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2019 Property Tax Values are Out

Texas Jeff

By Texas Jeff
in Daily Texan

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Dutch

Dutch 4465

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, JSB said:

What the hell is going on in Collin County?

Motherfucking CAD is buttfucking us with barbed wire and chalk.  Imma still protest, cuz 'Merica. Get my comps, take an afternoon off work, and drive to the CAD. The best part of protesting is when the bastards on the appraisal board, supposedly "unbiased citizens,"  ignore your comps and go with whatever the CAD dude says.

PropertyTax.io is a good site for getting comps.  You have to pay for the report ($30 IIRC), but it generates a good list of comps and makes adjustments based on acreage, pool, etc.

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JSB

JSB 677

Posted
Posted

The last two years I hired a firm to do the protest for me, and they got it dropped a very minimal amount. Curious what you guys think regarding cost/value of hiring someone. I kind of wonder if the CAD tends to pay more attention to actual owners that show up, or is it worth it to hire a pro.

Thoughts?

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23469

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, JSB said:

The last two years I hired a firm to do the protest for me, and they got it dropped a very minimal amount. Curious what you guys think regarding cost/value of hiring someone. I kind of wonder if the CAD tends to pay more attention to actual owners that show up, or is it worth it to hire a pro.

Thoughts?

If you have a strong submission, e.g. you can show up with your HUD statement and get a significant drop, do it yourself.  If it requires much work, comps, etc outsource that shit.  I have had fairly good luck with protax and I let them just run my file every year and pay them their percentage cut of the decrease.  

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Murfdogg21

Murfdogg21 4412

Posted
Posted

I’d love to be in legal arguments with these assholes about how they are inequitable. When you have the same floor plan from the same builder in two different neighborhoods, but the improvement increases significantly more on one than the other, when any differences in value should be based on location, ie land value not improvements.

Or in my case of my last house, within the same part of town there were two other houses with identical floor plan/builder. One owner treated their yard like trash. One owner was so-so on how they kept up their outside area. I planted a tree and kept the yard mowed like a golf course. My values were always >$20k more than the other two and I always had to waste my time protesting, and they’d never come all the way down. But if I got it down below whatever my 10% assessed increase for homestead, there wasn’t a point in fighting it further. 

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hornian

hornian 5217

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, HRSchenker said:

I'm probably not going to protest since the county won't change my land value. Is there really a point in protesting if your assessed value is still less than what you paid for the property?

Yes. If you can get it down then you pay less taxes. That’s the point. 

Just hire one of the companies (I use Five Stone, others use ProTax), you only pay them if it gets reduced. 

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23469

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, HRSchenker said:

I'm probably not going to protest since the county won't change my land value. Is there really a point in protesting if your assessed value is still less than what you paid for the property?

Rule 1. Always protest

Rule 2. See Rule 1

 

In reality you probably don't have an argument for a reduction, and one of the companies might not argue your file.  But still, always protest your taxes. As stated up thread, it is the American way. 

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Victor Lazlo

Victor Lazlo 1776

Posted
Posted

I use  O’Connor and Associates to protest every year. 

They’ve already had the hearing, and instead of an $18,000 increase for 2019, it was knocked back to a $6,000 increase. 

Received their bill, which they claim is 50% of the tax savings. Once again, I made a call to point out that they didn’t use my homestead exemption in their calculations, and once again, they are going to generate a corrected bill. 

This year the difference isn’t a large amount of money, but to me it’s the principle of the thing. It’s the 3rd year out of the last 5 that they’ve won for me, and every time they’ve had to correct their bill. 

I imagine most people don’t run the numbers and don’t catch it, so the company is most likely taking in millions in fees that they really shouldn’t. 

 

TLDR: after receiving a bill from one of the tax protest companies, run the numbers yourself to see if they are actually saving you what they say they are. 

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Catpfish

Catpfish 618

Posted
Posted

A little confused here...why wouldn't they just take the amount of the valuation reduction times the tax rate and take their percentage of that?  Homestead would not factor into that since the reduction is across the board.

 

 

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13511

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Catpfish said:

A little confused here...why wouldn't they just take the amount of the valuation reduction times the tax rate and take their percentage of that?  Homestead would not factor into that since the reduction is across the board.

Most services charge a percentage of the tax amount that you're saving.  They're going to play dumb when you point out that you're not saving as much as they say you are because of other factors.

Personally I've found the best strategy (for me) is to wait a couple of years and protest at that time. Let them raise my valuation over 2-3 years and then come in to remove it all. when I can easily prove they are 50K too high, they realize they don't have a leg to stand on, and can be beaten down more.

Once I did the homework where I demonstrated their comparables weren't comparable.  And I documented ~10 comparable sales supporting  my argument.  After we walked thru the first 2 comparables, the reviewer just asked me what I wanted, and he gave it to me.

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Catpfish

Catpfish 618

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Most services charge a percentage of the tax amount that you're saving.  They're going to play dumb when you point out that you're not saving as much as they say you are because of other factors.

Personally I've found the best strategy (for me) is to wait a couple of years and protest at that time. Let them raise my valuation over 2-3 years and then come in to remove it all. when I can easily prove they are 50K too high, they realize they don't have a leg to stand on, and can be beaten down more.

Once I did the homework where I demonstrated their comparables weren't comparable.  And I documented ~10 comparable sales supporting  my argument.  After we walked thru the first 2 comparables, the reviewer just asked me what I wanted, and he gave it to me.

I understand the process, I've been through it several times.

My point is simply that if the protest company saves you $20K off of your valuation, all of the different valuations used by the various taxing authorities will go down by $20K whether they are affected by homestead exemption or not.  Wouldn't it be easier to simply multiply the valuation savings times the tax rate to determine the amount saved in taxes?

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Victor Lazlo

Victor Lazlo 1776

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Catpfish said:

A little confused here...why wouldn't they just take the amount of the valuation reduction times the tax rate and take their percentage of that?  Homestead would not factor into that since the reduction is across the board.

 

 

I pay taxes to 10 different taxing authorities, and receive homeowners exemptions (in the form of lowered assessed value) from 7 of them, thus lowering the amount of taxes paid to those authorities.

In my example with O’Connor, they are assuming that I will be paying the tax rate of each taxing authority on 100% of the assed value. When in fact I won’t be. 

They bill based on no homeowners exemptions. 

Edited by Victor Lazlo
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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13511

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Catpfish said:

I understand the process, I've been through it several times.

My point is simply that if the protest company saves you $20K off of your valuation, all of the different valuations used by the various taxing authorities will go down by $20K whether they are affected by homestead exemption or not.  Wouldn't it be easier to simply multiply the valuation savings times the tax rate to determine the amount saved in taxes?

This is a message board and you would be surprised that many people don't understand how property tax works. 

Yes, multiplying 2 numbers would be an easy way to calculate a fee.

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Pasken

Pasken 1309

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

This is a message board and you would be surprised that many people don't understand how property tax works. 

Yes, multiplying 2 numbers would be an easy way to calculate a fee.

And how many people assume all of their property tax goes to the city when the vast majority goes to their local school district. 

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Catpfish

Catpfish 618

Posted
Posted

Yeah...about TCAD and access to MLS.

Just got an email that the company running the Austin MLS, CoreLogic...well, here is part of the email

 

Quote

We’ve been made aware that our MLS vendor, CoreLogic, may have violated its contractual obligations with ACTRIS by selling MLS data to TCAD in 2018. Once we learned of this situation, we demanded CoreLogic cease sending any data to TCAD and terminate their relationship with TCAD. As of today, we have been informed by CoreLogic that TCAD is no longer receiving ACTRIS data through CoreLogic. CoreLogic has instructed TCAD to destroy previously shared data and provide formal proof to CoreLogic of the destruction by May 30th

Good luck with that

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Catpfish

Catpfish 618

Posted
Posted (edited)

Further on in the email

 

Quote

Unauthorized access to proprietary MLS data by an appraisal district is unacceptable. We are exploring all options to stop this abuse and ensure TCAD is prevented from misusing ACTRIS data. Actions will be taken to ensure full accountability from all parties enabling the unauthorized exploitation of MLS data.
 
You are an important partner in our fight. If you or your clients believe MLS data is being used as evidence during the appraisal appeal process in or out of Travis County, please provide the details of your experience at databreach@abor.com. Please remain on the lookout for additional messages about this issue. More updates will be forthcoming as we identify our next steps.

 

This could include Williamson, Milam, Lee, Bastrop, Hay etc. especially if you have a property that spans county lines and Travis county handles the taxation

Edited by Catpfish
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NeverMarryAStripper

NeverMarryAStripper 21904

Posted
Posted (edited)

They should just put property tax valuations on the honor system.  Every year you are mailed a form where you designate the value for property tax purposes.  The only caveat is that if anyone offers to buy your house for an amount more than 10% over the tax valuation you must sell it to them.

Edited by NeverMarryAStripper
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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13511

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

They should just put property tax valuations on the honor system.  Every year you are mailed a form where you designate the value for property tax purposes.  The only caveat is that if anyone offers to buy your house for an amount more than 10% over the tax valuation you must sell it to them.

Funny how people not looking to sell undervalue their home, but they stop complaining about appraisal district valuations when it comes down to selling.  Without a doubt there are many times that valuations are too high especially in a down economy but many times valuations trail skyrocketing prices.

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luke duke

luke duke 6413

Posted
Posted
They should just put property tax valuations on the honor system.  Every year you are mailed a form where you designate the value for property tax purposes.  The only caveat is that if anyone offers to buy your house for an amount more than 10% over the tax valuation you must sell it to them.


I’d do that if they cut the rate in half.
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hornbri

hornbri 1398

Posted
Posted
On 5/2/2019 at 10:48 AM, Catpfish said:

I understand the process, I've been through it several times.

My point is simply that if the protest company saves you $20K off of your valuation, all of the different valuations used by the various taxing authorities will go down by $20K whether they are affected by homestead exemption or not.  Wouldn't it be easier to simply multiply the valuation savings times the tax rate to determine the amount saved in taxes?

I have had the situation where my valuation went up over 10%, the company got it reduced but it was still over a 10% increase so I saved nothing on taxes and owed nothing. 

Same thing would be if your valuation went up 15% and they knocked it down to 8%. Your tax savings are only from 10-8% so that’s all you should pay a % on. 

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heinhorn

heinhorn 16

Posted
Posted

Hello there -  a  few questions for the class here.  Just got my love letter from HCAD this week.  We flooded during Harvey.  Tore that bitch down and rebuilt.  We moved in in March.  The fully assessed a house for 4600+ SF as of January 1.  The house didn't even have bricks on 1/1/19 and is about 3600 SF.  Where the fuck do they get that number?  If they house wasn't built nor in a livable condition on 1/1/19, then they can only assess the land, correct? 

I'm going to protest this myself as I have had terrible luck hiring companies to do so in the past, but looking for some guidance on the above questions.   I used Protax in the past and they did jack shit.  Last year the settled at the informal hearing (I'm still SMDH about that) when HCAD gave no reduction in land value in 2018 vs 2017 (post vs pre Harvey) and there were numerous contiguous properties on the market for less than the assessed value.

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Posted
Posted
On 4/30/2019 at 2:30 PM, Anastasis said:

If you have a strong submission, e.g. you can show up with your HUD statement and get a significant drop, do it yourself.  If it requires much work, comps, etc outsource that shit.  I have had fairly good luck with protax and I let them just run my file every year and pay them their percentage cut of the decrease.  

I didn't know these services even existed.

Hell, these guys probably do the initial assessments for the tax appraisers...  That would be full circle racketeering.

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Catpfish

Catpfish 618

Posted
Posted
On 5/21/2019 at 3:26 PM, heinhorn said:

Hello there -  a  few questions for the class here.  Just got my love letter from HCAD this week.  We flooded during Harvey.  Tore that bitch down and rebuilt.  We moved in in March.  The fully assessed a house for 4600+ SF as of January 1.  The house didn't even have bricks on 1/1/19 and is about 3600 SF.  Where the fuck do they get that number?  If they house wasn't built nor in a livable condition on 1/1/19, then they can only assess the land, correct? 

I'm going to protest this myself as I have had terrible luck hiring companies to do so in the past, but looking for some guidance on the above questions.   I used Protax in the past and they did jack shit.  Last year the settled at the informal hearing (I'm still SMDH about that) when HCAD gave no reduction in land value in 2018 vs 2017 (post vs pre Harvey) and there were numerous contiguous properties on the market for less than the assessed value.

No, they won't assess only on the land.  It should be assessed on a percentage of completion type of calculation.  If the home was 75% done, then they would give you a 75% of the finished valuation

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Larry T. Spider

Larry T. Spider 1746

Posted
Posted

Not Travis county but this seems like the best place for this question. My wife successfully protested our property taxes in Wilco this year so she took a look at her parents house in a suburb of Houston. On their website you can drill down to individual features of the house and how they are valued for your taxes. 

The appraisal district added a pool to their features with an attached value of about 8k roughly 10 years ago. They have no pool and have never had one. They contacted the appraisal district who will take the pool off but not pay them anything back for the previous years stating that it’s up to you to check.

Although this was sloppy by the appraisal district, I agree that there is probably no recourse at this point. Other people want me to look more into it. I was told there would be no math but it seems like it’s about $1,800 we are talking about over the 10 year period, which sucks but is nowhere near lawyer time.

What says surly?

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bluto

bluto 4922

Posted
Posted

You need to file a '2525c' appeal that will allow you to go back on the current tax year and the 4 years prior. http://www.dallascad.org/ViewPDFs.aspx?type=1&id=\\DCAD.ORG\WEB\WEBDATA\WEBFORMS\other\2525c.pdf use that link and edit the heading or google '2525c texas property tax' and there should be a form easily found. You want to appeal "the inclusion of property that does not exist in the form or at the location described in the appraisal roll" under 2525c. If successful, and it should be since a pool is viewable from satellite imagery, then a refund should be issued for prior years paid (make sure all the years you appeal had their taxes paid on time). It'll probably take them a while to schedule the hearing for it. 

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bluto

bluto 4922

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Posted

For those of you in Travis Co be prepared to get effed again with their procedures... I’m betting protax had worse results this year than in the past as Travis CAD almost entirely did away with the informal hearing level of appeal/negotiations (the time when owners and agents sit down with a cad appraiser to negotiate directly). Now everything goes straight to the ARB level, and those ppl have been trained by the CAD and are a rubber stamp despite their claim of independence/3rd party. Tracks CAD just approved their budget to cover the extra cost of this increased ARB presence for next year.

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ZB'Tejas

ZB'Tejas 593

Posted
Posted

Can move this to 2020 once out but heads up for ProTax users. Got this email from them about how they are modifying how they are paid and looks to be adding at mandatory $150 to the process that can be deducted out of the performance fee.

 

Quote

Your Texas Protax team has taken a look back at the 2019 year with careful consideration and come to the conclusion that in order to provide the level of service that our clients have become accustomed to, we can no longer operate under our current fee structure.

We have always prided ourselves on transparency and the reality is over the last few years the property tax protest process has changed dramatically.  Appraisal Districts are under unprecedented pressure from taxing entities and the legislature in relation to protest timelines, and other appraisal district day to day operations.  As the legislature enacts new law and appraisal districts continue to change their practices, we must also adapt our business model to better serve our clients.

In order to meet the new growing demands of the appraisal districts, we have had to increase our internal resources to assure that your protest is being researched and presented in a manner that will deliver the maximum successful outcome for you. Beginning in 2020, in conjunction with your current performance based fee, Texas Protax will begin charging an Advanced Administrative Fee of $150 per parcel per year.  This Advanced Administrative Fee will be credited towards (or deducted from) the performance based fee at the conclusion of the protest process.  

Additionally, for properties with a homestead exemption or an agricultural appraisal we will be charging a smaller performance based fee for value reductions that do not affect the taxable liability (i.e. reductions on capped properties or properties with special valuation). 

We will be sending out new agreements over the next few weeks through our DocuSign system reflecting the revised pricing structure. 

 

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