Breaking news - Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris on fire

[Chad Fuck 18158]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

He's talking about the renovations in the 40's I'm guessing which for sure would have been riveted.

It's a joke about AB being old.  

C'mon man.

 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

NIce pun, brah!

Actually there's been some kind of spire there from the earliest days, but they kept getting messed up/breaking off (much like the guy in Holy Grail who built 6 castles on top of each previous sinking castle).  Before the spire was reconstructed and re-positioned in the mid-19th Century, it had blown off in a bad windstorm sometime in the 18th Century and nothing was sitting up there except for patches in the roof where it sat.  So it's fair to consider this latest spire pretty much Victorian.

I think they ought to put like a rotating laser on it that shoots holy imagery on nearby buildings, but that's just me.

Bet they can buy some Planet Hollywood globes for cheap......

[elfenix 34754]

13 hours ago, BlueGreySky said:

The tower is close to 4 miles away from Notre Dame.   That seems shopped.

those 3 boxes in the foreground are the air conditioner units on top of the greenish roofed building behind the opera bastille, which is a mile away.  that's just a really long lens and perspective compression.  the tower is 2.6 miles away from notre dame.  if you're on top of the tower at the chateau de vincennes (3.9 miles away) with enough reach (lens + pixels to crop with), it'll look like that.

Edited April 16, 2019 by elfenix

[huge 3831]

10 minutes ago, DoobieWah said:

TP

 

But wanted to add:

I doubt it will be rebuilt as a religious structure. Ultimately it will be rebuilt as a museum. There are  just not enough practicing Catholics left in Paris to bother with the expense of rebuilding as a sanctuary.

 

My $0.02, but I would love to be wrong.

 

And I'm not even Christian, much less Catholic.

That's not how this is going to work.  If you think the Catholic Church would allow that you haven't been paying attention.

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

14 minutes ago, DoobieWah said:

TP

 

But wanted to add:

I doubt it will be rebuilt as a religious structure. Ultimately it will be rebuilt as a museum. There are  just not enough practicing Catholics left in Paris to bother with the expense of rebuilding as a sanctuary.

 

My $0.02, but I would love to be wrong.

 

And I'm not even Christian, much less Catholic.

It is still very much a church - well attended masses pretty much every morning, and jammed on Sundays. You need to be there 3 or so hours early to get in for the Easter service. 

I have been in there as a "tourist" when they gave you the choice of leaving or attending service.

[wood 11766]

9 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Romans built roads still in use after 2,000 years.   

TxDOT can’t build a stretch of 35 between Austin and Dallas that’s good for more than 2 years.  

Yep, & COTA spent a shit-ton of money on a racing surface that's falling apart after just 7 years.

[DoobieWah 1535]

I've been wrong once before so it's possible it could happen again.

 

We'll see.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19307]

Sounds like the organ escaped significant damage as well.  There are some pieces of stained glass in there that date back to the 1200s.  I hope those pieces survived.  

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, wood said:

Yep, & COTA spent a shit-ton of money on a racing surface that's falling apart after just 7 years.

Well to be fair sandal traffic and donkey carts on 6" thick granite cobbles aren't the same thing as  2,000 HP traffic on a maybe 4" asphalt road way affected by temperature.

[jimmyjazz 47238]

1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

And yeah fiberglass at present can't replace long span steel I believe, but I can see a day when fiberglass shaped sub structures will be used to greater effect.

Yeah, an S-glass composite would probably be lucky to achieve a tensile modulus similar to aluminum (1/3 that of steel).  Carbon graphic composites, on the other hand.  (I have no idea what the long life concerns would be for either the fiber or the epoxy when buried in concrete, but it should certainly be possible to get a similar stiffness (that's what your Mom said)).

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Yeah, an S-glass composite would probably be lucky to achieve a tensile modulus similar to aluminum (1/3 that of steel).  Carbon graphic composites, on the other hand.  (I have no idea what the long life concerns would be for either the fiber or the epoxy when buried in concrete, but it should certainly be possible to get a similar stiffness (that's what your Mom said)).

Yeah, I think There's way to go before it takes over for rebar, but I think the future will see a carbon fiber/fiberglass matrix of some kind replace it.  Seems like Seismic zones would really benefit from that type of design leap.

['stache 22145]

TP
 
But wanted to add:
I doubt it will be rebuilt as a religious structure. Ultimately it will be rebuilt as a museum. There are  just not enough practicing Catholics left in Paris to bother with the expense of rebuilding as a sanctuary.
 
My $0.02, but I would love to be wrong.
 
And I'm not even Christian, much less Catholic.

I think it’s already functionally both. Unlike most churches which are owned by the Vatican, Notre Dame is owned by the French government for use by the Catholic Church. I imagine it gets more tourists than worshipers or its probably close. Even as a “museum” of sorts it’s more impressive for it to be a functioning church. I’m sure many non-Catholics attend service just for the interest factor.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13740]

After the Brazilian museum fire last year and now Notre Dame, hopefully older landmarks or newer buildings with old artifacts are revising their fire avoidance or containment plans. 

[LongestHorn 772]

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/06/150622-andrew-tallon-notre-dame-cathedral-laser-scan-art-history-medieval-gothic/

Cool Vid

Edited April 16, 2019 by LongestHorn

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20932]

 

[Surly Bevo 25759]

Obligatory Surly is Obligatory

[NowThis 931]

do these places have insurance? How do government buildings get private insurance or is that all covered after the fact by tax dollars?

[MNLonghornFUKM 8985]

1 minute ago, NowThis said:

do these places have insurance? How do government buildings get private insurance or is that all covered after the fact by tax dollars?

Its grandfathered in. 'ye olde blacksmithe insurance-Paris division

[BlueGreySky 1082]

8 minutes ago, NowThis said:

do these places have insurance? How do government buildings get private insurance or is that all covered after the fact by tax dollars?

In France I am sure it's different since I believe the government technically owns ND.  In America most parishes/diocese are self-insured.  We had an arson light a shelf of hymnals on fire in the back of our church 6 years ago.  The fire was small and contained and only damaged the shelf and the wall between the interior of the church and the lobby... but between cleaning up the smoke damage, replacing carpets with tile, etc etc it took us 2 years to recover from a relatively sequestered fire that only burned for less than 10 mins before the FD arrived.  I can only imagine the road ahead for ND and the rebuild. 

[NowThis 931]

3 minutes ago, BlueGreySky said:

In France I am sure it's different since I believe the government technically owns ND.  In America most parishes/diocese are self-insured.  We had an arson light a shelf of hymnals on fire in the back of our church 6 years ago.  The fire was small and contained and only damaged the shelf and the wall between the interior of the church and the lobby... but between cleaning up the smoke damage, replacing carpets with tile, etc etc it took us 2 years to recover from a relatively sequestered fire that only burned for less than 10 mins before the FD arrived.  I can only imagine the road ahead for ND and the rebuild. 

why not get commercial insurance? 

[BlueGreySky 1082]

1 minute ago, NowThis said:

why not get commercial insurance? 

Rather than try to put it in my words, I copied this from the Diocese of Scranton website that does a good job explaining it...

Such a program (self-insurance) demands an increased awareness and responsibility for safety conditions, and the correction of improper, hazardous or unsafe situations.  The benefits of such awareness will be a reduction in total claims, and continued savings in the cost of insurance to all parishes and agencies.  We maintain very high levels of Self-Insurance Retention. Above these levels, we have purchased various levels of Excess Insurance to cover against large catastrophes. Our program must, therefore, be managed in accordance with the recognized principles and practices of underwriting and claims adjustment that is required under the terms of our excess policies.

ADVANTAGES TO EACH PARISH
⦁ All Risk Coverage
⦁ No co-insurance requirement
⦁ All Properties fully protected
⦁ Newly acquired properties automatically insured
⦁ Liability exposures fully protected
⦁ All parishes organizations and activities protected
⦁ Automatic coverage for Parish and Diocesan events
⦁ Favorable costs

[Jiggy-Z 3509]

30 minutes ago, BlueGreySky said:

Rather than try to put it in my words, I copied this from the Diocese of Scranton website that does a good job explaining it...

Such a program (self-insurance) demands an increased awareness and responsibility for safety conditions, and the correction of improper, hazardous or unsafe situations.  The benefits of such awareness will be a reduction in total claims, and continued savings in the cost of insurance to all parishes and agencies.  We maintain very high levels of Self-Insurance Retention. Above these levels, we have purchased various levels of Excess Insurance to cover against large catastrophes. Our program must, therefore, be managed in accordance with the recognized principles and practices of underwriting and claims adjustment that is required under the terms of our excess policies.

ADVANTAGES TO EACH PARISH
⦁ All Risk Coverage
⦁ No co-insurance requirement
⦁ All Properties fully protected
⦁ Newly acquired properties automatically insured
⦁ Liability exposures fully protected
⦁ All parishes organizations and activities protected
⦁ Automatic coverage for Parish and Diocesan events
⦁ Favorable costs

Self insurance talk not going away.

[Guest Lobo]

I am just thankful to have known so many people that felt it necessary to bombard me with their tales today of catholic pilgrimages to this important French cathedral.   My father was A German Lutheran.  My mother is a Spanish Jew.  And I’ve Never once asked about your trip to Paris...so what about that makes you think I’ll give Fuck one today?   

It is a beautiful building but I don’t care about it or your vacation or your faith.  

That said, I got $20 says it’s done before La Sagrada Familia.  

Edited April 16, 2019 by Lobo

[ztejas 44236]

2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Yeah, an S-glass composite would probably be lucky to achieve a tensile modulus similar to aluminum (1/3 that of steel).  Carbon graphic composites, on the other hand.  (I have no idea what the long life concerns would be for either the fiber or the epoxy when buried in concrete, but it should certainly be possible to get a similar stiffness (that's what your Mom said)).

 

[BlueGreySky 1082]

I'll take that bet @Lobo. Sagrada Familia is in the home-stretch.  Notre Dame could be a 100 year project.

 

[Sbbruin 22145]

6 hours ago, NoRagrets said:

To think, this all could have been prevented with some water planes...

Apparently they considered it, but were concerned it would have caused complete collapse and opted against it. 

[HiggyBaby 2619]

NSIAP

[ABSR 5370]

3 hours ago, Liquor and Poker said:

I have been in there as a "tourist" when they gave you the choice of leaving or attending service bursting into flames.

Fixed for Surly.

[Longhorn94 2501]

30 minutes ago, BlueGreySky said:

I'll take that bet @Lobo. Sagrada Familia is in the home-stretch.  Notre Dame could be a 100 year project.

 

Macron says it will be rebuilt within 5 years.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, Longhorn94 said:

Macron says it will be rebuilt within 5 years.

He's gonna bring in Equadoran and Guatemalan workers ?  Those Frenchies work 4 days a week tops....

[InkaUtexas 26920]

5 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

He's gonna bring in Equadoran and Guatemalan workers ?  Those Frenchies work 4 days a week tops....

Labor already there. Does not need to import anyone. Algerians, Moroccans and Sudanese. Maybe one or two Ghanaians as supervisors. A marvelous plan 

 

And it is Ecuadoran. 

Edited April 16, 2019 by InkaUtexas

[Longhorn94 2501]

And hopefully they will fireproof the roof structure this time like they did when they rebuilt the roof for ND in Reims.

[jimmyjazz 47238]

Sagrada Familia is the Mopac Express Lane of cathedral projects.

[South Austin 53232]

1 hour ago, Lobo said:

My mother is a Spanish Jew.  

Eat in good health and Happy El Malaguena to you!

[Guest Lobo]

Nope, we are Sephardics on that side.  I piss on Malaga.  

[gecko 1104]

[mycox 587]

^^^
Tell them to donate to the renovation fund as well. Then see what they say.

Edited April 16, 2019 by mycox

[Parliament 14599]

1 hour ago, Longhorn94 said:

Macron says it will be rebuilt within 5 years.

Same as the WTC.  Take you time, Guys.  Take your time and do it right.

[Updawg 2387]

Macron says it will be rebuilt within 5 years.

Sweet. Around the same time as we get back to the moon

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19307]

1 hour ago, Longhorn94 said:

Macron says it will be rebuilt within 5 years.

I saw an estimate of 10-15 years for total restoration.  But hey, that is significantly less than the 200 year original construction timeline.

[Rimbo 27053]

Here's a fantastic write-up on Notre Dame de Paris from the Quartz Obsession.

 

Quote

“In wanting to give her a second youth, we have perhaps destroyed her,” a technician who worked on Notre Dame’s current restoration told the New Yorker. This is one of the tragedies: The hard-won rehab of the 856-year-old building led to the fire.

But the rehab was deeply necessary. A Time magazine piece from two years ago detailed the reasons: Simple decay had done its damage, but so had modernity. “Pollution is the biggest culprit,” France’s chief historical-monument architect said. Bernard Fonquernie, the architect who led a 1992 restoration, told the New York Times the same thing: “It shows that in our harsh civilization, stone has become very ephemeral.” The famous restoration prompted by Victor Hugo’s work was also a problem, with its use of cement and low-grade stone in place of unattainable materials.

France had been spending €2 million ($2.3 million) on it annually, but that paled in comparison to the €164 million ($185 million) estimated for necessary repairs, which the Archdiocese of Paris has been raising privately. (The good news is that the fire immediately opened billionaires’ pockets.)

If there’s another silver lining, it’s that Notre Dame is, even with its grandeur, kind of a mutt, built and restored by countless architects over the centuries. Its restoration will have to respect its imperfections. “It looks so balanced, so symmetric… much of the building is crooked,” Fonquernie told the Times. “Horizontal and vertical lines were not necessarily respected. The wall faces are not straight. We can see the designers were masters, but the execution was sometimes primitive.” Perhaps that is its grandeur, with the imperfections speaking to its age, the many hands that have touched it, and its hard life as an urban church.

...

Hugo wasn’t the only literary great to draw inspiration from the cathedral. Marcel Proust, who is most famous for the six early-20th-century texts that comprise In Search of Lost Time, was also deeply impressed. “Notre Dame de Paris was spellbinding for Proust. He was even known to have thrown a fur-lined overcoat on over his nightshirt and to have stood in front of it for two hours in order to receive fresh inspiration from the portal of Saint Anne,” writes Mary Bergman in On Looking Back One Learns to See.

Bergman notes that Sigmund Freud, the German psychiatrist and influential writer, was also awed by Notre Dame. The first time he saw it in 1885, Freud said he had “a sensation I never had before.” Thereafter, he returned “every free afternoon” to be in its majestic presence. “I have never seen anything so movingly serious and somber,” Freud said.

...

Many details of the building’s original construction were lost to time until art historian Andrew Tallon applied a modern technology to the ancient structure in 2015. The Vassar College professor, who died in 2018 at the age of 49, used laser scanners to collect more than a billion pinpoint-accurate measurements of the cathedral, then wove the scans together into a 3D panoramic rendering. His work revealed the flaws in the original structure—Tallon told National Geographicthat the cathedral’s western end was a “train wreck,” with columns and aisles misaligned from shoddy craftsmanship. In some places, builders simply incorporated existing structures instead of removing them.

 

 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20932]

 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19307]

42 minutes ago, mycox said:

^^^
Tell them to donate to the renovation fund as well. Then see what they say.

I think a lot of people will donate.  I know I will.  I am currently looking at the various ways to donate and trying to pick which one.

[Trey3216 15452]

2 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I think a lot of people will donate.  I know I will.  I am currently looking at the various ways to donate and trying to pick which one.

Just go the "I'll buy 2 or 3 new LV purses/luggage sets" route.  High impact

[mycox 587]

5 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I think a lot of people will donate.  I know I will.  I am currently looking at the various ways to donate and trying to pick which one.

Good for everyone who donates, but I think $800 milion could go to a better cause.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8985]

Just go the "I'll buy 2 or 3 new LV purses/luggage sets" route.  High impact

And it's a write off.

[52-80 19377]

5 minutes ago, mycox said:

Good for everyone who donates, but I think $800 milion could go to a better cause.

you mean its not a good idea to donate money towards a church that belongs to one of the wealthiest organizations in the world, that also pays no taxes?

[Okie State 3889]

I think it's a good idea that people donate their money to whatever cause they feel is appropriate.

[mbtex 697]

6 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

you mean its not a good idea to donate money towards a church that belongs to one of the wealthiest organizations in the world, that also pays no taxes?

Church belongs to France. Catholic Church pays to use it.

[thrillhammer 686]

18 minutes ago, mycox said:

Good for everyone who donates, but I think $800 milion could go to a better cause.

you've obviously never been, nor are you a history, art, or architecture buff.  this is a huge loss to the world.