Wine

[Party_Taco 3726]

2005 Rudd was totally corked and totally ruined. very disappointing.  An inordinate number of their wines I have aged have all been dog shit.  I only have two left, and am just going to drink them asap.  I have zero expectation they’re going to drink well   
 

Fucking tragedy.

[Hollywood 342]

These just arrived




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[thrillhammer 683]

On 1/1/2019 at 4:59 PM, pepper brooks said:

 

2005 Rudd was totally corked and totally ruined. very disappointing.  An inordinate number of their wines I have aged have all been dog shit.  I only have two left, and am just going to drink them asap.  I have zero expectation they’re going to drink well   

 

What do you think happened?  Do you think it's the vineyards, or something you're doing wrong in your storage process?

[DDD Dad 14339]

I doubt it’s the vineyards. If they are aging poorly it could be that they were too low in acid to start (not atypical these days with the trend toward lush high alcohol wines) , they had issues with their corks or closures, or there was a storage issue.

[HenryJames 66052]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/dining/supreme-court-interstate-wine-sales.html

THE POUR

The justices will hear oral arguments in a contentious case involving whether consumers can order from out-of-state wine shops.

By Eric Asimov

Jan. 10, 2019

With just a few clicks on my computer or phone, I can order a rare book from San Francisco, a country ham from Kentucky or a dazzling box of chocolates from Vermont. I can track the shipments to the door of my New York apartment building, where I will receive them, marveling at our effortless access to almost anything we desire.

That modern convenience, however, is denied to wine lovers who live in the 36 states that prohibit interstate shipping from retail wine shops. A consumer in a rural community, for example, with few good wine shops within easy reach, is forbidden to order wine from an out of-state source with great bottles galore.

This may change in the not-too-distant future. A case to be argued before the United States Supreme Court on Wednesday may decide whether states can prohibit retail wine shops from shipping to consumers in another state. A ruling might even affect access to small-production beers and spirits, although it's not clear whether it would extend beyond wine.

The case, Tennessee Wine and Spirits Retailers Association v. Blair, does not hinge directly on the issue of interstate retail sales. It instead is focused on the effort of Total Wine & More, a national retail chain of almost 200 stores, to open an outlet in Tennessee. A group of retailers in the state sued in an effort to block the move, arguing that Tennessee law required the retail owners to be residents of the state.

Yet the court’s decision, many believe, will have major implications for interstate wine sales. It could open a wellspring of opportunities to consumers, allowing wine lovers to scour the country for hard-to-find bottles and the best retail deals. Or it could put to rest any further effort to broaden access to fine wine.

“We’re about 90 percent sure it will affect interstate shipping,” said Daniel Posner, the managing partner of Grapes the Wine Company, in White Plains, N.Y. The Supreme Court May Change the Way You Buy Wine

Mr. Posner is the president of the National Association of Wine Retailers, an advocacy group, which has filed a brief with the court in Blair arguing that the right of wine producers to sell and ship bottles to out-of-state consumers, granted in a 2005 case, Granholm v. Heald, should be extended to retailers.

The Granholm case struck down state laws that permitted wine producers to ship bottles directly to consumers in that state and barred out-of-state producers from the same practice. In-state and out-of-state producers must play by the same set of rules, the court said.

But the Granholm ruling was vague about whether it applied to retailers as well.

Before the early years of this century, ordering wine from out-of-state merchants was a minor part of the business, and drew little attention. Only the most committed collectors, who sought access to out-of-state wine catalogs, would go through the inconvenience and expense of such transactions.

High-speed internet changed everything. With easy access to retail websites, consumers anywhere in the country could order from specialty wine shops, purchasing bottles that might otherwise be unavailable in their own states.

Given the irrational patchwork of regulations that governs wine distribution, every state essentially offers consumers a different selection of wines. For people who live in areas rich with fine-wine retailers, internet shopping was an added bonus. For those in areas with few retail options, it was a savior.

As consumers became accustomed to shopping on their computers, interstate sales became a more significant part of the business for retailers, enough so to draw the attention of wine-andspirits wholesalers, who felt themselves bypassed by such interstate sales.

Urged on by the wholesalers, who lobbied and contributed heavily to state political campaigns, states began to crack down on interstate retail shipping, and carriers like FedEx and United Parcel Service specifically. Those companies have told retailers in recent years that they would no longer accept out-of-state shipments of alcoholic beverages unless they were bound for one of 14 states (along with Washington, D.C.) that explicitly permit such interstate commerce. Interstate wine shopping effectively ended for many people.

While the Granholm decision did not specifically grant retailers the right to sell wines out of state, it did not prohibit it, either. The national retailers association — along with other proponents, including a group of 81 consumers, which also filed a brief in the case — is hoping that the court’s Blair decision will extend those rights explicitly to retailers.

“As with a lot of Supreme Court cases, there’s an issue that’s squarely before the court, but there are other issues that the court will have to sort through in making a decision that will have a lot of implications,” said Paul D. Clement, a lawyer who filed the brief on behalf of the national retailers association.

The original ruling in the Blair case, by a federal district judge, was in favor of the Tennessee retailers association, which had defended the state residency requirement. But that was overturned in early 2018 by the United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit, which cited Granholm in ruling that in-state entities could not be favored over out-of-state entities.

The Tennessee retailers — who, unlike the national association, favor the residency requirement — argue that the Granholm decision applies only to wine producers, not to retailers. If the court accepts that argument, it will end immediate consumer hopes of regaining access to a wider selection of wines.

Richard L. Colbert, a lawyer for the Tennessee retailers, declined to comment on the case. But Mr. Clement, who served as United States solicitor general from 2005 through 2008, asserts that Granholm should logically extend to wine retailers.

“Your typical winery has a production function and a retail function, and Granholm’s focus was on the retail side,” Mr. Clement said. “The interstate activity protected by Granholm wasn’t production, it was sales.”

Another recent case, Lebamoff v. Rauner, also challenged restrictions on interstate retail shipments. In that case, the Court of Appeals for the Seventh District, in Chicago, rejected the argument that Granholm drew a clear distinction between producers and retailers. The importance of that opinion, though, will depend on how the Supreme Court rules in the Blair case.

Because of the arcane nature of the case, it is difficult to speculate along political lines what the court will do.

“All the normal left-right stuff just goes out the window,” Mr. Clement said. “It becomes very difficult to predict, especially since there’s been a significant turnover in the court since Granholm.”

Of the nine justices in the 5-to-4 Granholm decision, only three remain: Justice Clarence Thomas, who dissented, and Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen G. Breyer, who sided with the majority.

Ultimately, the case is a reminder of the tortured relationship that the United States has had with alcoholic beverages since the passage of the 21st Amendment, which ended Prohibition in 1933. That amendment left it to each state to impose its own laws and regulations, which makes the distribution of wine in the United States so difficult and confusing.

In addition, producers nationwide are required to sell to retailers by way of wholesale distributors. This three-tier system vests great power in wholesalers, who have opposed any efforts like Granholm or Blair to expand consumer access to wine.

The Granholm decision was the first to chip away at this archaic structure. The Blair case may be one more step toward freer access to fine wine.

Where Buying Wine From Out of State Is Still Permitted

Alaska

California

Idaho

Louisiana

Missouri

Nebraska

Nevada

New Hampshire

New Mexico

North Dakota

Oregon

Virginia

Washington, D.C.

West Virginia

Wyoming

[Carl Spackler 3483]

So . . . does anyone have experience with the Monterey County River Road Wine Trail or the tasting rooms on it?

Heading up to Pinnacles National Park later in the spring to do a couple days of hiking and cave exploring, and will be staying at an Airbnb in the Soledad area (only miles from the prison -- yay!)  In researching the trip, I discovered that we'll be staying near this wine trail, so I figure we may have some time for some tasting when we're not gallivanting around Pinnacles.  Here are the wineries in the area:  Odonata, Pessagno, Manzani, Puma Road, Hahn, Smith Family, Scheid, Chalone, and Michaud.  The only two I had even heard of are Hahn and Smith Family.  Apparently, they grow a fair amount of pinot and chardonnay in this region. 

http://riverroadwinetrail.com/

Anyway, I was wondering whether anyone has recs re: any of these wineries.  I have experience with the viticultural regions in and around Santa Barbara County and Paso Robles, but not this one (Santa Lucia Highlands).  Frankly, I'm not expecting too much, but maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.  BTW, we likely won't have time to hop over to the Carmel Valley area -- plenty of wineries over there, but we'll likely save them for another trip.    

 

[HenryJames 66052]

Marcel Lapierre, imo.

[Shaddie 1651]

1000% newbie. I have started drinking Malbecs. I know 0% about wine but I like this stuff. It just seems to have a little bit of variety. Am I wrong?

[DDD Dad 14339]

So . . . does anyone have experience with the Monterey County River Road Wine Trail or the tasting rooms on it?
Heading up to Pinnacles National Park later in the spring to do a couple days of hiking and cave exploring, and will be staying at an Airbnb in the Soledad area (only miles from the prison -- yay!)  In researching the trip, I discovered that we'll be staying near this wine trail, so I figure we may have some time for some tasting when we're not gallivanting around Pinnacles.  Here are the wineries in the area:  Odonata, Pessagno, Manzani, Puma Road, Hahn, Smith Family, Scheid, Chalone, and Michaud.  The only two I had even heard of are Hahn and Smith Family.  Apparently, they grow a fair amount of pinot and chardonnay in this region. 
http://riverroadwinetrail.com/
Anyway, I was wondering whether anyone has recs re: any of these wineries.  I have experience with the viticultural regions in and around Santa Barbara County and Paso Robles, but not this one (Santa Lucia Highlands).  Frankly, I'm not expecting too much, but maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.  BTW, we likely won't have time to hop over to the Carmel Valley area -- plenty of wineries over there, but we'll likely save them for another trip.    
 

I think Loring is in Lompoc. Brian is a good guy. If you go pm me and I will connect you.

[HenryJames 66052]

47 minutes ago, Shaddie said:

1000% newbie. I have started drinking Malbecs. I know 0% about wine but I like this stuff. It just seems to have a little bit of variety. Am I wrong?

If you like it, you’re not wrong.

[AustinMT 952]

3 hours ago, HenryJames said:

If you like it, you’re not wrong.

We’re Cab drinkers, but really like a good Malbec as well.  Falls somewhere between a Merlot and a big Cab. It’s one of the Bordeaux varietals, but I think the best are the Argentine Malbecs.  Head to Total Wine and grab a bottle of Catena Alta (not the plain Catena, get the Alta). Reasonably priced at about $45, and a nice pour. Decant and enjoy

[texasdago 7573]

So, I've started reading lots of great things about William Chris Vineyards and Ron Yates Wines.... two wineries based out of Hye, TX.  Went out there this past Monday and picked up some wine... very impressed.   Texas wines have come a long way.

 

Edit... when I say a long way, I have no interest in drinking a Texas Cabernet Sauvignon or Chardonnay but what they're doing with some Italian and Spanish wines is great... and the pet nats being made by William Chris and Ron Yates are excellent (if you like pet nats... not everyone does)

On this... "Anytime you can pay 35-50 bucks for the "good" wine made in Texas you gotta do it. Really can't find any good wine from Europe or California at that price point. "

That is hilarious.  No good wine from Italy or France under $50 huh?  LOL.  

Lastly... https://www.winemag.com/?s=William Chris 

 

Edited January 24, 2019 by texasdago

[sidis 9828]

ovid's experiments for this year come out on 1/31.  fuck, going to be an expensive day.

[Carl Spackler 3483]

17 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

I think Loring is in Lompoc. Brian is a good guy. If you go pm me and I will connect you.

Thanks.  I really like the Loring wines I've had, esp. his pinots -- one of my favorite stops when I'm in Santa Barbara County.  You're right -- the winery is in Lompoc, but his tasting room is actually now in Buellton.  The next time I go up there, I may hit you up for an intro. 

Edited January 24, 2019 by Carl Spackler

[HenryJames 66052]

3 hours ago, texasdago said:

...when I say a long way, I have no interest in drinking a Texas Cabernet Sauvignon or Chardonnay but what they're doing with some Italian and Spanish wines is great... 

Agreed. Also check out Southhold if you like pet nats.

[DDD Dad 14339]

Thanks.  I really like the Loring wines I've had, esp. his pinots -- one of my favorite stops when I'm in Santa Barbara County.  You're right -- the winery is in Lompoc, but his tasting room is actually now in Buellton.  The next time I go up there, I may hit you up for an intro. 

Happy to do it. I’ve been internet friends with him for 15 years but still haven’t met him in person. Had scheduled him for a wine dinner at my CC in Dallas a few years back but we had to cancel it for some reason.

[texasdago 7573]

22 hours ago, HenryJames said:

Agreed. Also check out Southhold if you like pet nats.

I need to try their other wines.  So far only had the Sparkling Lagrein which I found underwhelming.  Maybe the Sangiovese pet nat is more like the pet nats I tried at William Chris and Roy Yates.

[HenryJames 66052]

Douro, imo.

[VABuckeye 2472]

Looks like Ass. 

[VABuckeye 2472]

But probably good ass. 

[HenryJames 66052]

Mercurey, imeux.

[texasdago 7573]

On 1/24/2019 at 12:42 PM, HenryJames said:

Agreed. Also check out Southhold if you like pet nats.

Just got a shipment of three wines... really liked the picpoul blanc... lots of funk, reminds me of some of the more unusual natural wines coming from Europe.  

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19101]

I've been organizing my wine at the house. About halfway done and I've got 194 bottles of 87 different wines from 55 wine regions. Some of my favorites...

[DFWTexEx 276]

Italian wine night last night.

The '71 was amazing in that the nose was musky and dirty, but it tasted like candy, just fantastic.  The '85 Col D'Oricia, just well rounded and lush, my other favorite.  All were exceptional.

Edited February 10, 2019 by DFWTexEx

[VABuckeye 2472]

Drools.

I've had the two Brunello's but not that old.  How was the table wine?

Edited February 10, 2019 by VABuckeye

[pepper brooks 580]

On 1/11/2019 at 7:03 AM, thrillhammer said:

What do you think happened?  Do you think it's the vineyards, or something you're doing wrong in your storage process?

 Definitely not storage. I bought these at the winery out of their library shipped cold overnight and out into my offsite storage that has never lost power nor any issues there. These are 03-07 vintages and were really before the super high alcohol wines became a a thing. That really kicked off with 08.  One of them had a core issue and I expected it to be shit, and it was. The others seemingly were fine. I haven’t bought anymore red wine from them  a long while. Still buy the edge hill chard every year. It’s remarkable very time 

[DFWTexEx 276]

22 hours ago, VABuckeye said:

Drools.

I've had the two Brunello's but not that old.  How was the table wine?

It was was also a 1985 (but a multi-vintage special blend) and very nice, with great fruit and very soft tannins.  Long and elegant to drink.  We started with it and just had some simple homemade focaccia with it before dinner.  

[DDD Dad 14339]

Cross post from the VD thread.

IMO Henry

[Jimbaround 975]

Nothing vintage, but one of our favorites.

[Longhornmaniac8 255]

Champagne Delamotte is a really great buy. It uses grapes from the same vineyards as Salon in Le Mesnil, at about 10% of the price. Had it for the first time at Eddie V's a few months back and was extremely impressed. Has the complexity of the high end champers at around $50.

[DDD Dad 14339]

The Calon Segur was amazing. So many different layers of flavor.

[NoName 16351]

On 1/24/2019 at 9:07 AM, texasdago said:

So, I've started reading lots of great things about William Chris Vineyards and Ron Yates Wines.... two wineries based out of Hye, TX.  Went out there this past Monday and picked up some wine... very impressed.   Texas wines have come a long way.

 

Edit... when I say a long way, I have no interest in drinking a Texas Cabernet Sauvignon or Chardonnay but what they're doing with some Italian and Spanish wines is great... and the pet nats being made by William Chris and Ron Yates are excellent (if you like pet nats... not everyone does)

On this... "Anytime you can pay 35-50 bucks for the "good" wine made in Texas you gotta do it. Really can't find any good wine from Europe or California at that price point. "

That is hilarious.  No good wine from Italy or France under $50 huh?  LOL.  

Lastly... https://www.winemag.com/?s=William Chris 

 

This is neither here nor there, but the William Chris guys are pretty involved and aggressive in trying to make wine labeled as "Texas wine" to be made with 100% Texas grapes - right now it is 75% Texas/25% elsewhere. 

 

[texasdago 7573]

1 hour ago, NoName said:

This is neither here nor there, but the William Chris guys are pretty involved and aggressive in trying to make wine labeled as "Texas wine" to be made with 100% Texas grapes - right now it is 75% Texas/25% elsewhere. 

 

I agree that if you're going to call it Texas wine, it has to be 100%.  I think several of theirs are labeled as 100%.  Will have to take a look.  Believe that's the goal of Ron Yates.  I know Southold isn't there, yet, but moving in that direction.

[Jimbaround 975]

11 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

The Calon Segur was amazing. So many different layers of flavor.
 

How long did you need to decant a '95?

[AustinMT 952]

1 hour ago, texasdago said:

I agree that if you're going to call it Texas wine, it has to be 100%.  I think several of theirs are labeled as 100%.  Will have to take a look.  Believe that's the goal of Ron Yates.  I know Southold isn't there, yet, but moving in that direction.

I think the biggest issue is being able to get enough quality fruit from Texas vines.  Not a problem in California, but it is an issue in Texas.  

I get the marketing angle, but frankly I don't buy a lot of Texas wines and telling me it's 100% Texas grapes isn't going to make a difference unless the wine is good.

[DDD Dad 14339]

53 minutes ago, Jimbaround said:

How long did you need to decant a '95?

I tend not to decant for flavor but I do for sediment.  I decanted it about 20 minutes before dinner, shortly before we put the lobsters under the broiler.

[Party_Taco 3726]

Not.Too.Shabby.

[texasdago 7573]

On 2/15/2019 at 10:41 AM, AustinMT said:

I think the biggest issue is being able to get enough quality fruit from Texas vines.  Not a problem in California, but it is an issue in Texas.  

I get the marketing angle, but frankly I don't buy a lot of Texas wines and telling me it's 100% Texas grapes isn't going to make a difference unless the wine is good.

Totally agree and that's why I've mostly avoided Texas wine until William Chris and Ron Yates.

[VABuckeye 2472]

I do the same with Virginia wines.  Most of them just seem thin for lack of a better work.  I need to get down to Charlotteville.  The vineyards there are supposed to be better.

[texasdago 7573]

32 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

I do the same with Virginia wines.  Most of them just seem thin for lack of a better work.  I need to get down to Charlotteville.  The vineyards there are supposed to be better.

I liked Barboursville when I tried their Cabernet Franc.  What do you think of their wines?

[VABuckeye 2472]

They seem to be the best of the bunch in Virginia.  My son loved the vineyard when he visited it.

[DDD Dad 14339]

Best Napa cab year in year out? Possibly.

[Mac8111 2107]

Had a mag of this at dinner on Friday. Big. Tasty.

[DDD Dad 14339]

Realm is great. I’m friends with Juan.

[AustinMT 952]

5 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

Realm is great. I’m friends with Juan.

Had the 2010 Beckstoffer Dr. Crane about a week ago.  Excellent.

[HenryJames 66052]

Seamless transition from beer to wine.

[Tonesky 935]

On 2/14/2019 at 10:33 PM, DDD Dad said:

The Calon Segur was amazing. So many different layers of flavor.
 

I’ve also got a 95. Drink or hold?

[DDD Dad 14339]

Yes





(Either choice is correct)

[Mac8111 2107]

Share is best answer.

[Tonesky 935]

On 2/14/2019 at 10:33 PM, DDD Dad said:

The Calon Segur was amazing. So many different layers of flavor.
 

 

On 3/30/2019 at 12:10 AM, Tonesky said:

I’ve also got a 95. Drink or hold?

 

On 3/30/2019 at 9:03 AM, DDD Dad said:

Yes

(Either choice is correct)

Thanks. 

On 3/30/2019 at 9:50 AM, Mac8111 said:

Share is best answer.

Without question