:

1.  Bran's entire storyline.  He's still with Bloodraven under the tree and hasn't learned jack shit yet.

2.  Night King and Co.

3.  Everything to do with Hardhome.

4.  Coldhands/Benjen.

The North:

1.  Stannis is still snowed in outside Winterfell.  Boltons still run Winterfell.  This involves a bunch of characters.

2.  Theon/Fake Sansa escape shenanigans.

3.  Mance Rayder and his ladies.

4.  Jon just got murked at Castle Black.  Melisandre, Shireen.  All the wildlings stuff.

5.  Howland Reed (unless he's the High Sparrow?)

6.  All the crazy weird shit to do with the crypts of Winterfell.

Riverlands:

1.  The Freys and Old Man Walder still need to get got.

2.  Blackfish Tully is still kicking about.

3.  Harrenhal

4.  Brotherhood, Lady Stoneheart, Brienne, Pod, Jaime.

5.  The Hound being the Gravedigger and working for the Sept.

Vale:

1.  Sansa and Littlefinger

2.  Robbin

3.  Harry the Heir

Iron Islands:

1.  Bunch of Ironborn stuff.

2.  Bunch of Euron stuff.

Crownlands:

1.  A zillion things to do with Cersei and King's Landing.  We haven't even finished up with the Sparrows.

2.  Fake Dragon storyline w/ Young Griff involving a bunch of characters.

Westerlands:

1.  Gotta get to Casterly Rock at some point.

2.  Jayne Westerling w/ Robb's kid is still a thing, unlike in the show.

Reach:

1.  Queen of Thorns is still kicking about.

2.  The Tarlys are still kicking about.

3.  Ja'qen Hagar infiltrating the Citadel, Marwyn, Samwell, and everything else to do with Oldtown.

Dorne:

1.  The entire Fire and Blood Martell plot.

2.  Darkstar

3.  All the Sand Snakes nonsense.

How in the sweet fuck are you going to fit all of that into 3000 pages?  There are dozens of major plotlines to finish.  There are at least 100 major characters who need to have their stories handled.  This series needs 10 books, easy, to convincingly wrap everything up.  And we're now on Year 8 for book six.  George turns 71 in September.  Enjoy these final four episodes.  Cause it's all the closure we're gonna get.

Edited April 23, 2019 by SpiralOut

[Nice Guy Eddie 13414]

There can be closure on all of those storylines after GRRM passes and his estate hires others to finish the books.  Given the popularity of the books and especially the tv show, this doesn’t end with GRRM dying. 

[UTGrad98 2258]

My take on what would be the best way to end the series as far as the major characters go. 

Episode 3 - Jon’s and the night king’s dragon die fighting each other leaving Jon and the night king on foot. Jon retreats to bran and fights the night king. He wins the fight somehow but when he tries to kill the night king he can’t because there has been no ultimate sacrifice for lightbringer. 

Jon bran Sansa Arya Jamie Tyrion and dany make it out alive. 

Episode 4 - this is about their retreat and the realization that the only way the nk can die is by lightbringer. The episode ends with Jon stabbing dany through the heart to restore lightbringer. 

Episode 5 - battle for Westeros in Kings Landing. Both episode 3 and 5 are directed by the same guy who did most of the shows battle episodes. It makes sense episode 5 is another battle and probably in Kings Landing. Jon kills the night King who then kills him ala Excalibur’s ending where father and son embrace with their swords. Jaime kills Cersei . Hound and or Arya kill the mountain . 

episode 6 - epilogue. Bran goes north of the wall as the 3 eyed raven. Tyrion sets up a democracy with all nations under their own rule . Jaime is his hand. Sansa rebuilds winterfell. Arya abandons the faceless men. The last scene is Sam aka grrm sitting down in the citadel to chronicle the entire thing. 

[WBT 20422]

5 hours ago, SpiralOut said:

While walking the dog tonight I was thinking about this thread and ol' George not finishing the books.  And I kinda realized how much even we ultra-cynics have underestimated the impossibility of him finishing.

About the time ADWD came out and George was still writing and people still thought book releases would keep up with the show, George said he planned for the series to be seven books.  So only two more.  The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring.  Because of publishing restraints related to the printing process, books can't be more than around 1200 pages or so, but lets assume George could get 1500 pages apiece of TWOW and ADOS.  That's 3000 pages to finish his story.  Here's a list of things that still need to be wrapped up in the books assuming no new places, people, or plots get introduced.  And of course, I'm going to forget about half a hundred things.

 Essos:

 1.  Arya is still with the Faceless Men and none of this has been resolved.

2.  Illyrio Mopatis is still out there kicking around and we probably need to have a check in with him at some point.

3.  Dany has just been found by the Dothraki.  She still has a LOT to do in Essos.

4.  We haven't been to Asshai yet.  It's big in the prophecies.  We probably need to see this place.

5.  Tyrion, Penny, and Jorah's stuff.

6.  Second Sons, the slaver army, attack on Meereen.

7.  Victarion's story and him showing up at Meereen.

8.  Everything to do with the Golden Company.

 9.  Iron Bank stuff.

 North of the Wall:

1.  Bran's entire storyline.  He's still with Bloodraven under the tree and hasn't learned jack shit yet.

2.  Night King and Co.

3.  Everything to do with Hardhome.

 4.  Coldhands/Benjen.

The North:

1.  Stannis is still snowed in outside Winterfell.  Boltons still run Winterfell.  This involves a bunch of characters.

2.  Theon/Fake Sansa escape shenanigans.

 3.  Mance Rayder and his ladies.

4.  Jon just got murked at Castle Black.  Melisandre, Shireen.  All the wildlings stuff.

5.  Howland Reed (unless he's the High Sparrow?)

6.  All the crazy weird shit to do with the crypts of Winterfell.

Riverlands:

1.  The Freys and Old Man Walder still need to get got.

2.  Blackfish Tully is still kicking about.

 3.  Harrenhal

4.  Brotherhood, Lady Stoneheart, Brienne, Pod, Jaime.

5.  The Hound being the Gravedigger and working for the Sept.

Vale:

1.  Sansa and Littlefinger

2.  Robbin

3.  Harry the Heir

Iron Islands:

1.  Bunch of Ironborn stuff.

2.  Bunch of Euron stuff.

Crownlands:

1.  A zillion things to do with Cersei and King's Landing.  We haven't even finished up with the Sparrows.

2.  Fake Dragon storyline w/ Young Griff involving a bunch of characters.

Westerlands:

1.  Gotta get to Casterly Rock at some point.

2.  Jayne Westerling w/ Robb's kid is still a thing, unlike in the show.

Reach:

1.  Queen of Thorns is still kicking about.

 2.  The Tarlys are still kicking about.

 3.  Ja'qen Hagar infiltrating the Citadel, Marwyn, Samwell, and everything else to do with Oldtown.

 Dorne:

1.  The entire Fire and Blood Martell plot.

2.  Darkstar

3.  All the Sand Snakes nonsense.

How in the sweet fuck are you going to fit all of that into 3000 pages?  There are dozens of major plotlines to finish.  There are at least 100 major characters who need to have their stories handled.  This series needs 10 books, easy, to convincingly wrap everything up.  And we're now on Year 8 for book six.  George turns 71 in September.  Enjoy these final four episodes.  Cause it's all the closure we're gonna get.

Good post and I agree.  I've long thought there's no way to wrap it up in only two more books.  It feels like 3 or maybe even 4 at minimum.

[CooterBrown 17911]

1 hour ago, UTGrad98 said:

Hound and or Arya kill the mountain . 

Arya & the Hound go to kill Cercei. They kill her and the Mountain.  The prophecy said "the valonqar" which IIRC just means the younger sibling. There's no gender attached to the word but Cercei assumes her little brother.  The witch never said it was her valonqar. Both the Hound and Arya fit the prophecy.

[seven 1366]

Watched the episode again last night. Dany seemed much less angry about the Jon news the second time around. It looked much more like a realization that she is maybe not supposed to be queen and less concern about her claim. 

I haven't bought into any of the mad queen smoke they've been raising the last two seasons though, so maybe I'm seeing what I want. 

[Viper 12030]

11 hours ago, Finkle_Is_Einhorn said:

Maybe this has been brought up but I didn’t look. Possible foreshadow for the dead rising in Winterfell. Unknown whether they would fight for the good guys or the NK but would be great to see Ned rise after it took almost the entire books to get his bones back to Winterfell.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I just don't think they're going to go there. First off, all the dead in the crypts are what? skeletons at most and dust at worst? How are they going to move? how are they going actually open the vaults even if they can move?

Maybe Rickon would have a body, but would Ned? It's always described as his "bones" not his body that was brought to Winterfell.

[Eastwood 4394]

4 minutes ago, Viper said:

I just don't think they're going to go there. First off, all the dead in the crypts are what? skeletons at most and dust at worst? How are they going to move? how are they going actually open the vaults even if they can move?

Maybe Rickon would have a body, but would Ned? It's always described as his "bones" not his body that was brought to Winterfell.

So, this had me circle back around to wondering why Benjen was a sentient wight and came across this:

Quote

Benjen explains that, during his fateful ranging beyond the wall, he was attacked by White Walkers, one of whom shoved an ice sword into his gut and left him for dead. He was discovered by the Children of the Forest, who stopped him from falling to the control of the White Walkers by shoving a piece of dragonglass into his chest.

It was in the episode Blood of My Blood. It might be possible to revert those killed by White Walkers by piercing their hearts with dragon glass. I wonder if Valaryian steel also works...

[Rougarou 594]

9 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

hot pie is gonna sit on the iron throne

What is hot can never pie. Hot Pie those bastards, anyway brother.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21781]

On 4/21/2019 at 10:16 PM, Not a cat said:

So who has the more legitimate claim, Jon or the baratheon-stark love child coming out in 9 months?  

 

On 4/21/2019 at 10:18 PM, futureman said:

gendry’s a bastard.  he has no claim. 

Baratheon was a usurper, any Targaryen has a better claim

[huge 3788]

What about the Azor Ahai prophecy where the prince that was promised has to shove his sword in his loves heart to make it the Lightbringer?

hmmmmm

[mdmost 42865]

Well he shoved his sword into the heart of something of hers. Ehhhhhhhhhhhh!

[Eastwood 4394]

11 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Well he shoved his sword into the heart of something of hers. Ehhhhhhhhhhhh!

Jon's dick is Lightbringer confirmed.

[SpiralOut 1809]

6 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

There can be closure on all of those storylines after GRRM passes and his estate hires others to finish the books.  Given the popularity of the books and especially the tv show, this doesn’t end with GRRM dying. 

That probably involves a quite inferior product though, right?

Sanderson finishing up for Jordan wasn't a huge deal because it isn't like Jordan had a zillion different mysteries, prophecies, and riddles to tie up.  Plus, while Jordan was a very good writer, his prose wasn't something you just had to replicate.  I think it's a much bigger ask to pull that off for Martin. 

There's also the issue of Martin's writing style.  He has referred to himself as a gardener who doesn't really write down plot points and outlines and all the rest.  So, while he may have a general idea of how he wants everything to finish up, I can't for a second believe he has each plotline and character arc mapped out.  So if he croaks I think whoever steps in would be taking a lot of shots in the dark.

[Eastwood 4394]

17 minutes ago, huge said:

What about the Azor Ahai prophecy where the prince that was promised has to shove his sword in his loves heart to make it the Lightbringer?

hmmmmm

To piggyback off of this, Longclaw might not be Lightbringer. Heartsbane was given to Jorah, who will probably fall trying to protect Dany. With the way the writing has been, the show would beat us over the head with something like Heartsbane being plunged into Dany's heart.

[Dark Horse 2263]

Y’all act like we haven’t seen skeleton wights in the show before.



How will they move? Uh, magic, the thing that allows them to come back from the dead to begin with.

[Drew 2331]

But without tendons and muscles it's not realistic. Duh.

[tx 3 putt 76381]

7 minutes ago, Drew said:

But without tendons and muscles it's not realistic. Duh.

 

how do they use the bathroom ?

[DDD Dad 14251]

 

[APMP 685]

Wife and I were theorizing that NK be flying to KL to add dead Golden company and million civilians to his army. Bronn will see zombie Viserion overhead and tell the Winterfell survivors when he gets there. Survivors will make their way to a new home base. (Dragonstone has all the dragon glass, right?) Maybe they pick up a Howland Reed on the way.

Episode 5 battle is either Winterfell survivors and Iron Born (Yara comes to the fight) laying seige to KL, or last stand against undead at Dragonstone.

[closetojumping 62246]

All of this fucking “he’s flying to King’s Landing” silliness has to go. 

 

[Dark Horse 2263]

It seems like Bran should know where Viserion and NK are from his crow warging. He also seemed convinced that the NK will come for him.

His powers still aren’t really clear to me. He’s still a greenseer, right? And plugged into Weirwood.net? So he can access all of history and has prophetic dreams?

[futureman 22415]

35 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

All of this fucking “he’s flying to King’s Landing” silliness has to go. 

 

I wanna hear your theories about what’s going on in the show.  surely you have some. 

[maninblack 7974]

7 hours ago, huge said:

What about the Azor Ahai prophecy where the prince that was promised has to shove his sword in his loves heart to make it the Lightbringer?

hmmmmm

Think Jon kills himself to save Dany somehow so their child has a mother

[Michael Knight 12898]

8 hours ago, Eastwood said:

To piggyback off of this, Longclaw might not be Lightbringer. Heartsbane was given to Jorah, who will probably fall trying to protect Dany. With the way the writing has been, the show would beat us over the head with something like Heartsbane being plunged into Dany's heart.

theoretically dark sister is out there with meera

[maninblack 7974]

I figured Longclaw was Blackfyre

[Mojo Hand 4580]

3 hours ago, closetojumping said:

All of this fucking “he’s flying to King’s Landing” silliness has to go. 

 

Agreed.  I actually appreciate the instinct, but from the perspective of the NK, it would make no fucking sense.   The NK presumably has no idea who Cersei Lannister is or what is going on in KL.  It would be an interesting strategic move for someone well-acquainted with the ongoing drama in Westeros, but how could the NK be?  He knows where Bran is from the mark, and he knows generally that there are men to the south, so he is heading south.  I doubt he even knows about the Iron Throne.   As Bran said, his goal is to destroy humanity, not win the game of thrones. 

Edited April 24, 2019 by Mojo Hand

[mdmost 42865]

Add to that, he lays waste to Winterfell and that's even more members for his army.

I chuckle about the people online who say that Gendry will have gotten Arya pregnant and their kid could lay claim to the Iron Throne. I mean not everyone in Westeros has super sperm. I mean Sansa got raped repeatedly and didn't get pregnant. Or were they feeding her a shitload of Moon Tea?

[Mojo Hand 4580]

2 hours ago, maninblack said:

Think Jon kills himself to save Dany somehow so their child has a mother

Did I miss something?  Dany is pregnant?  

[maninblack 7974]

My speculation

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Just now, mdmost said:

Add to that, he lays waste to Winterfell and that's even more members for his army.

I chuckle about the people online who say that Gendry will have gotten Arya pregnant and their kid could lay claim to the Iron Throne. I mean not everyone in Westeros has super sperm. I mean Sansa got raped repeatedly and didn't get pregnant. Or were they feeding her a shitload of Moon Tea?

Yeah but Gendry got that strong seed we've heard so much about. 

[Pig Bellmont 8691]

5 hours ago, APMP said:

Wife and I were theorizing that NK be flying to KL to add dead Golden company and million civilians to his army. Bronn will see zombie Viserion overhead and tell the Winterfell survivors when he gets there. Survivors will make their way to a new home base. (Dragonstone has all the dragon glass, right?) Maybe they pick up a Howland Reed on the way.

Episode 5 battle is either Winterfell survivors and Iron Born (Yara comes to the fight) laying seige to KL, or last stand against undead at Dragonstone.

A dragon or dragon fire is going to burn down Kong’s landing, but that mf is burning bc of Cersei or Daenerys. Not the Night King, was go won’t be destroyed until like episode 5 or 6

[CurlyDumps 4439]

I’m guessing the NK wants something in the crypts (in addition to dead Starks).  The NK controls the entire army of the dead, no? So he’s not going to split off and go lone wolf somewhere.

Edited April 24, 2019 by CurlyDumps

[Ted Lange 16052]

I thought it has already been established that Dany can’t have kids 

[bamachine 1230]

15 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

I thought it has already been established that Dany can’t have kids 

Recall Jon dropping the line, "you would trust what someone like that says" line(about the blood witch saying she was now infertile), while they were at the Dragon Pits, last season's finale. I doubt that was just a throwaway line. Then at the end of the episode, they smash for the first time.

[maninblack 7974]

Jon is the prince that was promised. If that doesn't grant you some super sperm not sure what does.

[RPM 26228]

15 hours ago, huge said:

What about the Azor Ahai prophecy where the prince that was promised has to shove his sword in his loves heart to make it the Lightbringer?

hmmmmm

Jaime kills Cersei. Scratch that. Should have read the post above first. I now lean Tyrion kills Cersei.

Edited April 24, 2019 by RPM
read first, then post

[Nice Guy Eddie 13414]

5 hours ago, Ted Lange said:

I thought it has already been established that Dany can’t have kids 

In a land of dragons, magic and a 10,000 year old frozen guy, I’m not sure any medical condition is fully established.

[Burt Macklin 18998]

21 hours ago, SpiralOut said:

That probably involves a quite inferior product though, right?

Sanderson finishing up for Jordan wasn't a huge deal because it isn't like Jordan had a zillion different mysteries, prophecies, and riddles to tie up.  Plus, while Jordan was a very good writer, his prose wasn't something you just had to replicate.  I think it's a much bigger ask to pull that off for Martin. 

There's also the issue of Martin's writing style.  He has referred to himself as a gardener who doesn't really write down plot points and outlines and all the rest.  So, while he may have a general idea of how he wants everything to finish up, I can't for a second believe he has each plotline and character arc mapped out.  So if he croaks I think whoever steps in would be taking a lot of shots in the dark.

You think someone like Sanderson finishing the story in long form would be inferior to what the show writers have put out since they lost their source material? 

[Drew 2331]

Well that's only if you're under the impression that the show writers are trash.  Not as good as GRRM, of course...but the way people talk you'd think someone that wrote some Disney/Nick kids show was writing this.

[AUS-97HORN 11682]

a few that made me chuckle