Israel

[DixonHur 11017]

24 minutes ago, zork said:

Hamas is the main problem, not to mention the population that elected them into leadership

Let's play a hypothetical game...suppose the UN said the US had to cede territory to Mexico to return to the 1846 border. 

Do you think the nice folks living in Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, Nevada, and California would happily abide by their new rulers?  And if not, would you consider them terrorists for trying to get their land back?

Edited May 15, 2018 by DixonHur

[hpslugga 4026]

20 minutes ago, zork said:

Israelis get to vote in PA leadership elections?  Israelis help write the Hamas charter documentation?  They build walls/fences to keep the suicide bombers out.

They build walls to encase settlement blocs. 80% of that wall in the West Bank encroaches on Palestinian territory. That has jack shit to do with suicide bombers.

[zork 629]

It would never happen as US has a UN veto.

[hpslugga 4026]

3 minutes ago, zork said:

It would never happen as US has a UN veto.

Not the point he was making.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

19 minutes ago, Purgatory County said:

But you're right. America hates Americans. It's run by 1%er koch bros trash that fucks the middle class over with literally every vote on every subject. And we put up with it cuz Hillary has a disagreeable buttocks.

Yes, the Democrats are wonderful for the middle class.  See Obamcare

[ChickenSandwich 9795]

2 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Let's play a hypothetical game...suppose the UN said the US had to cede territory to Mexico to return to the 1846 border. 

Do you think the nice folks living in Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, Nevada, and California would happily abide by their new rulers?  And if not, would you consider them terrorists for trying to get their land back?

if 100 years had passed since you were conquered, I'd say get on with it because you are never getting that land back.  Stop killing your citizens and figure out a way to deal with it and move on.  To provoke another fight is to get destroyed or try to pull the world into another world war.  Both are terrible options.  Accepting the reality of the past one hundred years is a necessary step towards the future.  I'd also hope those in AZ, NM, UT and Nevada wouldn't be purposely putting their children in harms way to curry favor with the local terrorist group.

But dead children gets more hate of the Jews.....and as we see there are plenty willing to absolve these terrible people (the parents) for using their kids for their political purposes.

I will say it is too bad you don't see this level of dedication with all of the economic migrants flooding Europe.  If we did, they would have throw out the warlords by now and wouldn't just give up on their country.  Maybe they would have a country to return to as well.

If you want less children dead, remove Hammas from Gaza, accept a token capital in Jerusalem and learn to live with the rest of the world.

[F250 28623]

15 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

I haven't read this thread yet (and probably won't) but i have a question that may already have been covered:

How is that we can give Israel $38B but we can't provide affordable healthcare in the US? 

Defense Aid money comes with a requirement that it is used to make purchases from US defense companies. Israel currently has an exemption for 40% of the aid. However that is supposed to expire at some point in the future.

In short, AIPAC and the Defense Industry do an excellent job of lobbying Congress in order to fleece the American taxpayers.

 

[zork 629]

3 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

They build walls to encase settlement blocs. 80% of that wall in the West Bank encroaches on Palestinian territory. That has jack shit to do with suicide bombers.

Parts of the wall were started in 2002 which was clearly a time when suicide bombers were very frequent guests from the Palestinian areas.  The wall has proven quite effective, certainly not perfect, at keeping out or limiting the suicide bomber strategy effectiveness.  War sucks.

[ChickenSandwich 9795]

1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

Yes, the Democrats are wonderful for the middle class.  See Obamcare

or California, Million Dollar home or homeless....import illegals to keep the yards mowed and their children raised

[hpslugga 4026]

1 minute ago, zork said:

Parts of the wall were started in 2002 which was clearly a time when suicide bombers were very frequent guests from the Palestinian areas.  The wall has proven quite effective, certainly not perfect, at keeping out or limiting the suicide bomber strategy effectiveness.  War sucks.

Again, 80% of it is built in Palestinian territory and it encases the very illegal settlement blocs, which is why the ICJ unanimously agreed that those portions of the wall are “ipso facto in violation of international humanitarian law.” To act as if that’s not the purpose is to ignore reality.

Edited May 15, 2018 by hpslugga

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Just now, hpslugga said:

Again, 80% of it is built in Palestinian territory and it encases the very illegal settlement blocs. To act as if that’s not the purpose is to ignore reality.

You should make a citizens arrest.

[jimmyjazz 45430]

3 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

if 100 years had passed since you were conquered, I'd say get on with it because you are never getting that land back.  Stop killing your citizens and figure out a way to deal with it and move on. 

LOL.  You should run for office, you're a genius.

[zork 629]

1 minute ago, hpslugga said:

Not the point he was making.

Sure, but if you understand what type of power you can wield it can make decisions that affect your outcome easy.  The Palestinians have been manipulated into near continuous fools errands for decades with the Intifadas(Arafat et al) and then the Hamas leadership failures.  That history has soured, and rightly so given the suicide bombing behaviors, fair dealings of peace for decades to come.  Israel won't forget and they shouldn't.  

The Palestinians should lay down their arms, their rockets, live in peace and police their own to do the same if they want to have any chance in the future of a stable land to raise their children.  I don't expect that to happen so the war will continue on and on and on and on.

[Fozzz 152]

Just now, F250 said:

Defense Aid money comes with a requirement that it is used to make purchases from US defense companies. Israel currently has an exemption for 40% of the aid. However that is supposed to expire at some point in the future.

In short, AIPAC and the Defense Industry do an excellent job of lobbying Congress in order to fleece the American taxpayers.

 

Don't forget Adelson, Paul Singer, Bernard Marcus, and the foundations and warmongering think-tanks they bankroll like the FDD.  

[ChickenSandwich 9795]

6 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

LOL.  You should run for office, you're a genius.

you are right, they should keep up the fight and never accept anything other than all of their demands.....if you like your dead children you can keep your dead children.  But the whole situation is Trump's fault.

[hpslugga 4026]

9 minutes ago, zork said:

Sure, but if you understand what type of power you can wield it can make decisions that affect your outcome easy.  The Palestinians have been manipulated into near continuous fools errands for decades with the Intifadas(Arafat et al) and then the Hamas leadership failures.  That history has soured, and rightly so given the suicide bombing behaviors, fair dealings of peace for decades to come.  Israel won't forget and they shouldn't.  

The Palestinians should lay down their arms, their rockets, live in peace and police their own to do the same if they want to have any chance in the future of a stable land to raise their children.  I don't expect that to happen so the war will continue on and on and on and on.

Sure

[Tuco 5076]

15 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

if 100 years had passed since you were conquered, I'd say get on with it because you are never getting that land back. 

The whole rationale for Israel is that is was their land two thousand years ago.  But now the Palestinians should fuck off because 70 years ago the British and French figured that it would make good colony for Jews, who happened to be mostly from Europe. 

Edited May 15, 2018 by Tuco

[jimmyjazz 45430]

4 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

you are right, they should keep up the fight and never accept anything other than all of their demands.....if you like your dead children you can keep your dead children.  But the whole situation is Trump's fault.

Had I said any of that you might have a point, but I didn't, and you don't.  Carry on.

[zork 629]

 

 

 

 

https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Israel-must-be-prepared-for-a-confrontation-with-Hamas-in-the-coming-summer-488111

article refers to this Hamas leadership guy:

 

Quote

Hamas Politburo Chief Khaled Mashaal, in his first response to the mysterious assassination of Mazen Fuqaha, said Hamas is in an “open war” with Israel.

“We were and we still are in an open war with the criminal enemy,” Mashaal declared Monday, speaking via video broadcast to a memorial service in Gaza for Fuqaha, who was assassinated in front of his home on Friday night.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.  Tragically sad and stupid at the same time.  

 

War it is.

 

edit:

Another brilliant quote from Hamas leadership last summer:

Quote

Since its founding in the late 1980s, Hamas has consistently backed armed confrontation with Israel and supported a number of violent attacks against it.

Mashaal added that he is confident that, ultimately, Hamas will defeat Israel.

“We don’t care if there is an imbalance of power. Our will is stronger than their force,” Mashaal remarked. “We kill them and they kill us, [but] we will defeat them in the end.”

 

Edited May 15, 2018 by zork
added another quote from Hamas leadership

[Sawbonz 27301]

4 minutes ago, Tuco said:

The whole rationale for Israel is that is was their land two thousand years ago.  But now the Palestinians should fuck off because 70 years ago the British and French figured that it would make good colony for Jews, who happened to be mostly from Europe. 

Yeah the Jews should just go back to Eastern Europe and the Iberian peninsula where they belong

[maninblack 7974]

When is Israel going to sign onto the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty?

[Hank Scorpio 17704]

 

 

[WhatTheBuck 28696]

47 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

I haven't read this thread yet (and probably won't) but i have a question that may already have been covered:

How is that we can give Israel $38B but we can't provide affordable healthcare in the US? 

Because Jewish Americans make up a substantial voting bloc in the U.S. and Israel has a powerful lobby. 

[David Dennison 18487]

27 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Yes, the Democrats are wonderful for the middle class.  See Obamcare

The Republicans would do better with the middle class but for the complete prostration to the rich. 

Trickle down and stuff.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33779]

3 minutes ago, Purgatory County said:

Obamacare has worked for me. Whereas Texas blocked me from healthcare.

Speaking of blocking, the state of Texas has never blocked a single low wage Mexican immigrant ever. This has decimated the white labor pool.

Why doesn't and didnt Texas EVER build a wall ON THEIR OWN (as per their propaganda) and preserve the jobs of the white construction laborer? Because they don't give a fuck about US Citizens and exist to greedily enrich themselves while lying to you with every syllable uttered by mouthpieces.

The GOP runs the government and there isn't brick 1 laid down to erect their fabled wall nor was there a single attempt at replacing Obamacare. Just repeal, that way they suction away your life savings later once you are too old to work in their corporate labyrinths.

It's de facto slavery. Whatever they pay you, they steal back later, meaning you worked for free your entire life and then die 10 years before your European counterpart in a filthy county facility. This is their model. Genocide and slavery.

Soylent Green is people and oil is literally "raising hell".

Fuck the right.  They are rapacious Hitlerian murderers and they prey on the fucking stupid and cowardly! I mean good god, ...

trump!!!!

I like this guy (or girl, I'm not assuming your gender.... *snicker*)

[WhatTheBuck 28696]

27 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

if 100 years had passed since you were conquered, I'd say get on with it because you are never getting that land back.

Lol. Are you seriously saying that in defense of Israel? If we'd followed that advice in 1917 then we wouldn't be having this problem. 

[hpslugga 4026]

21 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

 

 

While I'm aware this is an Onion posting, it's not a stretch from reality. Read "Breaking the Silence," which is a recount of Operation Cast Lead based on what IDF soldiers told to the interviewers. In fact, just Find/Search the word "insane" and see how many times that word comes up in the context of a sentence that reads, in one variation or another, "we used insane amounts of firepower." One soldier likened it to using a magnifying glass to burn ants. Another likened it to a Playstation game...

...but you'll also notice that they keep referring to the fact that they rarely, if ever, actually saw with their own eyes any Hamas militants and that there were no real battles...soooooo, why the "insane amounts of firepower," again?

[BrazilHorn 6575]

35 minutes ago, zork said:

 

 

 

 

https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Israel-must-be-prepared-for-a-confrontation-with-Hamas-in-the-coming-summer-488111

article refers to this Hamas leadership guy:

 

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.  Tragically sad and stupid at the same time.  

 

War it is.

 

edit:

Another brilliant quote from Hamas leadership last summer:

 

At first I thought the guy featured in the photo riding in the truck in the brighter green camo was Curry from Golden State photoshopped into the picture.

[Tuco 5076]

33 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Yeah the Jews should just go back to Eastern Europe and the Iberian peninsula where they belong

I'm not saying that.

In retrospect, do you believe the creation of Israel was morally justified because they had a country there two thousand years ago?

[Sawbonz 27301]

I don’t think what is moral has anything to do with most of what happens during and after wars, and this is a spoils of war thing. Until the 20th century no one would give a fuck about whose land it was historically, only who occupied it and did they have the might and will to hold it. Ww2 changed that

 

I do know that segments of the Jewish diaspora have been trying to get back to the “promised land” for 2000 years. I know that a legitimate attempt was made last century to exterminate the entirety of the Jewish population, and this occurred on the heels of centuries of severe oppression at the hands of pretty much every “host” state that temporarily let them reside in it, and pretty much all of these hosts eventually expelled and / or killed them. So I can see how a segment of them would be ultranationalists and, when given a chance to have their own state, will do close to anything to protect/preserve it

Couple that with another displaced population every bit as nationalistic claiming the exact same piece of earth, with the stated goal not of coexistence but rather replacement, and I don’t see any way other than violence to settle it

 

 

Edited May 15, 2018 by Sawbonz

[Fozzz 152]

I guess it's one of those "both sides do it" deals.

[Sawbonz 27301]

Nah the Palestinians are simply misunderstood. Those suicide bombers and attacks by neighboring Arab states are no big deal

Edited May 15, 2018 by Sawbonz

[Fozzz 152]

Do you support apartheid, Sawbonz?

[Sawbonz 27301]

No. Do you support suicide bombings?

[Fozzz 152]

tbh it would depend on the context.  Who is bombing whom and for what reason?  I don't think I would support it against civilians, but I fail to see why it is categorically worse than bombing civilians, as we do all the time.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Fozzz

[Sawbonz 27301]

Do you think a sovereign state has a duty to protect its citizens from suicide bombers?

[Fozzz 152]

It would have the right to criminally prosecute those personally involved with the bombing.  I don't think that forms a basis for displacing and imprisoning entire ethnic groups though.  

[Tuco 5076]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

Do you think a sovereign state has a duty to protect its citizens from suicide bombers?

As with everything, I think there is a balance.  Set up metal detectors for government buildings, sure.  Firebombing neighborhoods just to be sure, no.  Shooting unarmed 13 year olds at a protest would certainly be on the "no" side of the balance.

[Fozzz 152]

Rule of thumb: ethnic cleansing is bad.  

[Hank Scorpio 17704]

How can the IDF be expected to stop the disabled people AND the rope tied to fence? These filthy Palestinians will stop at nothing! 

[Lagunamadre 1975]

5 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Do you think a sovereign state has a duty to protect its citizens from suicide bombers?

Do you believe in mass shootings? Should we start shooting people who open carry because they might be a mass shooter? 

[Fozzz 152]

There could be a rock hidden within that lady's walking cane.  Two rounds to the head just to be safe.  

[Sawbonz 27301]

The “unarmed” is interesting. BBC the world had a reporter onsite yesterday. She kept correcting the in studio host every time she described them as unarmed. 3 times she stopped the host to say no, they are throwing firebombs and trying to attach firebombs to kites to fly over the fence. 

It’s a horrible situation

 

Edited May 15, 2018 by Sawbonz

[Fozzz 152]

Any video of these firebombers from yesterday?

[Sawbonz 27301]

BBC the world is radio so no

[Brisketexan 104238]

5 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

The “unarmed” is interesting. BBC the world has a reporter onsite yesterday. She kept correcting the in studio host every time she described them as unarmed. 3 time should she stopped the host to say no, they are throwing firebombs and trying to attach firebombs to kites to fly over the fence. 

It’s a horrible situation

 

It truly is (oh, and to back up Sawbonz, NPR folks on the ground were making the same correction, even noting that SOME Palestinians were using live ammunition).

And, as is almost always the case with these two particular players, everyone involved shares blame and should be kicked in the balls.  But it's the same-old same-old -- Hamas riles up the poor masses and tells them to attack; Israel gives Hamas what they want (martyrs) and uses lethal force like a mofo.

It's like two brothers who are always a second away from fighting about everything.  Yeah, I blame them -- I blame the hell outta them.

But you know who else I blame?  The dumb SOB who, for no good reason, threw a match into the bucket of gasoline.  Trump did the equivalent of telling one brother "hey, he said you're a limpdick"....the only thing more shameful than pointlessly igniting this violence is those folks who try to deny that we tossed the match.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Brisketexan

[Fozzz 152]

5 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

BBC the world is radio so no

So no one else had video?  Pictures?  I ask this because Neri Zilber was saying the IDF provided said video but no one seems to actually have seen it.

https://twitter.com/adamjohnsonNYC/status/996379559451938816

Edited May 15, 2018 by Fozzz

[Sawbonz 27301]

A bbc reporter as eyewitness is good for me. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

15 minutes ago, Lagunamadre said:

Do you believe in mass shootings? Should we start shooting people who open carry because they might be a mass shooter? 

[Fozzz 152]

I might have a higher evidentiary standard when we're talking slaughtering dozens of people, but to each their own.