Great American Coin Hunt? April 21-27

[Armybrat 40761]

NTB is correct. Collectors can be a fussy bunch.

As stated earlier, my dad collected mostly Spanish/Mexican Pillar Dollars (Pieces of Eight) from primarily the 18th Century with a few from the 16th & 19th.

I had this silver bezel custom made for this extra piece so Mrs. Brat could wear it. The coin is not the exact same size as a silver Dollar, so the jeweler had to make it by hand. Damn thing cost $100. So much for a "free" Piece of Eight. lulz

 

 

 

[Armybrat 40761]

And you never know when you might stumble across a bargain. Dad was in a Monterrey, Mexico coin shop 50 years ago and saw this  Wells Fargo commemorative medal sitting in a tray with dozens of other odd pieces..... 15 Pesos ($1.20 US then) each. Seems Wells Fargo had several thousand of these struck to celebrate their 50th Anniversary (1852-1902) and gave one to each of their employees. This one was missing the little presentation box. The other side is deeply sculpted with a vintage railroad train. Beautiful thing, IMO. There is usually one or two up for auction on eBay. I think Dad's old valuation he marked on it was a bit optimistic.

The junk silver Dollar is just for size comparison. Mrs. Brat "won" that coin from an antique slot machine in a Virginia City tourist trap bar 25 years ago.

 

Edited April 20, 2019 by Armybrat

[Not that Bob 735]

That Wells Fargo is a beauty, Brat. That leads to another interesting, to me, area which is bronze commemorative medals. Sometimes I browse them on ebay and it sometimes leads me down a history rabbit hole. Who the heck were Marie Louise and Ferdinand and why did Bulgaria issue a medal in their honor in 1893? I can waste plenty of time looking these things up.   

[futureman 22438]

On 4/18/2019 at 5:31 PM, futureman said:

 

@RDCanecutter I’m looking at the $2.50 golds here ...

1909:  https://www.usacoinbook.com/coins/3676/gold-2-50-quarter-eagle/indian-head/1909-P/

1912:  https://www.usacoinbook.com/coins/3680/gold-2-50-quarter-eagle/indian-head/1912-P/

for the 1861 there are three listed on this page:  https://www.usacoinbook.com/coins/gold-2-50-quarter-eagle/coronet-head/ but none of the three seem to have the same border as the one in my pic.

I can’t find a listing for the gold dollar.  also can’t tell if it’s 1856 or ‘36 but neither of those dates show up on the chart.

I don’t know how to “grade” these coins.  based on these pics do you think they would qualify as at least “very fine (VF)”?

Edited April 20, 2019 by futureman

[Not that Bob 735]

Look for 

1854-1856 1 Dollar Gold Indian Type II

...maybe...

[futureman 22438]

nm...

Edited April 20, 2019 by futureman

[futureman 22438]

28 minutes ago, Not that Bob said:

Look for 

1854-1856 1 Dollar Gold Indian Type II

...maybe...

yeah I didn’t think head on the 1856 was an indian.  upside down threw me off. 

[BottleRocket 644]

This isn't really on topic but I didn't know where else to put it.  My grandmother passed away in Fort Worth last year and I ended up with boxes of old cards, letters, pictures, and books that belonged to my Grandfather. I've posted here before that my family traces back to the Burleson family of Texas frontier fame.  Anyway, hidden in a picture frame was this folded up bill.  It's not in very good shape and pretty fragile.  It's a "Government of Texas" issued 10 dollar bill dated 1838 and signed by Sam Houston.  

I also found this Mexican money.

 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2019 by BottleRocket

[futureman 22438]

that’s pretty cool, bob

[Armybrat 40761]

Nice treasures your grandma left behind for you to discover.

[RDCanecutter 26348]

7 hours ago, futureman said:

@RDCanecutter

I can’t find a listing for the gold dollar.  also can’t tell if it’s 1856 or ‘36 but neither of those dates show up on the chart.

I don’t know how to “grade” these coins.  based on these pics do you think they would qualify as at least “very fine (VF)”?

It's an 1856, they didn't make an 1836 (I found this out by digging around in my book after you posted the photo. I ain't even any kind of expert on US gold.)

On the chart, make sure you look under gold dollars, it's there, you might have been under silver dollars.

Will post more deep thoughts after devouring steak.

[RDCanecutter 26348]

OK, on your 1 dollar gold coin, my book says:

Very Fine: Feather-curl tips on headrdess outlined, but details worn.

Extremely Fine: Slight wear on feather curls of headdress.

About Uncirculated: Trace of wear on feathers, nearly full luster.

NB: This is all gibberish to me, the next coin I grade will be my first. But if it helps a Sulrster in any way, so much the better.

[Not that Bob 735]

No grading input from me. I was only a minor hobbyist many years ago. I never sold. I just bought things that interested me, and that I could afford...although I probably paid too much. It was about fun for me, not profit. The suggestions posted above by RD look like a good place to start. McBride's may be able to help, but don't sell unless you are sure.  

[RDCanecutter 26348]

This is more how I roll, yo:

Top row: First bullion coin that I know of in Mexico, 2nd = the coin that Humphrey Bogart was begging for in "Treasure of the Sierra Madre" (prolly keep you alive for a couple-three days, 3rd = about 60 bucks gold, smaller than a dime. Doesn't matter what the date says, they are probably still cranking them out.

Bottom 4: brass and copper, would have been clutched in small hands to get something to eat. 20 centavo might have been Frida Kahlo's bus fare, if she dared set foot back on one.

 

[gsoda3 3238]

OK, on your 1 dollar gold coin, my book says:
Very Fine: Feather-curl tips on headrdess outlined, but details worn.
Extremely Fine: Slight wear on feather curls of headdress.
About Uncirculated: Trace of wear on feathers, nearly full luster.
NB: This is all gibberish to me, the next coin I grade will be my first. But if it helps a Sulrster in any way, so much the better.

What book is this? And would you have a rec for a book like that for English coins going back to the Georgian era?

[RDCanecutter 26348]

Just now, gsoda3 said:

15 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

OK, on your 1 dollar gold coin, my book says:
Very Fine: Feather-curl tips on headrdess outlined, but details worn.
Extremely Fine: Slight wear on feather curls of headdress.
About Uncirculated: Trace of wear on feathers, nearly full luster.
NB: This is all gibberish to me, the next coin I grade will be my first. But if it helps a Sulrster in any way, so much the better.

What book is this? And would you have a rec for a book like that for English coins going back to the Georgian era?

Official Red Book US Coins 2017 edition is what I'm using.

Sadly, I do not know who to check for English coins, would have to google it.

[Homercles 10205]

I wanna have a few drinks with you RDC, you’re an interesting cat

[futureman 22438]

8 hours ago, Homercles said:

I wanna have a few drinks with you RDC, you’re an interesting cat

that guy fucks. 

[RDCanecutter 26348]

20 hours ago, Homercles said:

I wanna have a few drinks with you RDC, you’re an interesting cat

 

12 hours ago, futureman said:

that guy fucks. 

Startin to sound like a set-up, y'all.

[Armybrat 40761]

Dad collected some Mexican gold too - this 50 Peso piece got a bezel so my mom could wear it now & then.

This doodad, a 32 carat Aquamarine from Columbia he got for  bargain in 1952. He bought it for $50 from a fellow Army officer who was splitting up with his wife (and hadn't given it to her yet). It was originally set in an 18k ring.

[El Diablo 4232]

Was the rock new when your dad got it?

[Prepuce of Doom 21020]

Still cooling! 

[Not that Bob 735]

That Aquamarine is stunning...and huge!

[tokamak 6353]

On 4/19/2019 at 5:47 PM, RDCanecutter said:

It's actually a shame that it matters if somebody touches a coin. I mean, the damn things were meant to be passed from hand to hand, thumped on bar counters, clinked together. I blame the Crazy Old Men.

The hobby is split between Normal People Who Like Coins, and Crazy Old Men. The Crazy Old Men are the ones who will actually spend money to get coins. They invented the minute gradations, the use of plastic slabs to guarantee authenticity, the obsession with minor details. Me, I couldn't enjoy owning a coin where I'd lose a thousand bucks if I breathed on it. But if you want the most money for a rare coin, you have to play by their rules.

I like beat-up common foreign coins where I can pick them up and look at them and who cares if they've got a scratch or not.

I collect casino chips which is about 0.01% as big as coin collecting but otherwise has some similarities. Many of the old-timers in the hobby started out as coin collectors and then came over to chips. The concept of plastic slabs and grading by third parties is practically unknown in chip collecting. About 8 or 10 years ago I think one of the grading companies tried to get a chip grading service going and people flipped the fuck out. They hated what it had done to coin collecting. It'll destroy the hobby, etc. Several big time collectors circulated a pledge stating that they'd never do business with any dealer or individual who sold a single slabbed chip. Enough people signed it that the grading company pretty much gave up and went away (I'm sure the tiny size of the hobby relative to coin collecting helped that decision as well). Just goes to show you that no matter how small or niche some community is, there will always be drama eventually.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Armybrat’s dad probably dealt with my Pops and abuelito back in the 60s. Or at least ran in the same crowd. I am sure he would have mentioned to two dapper Latinos up from Central America dealing in coins, specifically Reales (which my pops published a book about).

 

After my abuelito died and then house was robbed, I think my father lost his interest in coins. He does have a lot of interesting stories and also met a lot of interesting people through that business venture. In an indirect way it led him to immigrate and eventually get an engineering degree from Texas.

 

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

This is the last Real my Pops has (my shot, not meant to be a catalog photo).

[gsoda3 3238]

On 4/20/2019 at 10:46 PM, RDCanecutter said:

Official Red Book US Coins 2017 edition is what I'm using.

Sadly, I do not know who to check for English coins, would have to google it.

what's the difference between the red book and blue book?

[RDCanecutter 26348]

14 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

what's the difference between the red book and blue book?

I think the Red Book was meant as "retail" and the Blue Book was meant as "wholesale". But this is coming from a guy who never owned a Blue Book, so I am just speculating. I think the Red Book maybe has more info.

I also heard of something called a "Gray Sheet" that sits mysteriously behind the counter at coin shops.

My impression is that they are a lot like Comic Book Price Guides, ie, fantasy prices that make people think they have great treasures, which, yeah, they do, if they can find the one guy willing to pay those prices.

They are good to see relative scarcity and which coin is supposed to be three times more valuable that something else.

Once I had a gig doing free-lance work where a broke dude would pay me with Morgan Silver Dollars from his collection, and I eventually ebayed most of them for whatever Red Book said Very Fine + Shipping & Handling was. Probably the buyers also had Red Books and thought maybe the coins were better condition than VF. I could have made up a price out of thin air and maybe that would have worked too. People get funny about shiny objects.

[RDCanecutter 26348]

This is the kind of coin I like:

A couple of dings, and a big slash across her bottom foot led the guy at Royalty Coins in San Antonio to let me have her for the price of silver. I liked the coin better than a perfect one because I could pick it up and look at it.

Royalty Coins, btw, is a great shop. I did my fly-on-the-wall act in there, pretending to look at stuff while really eavesdropping. They were offering fair prices to people who wanted to sell.

[Prepuce of Doom 21020]

Tell us the truth - you've personally rubbed the nipples off that thing, haven't you? 

[RDCanecutter 26348]

1 minute ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

Tell us the truth - you've personally rubbed the nipples off that thing, haven't you? 

I'm just as God made me.

[gsoda3 3238]

21 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

This is the kind of coin I like:

A couple of dings, and a big slash across her bottom foot led the guy at Royalty Coins in San Antonio to let me have her for the price of silver. I liked the coin better than a perfect one because I could pick it up and look at it.

Royalty Coins, btw, is a great shop. I did my fly-on-the-wall act in there, pretending to look at stuff while really eavesdropping. They were offering fair prices to people who wanted to sell.

i was just at royalty coins last week.  took the family to dirk's last career game which happened to be in san antonio.  we stayed the night on the riverwalk and had lunch at casa rio before heading back.  i managed to slip away for 10 minutes while we were waiting for food-  the restaurants is probably 20 feet away from the coin shop.  saw my first 20 cent piece so that was cool.  the policeman on duty was even helping out with rotating the display cases and showing me pieces.  wish i had more time.

[RDCanecutter 26348]

Word on the street (yo) is that they got into the coin bidness the old fashioned way-- from winning a collection in a poker game.

No idea if true, but finding fair prices next to the River Walk was a pleasant surprise like when I found out that hotdogs cost a dollar on the New Jersey Turnpike-- a situation where they have every opportunity to gouge the public, but choose to live right.

[El Diablo 4232]

I sold all of my silver in 1980 to a couple of brothers from Dallas. Name was "Hunt" I think.

[pantone159 719]

VF is probably a fair grade for those gold coins that futureman has. The $1 maybe is a lesser grade as the word 'Dollars' on the back looks worn. But otherwise they all look nice, so they ought to have collector value more than gold value. Whether a buyer offers more, who knows. I like them!

I like the Republic of Texas note a lot too! I have been more interested in paper than coins. The little picture at the left ('vignette') is of Burnet escaping the Mexican army at Galveston Bay. The note was not actually signed by Sam Houston himself. It was signed by a secretary on his behalf, he had better things to worry about than signing all of the nations money by hand. It is not fake, it is his official signature, but it was signed by another person. I have another note of that type, mine is signed 'Mirabeau B Lamar', I do not know who actually signed it though.

 

[Armybrat 40761]

On 4/22/2019 at 9:37 AM, Patricio Swayze said:

This is the last Real my Pops has (my shot, not meant to be a catalog photo).

Say, that Real is a nice one - same date as Mrs. Brat’s pendant.

What city was your abuelito’s shop located in before emigrating?  My dad did most of his buying in a couple of shops in Monterrey, then occasionally when he visited a gunsmith/blacksmith in Montemorelos. That would be from the 1961-1975 period.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Say, that Real is a nice one - same date as Mrs. Brat’s pendant.

What city was your abuelito’s shop located in before emigrating?  My dad did most of his buying in a couple of shops in Monterrey, then occasionally when he visited a gunsmith/blacksmith in Montemorelos. That would be from the 1961-1975 period.

 

He never had a shop. Him and my Pops traveled around Latin America buying coins and reselling them to collectors in the US and Latin America. At the time he was based out of Honduras (he was Costa Rican, married to a Brazilian), and my Pops ended up moving to San Antonio to go to school and learn English. Originally he was headed to Salamanca, but decided on UT instead after being persuaded by an attorney friend. My abeuelito would fly up and they would visit shops in Texas and Mexico and buy/sell. I would need to ask him the specific shops.

 

And this was probably 1965-1975.

[RDCanecutter 26348]

Let's get Britannical (Britannical)

Come and let your shillings talk (shillings talk)

[Pato del Muerto 52397]

On 4/18/2019 at 3:54 PM, RDCanecutter said:

If it's worth something, you will knock down the value putting prints from your dick-beaters on it like that. You want to hold it by the edges.

Flip it over, and see what's under the wreath and over the D and O of Dollar. Anything there, or just a bare spot?

Thanks for the advice. To remove my skin oils from it, I scrubbed the shit out of it with a very harsh abrasive and then gave it a 5 minute bath in aqua regia. 

[RDCanecutter 26348]

1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Thanks for the advice. To remove my skin oils from it, I scrubbed the shit out of it with a very harsh abrasive and then gave it a 5 minute bath in aqua regia. 

I just give em a few whacks with a ball-peen hammer.

[gsoda3 3238]

Let's get Britannical (Britannical)
Come and let your shillings talk (shillings talk)

Nice! My dad has a handful of old pennies but my favorite is his 1806 George iii penny.

[RDCanecutter 26348]

Those big old English pennies are great, you could cook a small pizza on top of them.

[txhorns 2409]

Looks like I have a bunch of Morgan dollar coins from the late 1800s to early 1900s.  Are those worth anything?

I also know someone who collects all quarters from before like 1965 because supposedly the silver value is much higher than the coin value.  Is that true or is he crazy?

[RDCanecutter 26348]

1 minute ago, txhorns said:

Looks like I have a bunch of Morgan dollar coins from the late 1800s to early 1900s.  Are those worth anything?

I also know someone who collects all quarters from before like 1965 because supposedly the silver value is much higher than the coin value.  Is that true or is he crazy?

Even ordinary Morgan dollars in middling shape can be sold for 25-35 each if you put in the work. If you just walk in a coin store, you will get 14-15 for them.

https://www.alabamagoldrefinery.com/product/morgan-2/

Check the part under the eagle and the wreath. If you see "CC" that's Carson City mint, and those are worth multiples more than the others.

Your friend is correct about the old quarters, also dimes pre-1965. Their silver is currently about 10 times the face value. Half Dollars up until 1970 also have silver in them.

Your friend may or may not be crazy, but he's right about the silver.

[txhorns 2409]

2 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

Even ordinary Morgan dollars in middling shape can be sold for 25-35 each if you put in the work. If you just walk in a coin store, you will get 14-15 for them.

https://www.alabamagoldrefinery.com/product/morgan-2/

Check the part under the eagle and the wreath. If you see "CC" that's Carson City mint, and those are worth multiples more than the others.

Your friend is correct about the old quarters, also dimes pre-1965. Their silver is currently about 10 times the face value. Half Dollars up until 1970 also have silver in them.

Your friend may or may not be crazy, but he's right about the silver.

So basically keep those coins and sell them for the silver value?

[RDCanecutter 26348]

1 minute ago, txhorns said:

So basically keep those coins and sell them for the silver value?

The Morgans? I'd keep those until I wanted to sell them, and find a way to sell them directly to a collector for at least double the silver value. Remember to check for "CC", those might bring you a few hundred.

Old quarters and dimes? Yeah, those are pretty much worth whatever their silver weight is unless you have some super-duper rare specimen.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Just give me the Morgan’s. I’ll take care of them for you.

[RDCanecutter 26348]

Anybody got any 1923-D or 1930-D Dimes? They are probably Soviet counterfeits. For lots of the time that dimes were made of silver, the silver in them was worth as little as half the face value (I've heard of people in the 40s using their last dime to buy a beer,) so if you have mountains of silver mined by political prisoners, turn it into double the US cash with your own minting operation.

The first to render an official opinion on “Soviet Dimes” was Q. David Bowers: “This coin is one of the most famous American counterfeits, a coin which appears several times a year in various places to plague collectors, and usually disappoints its owner after he spends time and effort only to learn that it is a counterfeit. This piece is not a cast or an electrotype, but is struck from dies. The lettering is thinner and not as well formed as on the originals. This coin falls into the interesting category of counterfeits in which the counterfeiters were not numismatists, and created coins which had no official counterparts.”

.

According to John J Ford, Jr. an editor of Numisma and famous collector:

“To the best of our knowledge, these are counterfeits made of good silver and struck from excellent false dies -- evidencing better technical facilities than those available to American crime rings. They were made, along with many worn appearing (dateless) Liberty Standing quarters, prior to and during World War II -- and probably to the present day -- in the Soviet Union. Evidence of this practice turned up during the war, but nothing was done because of the probability of antagonizing our "gallant Soviet ally!" The Soviet technical experts evidentially perfected some process of transferring genuine designs from coins to plaster and from plaster to steel dies, the latter presumably by some machine similar to the portrait-lathe used in Philadelphia and Tower Hill (English) mints for over a century. They also have good silver, heavy presses and collars -- equipment available to no American counterfeiter. The purpose has nothing to do with numismatics. So far as we know these coins were intended (like those made by the Chinese and Italian imitators of American gold coins) to pass as a circulating medium. Silver, or gold, in the form of coins seemingly backed by a stable government, can be spent at a far better rate (i.e. has a higher purchasing power) than its bullion price as ingots. The Soviet imitations have evidently succeeded, as to date all specimens seen are considerably worn. The differences between them and the genuine are microscopic. It is highly likely that other dates have been manufactured and passed unnoticed. Fortunately for us, the quantities passed in this country have apparently been too small to disturb the economy.”

.

It is accepted that the 1923-D dime is nothing more or less than a struck counterfeit, made from skillfully hand-cut dies at some unknown time and place, but thought to have been possibly of Soviet Russia origin like numerous other modern silver struck counterfeits.

[bernorange 8351]

1 hour ago, txhorns said:

...

I also know someone who collects all quarters from before like 1965 because supposedly the silver value is much higher than the coin value.  Is that true or is he crazy?

http://www.coinflation.com/silver_coin_values.html

[pantone159 719]

I like the shillings. Those are some of the coins with the highest purity silver (92.5%, 'Sterling') minted anywhere. (Except the last one, Great Britain dropped the silver content in 1920.)