Your all-time starting rotation

[Goo Punch 4275]

1- Pedro Martinez

2- Sandy Koufax

3- Bob Gibson 

4- Randy Johnson

5- Greg Maddux 

 

I wanted to alternate righties and lefties in my five. These aren't necessarily the guys who i think are the five best pitchers ever, I just think that it's just about my ideal staff 

[TexArcher 38420]

Bill James makes a useful distinction between career value and peak value.  If it's career we're talking about, Warren Spahn makes my list and Sandy Koufax doesn't.  But assuming we're talking peak value:

1. Sandy Koufax

2. Bob Gibson

3. Pedro Martinez

4. Randy Johnson

5. Walter Johnson

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

Clemns

Hurst

Schrld

Stanly

[Surly Bevo 25523]

1. Jose Lima
2. Jeff Suppan
3. Ken Hill
4. Sidney Ponson
5. Todd Van Poppel

Chicks dig the long ball....

[texashorne 1178]

1. Nolan Ryan

2. Clemens

3. Randy Rohnson

4. Mike Scott

5. Roy Oswalt

All were Astros at some point. 

[Carl Spackler 3531]

1.  Kerry Wood on 5/6/98

2.  Mordecai Brown

3. Greg Maddux

4.  Ferguson Jenkins

5. Rick Sutcliffe

 

Alltime, any team?

1.  Walter Johnson

2.  Cy Young

3.  Greg Maddux

4.  Randy Johnson

5.  Bob Gibson

 

 

[Spoetzl 189]

Koufax

Clemens

Maddox

JR Richard

Babe Ruth

[66BUFF 2577]

Satchel Paige.  He will pitch all of the games.

[UTPhil2006 3828]

Verlander

Cole

McHugh

Miley

Peacock

[Huckleberry 33558]

Any answer without Pedro is wrong.

The Babe Ruth inclusion is a masterstroke. Assuming that this exercise is about "you get to start a team with a 5-man rotation, who are you taking?" then Babe Ruth is the most correct answer possible.

[Scraps 13598]

1. Pedro

2. Randy Johnson

3. Clemens

4. Nolan Ryan

5. Justin Verlander (man crush selection) 

 

 

[Seasick Sailor 3747]

1. Nolan

2. Pedro

3. Randy Johnson

4. Mike Scott

5. J.R. Richard

[Beau Vine 54878]

No one has mentioned Lefty Grove????  He's in the argument for best pitcher in baseball history.  

And Bob Gibson is wildly overrated.  

[TexArcher 38420]

16 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

And Bob Gibson is wildly overrated.  

This is what I meant about the distinction between career value and peak value.

If we're talking careers, Gibson isn't on my list.

But if we get these guys on their best day, well, in 1968 Bob Gibson won 22 games with a 1.12 ERA in a league full of mashers.  That's one of the best seasons ever posted.

Same with Koufax: he was basically average for the first half of his career, then for five years he was the best lefthander in baseball history.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

On 4/22/2019 at 5:16 AM, Goo Punch said:

1- Pedro Martinez

2- Sandy Koufax

3- Bob Gibson 

4- Randy Johnson

5- Greg Maddux 

 

I wanted to alternate righties and lefties in my five. These aren't necessarily the guys who i think are the five best pitchers ever, I just think that it's just about my ideal staff 

Good list.  

[Beau Vine 54878]

1 hour ago, TexArcher said:

This is what I meant about the distinction between career value and peak value.

If we're talking careers, Gibson isn't on my list.

But if we get these guys on their best day, well, in 1968 Bob Gibson won 22 games with a 1.12 ERA in a league full of mashers.  That's one of the best seasons ever posted.

Same with Koufax: he was basically average for the first half of his career, then for five years he was the best lefthander in baseball history.

Gibson's 1968 was overrated, too.  "League full of mashers?"  There were only 6 guys in the majors who batted over .300.  Yaz led the AL at .301.  Two guys had OPS > 900.  Last year 11 guys had OPS > 900.  The average ERA in MLB in 1968 was under 3.00. Gibson had the best pitching year in a year where no one could hit, but that year is dogshit compared to Pedro 1999-2000.   

Edited April 26, 2019 by Beau Vine

[TexArcher 38420]

12 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Gibson's 1968 was overrated, too.  "League full of mashers?"  There were only 6 guys in the majors who batted over .300.  Yaz led the AL at .301.  Two guys had OPS > 900.  Last year 11 guys had OPS > 900.  The average ERA in MLB in 1968 was under 3.00. Gibson had the best pitching year in a year where no one could hit, but that year is dogshit compared to Pedro 1999-2000.   

Not sure what Yaz's batting average has to do with an NL pitcher in 1968.  Two guys in the NL hit over .330 that year.

Gibson's ERA was almost a full run better than the second-best ERA in the NL that year.  And he led both leagues in WAR regardless of position.

Can't believe I'm even having to defend Bob Gibson's 1968 season.  Jesus.

And I didn't say Bob Gibson's best was better than Pedro's best.  If you look closely, you'll see them both on my list.

Carry on...

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

5 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

Gibson's 1968 was overrated, too.  "League full of mashers?"  There were only 6 guys in the majors who batted over .300.  Yaz led the AL at .301.  Two guys had OPS > 900.  Last year 11 guys had OPS > 900.  The average ERA in MLB in 1968 was under 3.00. Gibson had the best pitching year in a year where no one could hit, but that year is dogshit compared to Pedro 1999-2000.   

Yeah juiced balls, and steroids.  Different game my man.

[Beau Vine 54878]

17 hours ago, TexArcher said:

Not sure what Yaz's batting average has to do with an NL pitcher in 1968.  Two guys in the NL hit over .330 that year.

Gibson's ERA was almost a full run better than the second-best ERA in the NL that year.  And he led both leagues in WAR regardless of position.

 

Okaaaaaay.

[UcancallmeSurly 451]

21 hours ago, 2005 said:

R Clemons

G Swindell 

K Dressendorfer 

T Jungmann

H Street

 

Burt Hooten..  save Huston for the pen

[jimmyjazz 46479]

Heh.  I knew the moment I saw "Bob Gibson" that Beau Vine would be here to correct everyone.

As someone who saw Bob Gibson pitch in 1968 (but I don't remember it) . . . and got to see him pitch several more times later on as a mildly aware young boy, he was a beast.

[Underdog 28873]

Gibson

Koufax

Carlton

Ryan

Hershiser

 

Mainly going with players in my lifetime(Koufax was just a hair before I began following baseball). 

[Carl Spackler 3531]

22 hours ago, TexArcher said:

This is what I meant about the distinction between career value and peak value.

If we're talking careers, Gibson isn't on my list.

But if we get these guys on their best day, well, in 1968 Bob Gibson won 22 games with a 1.12 ERA in a league full of mashers.  That's one of the best seasons ever posted.

Same with Koufax: he was basically average for the first half of his career, then for five years he was the best lefthander in baseball history.

Yeah, I had late 60's Gibson on my mind, and I toyed for a long time with putting Koufax (mid-60's version) or Pedro Martinez ('98-'02) in that spot instead.  There are good arguments for all of them, though if this is a rotation for post-season purposes, Martinez would lose out because his performance slipped a bit in the post-season.  From an overall career standpoint, I thought about Grove and Christy Mathewson.

[Goo Punch 4275]

Tom Seaver continues to be slept on in these types of discussions. Not saying that he should be in anyone's starting rotation, just that his name never seems to get mentioned in conversations like this where plenty of names get thrown out there. 

[txhorns 2413]

Sandy Koufax

Pedro Martinez

Clayton Kershaw

Roger Clemens

Greg Maddux

[orangecat92 306]

Cy young

nolan ryan

J,. R. Richard

roger clemens

....and for the college feel, I watched in person, a guy with a rubber arm in Austin, 6 team regional I think... U of Houston,  want to say his name was Coker, probably late 80s, was an absolute dog with a bone.   Heart 10 times your average major leaguer.....Larry Coker.?

i think he pitched about 20 innings that weekend.... don’t think I am exaggerating.   As an alternate, that little left handed junk ball pitcher from Pepperdine who shut us down about the same year.  We didn’t come close to that guy.  

[Goo Punch 4275]

Roger Clemens would make plenty "all time starting rotation" MLB lists, and yet I don't think he makes it as a weekend starter on the all time Texas list. Hooton is Friday, Swindell is Saturday, and then the Rocket has plenty of stiff competition for the Sunday spot. Just kind of interesting to think about. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

On 4/27/2019 at 6:49 AM, Goo Punch said:

Tom Seaver continues to be slept on in these types of discussions. Not saying that he should be in anyone's starting rotation, just that his name never seems to get mentioned in conversations like this where plenty of names get thrown out there. 

anyone older than me want to explain why this might be? 

[NeverMarryAStripper 22030]

Roger Clemens

Phil Niekro

J R Richard

Joe Niekro

Mike Scott

[Pimphand 6051]

18 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

anyone older than me want to explain why this might be? 

Probably that he toiled away on the New York Mets who outside of the 1969 Miracle Mets team sucked balls.  That and he was up against Nolan Ryan, Steve Carlton, Gaylord Perry, Fergie Jenkins, Phil Niekro, Don Sutton, and Jim Palmer in the golden age of pitching.

[Underdog 28873]

Great pitcher but I just never cared for him(Seaver), same goes for Pedro. 

[UTexasFight 9612]

Edit

Wrong thread, idiot

Edited September 16, 2021 by UTexasFight

[InkaUtexas 26359]

For fun going to go with my top five Dominican Pitchers. 

Pedro

Juan Marichal

Jose Lima

Bartolo Colon

Joiquin Andujar (Overlooked but was fun and crazy as hell) 

[TrashMaster G 17733]

Burt Hooton

Greg Swindell

Kirk Dressendorfer

Bobby Layne

Richard Wortham

 

I may be answering a slightly different question than the rest of you.

[Pimphand 6051]

Nolan Ryan
Randy Johnson
Sandy Koufax
Steve Carlton
Warren Spahn

[Beau Vine 54878]

On 9/15/2021 at 6:38 PM, shadow_operative said:

anyone older than me want to explain why this might be? 

He had kind of an odd career -- a big part of his greatness is longevity/durability, and he played 15 more years after his best season.  He also played for a lot of lousy teams.  

His career ERA+ is tied for 57th, the same as Schilling and Kevin Brown (in about the same number of years, Seaver had a lot more innings) and Roy Oswalt.  

[MaybeACoordinator 8350]

On 4/30/2019 at 9:37 PM, Goo Punch said:

Roger Clemens would make plenty "all time starting rotation" MLB lists, and yet I don't think he makes it as a weekend starter on the all time Texas list. Hooton is Friday, Swindell is Saturday, and then the Rocket has plenty of stiff competition for the Sunday spot. Just kind of interesting to think about. 

Also interesting -- in his junior year of HS, Clemens was the #3 man in the Spring Woods rotation behind two other pro prospects....Reminds me of how Santana Dotson had to ride pine at Yates b/c their dl was so stacked.

 

[Beau Vine 54878]

8 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Also interesting -- in his junior year of HS, Clemens was the #3 man in the Spring Woods rotation behind two other pro prospects....Reminds me of how Santana Dotson had to ride pine at Yates b/c their dl was so stacked.

 

This is awesome!  

Also, Rick Luecken was drafted in the first round, but chose to attend aggy instead of signing.  Three years later, he was drafted in the 12th round and didn't sign, but came back to A&M.  After his senior year, he was drafted in the 27th round: http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/profile.asp?ID=14525

Rick later became an insurance salesman in Bryan and a prolific poster on Texags.  Unfortunately, he died last month of horse dewormer poisoning after contracting Covid.  

[bluto 4947]

Clemns
Hurst
Schrld
Stanly

I can hear the jingle

[bluto 4947]

Burt Hooton
Greg Swindell
Kirk Dressendorfer
Bobby Layne
Richard Wortham
 
I may be answering a slightly different question than the rest of you.

No street love? Wiki makes the claim he had the only perfect game in SWC history. Dude threw a no no in 69 then went perfect in 70, with an effing football NC in between. Talk about riding high.

[TrashMaster G 17733]

7 hours ago, bluto said:

No street love? Wiki makes the claim he had the only perfect game in SWC history. Dude threw a no no in 69 then went perfect in 70, with an effing football NC in between. Talk about riding high.

Street was first man out in my list. 

Lots of good choices.

[Texas St. Armadillos 1381]

On 9/16/2021 at 4:01 PM, Pimphand said:

Nolan Ryan
Randy Johnson
Sandy Koufax
Steve Carlton
Warren Spahn

Substitute Bob Gibson for Steve Carlton and this is my list.

[Guadaloopy 11039]

Sidd Finch.