Israel

[bolverk 29671]

1 minute ago, statsman said:

Is that supposed to be me?

The things I post on Ukraine here, on Daily Texan, I also post on ON3. The same things.  Over there, I am considered a Ukrainian stooge. 

Pretty sure he was referring to Boss Hogg, who is widely suspected of being GRhorn.

[wildcat09 29353]

2 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Pretty sure he was referring to Boss Hogg, who is widely suspected of being GRhorn.

Esto.

[Nivek 16927]

On 1/30/2024 at 8:09 AM, InkaUtexas said:

Not a good look at all. I mean if they are locked up in a hospital, block their phones? Let them sit there and eat the crap food? Nah, lets dress up and go kill these three inside.

JENIN, West Bank (AP) — Israeli forces disguised as civilian women and medical workers stormed a hospital Tuesday in the occupied West Bank, killing three Palestinian militants in a dramatic raid that underscored how deadly violence has spilled into the territory from the war in Gaza.

The Palestinian Health Ministry said Israeli forces opened fire inside the wards of the Ibn Sina Hospital in the town of Jenin. The ministry condemned the raid and called on the international community to pressure Israel’s military to halt such operations in hospitals. A hospital spokesperson said there was no exchange of fire, indicating that it was a targeted killing.

The military said the militants were using the hospital as a hideout, without providing evidence. It alleged that one of those targeted in the raid had transferred weapons and ammunition to others for a planned attack, purportedly inspired by the Hamas assault on southern Israel on Oct. 7 that triggered the war in Gaza.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-01-30-2024-b1ba33c7c0c5c62f85932a20c2a0bc92

 

Is it possible for the military to not disclose evidence if they think it will impact their acquisition of other targets?   I imagine those methods might have a short shelf-life, and then release the information sometime in the future once the think its played out?  Or they could be full of shit.

[Boss Hogg 808]

1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

Shocking that the Russian troll has no issue with ignoring laws governing the conduct of war.

Please.

Laws governing conduct of war sound great, but in an existential conflict between two sides you can expect those rules to be bent or disregarded as needed. As is, dressing up like doctors to gain access to targets doesn't strike me as a big gotcha.

[Brisketexan 105119]

1 hour ago, statsman said:

Fine. So, we can agree? We can drop all the (more in sorrow than anger) “genocide” rhetoric, and call this what it is- a war between Israel and Hamas (and Fatah better be taking fucking notes)? And in that war, I’m rooting for a total loss by Hamas, the sooner the better. 

Yeah, mark me down as being against "wars of extermination."  I want Hamas to lose.....but I don't support a strategy by Israel of "level Gaza, force every arab from it, and never let them return," which is exactly the plan espoused by Bibi and the worst of his government (who seem to be winning the day in terms of strategy).  Go get Hamas.  Clean them out.  But no, I don't support ethnic cleansing.  I'm hoping that's not a controversial position, but I'm sure that my hope is in vain.

[956 Worldwide 34710]

Dressing up like doctors is bad because Israel doesn’t want their own actual medics to be targeted on the battlefield, and they will claim that Hamas violates LOAC when they do. When one side introduces the possibility that medics are actually combatants that puts all medics at risk. This isn’t hard. 

[Skipper 6135]

16 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah, mark me down as being against "wars of extermination."  I want Hamas to lose.....but I don't support a strategy by Israel of "level Gaza, force every arab from it, and never let them return," which is exactly the plan espoused by Bibi and the worst of his government (who seem to be winning the day in terms of strategy).  Go get Hamas.  Clean them out.  But no, I don't support ethnic cleansing.  I'm hoping that's not a controversial position, but I'm sure that my hope is in vain.

Which is why it doesn't bother me personally that they entered a hospital to take down those assholes because they use civilians as shields and particularly doesn't bother me because from what I've read no civilians were harmed in the raid.    I would prefer creative raids even if they bend the "rules of war" (whatever that is worth in a conflict like this) to indiscriminate bombing.

That being said - 956 raises a good point in the post above mine regarding that putting israeli medics at risk, although do we really think if Hamas has an opportunity to take out a jew they are going to give a shit it's a medic?  I think if a known Israeli of any gender, age or occupation in firing range of Hamas they are pretty much all at equal risk.

[Anastasis 23469]

58 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Which is why it doesn't bother me personally that they entered a hospital to take down those assholes because they use civilians as shields and particularly doesn't bother me because from what I've read no civilians were harmed in the raid.    I would prefer creative raids even if they bend the "rules of war" (whatever that is worth in a conflict like this) to indiscriminate bombing.

That being said - 956 raises a good point in the post above mine regarding that putting israeli medics at risk, although do we really think if Hamas has an opportunity to take out a jew they are going to give a shit it's a medic?  I think if a known Israeli of any gender, age or occupation in firing range of Hamas they are pretty much all at equal risk.

Big picture, I tend towards this perspective as well. I mean, if the baseline understanding we can all share is that Israel is committing war crimes/human rights violations in multiple parts of the occupied territories simultaneously, I think that the less worse outcome is that the war crimes have precise targeting and execution like what happened in Jenin, compared to the massive collective punishment exercise that has basically leveled most of Gaza and resulted in the death trending to the 10s of thousands of women and children.

Not a single fucking person would have a reasonable criticism if Mossad was executing surgical "operations" to decapitate Hamas leadership in Qatar. But that is not the strategy of these genocidal lunatics. Their strategy is to create a reality on the ground, distract a pliable west and esp counting on the US to run interference, while pushing the boulder as far as they can until it is untenable to proceed further. It is maybe even to their benefit to keep leadership in Qatar up and running. The game is to execute a plausibly deniable ethnic cleansing/genocide. In the quiet moments if you listen and pay attention to their thought process, described in their own words, they will tell you such. 

Ah fuck it, back up another C130 and load that bitch out to Tel Aviv. To their credit the Biden administration is now considering "slowing the arms transfers" to these genocidal lunatics. Which basically means maybe we choke it down from a water cannon to a fire hose. Maybe they will get around to actually making a decision to intervene. Meanwhile daily death rates are higher that all other recent conflicts by a multiple. 

 

[Brian Fantana 6685]

3 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Dressing up like doctors is bad because Israel doesn’t want their own actual medics to be targeted on the battlefield, and they will claim that Hamas violates LOAC when they do. When one side introduces the possibility that medics are actually combatants that puts all medics at risk. This isn’t hard. 

Yeah this is part of why doing shit like that is considered a war crime. Just increases the likelihood of medical support personnel on either side being targeted.

[Skipper 6135]

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

 

Not a single fucking person would have a reasonable criticism if Mossad was executing surgical "operations" to decapitate Hamas leadership in Qatar. But that is not the strategy of these genocidal lunatics.

 

That being said, I don't think there is a reality where they could have conducted surgical operations and successfully eliminated Hamas.  What Hamas did in October 100% deserved a massive initial response and there were inevitably going to be civilian casualties. It's war and Hamas (knowingly and intentionally) brought that shit on the people they govern.  Not just with the initial attack but with an entire strategy of forcing Israel to kill civilians if they want to kill Hamas.  Some of the rhetoric from far right in Israel is concerning and given where things stand it's certainly open to debate what the rest of this "war" should look like, but I have a hard time criticizing Israel taking hard measures against nutjobs whose stated goal in life is to kill every jew and who have openly stated they will do it again.  

[Brian Fantana 6685]

Yet another one waltzes in here only to repeat the same thing that's been said and debated and settled in here 100x already.

Great contribution, though!

[Anastasis 23469]

15 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Some of the rhetoric from far right in Israel is concerning and given where things stand it's certainly open to debate what the rest of this "war" should look like, but I have a hard time criticizing Israel taking hard measures against nutjobs whose stated goal in life is to kill every jew and who have openly stated they will do it again. 

“Concerning”? I mean that’s soft as shit. 
 

Even if your timeline started on Oct 7 it’s not hard to criticize. If you appreciate the broader context and timeline, you should have been critical long ago. ESP of our role in running interference. 

Edited February 1 by Anastasis

[Skipper 6135]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

“Concerning”? I mean that’s soft as shit. 
 

Even if your timeline started on Oct 7 it’s not hard to criticize. If you appreciate the broader context and timeline, you should have been critical long ago. ESP of our role in running interference. 

I certainly have no desire to debate the history. I dug into it college and didn't have answers then and certainly don't have answers or strong opinions on that now.  But I'm absolutely not critical of the initial response.  What happened on 10/7 deserved a massive response in my view.  Obviously it would be great if Hamas and other Jihadi assholes had their military bases and operations separate from civilian housing and infrastructure but that's not who they are.  Civilian casualties were unavoidable.  It's intentional Hamas strategy to maximize civilian casualties to gather indirect support (i.e., opposition to Israel) just like we've seen in this thread every time I check in. 

If we want to discuss a point in time it was appropriate for Israel to scale back operations (or for the U.S. to scale back it's support), I'm certainly open to that discussion.  But the vast majority of posters that are overtly critical of Israel in this thread drew that line in the sand way back in October (and for most, absolutely based on how they viewed regional politics and the history pre 10/7). 

[statsman 5460]

Israel was careful to say they declared war on “Hamas”, rather than “Gaza”. That’s a nice sentiment, but I think it’s a distinction without a difference, in actuality. Hamas is so intertwined in Gazan society; it’s like saying you were declaring war on the Imperial Japanese Navy and Army, rather than Japan. Winning it is still going to pretty much destroy Japan. Israel is fighting a war and doesn’t seem compelled to honor the old status quo. 
 
 I think Iran is a big part of the impetus for October 7, and they shouldn’t get away with it (but they might). 
 
Israel may very well have decided “To hell with two states. We’re getting rid of Hamas, and if it ruins Gaza, spills into the West Bank, well, … we’ll deal with what’s left when Hamas is gone”. In other words, Hamas may have changed the dispute from “one state vs. two state solution” to “throw down and there’ll be no permanent refugee camps set up when it’s over”. 
 
Again, and I know you hate me repeating myself, but I will whenever Israel is blamed for the loss of thousands of civilian lives (per Hamas’ count)- I blame the loss of civilian life on Hamas, for starting this. 
 
I don’t feel compelled to write my congressman about US support, but I understand if you do. 

Edited February 1 by statsman

[Brian Fantana 6685]

3 minutes ago, Skipper said:

I certainly have no desire to debate the history. I dug into it college and didn't have answers then and certainly don't have answers or strong opinions on that now.  But I'm absolutely not critical of the initial response.  What happened on 10/7 deserved a massive response in my view.  Obviously it would be great if Hamas and other Jihadi assholes had their military bases and operations separate from civilian housing and infrastructure but that's not who they are.  Civilian casualties were unavoidable.  It's intentional Hamas strategy to maximize civilian casualties to gather indirect support (i.e., opposition to Israel) just like we've seen in this thread every time I check in. 

If we want to discuss a point in time it was appropriate for Israel to scale back operations (or for the U.S. to scale back it's support), I'm certainly open to that discussion.  But the vast majority of posters that are overtly critical of Israel in this thread drew that line in the sand way back in October (and for most, absolutely based on how they viewed regional politics and the history pre 10/7). 

You're a fucking clown ass.

[Anastasis 23469]

4 minutes ago, Skipper said:

I certainly have no desire to debate the history. I dug into it college and didn't have answers then and certainly don't have answers or strong opinions on that now.  But I'm absolutely not critical of the initial response.  What happened on 10/7 deserved a massive response in my view.

I think that we agree on more topics than disagree skipper, so this isn’t really directed in any way personally. But this is total nonsense and completely uncritical. This timeline didn’t start on Oct 7. 

[Anastasis 23469]

6 minutes ago, statsman said:

per Hamas’ count

You are a legit ghoul. 

[Skipper 6135]

 

Just now, Brian Fantana said:

You're a fucking clown ass.

LOL.  I've seen enough of your shit post history to know this will be my one and only time to engage with your dumbass.  80% of your posts are just lazily bitching at people that don't agree with whatever bullshit opinion you have.  Particularly if you have groupthink support on this forum.  So good luck with all of that.  

[statsman 5460]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

You are a legit ghoul. 

I will choose to take this as a compliment. 

[Anastasis 23469]

Take it anyway you like. 

[Brian Fantana 6685]

3 minutes ago, Skipper said:

 

LOL.  I've seen enough of your shit post history to know this will be my one and only time to engage with your dumbass.  80% of your posts are just lazily bitching at people that don't agree with whatever bullshit opinion you have.  Particularly if you have groupthink support on this forum.  So good luck with all of that.  

Bitch I don't give the smallest shit what you think. You came here and braindumped the standard boiler plate, Western media sculpted, basic bitch ass opinion on this conflict you can get from any one of the millions of TikTok trad wives as if you were being deep or insightful, and now you're welcome to scurry away and shut the fuck up.

[Skipper 6135]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I think that we agree on more topics than disagree skipper, so this isn’t really directed in any way personally. But this is total nonsense and completely uncritical. This timeline didn’t start on Oct 7. 

It didn't.  And I'm not going to pretend to have a strong opinion from before that date.  Even at a point 20 years ago I was relatively well educated on the subject matter, I still didn't have a strong opinion that either side was "right".  And I did know enough from more recent history to realize that Bibi was a piece of shit well before all of this.  But 10/7 was a massive escalation (I would call it unprovoked, others would disagree, and then we would go in circles again) but it deserved a response.  Maybe I'm biased as I have clients with family there that were impacted so I heard personal stories.  Maybe if I had clients in Palestine instead and heard their stories my view might change. I don't know.  But I know you can't have terrorists invade your country targeting civilians and not respond. I'm just not going to have an issue with that.

[Brian Fantana 6685]

[wildcat09 29353]

The idea that anywhere near a significant percentage of civilian casualties resulted from Hamas intentionally using civilians as shields is ridiculous. Israel has dropped more bombs on Gaza since 10/7 than we dropped on Dresden.

[gsoda3 3256]

15 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Dressing up like doctors is bad because Israel doesn’t want their own actual medics to be targeted on the battlefield, and they will claim that Hamas violates LOAC when they do. When one side introduces the possibility that medics are actually combatants that puts all medics at risk. This isn’t hard. 

 

11 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Yeah this is part of why doing shit like that is considered a war crime. Just increases the likelihood of medical support personnel on either side being targeted.

hamas's initial act of violence was the murdering and kidnapping of hundreds of civilians- an explicitly stated war crime in the geneva convention code.  they might bluster about this episode but they were never going to pass up the opportunity to kill a jew.  

[Brian Fantana 6685]

Oh look someone else who thinks this conflict began on 10/7

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

 

this will definitely advance the cause

[Brian Fantana 6685]

Yeah that's a bad look. I get it, but just protest in front of the White House or something.

[Brisketexan 105119]

Just now, Brian Fantana said:

Yeah that's a bad look. I get it, but just protest in front of the White House or something.

I mean, these morons missed an easy message: stand in front of the Holocaust museum with your banner that says "'Never Again' means NEVER AGAIN -- for EVERYONE -- Stop the Genocide in Gaza!"  That's not anti-semitic, it is aligned with a statement and belief that aligns with jews being valued humans, followed by "and so should all other humans be valued."

But this long ago stopped being about anything that makes sense.  It's about proxies, and idiotic ideologies, and supposedly human rights-favoring positions being a trojan horse for genocidal hatred against the other side, so fuck it.   Fuck em all.  The Palestinians have cast their lot with their genocidal leaders and faction.  The Israelis have done the same.  Nobody deserves what's happening there....yet each side is getting what they deserve.  Fucking humans are stupid and suck.

[Brian Fantana 6685]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I mean, these morons missed an easy message: stand in front of the Holocaust museum with your banner that says "'Never Again' means NEVER AGAIN -- for EVERYONE -- Stop the Genocide in Gaza!"  That's not anti-semitic, it is aligned with a statement and belief that aligns with jews being valued humans, followed by "and so should all other humans be valued."

But this long ago stopped being about anything that makes sense.  It's about proxies, and idiotic ideologies, and supposedly human rights-favoring positions being a trojan horse for genocidal hatred against the other side, so fuck it.   Fuck em all.  The Palestinians have cast their lot with their genocidal leaders and faction.  The Israelis have done the same.  Nobody deserves what's happening there....yet each side is getting what they deserve.  Fucking humans are stupid and suck.

Yeah for sure. Their messaging is stupid and they have a sub-Wikipedia level knowledge of the conflict just like the dumbass right wing nutjobs that splooge their pants every time Israel drops another bomb.

[Brisketexan 105119]

1 minute ago, Brian Fantana said:

Yeah for sure. Their messaging is stupid and they have a sub-Wikipedia level knowledge of the conflict just like the dumbass right wing nutjobs that splooge their pants every time Israel drops another bomb.

There's little difference between "kill the ragheads, turn it all to glass!" and "wipe out the colonizers, make it Palestine from the river to the sea!"  It's a powerful geopolitical lesson.  When your population has a 20-30% mass of people who are all-in on genocidal hatred, that poison takes over the whole society.

2% of your people are hateful assholes?  Well, you just have some unpleasant people to deal with.

25% of your people are hateful assholes (whether purposeful or as useful idiots)?  You have a big fucking problem, because that ethos can dominate a society even as a small plurality.

[bolverk 29671]

Y'all should note the Johnny Sacks of the world openly expressing support for ethnic cleansing.

Meanwhile, this will undoubtedly be a topic:

Biden Imposes Sanctions on Israeli Settlers Over West Bank Violence

President Biden on Thursday ordered broad financial and travel sanctions on Israeli settlers accused of violent attacks on Palestinians in the West Bank, a gesture aimed in part at Arab American voters in the United States who have expressed fury about the president’s backing of Israel’s war in Gaza.

Mr. Biden authorized the sanctions with an executive order that goes further than a directive issued in December by the State Department, which imposed visa bans on dozens of Israeli settlers who have committed acts of violence in the West Bank.

The new order cuts people off from the U.S. financial system and from assets or property they have in the United States. It also prevents them from traveling to the United States. Four people would be sanctioned on Thursday but there will be more announcements to come, according to Biden administration officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss details of the order.

The executive order comes as Mr. Biden faces growing criticism over U.S. support for Israel’s war in Gaza, including from his own party. American officials fear a recent surge in attacks by Israeli settlers against Palestinians in the West Bank could set off even wider violence, making an already combustible situation worse.

“This violence poses a grave threat to peace, security, and stability in the West Bank, Israel, and the Middle East region, and threatens the national security and foreign policy interests of the United States,” said Jake Sullivan, the president’s national security adviser.

Palestinians and many analysts say that Israel’s government has allowed the often heavily armed settlers to operate with impunity.

The office of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel responded to the sanctions by saying the “vast majority” of Israeli West Bank settlers are “law-abiding citizens.” Israel “acts against lawbreakers everywhere, so there is no need for exceptional steps in this matter,” Mr. Netanyahu’s office said in a statement.

The White House announced the sanctions just hours before Mr. Biden was set to hold a campaign event in Michigan, a critical battleground state that has a large Arab American population and has been the site of numerous protests over the war in Gaza.

Before leaving for Michigan, Mr. Biden spoke about what he said was “the trauma, the death and destruction in Israel and Gaza.” Speaking at the National Prayer Breakfast in Washington, he pledged to work for the release of hostages and the lives of Palestinians.

“Not only do we pray for peace, we are actively working for peace, security, dignity for the Israeli people and the Palestinian people,” he told the group of lawmakers and religious leaders at the event.

Michigan is critical to Mr. Biden’s campaign for a second term. In 2020, he won the state over former President Donald J. Trump by 154,188 out of almost 5.5 million votes cast that year. Michigan is home to several hundred thousand Arab Americans, most of whom live in the Detroit area. Those areas voted by big margins for Mr. Biden in 2020.

But since the attacks in Israel, polls show the president losing support among Palestinians and other Arab Americans. One poll late last year showed Mr. Biden’s support in that population plummeting from 59 percent to just 17 percent, a more than 40 percentage point decrease since the last election.

Mr. Biden has been dogged by people protesting his support for Israel at almost every campaign event in recent weeks. Before Mr. Biden’s travel on Thursday, the White House and the president’s re-election campaign refused to provide details about where he was going in Michigan or what he would be doing.

Osama A. Siblani, publisher of the Dearborn-based Arab American News, said on Thursday that Mr. Biden’s standing among Arab voters was as low as it had ever been, and that the sanctions would do nothing to change that.

“We have given up on him doing anything,” Mr. Siblani said, adding that he had been struck by the lack of specificity from the White House about the president’s schedule in Michigan, which he said seemed like an attempt to avoid possible protests.

“If the community is not going to be able to protest his visit,” Mr. Siblani said, “we’re going to give him the answer on Feb. 27,” a reference to the date of the Michigan Democratic presidential primary

The anger directed at the president is largely fueled by the belief that his administration has not done enough to prevent the killing of thousands of Palestinians by Israel as it wages war in Gaza against Hamas. Gazan authorities say at least 27,000 people have been killed during Israel’s military campaign.

But violence by extremist settlers, meant to drive Palestinians from their homes in the West Bank, has spiked recently, and Palestinians and many analysts say that Israel’s government has allowed the often heavily armed settlers to operate with impunity. Attacks on Palestinians, meant to drive them from their homes, had reached their highest recorded levels even before the Oct. 7 Hamas attacks — and have only accelerated since then.

[956 Worldwide 34710]

 

Six million Jews were killed in the Holocaust and the State of Israel didn’t exist when it happened. The very best you can do is be extremely tone-deaf if you’re protesting Israel or anything else at a Holocaust Museum; and usually you’re much worse. There’s no magic sign formula that makes it OK. 

[BrickHorn 18228]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

There's little difference between "kill the ragheads, turn it all to glass!" and "wipe out the colonizers, make it Palestine from the river to the sea!"

It’s really disorienting to read a thread in which Anastasis advocates a firm position while Brisketexan espouses uninformed both-sideserism. 

[Brisketexan 105119]

16 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

It’s really disorienting to read a thread in which Anastasis advocates a firm position while Brisketexan espouses uninformed both-sideserism. 

Yes or no -- are the policy and action choices of yes, "both sides," at present driven more by a) genocidal desire for murderous destruction of the other side, or b) a reasoned approach that is aimed at a two-state solution or other peaceful co-existence?  Come on, man.  Israel is better-equipped to carry it out.  That's the only material difference here.  Each "side" has allowed itself to be co-opted and functionally commanded by its worst elements.  Arguing about which hat is blacker right now is futile and pointless.

[bolverk 29671]

Amnesty International accuses Israeli forces of killing Palestinians in the West Bank with impunity.

Amnesty International said on Monday that Israeli forces were killing Palestinians in the West Bank with “near total impunity” as the world’s attention focused on Gaza, demanding in a new report that the International Criminal Court step up its investigation into Israel’s conduct in the Israeli-occupied area.

In the West Bank, Israeli forces have used live fire to disperse Palestinian protests, attacked people trying to help the injured and carried out deadly arrest raids that have spread fear throughout Palestinian communities, Amnesty International said in its report. It said the Israeli forces’ actions added to the country’s “well-documented track record of using excessive and often lethal force to stifle dissent and enforce its system of apartheid against Palestinians.”

The human rights organization said that Israel’s use of unlawful force in the West Bank had sharply escalated since Oct. 7, when a Hamas-led attack from Gaza killed more than 1,200 people in Israel, according to Israeli authorities. Israel’s retaliatory campaign has killed more than 27,000 Palestinians in Gaza, according to health officials there.  

The Israeli military has described its actions in the West Bank as counterterrorism efforts necessary to prevent further attacks. Israel has strongly denied prior accusations that it has committed the crime of apartheid.

Israeli military operations have raised alarms from several human rights groups, including the United Nations human rights office, which called in December for Israel to “end unlawful killings” of Palestinians in the West Bank and to immediately stop the use of “military weapons and means during law enforcement operations.”

Since Oct. 7, Israeli forces in the West Bank have killed at least 360 Palestinians and injured 4,270, the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs said on Sunday. Last year was the deadliest for Palestinians in the West Bank since the office began recording casualties in 2005, and about 70 percent of those killings were reported during Israeli military operations, O.C.H.A. has said.

Amnesty’s report detailed its investigations into four incidents that it said were emblematic of the recent escalation, and renewed its call for the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, Karim Khan, to take action. In 2021, the I.C.C. opened an investigation into allegations of war crimes committed by Israel and Palestinian militant groups in Israeli-occupied areas, but many Palestinian groups have criticized the pace and focus of the inquiry.

Amnesty’s director for global research and policy, Erika Guevara-Rosas, called for Mr. Khan to investigate the killings in the West Bank as possible war crimes, saying in the report that “an international justice system worth its salt must step in.”

Among the incidents investigated by Amnesty was an Israeli raid that began on Oct. 19 and lasted more than 24 hours in Nur Shams, an area that originated decades ago as a refugee camp for Palestinians displaced in the wars surrounding the founding of Israel. Israeli forces killed 13 Palestinians during the raid, including six children, according to Amnesty and Wafa, the official Palestinian news agency.

One of those killed during the raid, Amnesty said, was Taha Mahamid, an unarmed 15-year-old shot by Israeli forces when he peeked out of his house to see if they had left the area. His father was shot and seriously injured when he went to retrieve Taha’s body, and the family’s home was raided by Israeli forces about 12 hours later, Amnesty said.

One of Taha’s sisters told Amnesty investigators that her brother was shot in the leg, then in his stomach, then in his eye.

“They did not give him a chance,” the human rights group quoted her as saying. “In an instant, my brother was eliminated.”

[Brian Fantana 6685]

Nevermind that they shouldn't fucking be there in the first place. Terrorist state.

[bolverk 29671]

What Israeli Soldiers’ Videos Reveal: Cheering Destruction and Mocking Gazans
An analysis of social media videos found Israeli soldiers filming themselves in Gaza and destroying what appears to be civilian property. The footage provides a rare and unsanctioned window into the war.

An Israeli soldier gives a thumbs up to the camera as he drives a bulldozer down a street in Beit Lahia, in northern Gaza, pushing a battered car toward a half-collapsed building.

“I stopped counting how many neighborhoods I’ve erased,” the caption reads on the video posted to his personal TikTok, accompanied by a militaristic anthem.

Since Israel’s invasion in October, soldiers have shared videos from Gaza on social media, offering a rare, unsanctioned look at operations on the ground. Some have been viewed by small circles of people; others have reached tens of thousands.

The New York Times reviewed hundreds of these videos. Some show unremarkable parts of a soldier’s life — eating, hanging out or sending messages to loved ones back home.

Others capture soldiers vandalizing local shops and school classrooms, making derogatory comments about Palestinians, bulldozing what appear to be civilian areas and calling for the building of Israeli settlements in Gaza, an inflammatory idea that is promoted by some far-right Israeli politicians.

Some of the soldiers’ posts violate regulations of the Israel Defense Forces that restrict the use of social media by its personnel, which specifically forbid sharing content that may “affect the image of the I.D.F. and its perceptions in the eyes of the public,” or that shows behavior that “harms human dignity.”

In a statement, the Israeli military condemned the videos filmed by soldiers featured in this story.

“The conduct of the force that emerges from the footage is deplorable and does not comply with the army’s orders,” the military said in a written statement. It added that the “circumstances” were being examined.

Free link to read rest of article and view some of the embedded videos: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/06/world/middleeast/israel-idf-soldiers-war-social-media-video.html?unlocked_article_code=1.Tk0.1R4F.P71BPETSbQg4&bgrp=t&smid=url-share

[Da Fino 2781]

How can they mock!!??

[bolverk 29671]

9 minutes ago, Da Fino said:

How can they mock!!??

Oh, they can, and some of the videos are being used in the genocide trial at the ICJ, documenting the wholesale destruction of civilian property in violation of the Geneva Conventions, to which Israel is a signatory nation. But Israel is our ally, so we shouldn't give a shit about rampant war crimes, right?

Besides, Gazan civilians are just a bunch of Muslims anyway, so who really gives a shit if 70% of Gazan homes have been damaged or destroyed and a quarter of the population is on the brink of starvation.

I'm sure it's all in good fun.

[Boss Hogg 808]

Again, it’s an existential fight for Israel. All that matters to them is winning. It doesn’t make what they’re doing right, but don’t be surprised by it.

 

Take it from one of our top generals in WW2  

 

Le May’s strategy was to “bomb and burn “em till they quit.” He once said, "I'll tell you what war is about. You've got to kill people, and when you've killed enough, they stop fighting." On another occasion he said, “I suppose if I had lost the war, I would have been tried as a war criminal. Fortunately, we were on the winning side.”

[RomaVicta 29907]

31 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

Again, it’s an existential fight for Israel.

You misspelled Gaza.

[Brian Fantana 6685]

41 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

Again, it’s an existential fight for Israel.

It's not.

[Brian Fantana 6685]

Like, honestly, the amount of mental gymnastics you have to do to make the claim that Israel's actions or even fucking presence in the first place in the West Bank is some kind of existential struggle for them is fucking insane. You're actually a complete idiot.

[956 Worldwide 34710]

52 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

Again, it’s an existential fight for Israel. All that matters to them is winning. It doesn’t make what they’re doing right, but don’t be surprised by it.

 

Take it from one of our top generals in WW2  

 

Le May’s strategy was to “bomb and burn “em till they quit.” He once said, "I'll tell you what war is about. You've got to kill people, and when you've killed enough, they stop fighting." On another occasion he said, “I suppose if I had lost the war, I would have been tried as a war criminal. Fortunately, we were on the winning side.”

LeMay got started with the 8th Air Force in Europe where he pioneered the bomber box and was all in for daylight attacks on key industries.  The British Bomber Command and Bomber Harris thought the USAAF was nuts and took too many casualties and drove nighttime area attacks.

Then LeMay was sent to the Pacific theatre and faced two main issues:

1. Cloud over over Japan was much worse than Europe.

2. B-29s flew higher in the jet stream and bombs couldn’t be delivered on target the same way as from B-24s and from B-17s.

He actually got a list of strategic targets and he realized he couldn’t hit them. He got an almanac with a list of the 20 biggest Japanese cities and decided to hit square miles. 
 

Relevant here because the intersection of capabilities with goals is at the core of of how to actually use violence to compel and deter. And Gaza isn’t Japan and they don’t fly B-29s.  
 

But you do get be called a ghoul for taking an interest in that intersection and pointing it out. 

Edited February 8 by 956 Worldwide

[bolverk 29671]

29 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

Again, it’s an existential fight for Israel. All that matters to them is winning. It doesn’t make what they’re doing right, but don’t be surprised by it.

 

Take it from one of our top generals in WW2  

 

Le May’s strategy was to “bomb and burn “em till they quit.” He once said, "I'll tell you what war is about. You've got to kill people, and when you've killed enough, they stop fighting." On another occasion he said, “I suppose if I had lost the war, I would have been tried as a war criminal. Fortunately, we were on the winning side.”

Two points:

1. The rules of war, as outlined by the 1949 Geneva Convention, which Israel also signed, were created specifically to prevent the brutality seen in World War II. Israel didn't have to sign them, but they did. And, mind you, Israel's position was much more precarious at the time, so the State of Israel was at much greater risk of being extinguished by its neighbors. Why would Israel's leaders agree to it then but not now? 
2. I'm really hesitant to make this point because it might sound like I'm siding with Hamas, which I'm not, but I'll make it to show the error in your thinking. By your logic, if a nation or group of people feel that they're in an existential fight, which I'd argue Gazans feel like they are, wouldn't they then be excused from using war crimes such as terrorism to win a conflict? 

It sounds like you want to live in a world where there are no rules and what only matters is "might makes right." I don't want to live in that world, and apparently, neither did our grandfathers, who had just experienced two consecutive world wars in which millions of innocents died.

[Brian Fantana 6685]

He's never going to respond. He's just a thread shitter.

[BurgleBro 787]

The footage from last night is not great. 

 

Edited February 13 by BurgleBro

[Anastasis 23469]

1 hour ago, BurgleBro said:

The footage from last night is not great. 

 

Kinda wild that this thread has gone silent as shit continues to ramp up, we are lining up a military package for Israel, they are dropping US bombs on ambulances trying to reach a girl stuck in a car with her dead family, and Israel is preparing to move into the area that they pushed everyone in Gaza to as the safe space. 

Edited February 13 by Anastasis

[Brian Fantana 6685]

17 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Kinda wild that this thread has gone silent as shit continues to ramp up

Is it though?