Israel

[956 Worldwide 34785]

3 hours ago, GW Hayduke said:

I didn’t see the reporting. Are you referring to what you saw on Twitter?

Yes, it was on Twitter and it’s also in the Washington Post. Serious question, what’s your play here? Did you really think it didn’t happen?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/07/israel-gaza-hamas-attack-palestinians/

 

Quote

Tom Weintraub Louk, 30, told The Washington Post that her first cousin, Shani Louk, was missing after militants overran an outdoor dance party near Kibbutz Urim on Saturday morning.

As news of the attack circulated, family members tried to contact Shani, who is in her early 20s. “We knew she was in the party. She didn’t answer,” said Louk. Family members also failed to get through to her Mexican boyfriend.

Quote

Later in the morning, as videos of hostage-takings flew across social media, another cousin recognized Shani in one of them — in the back of a pickup truck, surrounded by armed militants. Louk has not been able to bring herself to watch the video, but Shani’s parents have. “We recognized her by the tattoos, and she has long dreadlocks,” she said.

The family is still waiting for news. “We have some kind of hope,” Louk said. “Hamas is responsible for her and the others.”

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/International/wireStory/palestinian-militants-launch-dozens-rockets-israel-sirens-heard-103802009
 

Quote

In some towns, civilians’ bodies lay where they had encountered advancing gunmen. At least nine people gunned down at a bus shelter in the town of Sderot were laid out on stretchers on the street, their bags still on the curb nearby. One woman, screaming, embraced the body of a family member sprawled under a sheet next to a toppled motorcycle.

 

[Smax 3800]

2 hours ago, Horn80 said:

What?  No snakes?

 

 

Figured it out, the right only care about "war" in areas that

1. Have oil

2. areas that their book of fairy tales says is important because some asshole that lives in the sky is supposed to return to

[Willfully Horn 8050]

Didn’t see this posted. According to this NBC report, today’s attack was meant to exploit political divisions within Israel, and to derail peace talks between Israel, SA, and the U.S.

Quote

Hamas' unprecedented attack on Israel comes at a time when the country faces historic domestic political division, growing violence in the West Bank, and high-stakes negotiations between Israel, Saudi Arabia and the United States. 

After its members killed 200 Israelis and kidnapped dozens more, Hamas claimed it was taking revenge for a series of recent actions by Israel at Jerusalem’s Al Asqa mosque and in the West Bank. But Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s coalition government has been conducting an escalating crackdown against what it says are rising Palestinian terror attacks for more than a year.

 

Former U.S. intelligence and military officers said they believed the timing of the Hamas attack was primarily aimed at disrupting negotiations between Israel and Saudi Arabia as Riyadh appeared on the verge of a historic step to normalize relations with Israel. 

Iran is seeking “to put pressure on their implacable foe Israel” with this attack, said retired Navy admiral James Stavridis, the former commander of NATO.

In an interview with NBC News‘ Lester Holt last month, Iranian President Ebrahim Raisi said, “we are against any bilateral relations between our regional countries and the Zionist regime,” a reference to Israel. Raisi added, “We believe that the Zionist regime is intending to normalize this bilateral relations with the regional countries to create security for itself in the region.”

In recent weeks, diplomats from the U.S., Israel and Saudi Arabia have told NBC News that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and U.S. President Joe Biden have all expressed support for an agreement that would result in Saudi Arabia recognizing Israel diplomatically.

Diplomats say that if Saudi Arabia agreed to recognize Israel it would lead other Arab states to do so. A series of such agreement would end decades of hostility between Israel and its neighbors dating back to 1948.

All three sides, though, have complex conditions for such an agreement. Breaking with past Saudi rulers, bin Salman has signaled that he is willing to recognize Israel, given the vast economic benefits it would provide to Saudi Arabia. Before the Hamas attack, there were reports that Saudi Arabia had told the White House it would agree to increase its oil production to help cement a deal, something the Biden White House has sought for two years.

But the Saudis want the U.S. to help them develop a civilian nuclear program, something opposed by hard-right members of Netanyahu’s coalition and by members of the U.S. Senate, which would have to approve any such deal.

Separately, President Biden told Prime Minister Netanyahu when they met in New York last month that any agreement would have to include land for the Palestinians so that they could establish a viable state, something Netanyahu’s settlement extensions in the West Bank would prevent. Last week, a bipartisan group of Senators raised the same concerns in a letter to the White House.

The West Bank, meanwhile, remains the scene of rising attacks by Israeli settlers on Palestinians. Israeli settlers have violently attacked Palestinians at least 700 times in 2023 — the highest number on record, according to the UN’s humanitarian agency (OCHA). 

Israel’s far-right National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir praised the expansion of the settlements, calling for more. Netanyahu’s far-right government responded with plans to build 5,000 new Israeli settlements. Israeli settlements built on Palestinian land are illegal according to international law, and have been condemned by the U.S. government.

 

As the talks with the Saudis, Israelis and Americans progressed, Palestinian disappointment rose. “There is a palpable frustration among the Palestinians at seeing the Saudis and Israelis moving closer,” said Stavridis.

Netanyahu has also stoked domestic division among Israelis as he has pushed a judicial reform that would weaken Israel’s Supreme Court, a move that sparked mass protest across the country. 

The first portion of reform passed in March after The Knesset, the Israeli parliament, enacted a law that protected a prime minister from being removed from power. It stipulated that the prime minister could only be ousted for health or mental health reasons, and only the leader and their office could make that decision.

The judicial reform came after Netanyhu  forced multiple elections in recent years as the prime minister struggled to remain in power. Critics denounced the court reforms by noting that it would weaken the democratic checks of power within Israel, some even noting that it was tailor made to keep Netanyahu in leadership after he faced allegations of corruption. 

A second part of the reforms passed in July would prevent the court from declaring government decisions unreasonable. A poll from Israel’s Channel 13 that month found 56% of Israelis feared the judicial reform would spark a civil war.
 

Starvidis, the former admiral, said that Hamas and its patrons viewed the deep political divisions in Israel as a potential opportunity to strike. There is a sense among Israel’s adversaries that it “has never been more divided, never been weaker, never been more torn apart, he said.

Israeli author and Yediyot Ahronot senior columnist Nadav Eyal predicted in an interview that the attack would transform the country further. “This event was a national trauma. It’s like 9/11 but frankly bigger,” he said. “We have dozens of people who are abducted—civilians.”

Eyal said that, no matter the country's divisions, Israel would respond militarily. “This really forces Israel to react with the utmost force,” he added. “There is a consensus with the Israeli public and the political sphere that this changes everything in the region and for Israelis.”

 Israel is guilty of crimes against the Palestinians, including the mentioned attacks by Israeli settlers this year. But seeking peace with the Saudis isn’t among them.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/significance-hamas-chose-attack-israel-now-rcna119351

 

[Aqua Buddha 14621]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

I can’t come up with what Hamas’s play was here….other than getting manipulated by Iran and Russia into serving their ends (fucking shut up).
Hamas and Palestinians in Gaza are going to suffer greatly. Which is how Hamas’s “allies” want it. Utterly stupid. But that’s the order of the day.

It's more about the people than it is the leadership.  Leadership just gives people what they want.  They dragged corpses of women and children through the cities and people literally cheered.  You can negotiated with leadership all you want but if their followers have that kind of blood lust, you can only do so much.

Israel is rolling in a endless column of M-1's.  Those aren't for "we'll go door to door to find the perps."  They're rolling those in to blow the place to hell.

Good.  These people need to be conquered.  

[Degenerate Gardner 4085]

6 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

It's more about the people than it is the leadership.  Leadership just gives people what they want.  They dragged corpses of women and children through the cities and people literally cheered.  You can negotiated with leadership all you want but if their followers have that kind of blood lust, you can only do so much.

Israel is rolling in a endless column of M-1's.  Those aren't for "we'll go door to door to find the perps."  They're rolling those in to blow the place to hell.

Good.  These people need to be conquered.  

They will bleed but they won’t be conquered.

[LCHorn 2632]

I’m sure we all agree that the world is better without an empire taking slaves from client states and making eunuchs or janissaries from them but it did seem to limit these kinds of hopeless rebellions.  

[Aqua Buddha 14621]

3 minutes ago, Degenerate Gardner said:

They will bleed but they won’t be conquered.

Everyone can be conquered if you have the stomach for it.

Level the place and then put a siege on them and not let food or medicine in.  They’ll surrender.

[NoRagrets 1125]

If the US allows it, they’ll level everything and make a DMZ to buffer their border. 

[tx 3 putt 77458]

It’s a war. Any area launching rockets should be leveled, yes I know they’re using mobile rocket launchers 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8822]

This is absolutely insanity.

[tchookem 3919]

 
 
Figured it out, the right only care about "war" in areas that
1. Have oil
2. areas that their book of fairy tales says is important because some asshole that lives in the sky is supposed to return to

So who's 5th sock are we dealing with now?

[Brian Fantana 6690]

49 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

It's more about the people than it is the leadership.  Leadership just gives people what they want.  They dragged corpses of women and children through the cities and people literally cheered.  You can negotiated with leadership all you want but if their followers have that kind of blood lust, you can only do so much.

Nice to know that the thousands upon thousands of dead Palestinians in Gaza over the years doesn't move the needle for you, but a few dead Israelis does. Really makes you think.

PS: They live in the world's largest open air prison, have more and more of their lands, property, and lives stolen every day. They are already as conquered as they're going to get. This is what oppressed people do, they kill their oppressors whenever they get the chance.

Make no mistake, there is one party with all the power to end the bloodshed in this situation, and it ain't the Palestinians.

Well, technically two, because we could end it as well, but the point stands.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Brian Fantana

[Willfully Horn 8050]

This piece speaks to the intent behind the live streaming of violence and humiliation. And it makes a case for how Israel will cast aside whatever restraint they believe they have used with the Palestinians.

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/a-wounded-weakened-israel-is-a-fiercer-one/

[WhatTheBuck 28801]

19 hours ago, FORTY NINE TO ZERO said:

Hamas just lost any sympathy they might have had in the west.  these videos of going door to door, pulling out women in their underwear sexually assaulting and shooting in the head are horrific.  

 

18 hours ago, horn_of_the_morning said:

The videos of jihadis assaulting women while shouting "allahu akbar" are absolutely horrific (not gonna post them here). I hope these goatfuckers are sent back to 6th century after this.

Where are you seeing these videos?

[Neonmoon 38130]

7 hours ago, Smax said:

 

 

Figured it out, the right only care about "war" in areas that

1. Have oil

2. areas that their book of fairy tales says is important because some asshole that lives in the sky is supposed to return to

The right doesn’t care about war. They care about power. You are always wrong. They are always right. The details don’t matter. 

[WhatTheBuck 28801]

5 hours ago, Willfully Horn said:

And it makes a case for how Israel will cast aside whatever restraint they believe they have used with the Palestinians

Are they going to treat them more violently now? Will they kick more of them out of their homes and steal more of their land and hope that will stop the terrorist attacks?

[Horn80 6131]

8 hours ago, Smax said:

 

 

Figured it out, the right only care about "war" in areas that

1. Have oil

2. areas that their book of fairy tales says is important because some asshole that lives in the sky is supposed to return to

I figured it out too.  Both the right and left make money from war.

[Anastasis 23486]

7 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Nice to know that the thousands upon thousands of dead Palestinians in Gaza over the years doesn't move the needle for you, but a few dead Israelis does. Really makes you think.

They didn’t have good enough Twitter publicists to make some posters feeds. 

[BrickHorn 18286]

This is like a modern day Comanche raid. 

[956 Worldwide 34785]

45 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

They didn’t have good enough Twitter publicists to make some posters feeds. 

The filming of executions, kidnappings, hostage-taking, and corpse desecration wasn’t done or circulated by Israeli propagandists.  A key difference in the two sides, Hamas considers the circulation of those images to be good propaganda for themselves. 
 

“Shooting up a hippie peace music festival and carrying off the women is never OK” is a shockingly low bar to clear and you can tell that brains are broken when people can’t get over it. 

[Anastasis 23486]

No one is defending shooting up a festival dipshit. And if you think that is the point that posters above are making, I am not sure anyone should take lectures from you on the big picture role of propaganda in this one. 

[SizzleChest 8284]

33 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

This is like a modern day Comanche raid. 

In 200 years, the Palestinians will have land they govern, but don't own.  And the odds on craps and free slot play will be amazing.

[6th Street 6508]

https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-755413

Maybe they will bulldoze more Palestinian schools and villages in the West Bank in response?

 

 

[WhatTheBuck 28801]

23 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-755413

Maybe they will bulldoze more Palestinian schools and villages in the West Bank in response?

They were going to do that anyway. 

[Bullneck 19212]

In this week's edition of Goyim Observations, we speak with Bullneck, world renown numbskull:

"I heard once that most of what is modern day Israel was just desert, kinda like the area between Pecos and El Paso.  Then the Jews were looking for a site for a post-Holocaust homeland and all Europeans said NIMBY.  Finally the British said, "Welp, Lancashire is off limits but we got some land we'll give you for free.  It's right over there.  Over there (pointing).  Just head out a thousand miles or kilometers and you're home!  In the Holy Land. What's not to like?"

So, the kinfolk moved to Galilee, as the song goes.  Eventually the Israelis got tired of the Brits and tried to blow them up in the King David Hotel. And the other countries in the area weren't super happy about things either.  But the real issue is what about the people who were already there and what kind of "deal" they got when Israel was created.

Now that Israel is developed and prosperous and looks like Souther California from the air (I thought i was landing at LAX the one time I flew into Tel Aviv) and has a lot of people, there is some tension.  Also, only about half of the people in Israel are Jews, the rest are Arab and since they multiply on the Boebert timeline eventually they will minority majority. 

I think that last part is the root of the latest ultra right wing moves Bibi is making.  They are ready to do whatever it takes to ensure the Jewish state survives, no matter the cost or political damage.  I can recall 30ish years ago hearing about Israel bulldozing non-Jewish housing and building settlements, which is likely to piss people off. 

The level of violence has gotten so bad the Israelis have walled off the Gaza Strip (governed by Hamas, which is significantly worse than the government of the West Bank). I disagree with Brian Fantana's assessment that Gaza is an open air prison.  They have access to the Med, which should be worth something.  The problem is they have a significant population of extremists that can't control themselves." 

Anyone with actual knowledge want to fact check this?

Edited October 8, 2023 by Bullneck

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652]

3 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

 

Where are you seeing these videos?

they were all over twitter and some of the more obscure subreddits durning and the hours right after the raid 

Edited October 8, 2023 by FORTY NINE TO ZERO

[Aqua Buddha 14621]

9 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Nice to know that the thousands upon thousands of dead Palestinians in Gaza over the years doesn't move the needle for you, but a few dead Israelis does. Really makes you think.

PS: They live in the world's largest open air prison, have more and more of their lands, property, and lives stolen every day. They are already as conquered as they're going to get. This is what oppressed people do, they kill their oppressors whenever they get the chance.

Make no mistake, there is one party with all the power to end the bloodshed in this situation, and it ain't the Palestinians.

Well, technically two, because we could end it as well, but the point stands.

Let's go with that point of view.

Assuming all of that were true and the Palestinians merely wanted a peaceful state of their own, why not use passive mass resistance like Ghandi, MLK, or Mandela?  The world would be very sympathetic like it was with those three.  Taken to an extreme, instead of suicide bombings, why not have someone commit suicide in the town square every day until the "occupation" ends?  The world would be horrified and it would end by next week.

But it's not really about that.  They don't want their own country.  That's no fun.  Who picks up the trash?  Who makes the trains run on time?  Rather, it's about a pile of dead Jews.  

[BamaATL 16593]

So a question for those more versed in our agreements, what happens if Israel attacks Iran?  I know we have a defense pact, what about this?  Are we in it at that point?  

 

[Anastasis 23486]

2 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

So a question for those more versed in our agreements, what happens if Israel attacks Iran?

John McCain’s corpse starts masturbating furiously. 

[Doc Sam Beckett 5797]

4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

John McCain’s corpse starts masturbating furiously. 

You're such an asshole, but this got a legit laugh out loud 

[Brian Fantana 6690]

6 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Let's go with that point of view.

Assuming all of that were true and the Palestinians merely wanted a peaceful state of their own, why not use passive mass resistance like Ghandi, MLK, or Mandela?  The world would be very sympathetic like it was with those three.  Taken to an extreme, instead of suicide bombings, why not have someone commit suicide in the town square every day until the "occupation" ends?  The world would be horrified and it would end by next week.

But it's not really about that.  They don't want their own country.  That's no fun.  Who picks up the trash?  Who makes the trains run on time?  Rather, it's about a pile of dead Jews.  

My guy, you need to educate yourself on what's actually going on in Gaza. I don't know if your head is deliberately buried in the sand or not, but they DO peacefully protest, A LOT, and they get killed for it, A LOT.

Israel has committed the crime of apartheid. They have been squeezing the life out of Palestinians and occupied Palestinian territories for years. Violent revolution is the natural and only course of action these people have left. They have no hope. The Israeli and American war machines have them crushed under their boots. What choice to they have but to rise up? Who is going to come to their aid when anyone who tries will be met with the barrel of a gun courtesy of the American military industrial complex?

Israel continues to destroy and/or annex Palestinian property/lands at a steady rate, slowly squeezing them to death, often displacing and/or killing hundreds or thousands at a time seemingly indiscriminately. Israeli settlers often forcefully displace Palestinians from their own homes, and these actions are sanctioned by the state. If they are retaliated against, the result is more murder. They imprison and torture Palestinian detainees regularly, including children. They deliberately destroy the environment in Gaza, including pouring concrete in water wells, destroying crops by spraying herbicides in the buffer zone despite international outcry. They murder or deports journalists (or drone strike their offices) that try to show the world what is happening.

The fact that we still back these people with full-throated support across the board and with the full might of our military is disgusting.

Israel has turned into the very oppressors that they and we previously guarded against.

[Aqua Buddha 14621]

So, great, how does pulling women out of cars and shooting them in the head accomplish anything and what does it accomplish?

Also, what kind of country would "Palestine" be?  What would be their economy?  Would they be a peaceful neighbor?

[Brisketexan 105382]

Let's go with that point of view.
Assuming all of that were true and the Palestinians merely wanted a peaceful state of their own, why not use passive mass resistance like Ghandi, MLK, or Mandela?  The world would be very sympathetic like it was with those three.  Taken to an extreme, instead of suicide bombings, why not have someone commit suicide in the town square every day until the "occupation" ends?  The world would be horrified and it would end by next week.
But it's not really about that.  They don't want their own country.  That's no fun.  Who picks up the trash?  Who makes the trains run on time?  Rather, it's about a pile of dead Jews.  

This.
The Palestinian cause has a stunning ability to repeatedly shit away their status as the sympathetic party in the local conflict.
That is largely because they are useful idiots perpetually being played by much larger nation states (over the years, that means Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iran, Qatar) to be the turd in the punch bowl of any potential Middle East peace. Arab and Muslim countries have a strong interest in having a perpetual “evil enemy,” as it helps shitty, oppressive states unite their people. So, “forever war” against Israel is a key to maintaining power. And what better way to wage war than with useful idiots you’ve never actually helped anyway (note how very little, proportionately, of the Arab oil wealth has ever gone to helping Palestinians)?
Israel regularly does itself no favors. Recent heavy-handedness included. It creates a narrative that makes it much easier for their enemies to foment anger and violent action. And around we go.
One thing is certain. The lot of the Palestinians in Gaza is about to get much worse. That is the lot of a people who launch a war. That the nation states that urged them to do so will not suffer similarly is the way of the world. It’s a stupid way.

[Brian Fantana 6690]

25 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

So, great, how does pulling women out of cars and shooting them in the head accomplish anything and what does it accomplish?

Nothing, and no one is condoning it, so I'm not sure what your point is.

My point is, violent revolution is inevitable when you squeeze a people to death.

What's your solution, kill them all? Probably. Thanks for engaging in good faith. And by that, I mean, not engaging with a single one of my fucking points you absolute fucking moron.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Brian Fantana

[956 Worldwide 34785]

1 hour ago, Bullneck said:

In this week's edition of Goyim Observations, we speak with Bullneck, world renown numbskull:

"I heard once that most of what is modern day Israel was just desert, kinda like the area between Pecos and El Paso.  Then the Jews were looking for a site for a post-Holocaust homeland and all Europeans said NIMBY.  Finally the British said, "Welp, Lancashire is off limits but we got some land we'll give you for free.  It's right over there.  Over there (pointing).  Just head out a thousand miles or kilometers and you're home!  In the Holy Land. What's not to like?"

So, the kinfolk moved to Galilee, as the song goes.  Eventually the Israelis got tired of the Brits and tried to blow them up in the King David Hotel. And the other countries in the area weren't super happy about things either.  But the real issue is what about the people who were already there and what kind of "deal" they got when Israel was created.

Now that Israel is developed and prosperous and looks like Souther California from the air (I thought i was landing at LAX the one time I flew into Tel Aviv) and has a lot of people, there is some tension.  Also, only about half of the people in Israel are Jews, the rest are Arab and since they multiply on the Boebert timeline eventually they will minority majority. 

I think that last part is the root of the latest ultra right wing moves Bibi is making.  They are ready to do whatever it takes to ensure the Jewish state survives, no matter the cost or political damage.  I can recall 30ish years ago hearing about Israel bulldozing non-Jewish housing and building settlements, which is likely to piss people off. 

The level of violence has gotten so bad the Israelis have walled off the Gaza Strip (governed by Hamas, which is significantly worse than the government of the West Bank). I disagree with Brian Fantana's assessment that Gaza is an open air prison.  They have access to the Med, which should be worth something.  The problem is they have a significant population of extremists that can't control themselves." 

Anyone with actual knowledge want to fact check this?

There’s important context in that Israel un-occupied Gaza in 2005 and shortly afterward Gaza brought Hamas into power.  A group that has the destruction of Israel and genocide of Jews written into its founding documents.  
 

 

[Brian Fantana 6690]

Yeah I mean I think it's important to note that I understand everything bad about Hamas. My sympathy extends to the Palestinian people, and my anger towards Israel stems from the fact that they are quickly becoming the oppressors they have long fled, and that descent into fascism is firmly backed by us.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20496]

[956 Worldwide 34785]

Framing what happened on Saturday as “violent revolution” sort of does legitimize it.  A lot happened, and sure— IDF installations, police stations, key infrastructure counts as legitimate targets. 
 

Rape, murder, kidnapping, hostage-taking— these are crimes and terrorism in any conflict or context and we shouldn’t choke on our words or wave our hands and say it was somehow unavoidable. 

[6th Street 6508]

 

Some of these dudes in the West Bank and Gaza have reached their breaking point.

[6th Street 6508]

1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Let's go with that point of view.

Assuming all of that were true and the Palestinians merely wanted a peaceful state of their own, why not use passive mass resistance like Ghandi, MLK, or Mandela?  The world would be very sympathetic like it was with those three.  Taken to an extreme, instead of suicide bombings, why not have someone commit suicide in the town square every day until the "occupation" ends?  The world would be horrified and it would end by next week.

But it's not really about that.  They don't want their own country.  That's no fun.  Who picks up the trash?  Who makes the trains run on time?  Rather, it's about a pile of dead Jews.  

Do you feel like the Ukrainians should use passive resistance against Putin after being invaded as well?

[Doc Sam Beckett 5797]

23 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

There's a couple of bombs behind that Levi's shirt

[956 Worldwide 34785]

2 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

Do you feel like the Ukrainians should use passive resistance against Putin after being invaded as well?

 

If the Ukrainians kidnapped elderly people and shot them at bus stops or were holding a bunch of Russian kids hostage, or parading dead naked bodies around, that would be bad too and people would say they shouldn’t do it. 
 

But it’s the Russians that do those things in Ukraine and it’s what Hamas did yesterday, so get fucked with the moral equivalence.  

[Gatorubet 30319]

1 hour ago, Brian Fantana said:

My guy, you need to educate yourself on what's actually going on in Gaza. I don't know if your head is deliberately buried in the sand or not, but they DO peacefully protest, A LOT, and they get killed for it, A LOT.

Israel has committed the crime of apartheid. They have been squeezing the life out of Palestinians and occupied Palestinian territories for years. Violent revolution is the natural and only course of action these people have left. They have no hope. The Israeli and American war machines have them crushed under their boots. What choice to they have but to rise up? Who is going to come to their aid when anyone who tries will be met with the barrel of a gun courtesy of the American military industrial complex?

Israel continues to destroy and/or annex Palestinian property/lands at a steady rate, slowly squeezing them to death, often displacing and/or killing hundreds or thousands at a time seemingly indiscriminately. Israeli settlers often forcefully displace Palestinians from their own homes, and these actions are sanctioned by the state. If they are retaliated against, the result is more murder. They imprison and torture Palestinian detainees regularly, including children. They deliberately destroy the environment in Gaza, including pouring concrete in water wells, destroying crops by spraying herbicides in the buffer zone despite international outcry. They murder or deports journalists (or drone strike their offices) that try to show the world what is happening.

The fact that we still back these people with full-throated support across the board and with the full might of our military is disgusting.

Israel has turned into the very oppressors that they and we previously guarded against.

If you total Israeli civilians killed by Palestinian terrorists and Palestinian civilians killed by Israeli military and police, it is not even close.   Nobody condones Hamas terrorism, but it is not like Israel is some innocent actor if you compare death tolls.  

When you are the weaker party you use terrorism.  Which is why supporters of a Jewish state bombed hotels and such at the birth of Israel.  If you do not have an army equal to the opposition, that happens.   And no, Israel cannot not respond to that horrible attack on its citizens.   I do not care how abused you are, executing women and children will not convince anyone of the rightness of your cause, and sure as shit does not work when you style yourself as a victim.  Sad all around. 

[956 Worldwide 34785]

 

[Gidnik 3285]

Glad i went when i did.  

[6th Street 6508]

12 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

 

If the Ukrainians kidnapped elderly people and shot them at bus stops or were holding a bunch of Russian kids hostage, or parading dead naked bodies around, that would be bad too and people would say they shouldn’t do it. 
 

But it’s the Russians that do those things in Ukraine and it’s what Hamas did yesterday, so get fucked with the moral equivalence.  

Israelis routinely kill kids, blow up hospitals, and bulldoze villages. You cannot oppress a minority and not expect any repercussion.

[Brian Fantana 6690]

16 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

If you total Israeli civilians killed by Palestinian terrorists and Palestinian civilians killed by Israeli military and police, it is not even close.   Nobody condones Hamas terrorism, but it is not like Israel is some innocent actor if you compare death tolls.  

When you are the weaker party you use terrorism.  Which is why supporters of a Jewish state bombed hotels and such at the birth of Israel.  If you do not have an army equal to the opposition, that happens.   And no, Israel cannot not respond to that horrible attack on its citizens.   I do not care how abused you are, executing women and children will not convince anyone of the rightness of your cause, and sure as shit does not work when you style yourself as a victim.  Sad all around. 

Indeed.

[Gatorubet 30319]

2 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Let's go with that point of view.Assuming all of that were true and the Palestinians merely wanted a peaceful state of their own, why not use passive mass resistance like Ghandi, MLK, or Mandela?    

I have numerous Jewish friends whose backing of Israel is cult-like.  There is simply nothing that will provoke severe condemnation for any action by Israel.   And as many think God gave those European Jews the right to Palestinian land, that precludes conversation on the subject - like an abortion rights conversation would go with Evangelicals.   Once God gives the okey-doke on an issue, secular discussion is foreclosed.  Add the calls for Israel’s destruction by many Arab states over the decades, and passive resistance by Palestinians won’t get you much traction.  

[956 Worldwide 34785]

16 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

Israelis routinely kill kids, blow up hospitals, and bulldoze villages. You cannot oppress a minority and not expect any repercussion.

You moved pretty smoothly from “what if Ukrainians did these things” to “it’s OK if Hamas does.”  It’s pretty clear you just want to say it’s OK for Hamas to do these things so why bring in the Ukrainians (who manage to not be terrorists despite being occupied and weaker and subject to real, no-shit genocidal treatment) to the conversation? 

[Neonmoon 38130]

A: Israel was attacked. Do they not have a right to defend themselves? 
B: Palestinians are being terrorized by Israel every day. The Hamas military commander Muhammad Al-Deif called the operation “Al-Aqsa Storm” and said that the assault on Israel was a response to attacks on women, the desecration of the al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem and the ongoing siege of Gaza.

A: Israel didn’t desecrate the Al-Aqsa mosque, some Jewish people visited it. It wasn’t sanctioned by the Israeli government. Israel has a blockage of Gaza because it’s controlled by Hamas, a terrorist group that regularly shoots rockets at Israel and sends suicide bombers to kill Israelis
B: Hamas sends suicide bombers to kill Israelis because Israel keeps stealing Palestinian lands 

A: Israel didn’t steal any land. They won the land in a war the Palestinians started 

B: The Palestinians only started a war because the Jews were forced into their land

A: Jews migrated to Palestine because the British said they could. 
B: Palestinians do not recognize the Balfour Declaration and don’t like the British 

A: Well they should of fought harder to not be conquered by the British during WW1

 

The same arguments over and over again