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Striking Out The Side

VolenteHawk

By VolenteHawk
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VolenteHawk

VolenteHawk 495

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Think you know what it means to “strike out the side?” Don’t be so sure 
https://theathletic.com/926389/2019/04/17/think-you-know-what-it-means-to-strike-out-the-side-dont-be-so-sure/

Article from The Athletic on striking out the side. I’ve always thought 3 Ks counted, apparently some disagree that it has to be 1-2-3.

What sayeth Surly?

 

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Gene Parmesan

Gene Parmesan 4016

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I say 3 Ks counts.  It needing to be 123 seems like a ridiculous requirement to me.  Like saying for it to be truly hitting for the cycle it needs to go in the order of single, double, triple, homerun.  If someone does go 123 maybe you can further distinguish that in your description but it's not necessary.

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miguelito

miguelito 11312

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I think it's more properly used as getting 3 outs by K, even if there are base-runners in the inning.  If it's 123, it can be modified as "striking out the side in order."

Besides, what would you call it if you faced 5 batters, gave up 2 hits, but struck out 3?  Is that not striking out the side?

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Not a cat

Not a cat 5707

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Here is what wikipedia says-

There is a disagreement as to the exact definition of striking out the side. Some feel a pitcher should be credited with striking out the side when all three outs in the inning were obtained via the strikeout, regardless of what other hitters the pitcher has faced have done. Others believe a pitcher only has struck out the side when he or she has retired 3 batters in succession without allowing anyone to reach base.[2]

In 2018, ESPN baseball analyst Tim Kurkjiandefined "striking out the side" as "three batters come to the plate, and all three strike out."[3]Others argue that those who ascribe to Kurkjian's definition are instead describing "striking out the side in order."

I'd argue that calling it striking out the side in order could tecnically mean you just strike out the last 3 batters so it could include instances where the first batters reached.  I'm sticking to my position that it needs to be 3 up 3 down with 3 k's.

On another note of baseball terms, technically isnt a perfect game nobody reaches base with 27k's on 81 pitches?  

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Surly Bevo

Surly Bevo 25167

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Striking out the side means obtaining all three outs in a half inning via the K.  A 1-2-3 inning is sitting them down in order.  Striking out the side without it being a 1-2-3 inning likely means it was a fairly inefficient inning for the pitcher in terms of pitch count (though not always)

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 33101

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Striking out the side means obtaining all three outs in a half inning via the K.  A 1-2-3 inning is sitting them down in order.  Striking out the side without it being a 1-2-3 inning likely means it was a fairly inefficient inning for the pitcher in terms of pitch count (though not always)

 

“The side” is a half inning, 3 outs. You get all 3 outs by strikeout, you’ve struck out the side. 

You strike out the first 3, you’ve struck out the side in order. 

These guys are absolutely correct. A half-inning is a "side" (hence the term "retiring the side" when the defense makes the last out). If you get all of the outs in a half-inning via strikeout, then you have "struck out the side." If a runner reaches on a third strike via wild pitch or passed ball then it would take 4 strikeouts to strike out the side.

Anyone who thinks it has to be 1-2-3 is wrong and they should feel bad about not knowing the actual meaning of the word "side" in that context.

 

 

Edited by Huckleberry
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oSuJeff97

oSuJeff97 3435

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4 hours ago, MAROON said:

they're fascist

And boring.

Ground balls are definitely more democratic.

But to answer the original question, I've always thought "striking out the side" means that all three outs are recorded via strikeout.  It doesn't have to be the first three batters you face, IMO. 

Agree with others in that's "striking out the side in order."

Edited by oSuJeff97
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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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The side is whatever your opponent has to offer whether it’s three outs or a division of Russian soldiers.  In the battle of Stalingrad even though the Russians killed 30,000 of their own men the Nazis still get credited with striking out the side

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smwhorn

smwhorn 483

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2 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

 

 

These guys are absolutely correct. A half-inning is a "side" (hence the term "retiring the side" when the defense makes the last out). If you get all of the outs in a half-inning via strikeout, then you have "struck out the side." If a runner reaches on a third strike via wild pitch or passed ball then it would take 4 strikeouts to strike out the side.

Anyone who thinks it has to be 1-2-3 is wrong and they should feel bad about not knowing the actual meaning of the word "side" in that context.

 

 

I am in agreement with this take.

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54450

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Quote

“The side” is a half inning, 3 outs. You get all 3 outs by strikeout, you’ve struck out the side. 

You strike out the first 3, you’ve struck out the side in order. 

I don't like this, but it's correct.  I wonder what the record for most runs allowed is while striking out the side?

Edited by Beau Vine
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ztejas

ztejas 43543

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My issue with 3ks regardless of what else happens in the inning is, say you give up 7 runs, but the 3 outs wind up being strike outs, the announcer isn't going to come out and say "And Leclerc strikes out the side for the Rangers!"

I think there is definitely some nuance/connotation to it. It doesn't need to be that literal in meaning. 

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Wishbone

Wishbone 4788

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8 minutes ago, Machinator said:

OSU announcers just said that their starter struck out the side.

Plate appearance 1: Ellis strikes out

PA 2: Kennedy strikes out but reaches on a wild pitch

PA 3: Todd flies out to center

PA 4: Hibbeler strikes out

Verdict?

Since all three outs were not strikeouts, it is not striking out the side. He gets credit for a strikeout on Kennedy, but not the out. Confusing, no doubt. Stat strikeout vs actual out.

Edited by Wishbone
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Surly Bevo

Surly Bevo 25167

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8 minutes ago, Machinator said:

OSU announcers just said that their starter struck out the side.

Plate appearance 1: Ellis strikes out

PA 2: Kennedy strikes out but reaches on a wild pitch

PA 3: Todd flies out to center

PA 4: Hibbeler strikes out

Verdict?

Typical Horns piss poor plate approach?

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Helobious

Helobious 9466

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*Uncle Rico story time*

In high school I once struck out the first two batters in an inning, gave up a hit, then struck out the 4th batter. You can fuck yourself if you’re saying I didn’t strike out the side. One of my proudest baseball accomplishments. 

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Llano Estacado

Llano Estacado 1257

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Wouldn’t the perfectest game be 27 first pitch ground ball outs?


I thought about this yesterday as well. Even looked for a sabermetric guy to compare WAR of “groundball pitchers” vs “strikeout pitchers” (even though I’m sure there is some overlap between the two categories), but couldn’t find anything.

81 no contact strikes in a row is preferred to 27 ground balls, but since both aren’t likely to ever happen how efficient is the pursuit of wins?

Highest ever fielding percentage is .99104 by the 2013 Orioles. Not sure what the rate of infield singles would be by plate appearance in the MLB (

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VolenteHawk

VolenteHawk 495

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On 4/20/2019 at 10:33 AM, Llano Estacado said:

I thought about this yesterday as well. Even looked for a sabermetric guy to compare WAR of “groundball pitchers” vs “strikeout pitchers” (even though I’m sure there is some overlap between the two categories), but couldn’t find anything.

81 no contact strikes in a row is preferred to 27 ground balls, but since both aren’t likely to ever happen how efficient is the pursuit of wins?

Highest ever fielding percentage is .99104 by the 2013 Orioles. Not sure what the rate of infield singles would be by plate appearance in the MLB (

 

I’m a sabermetric dork, but I’m not a true expert on WAR. With that disclaimer, I think the answer is it depends on the method of calculation.

Fangraphs WAR: The groundball pitcher would be penalized, because it’s based on FIP...and so some non-zero number of those ground balls “should” be hits. This is obviously a contrived example but the 27 K pitcher would have a FIP of 0 as the basis for his WAR calculation, while the 27 GB guy would have 3.20. And so the strike out guy individually contributed more toward saving those runs (relied on the defense less).

Baseball Reference WAR: Less obvious to me, but it’s intentionally designed to be a more descriptive stat so is based on actual runs allowed as the starting point and not FIP. So, I THINK in this case the two WARs would be equal (unless I’m missing a 2nd order defensive component in the calculation that would similarly adjust being perfect on balls in play).

 

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 33101

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OSU announcers just said that their starter struck out the side.

Plate appearance 1: Ellis strikes out

PA 2: Kennedy strikes out but reaches on a wild pitch

PA 3: Todd flies out to center

PA 4: Hibbeler strikes out

Verdict?

They're wrong. That is the example of striking out three batters but not striking out the side.

 

It does bring up the only scenario about this I think is debatable. Two strikeouts are clean but the third is a drppped third strike put out at first. It's a strikeout but technically the out is recorded as a put out at first base. I can see either argument on this one. I think the fair answer would be it's striking out the side if it was a passed ball or straight drop by the catcher but not if it was a wild pitch. But I'm not really sure what the technically correct answer would be in that situation. I'm inclined to say it counts if the batter who struck out doesn't reach first safely. If something crazy happens and there's a wild throw and he's tagged out going for second then it wouldn't be.

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WBT

WBT 20670

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On 4/19/2019 at 4:36 PM, ztejas said:

My issue with 3ks regardless of what else happens in the inning is, say you give up 7 runs, but the 3 outs wind up being strike outs, the announcer isn't going to come out and say "And Leclerc strikes out the side for the Rangers!"

I think there is definitely some nuance/connotation to it. It doesn't need to be that literal in meaning. 

Why wouldn't he?  I've definitely heard announcers say in in an ironic way in innings where runs were scored.

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