Israel

[fattyflattie 4639]

On 3/26/2024 at 12:44 AM, Da Fino said:

What  backwards world do you live in? Seriously. All you’ve done is call everyone you disagree with a troll or worse. You are a constant umbrage taker. This discussion could be so much more interesting if it wasn’t for you slinging your sophomoric shit at everyone that you don’t deem worthy. And how in the hell did fatty get brought into this? I don’t think he’s even fucked with this thread yet. 

No shit. A fucking tech guy who fancies himself as an intellectual. I guess there could be one, I dunno.  Apparently I pos rep’d you on something and that was too much to bear 

[Brian Fantana 6689]

2 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

No shit. A fucking tech guy who fancies himself as an intellectual. I guess there could be one, I dunno.  Apparently I pos rep’d you on something and that was too much to bear 

Sir I am a himbo

[fattyflattie 4639]

6 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Sir I am a himbo

Lucky. I missed both boats. 

[safe sex 11735]

1 hour ago, Brian Fantana said:

Sir I am a himbo

[Rex Kramer 1338]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

TLDR; do what my grandpa did: shoot nazis in the face.  It's the only fucking way they get the message.

What about Illinois Nazis?

[Brisketexan 105155]

2 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

What about Illinois Nazis?

You can start by running them into the river....

[956 Worldwide 34715]

4 hours ago, Anastasis said:

 

Fun little game of guess who said it, a Nazi, an Imperial Japanese, or an Israeli.

"We must create a situation whereby killing a [ethnicity] is like killing a rat, where [ethnicity] are dirt, and thereby showing that we and not they are the power to be reckoned with in [country]"

"They aren’t human beings and not human animals, they’re subhuman and that’s how they should be treated."

"Exterminating the roaches... exterminating the rats...Share this beauty."

"We have no solution, you shall continue to live like dogs, and whoever wishes may leave, and we will see where this process leads."

"Erase the memory of them. Erase them, their families, mothers and children. These animals can no longer live"

 

 

Extremely enlightening.  The world is certainly lucky that this kind of dehumanizing rhetoric and world-view is confined to Israelis now that the Nazis and Imperial Japanese were defeated.  I can’t imagine what the Near East would look like if this kind of radical ethno-religious hatred was held by any other groups! Scary to even think about. 

[Anastasis 23475]

1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Extremely enlightening.

Yes, like watching Matt Miller at the podium showing us all how the US-led rules-based order works.

[Rex Kramer 1338]

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

You can start by running them into the river....

[statsman 5472]

On 3/27/2024 at 9:26 AM, statsman said:

I have a line I use in discussions about the U.S. using nukes to end the war in the pacific. 
 
“We were at war with monsters (Imperial Japan could match Hamas, atrocity for atrocity), and in order to defeat them, we did monstrous things”. 

I’m not sure why GW Hayduke and Brickhorn gave me the double bird. Not that it bothers me that much; I just didn’t understand what I posted that they disagreed with. 
 
Do they just dislike anyone commenting that way about the atom bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? I have pondered Truman’s decision and can understand why he made it- still, I don’t see any way around noting that our country dropped atom bombs on civilian population centers, and that is a horrific thing to do. We did it, and we should own it, in my opinion. 
 
Do they feel I am using that rhetoric- responding to monstrosity with monstrosity-as an apologetic for Israel in Gaza? I didn’t mean it that way. After 3.5 years of fighting Imperial Japan, after hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) of civilians killed by the Japanese, after Okinawa, there were no non-monstrous options to end the war (the above referenced comment about accepting a surrender is interesting, but not compelling, given the just completed Okinawa experience. Recent research has revealed that Imperial Japan’s last strategy was to convince the U.S. that the final battles would involve the last Japanese subjects fighting to the death. Plus, there is the whole element of Russia jumping in after Berlin fell; they were not interested in a peace negotiation; they wanted to grab as much of China as they could). The U.S. Pacific War was uniquely horrific, worse even than the German-Russian fighting. 
 
Israel is in a different situation. Yes, Hamas are monsters, but, no, Israel is not reduced to only monstrous options for responding. More is expected of them. 

Edited March 30 by statsman

[Brian Fantana 6689]

57 minutes ago, statsman said:

Do they feel I am using that rhetoric- responding to monstrosity with monstrosity-as an apologetic for Israel in Gaza?

That's exactly what you're doing. Don't hem and haw about it. Just about everything you've posted on this topic has been a rationalization of some sort.

[statsman 5472]

Well, hell. Sounds like you’ve got me all figured out. 

29 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

That's exactly what you're doing. Don't hem and haw about it. Just about everything you've posted on this topic has been a rationalization of some sort.

 

[Brian Fantana 6689]

1 minute ago, statsman said:

Well, hell. Sounds like you’ve got me all figured out. 

 

It doesn't mean you're a bad person for doing it, just means you need to evaluate some of the things you say differently.

[InkaUtexas 25986]

How about reading articles before commenting? @Brian Fantana 

[Brian Fantana 6689]

[RomaVicta 29929]

Happy Easter! Google

 

 

We're going to help Israel across their goal line of annihilating the Gazans and then, boy, are we really going to give them a big finger wagging!

Two-thousand pound bombs on areas populated by civilians. It's about as close to evil as it gets. But at least we have politicians, world leaders, and news media maintaining the horrific lie that this is in any way a "war effort."

This republic is going out as one gigantic diarrheal fart.

Edited April 1 by RomaVicta

[Fastbreak 3988]

Killing innocent people and then burying them in unmarked graves with bulldozers seems oddly familiar.

It’s great to be the main ally of the one people who should not have forgotten the holocaust…

[RomaVicta 29929]

From the Guardian news email this morning:

So, let's see. Israel makes the land uninhabitable then we can call Egypt the bad guys for not taking in refugees.

And here's my tiresome petpeeve:

I don't mind that Israel attacks enemy targets in Syria. Airstrikes seem the appropriate instrument used against an appropriate enemy.

I'm focuses on the mischaracterization of the invasion and pummeling of Gaza. In the article above, we learn that not only are housing and infrastructure being routinely devastated but the ground itself as well. I speculate that there is nothing unplanned about about having enormously heavy tanks rolling through farm fields with no tactical or strategic reason.

Another speculation from a mildly informed person (me); Israel likely is stepping up attacks on Hezbollah for military reasons. However, I wonder if they really want to get a nation state involved in open conflict to support the myth that they are the actual ones beset. That myth works well for them with the US as they wag that dog.

[bolverk 29684]

Meanwhile:

Israelis stage largest protest since war began to increase pressure on Netanyahu

JERUSALEM (AP) — Tens of thousands of Israelis thronged central Jerusalem on Sunday in the largest anti-government protest since the country went to war in October. Protesters urged the government to reach a cease-fire deal to free dozens of hostages held in Gaza by Hamas militants and to hold early elections.

*****

Protesters blame Netanyahu for the failures of Oct. 7 and say the deep political divisions over his attempted judicial overhaul last year weakened Israel ahead of the attack. Some accuse him of damaging relations with the United States, Israel’s most important ally.

Netanyahu is also facing a litany of corruption charges which are slowly making their way through the courts, and critics say his decisions appear to be focused on political survival over the national interest. Opinion polls show Netanyahu and his coalition trailing far behind their rivals if elections were held today.

Unless his governing coalition falls apart sooner, Netanyahu won’t face elections until spring of 2026.

Many families of hostages had refrained from publicly denouncing Netanyahu to avoid antagonizing the leadership and making the hostages’ plight a political issue. But as their anger grows, some now want to change course — and they played a major role in Sunday’s anti-government protest.

The crowd on Sunday stretched for blocks around the Knesset, or parliament building, and organizers vowed to continue the demonstration for several days. They urged the government to hold new elections nearly two years ahead of schedule. Thousands also demonstrated Sunday in Tel Aviv, where there was a large protest the night before.

 

Then, there's this whole fucked up thing where the most hardcore, ultra-Orthodox don't even have to serve in the military in spite of being the major driving force in illegally taking more Palestinian land.

In another reminder of Israel’s divisions, a group of reservists and retired officers demonstrated in an ultra-Orthodox neighborhood.

Ultra-Orthodox men for generations have received exemptions from military service, which is compulsory for most Jewish men and women. Resentment over that has deepened during the war. Netanyahu’s government has been ordered to present a new plan for a more equitable draft law by Monday.

Netanyahu, who relies heavily on the support of ultra-Orthodox parties, last week asked for an extension.

The Bank of Israel said in its annual report on Sunday that there could be economic damage if large numbers of ultra-Orthodox men continue not to serve in Israel’s military.

 

[Brisketexan 105155]

Meanwhile:

Israelis stage largest protest since war began to increase pressure on Netanyahu

JERUSALEM (AP) — Tens of thousands of Israelis thronged central Jerusalem on Sunday in the largest anti-government protest since the country went to war in October. Protesters urged the government to reach a cease-fire deal to free dozens of hostages held in Gaza by Hamas militants and to hold early elections.

*****

Protesters blame Netanyahu for the failures of Oct. 7 and say the deep political divisions over his attempted judicial overhaul last year weakened Israel ahead of the attack. Some accuse him of damaging relations with the United States, Israel’s most important ally.

Netanyahu is also facing a litany of corruption charges which are slowly making their way through the courts, and critics say his decisions appear to be focused on political survival over the national interest. Opinion polls show Netanyahu and his coalition trailing far behind their rivals if elections were held today.

Unless his governing coalition falls apart sooner, Netanyahu won’t face elections until spring of 2026.

Many families of hostages had refrained from publicly denouncing Netanyahu to avoid antagonizing the leadership and making the hostages’ plight a political issue. But as their anger grows, some now want to change course — and they played a major role in Sunday’s anti-government protest.

The crowd on Sunday stretched for blocks around the Knesset, or parliament building, and organizers vowed to continue the demonstration for several days. They urged the government to hold new elections nearly two years ahead of schedule. Thousands also demonstrated Sunday in Tel Aviv, where there was a large protest the night before.

 
Then, there's this whole fucked up thing where the most hardcore, ultra-Orthodox don't even have to serve in the military in spite of being the major driving force in illegally taking more Palestinian land.

In another reminder of Israel’s divisions, a group of reservists and retired officers demonstrated in an ultra-Orthodox neighborhood.

Ultra-Orthodox men for generations have received exemptions from military service, which is compulsory for most Jewish men and women. Resentment over that has deepened during the war. Netanyahu’s government has been ordered to present a new plan for a more equitable draft law by Monday.

Netanyahu, who relies heavily on the support of ultra-Orthodox parties, last week asked for an extension.

The Bank of Israel said in its annual report on Sunday that there could be economic damage if large numbers of ultra-Orthodox men continue not to serve in Israel’s military.

 

Yeah, the orthodox exemption is fucking bullshit. The most hawkish Israelis pushing the use of force…won’t actually serve. That’s a problem on multiple levels.

[chainsaw 9870]

12 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah, the orthodox exemption is fucking bullshit. The most hawkish Israelis pushing the use of force…won’t actually serve. That’s a problem on multiple levels.

Not only that, we're subsidizing their oversized families because these chumps don't work or serve in the military due to religious study.

[bolverk 29684]

Some images of Gaza from this past month:

A Palestinian girl carrying a child through the rubble of houses in Gaza City on March 3.

 

Mourners burying the bodies of Wesam and Naeem Abu Anza, Palestinian twins, in Rafah on March 3. They were born during the conflict between Israel and Hamas and were killed in Israeli airstrikes.

 

Mourners at a mass funeral in Rafah on March 7 watched as medical personnel prepared the bodies of 47 Palestinians that were taken and later released by Israel.

 

A crush of Palestinians lining up to receive free meals at the Jabaliya refugee camp in the Gaza Strip on March 18.

 

The sun setting behind destroyed buildings in Gaza on March 3.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/article/israel-gaza-hamas-photos.html

[bolverk 29684]

16 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Not only that, we're subsidizing their oversized families because these chumps don't work or serve in the military due to religious study.

 

For more on this:

Dispute Over Conscription for Ultra-Orthodox Jews Presents New Threat to Netanyahu
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s cabinet is divided about whether ultra-Orthodox Jews should be required to join the Israeli army.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is facing his most challenging political threat since the start of the Gaza war because of a disagreement among members of his coalition about whether ultra-Orthodox Jews should retain their longstanding exemption from military service.

An unwieldy right-wing alliance of secular and ultra-Orthodox lawmakers, the coalition’s members are divided about whether the state should continue to allow young ultra-Orthodox men to study at religious seminaries instead of serving in the military, as most other Jewish Israelis do. If the government abolishes the exemption, it risks a walkout from the ultra-Orthodox lawmakers; if it lets the exemption stand, the secular members could withdraw. Either way, the coalition could collapse.

The situation poses the gravest challenge to Mr. Netanyahu’s grip on power since Hamas raided Israel on Oct. 7, prompting Israel to invade Hamas’s stronghold in the Gaza Strip. Criticized by many Israelis for presiding over the October disaster, Mr. Netanyahu is trailing in the polls and faces growing calls to resign. But until now, there were few obvious ways in which his coalition might collapse.

The end of the coalition would most likely lead to new elections, and polling suggests that Mr. Netanyahu would not win.

Spoiler

A new Israeli government led by centrists is unlikely to take a markedly different approach to the war in Gaza, but it may be more open to allowing the Palestinian leadership in the Israeli-occupied West Bank to play a bigger role in Gaza after the war. That arrangement could create a more conducive environment for Israel to normalize relations with Saudi Arabia, which had edged closer to sealing diplomatic ties with Israel before the war broke out.

The ultra-Orthodox have been exempt from military service since the founding of Israel in 1948, but as the numbers of the ultra-Orthodox have grown — and especially in the months since the war began — so have resentment and anger over these privileges.

The issue came to the fore on Thursday evening when the government announced that the coalition had not agreed on an extension to the exemption by April 1, when the current exemption elapses. That news prompted the Supreme Court to instruct the government, as soon as the deadline passes, to suspend special educational subsidies that support seminary students if those students have failed to answer their military call-ups.

The court’s decision spurred outrage among ultra-Orthodox leaders who fear for the financial future of their education system, which depends largely on state subsidies, and are concerned that the funding freeze is the first step toward mandatory military service for their community.

For now, some ultra-Orthodox leaders have said that their parties will remain in the coalition while they wait to see what happens.

The standoff reflects how a decades-long battle over the character and future of the Jewish state has become graver since Oct. 7. Secular Israelis have long clashed with the ultra-Orthodox minority, known in Hebrew as Haredim, about how religious the state should be and how much autonomy the Haredim should have.

Now, a growing number of soldiers, including those from religious backgrounds, are returning from the front lines in Gaza and questioning why they should be risking their lives for a minority that receives vast educational subsidies, contributes less to the economy than other parts of society and mostly does not serve in the military.

Significant sections of the Haredi public have displayed a greater sense of shared destiny with mainstream Israelis since the attack, with some expressing greater support for the army and a small minority showing more interest in joining it. Roughly 1,000 Haredi men currently serve voluntarily in the military — less than 1 percent of all soldiers — but more than 2,000 Haredim sought to join the military in the first 10 weeks of the war, according to military statistics.

But the Haredi leadership remains deeply opposed to mandatory military service, fearing that it might disrupt their conservative way of life, which is centered around intensive Torah study in seminaries, or yeshivas.

“If a yeshiva student has to leave the yeshiva to be drafted, for whatever the reason, then we will not stay in the government,” said Moshe Roth, a Haredi lawmaker.

“This is a make it or break it,” he said.

“The only way to protect the Torah and to keep it alive, as it has been for the last 3,500 years, is by having yeshivas,” Mr. Roth added.

The dispute is rooted in decisions made in the years surrounding Israel’s founding, when the country’s secular leadership promised autonomy and privileges to the ultra-Orthodox minority in exchange for their support for a largely secular national project. As well as exemption from the draft, the Haredim are allowed to run their own autonomous education system.

When the numbers of the Haredim were relatively small, their privileges mattered less to the Israeli mainstream. But as their population has swelled to more than one million people, roughly 13 percent of Israel’s population — up from 40,000, or 5 percent, in 1948 — even many observant Jews who serve in the military have expressed resentment.

The exemption has prompted numerous legal challenges, the most significant of which was upheld by a Supreme Court decision in 2017. Its implementation has been postponed repeatedly to allow successive governments to find a compromise, and the latest deferment will elapse on Monday.

In practice, few expect military police officers to start searching Haredi neighborhoods to arrest seminary students who should be serving in the army. The army is not logistically prepared to absorb large numbers of highly conservative men who, for religious reasons, will refuse to serve in units alongside women.

The Supreme Court has also given the government another month to reach a middle ground acceptable to both its religious and secular members. Officials and lawmakers say a compromise is under discussion in which a few thousand seminary dropouts would be required to serve, but not those still studying.

“There is an understanding that something should be done, especially after Oct. 7,” said Danny Danon, a secular lawmaker in the governing coalition who supports ending the exemption. “We respect religion, and tradition, but at the same time, we realize that we have to change the current situation,” he added.

The threat of a financial shortfall for Haredi schools has injected a greater sense of urgency into the negotiations.

The court order did not say how many students would be affected by the freeze, and Mr. Netanyahu’s office declined to comment on whether the government would enforce the order.

But court documents suggested that up to roughly 60,000 student subsidies could be at risk — a sizable part of the seminary system’s budget.

Dozens of yeshivas “won’t last if they don’t have money from the government,” said Yanki Farber, a prominent Haredi commentator.

Still, the Haredi leadership could yet decide to stay in the coalition: It can wield more influence inside a right-wing coalition than by triggering elections that could be won by a more centrist and secular alliance in which it might play no part.

While still in government, Haredi leaders could press their cabinet colleagues to find workarounds to their funding shortfall, Mr. Farber said.

“It’s a very big disaster for the Haredim,” Mr. Farber said. But, he added, “at the moment they have much more to lose by leaving than staying.”

 

[bolverk 29684]

@RomaVicta

Human Rights Watch has a couple of aerial view sliders that show the razing of farmland and orchards pretty well.

 

NYTimes has this one showing some of the extent of it:

[RomaVicta 29929]

3 hours ago, bolverk said:

Meanwhile:

Israelis stage largest protest since war began to increase pressure on Netanyahu

JERUSALEM (AP) — Tens of thousands of Israelis thronged central Jerusalem on Sunday in the largest anti-government protest since the country went to war in October. Protesters urged the government to reach a cease-fire deal to free dozens of hostages held in Gaza by Hamas militants and to hold early elections.

*****

Protesters blame Netanyahu for the failures of Oct. 7 and say the deep political divisions over his attempted judicial overhaul last year weakened Israel ahead of the attack. Some accuse him of damaging relations with the United States, Israel’s most important ally.

Netanyahu is also facing a litany of corruption charges which are slowly making their way through the courts, and critics say his decisions appear to be focused on political survival over the national interest. Opinion polls show Netanyahu and his coalition trailing far behind their rivals if elections were held today.

Unless his governing coalition falls apart sooner, Netanyahu won’t face elections until spring of 2026.

Many families of hostages had refrained from publicly denouncing Netanyahu to avoid antagonizing the leadership and making the hostages’ plight a political issue. But as their anger grows, some now want to change course — and they played a major role in Sunday’s anti-government protest.

The crowd on Sunday stretched for blocks around the Knesset, or parliament building, and organizers vowed to continue the demonstration for several days. They urged the government to hold new elections nearly two years ahead of schedule. Thousands also demonstrated Sunday in Tel Aviv, where there was a large protest the night before.

 

 

 

Wow, all the Israelis don't fall like Americans for the "in times of war we should be united no matter what." 

Compliments to the protesters. 

 

After looking over the post above this:

How can we voluntarily have a hand in this? 

Maybe if Biden doesn't tread just right, we get Trump and the finishing off of the republic? Relative value?

Americans locked in their black/white good guy/bad guy mythology just short circuit to kill the ones that are terrorists or who resemble terrorists?

A brand that is cruelty? It makes the insecure adolescents here calling themselves men feel tough?

I guess if you can't get worked up enough to see the truth about Trump and the threat his MAGA GOP presents to the republic, what's a massacre in a foreign land?

Oh, forgot. It's a war. Instead of supplying Israel with bombs, we should be bombing the weapon stores they have. 

Edited April 1 by RomaVicta

[chainsaw 9870]

The politicians are terrified of AIPAC the same way the GOP is terrified of the NRA.

But the people are starting to realize what's happening.

 

[InkaUtexas 25986]

So Israel hitting a consulate is a pretty big deal right?

[chainsaw 9870]

5 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

So Israel hitting a consulate is a pretty big deal right?

Yes.

[bolverk 29684]

The only "Western democracy" in the Middle East is likely to shut down Al Jazeera with new law that could also curb free press of Israeli outlets.

Israel clears way to shutter Al Jazeera. Netanyahu says ‘terror channel’ airs incitement

JERUSALEM (AP) — Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Monday vowed to shut down Al Jazeera’s operations in Israel, calling it a “terror channel” that spreads incitement, after parliament passed a law clearing the way for the closure.

Netanyahu’s pledge escalated Israel’s long-running feud against Al Jazeera but also threatened to heighten tensions with Qatar, which owns the channel, at a time when the Doha government is playing a key role in mediation efforts to halt the war in Gaza. Neither Qatar nor the broadcaster immediately commented.

Israel has long had a rocky relationship with Al Jazeera, accusing it of unfair bias against Israel. Relations took a major downturn nearly two years ago when Al Jazeera correspondent Shireen Abu Akleh was killed during an Israeli military raid in the occupied West Bank.

The Palestinian-American journalist was well-known across the Arab world for her critical coverage of Israel, and the channel accused Israel of intentionally killing her. Israel denied the charge, saying she was likely killed by Israeli fire in what appeared to be an accidental shooting.

Those relations further deteriorated following the outbreak of Israel’s war against Hamas on Oct. 7, when the militant group carried out a cross-border attack in southern Israel that killed 1,200 people and took 250 others hostage.

In December, an Israeli strike killed an Al Jazeera cameraman as he reported on the war in southern Gaza. The channel’s bureau chief in Gaza, Wael Dahdouh, was injured in the same attack.

The network also blamed Israel for killing Dahdouh’s son in a strike in January. Hamza Dahdouh was working for Al Jazeera when the strike hit a car he was traveling, it reported. The army later said that Hamza Dahdouh was a member of Islamic Jihad, a militant group that joined the Oct. 7 attack with Hamas.

Wael Dahdouh’s wife, daughter and another son were killed along with his grandson in another Israeli strike last October. The channel broadcast images of Dahdouh entering the hospital and giving way to grief as he peered over the body of his dead son. Israel has not said who the target of that strike was.

Al Jazeera is one of the few international media outlets to remain in Gaza throughout the war, broadcasting bloody scenes of airstrikes and overcrowded hospitals and accusing Israel of massacres. Israel accuses Al Jazeera of collaborating with Hamas.

“Al Jazeera harmed Israel’s security, actively participated in the Oct. 7 massacre, and incited against Israeli soldiers. It is time to remove the bullhorn of Hamas from our country,” Netanyahu said on X, formerly Twitter.

He said he planned on acting immediately under the authorities of the newly passed law. “The terror channel Al Jazeera will no longer broadcast from Israel,” he said.

Al Jazeera has been closed or blocked by other Mideast governments, including Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain.

Egypt has banned Al Jazeera since 2013. It launched the crackdown after the 2013 military overthrow of an elected but divisive government dominated by the Muslim Brotherhood group. Egypt considers the Brotherhood a terrorist group and accused both Qatar and Al Jazeera of supporting it.

In Washington, State Department spokesman Matthew Miller said the U.S. does not always agree with Al Jazeera’s coverage, but respects its work.

“We support the independent free press anywhere in the world,” he said. “And much of what we know about what has happened in Gaza is because of reporters who are there doing their jobs, including reporters from Al Jazeera.”

Israel has in the past threatened to shutter Al Jazeera but never did so. Monday’s law did not immediately close the station but it authorizes officials to do so after consultations and approval from legal and security officials. Any order would be valid only through July 31 or the end of the war in Gaza.

Israel’s communications minister, Shlomo Karhi, said he intended to move forward with the closure. He said Al Jazeera has been acting as a “propaganda arm of Hamas” by “encouraging armed struggle against Israel.”

“It is impossible to tolerate a media outlet, with press credentials from the Government Press Office and offices in Israel, would act from within against us, certainly during wartime,” he said.

His office said the order would seek to block the channel’s broadcasts in Israel and prevent it from operating in the country. The order would not apply to the West Bank or Gaza.

Al Jazeera’s local bureau chief, Walid Al-Omari, said late Monday that the station had not heard from Israeli authorities. “But it’s clear it’s a question of time and they will take the decision within days,” he told The Associated Press.

But punishing the channel could be risky. Qatar has been acting as a chief mediator between Israel and Hamas. It helped broker and sponsor a weeklong cease-fire in November, and has been hosting weeks of on-and-off talks aimed at brokering another pause in fighting.

By targeting Al Jazeera, Israel could be trying to push Qatar to put additional pressure on Hamas to make concessions. Netanyahu has in the past accused Qatar of not doing enough. But it also risks alienating Qatar, a wealthy energy-rich Gulf state that is one of the few countries with influence over Hamas.

Israel has come under heavy criticism from press-freedom groups during the war. The Committee to Protect Journalists says 90 Palestinian journalists have been killed in the war, in addition to two Israeli journalists. Israel also has barred international journalists from entering Gaza independently to cover the war. The army has allowed small groups of journalists to enter Gaza on brief, highly controlled visits under military escort.

Hagar Shechter, an attorney with the Association for Civil Rights in Israel, said the law violates “the right for free speech, freedom of the press, freedom of occupation, and undermines separation of powers.” She added that the group plans to file a petition with Israel’s Supreme Court against the law.

Oren Persico, a staff writer at the Seventh Eye, an independent media watchdog website in Israel, said the law was a watered-down version of legislation sought by the country’s far-right national security minister, Itamar Ben-Gvir, due to pushback from legal experts.

The closure needs an expert opinion from a top security official deeming the network “harming Israel’s security.” The order would then need Cabinet or parliamentary approval, and further approval from the courts.

Persico said most worrying was that other media, including Israeli outlets, could also be in the line of fire.

“What’s important here isn’t Al Jazeera, it’s about the authority that the government has to shut down media, it’s a slippery slope,” he said.

[chainsaw 9870]

There's more press freedom in Russia

[bolverk 29684]

8 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

There's more press freedom in Russia

I don't buy that one bit, but this ain't a good sign for where Netanyahu and his theocratic buddies want to take the country.

[chainsaw 9870]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

I don't buy that one bit, but this ain't a good sign for where Netanyahu and his theocratic buddies want to take the country.

Israel is ranked 97, Palestine 156 (some of that lack of freedom is ascribed to the Palestinian authority to be fair to Israel), and Russia 164. But, that was in 2023 and before this proposal to oust al Jazeera.

https://rsf.org/en/index

 

[HenryJames 66121]

Are we sure that Jose Andrés isn’t supporting terrorism?

[DDD Dad 14339]

2 hours ago, HenryJames said:

Are we sure that Jose Andrés isn’t supporting terrorism?

Came here to post about this. 
 

This has to move the needle doesn’t it?  

[Biff Tannen 45691]

4 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Came here to post about this. 
 

This has to move the needle doesn’t it?  

For whom?  Certainly not Bibi. Maybe Biden?

[DDD Dad 14339]

Just now, Biff Tannen said:

For whom?  Certainly not Bibi. Maybe Biden?

Everyone?

[JohnnyRage 1617]

Not a bit.

[Chuckie Finster 22700]

As an initial vocal supporter of Israel, I've avoided this thread for a while... but the truth can be ignored no longer. 

As much as I want to support the idea of Israel, and I stand by my belief that there are/were many bad actors in the "ceasefire" movement capitalizing on anti-semitism, this shit cannot go on.

What Israel is doing is inconceivable.  Most "normie Jew" support for Israel centers around the idea of a safe place for Jews, yet I cannot think of anything that endangers the future international prospects of safe Jews than the continued escalation of this conflict.

Fuck Bibi.

[Brian Fantana 6689]

14 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

As an initial vocal supporter of Israel, I've avoided this thread for a while... but the truth can be ignored no longer. 

As much as I want to support the idea of Israel, and I stand by my belief that there are/were many bad actors in the "ceasefire" movement capitalizing on anti-semitism, this shit cannot go on.

What Israel is doing is inconceivable.  Most "normie Jew" support for Israel centers around the idea of a safe place for Jews, yet I cannot think of anything that endangers the future international prospects of safe Jews than the continued escalation of this conflict.

Fuck Bibi.

I still want to support the idea of Israel as well, it just doesn't have to be this way. It CAN'T be this way any longer.

What you said in bold is spot on. Israel's actions are only going to make things worse in the long run for everyone which is what I've been trying to say all along.

e: Also, you were always right about some bad actors using the ceasefire movement to further anti-semitism. It's just an unfortunate reality that we have to try and mitigate as much as possible.

Edited April 2 by Brian Fantana

[BrickHorn 18237]

First of all, good on you for reevaluating your opinion. That takes guts. 

Second:

12 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

What Israel is doing is inconceivable.

Unfortunately, it’s not. When you’re ready, dig in a bit more on the history of this conflict. It’s depressing.

[thrillhammer 684]

16 hours ago, bolverk said:

I don't buy that one bit, but this ain't a good sign for where Netanyahu and his theocratic buddies want to take the country.

netanyahu has to go

[mdmost 43004]

I'd love to be optimistic that the death of the aide workers would lead to the US cracking down on Bibi and threatening to pull funding unless he agrees to the ceasefire but we all know that's not happening. I notice the people on the DT "news" thread who feel Israel can do no wrong are pretty quiet today.

Edited April 2 by mdmost

[Brian Fantana 6689]

3 minutes ago, mdmost said:

I notice the people on the DT "news" thread who feel Israel can do no wrong are pretty quiet today.

Makes you think about who else is quiet, yeah? For example, the current sitting President of the United States of America: Joseph Robinette Biden, Jr.

You know, the same guy who heaped praise on Jose Andres and WCK for feeding Ukrainian refugees, and has notably not done so for his work in Gaza.

I'm a big fan of a lot of stuff Biden has done, and that's why his unacceptably poor handling of this situation infuriates me and is going to hurt him (and not in an insignificant way) in the presidential election. Your head is firmly in the sand if you don't understand that. On this topic, he has been Coward in Chief and needs to do better NOW, not later.

[mdmost 43004]

Yep but you know what happens the second he criticizes Israel. He's in a no-win situation. But yes, he needs to speak out about this and use it to force Israel into a ceasefire. 

[locodos 5387]

2 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Yep but you know what happens the second he criticizes Israel. He's in a no-win situation. But yes, he needs to speak out about this and use it to force Israel into a ceasefire. 

That will all be done behind the scenes Biden isn't a guy who puts his shit on blast.  Refreshing isn't it?  I think he has shown quietly getting things done in a hyper partisan environment is the way to go.

[wildcat09 29355]

29 minutes ago, thrillhammer said:

netanyahu has to go

to the Hague. 

[bolverk 29684]

3 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

Unfortunately, it’s not. When you’re ready, dig in a bit more on the history of this conflict. It’s depressing.

 

I strongly support the existence of Israel but haven't supported its treatment of the Palestinians in Gaza or the West Bank for a while, and this tragic accident is emblematic of why. At some point over the last 20 years under Bibi's government, the IDF just doesn't seem to give a shit anymore about who they kill or don't.

To be so careless as to kill these aid workers in clearly marked vehicles who had traveled in such a high profile way all the way from Cyprus to a designated port and after having dropped off 100 tons of aid and who had shared their activities and GPS coordinates with the IDF is unforgivable. To top it off, 200 aid workers had already been killed since the beginning of hostilities, which should indicate that this is not an anomaly.

Up until now, apologists have just said, "Oh, those other aid workers don't matter because they're Palestinians working for UN aid agencies, and have you heard? Thirty employees of the UNRWA (out of 13,000) participated in 10/7!" It's a process of dehumanization that starts with saying that none of them can be trusted. None of them want peace. Therefore, we can treat them however the hell we want, and no one can stop us.

The Israeli far right is unapologetically on a righteous mission to protect their people and gain more land at all costs. Be damned the consequences of how many more lives we take and enemies we make.

[Brian Fantana 6689]

I'm also walking back my stance of not blaming every day Israelis too much for the actions of Bibi & Co.

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-04-01/ty-article/.premium/polls-show-that-israelis-continue-to-choose-this-war-even-if-they-dont-want-netanyahu/0000018e-98d8-d591-a5cf-9fdddf100000

The rot in that country seems to go much deeper than I gave it credit for.

[RomaVicta 29929]

14 hours ago, HenryJames said:

Are we sure that Jose Andrés isn’t supporting terrorism?

It's okay. This was in the NYT:

 

It's really okay if you didn't mean to. Bibi and the thugs are actually innocent. We say the same thing when we blow up civilians during one of our invasions.

"We're not the bad guys because we don't mean to kill innocents. The other guys mean to."

Such horrors are inevitable when you commit a conventional army to attacking another country. The horrors are compounded when you hide your brutality behind the figleaf of a "war" that is in almost no way a war.

We didn't invade Iraq to kill civilians. That's not absolution for killing a 100,000 or more civilians in the course of using airstrikes and heavy artillery.

We're still better than Bibi's Israel which has clearly set out to kill, starve, and displace hundreds of thousands of civilians.

And we set a pretty low fucking bar.

[wildcat09 29355]

7 minutes ago, bolverk said:

 

I strongly support the existence of Israel but haven't supported its treatment of the Palestinians in Gaza or the West Bank for a while, and this tragic accident is emblematic of why. At some point over the last 20 years under Bibi's government, the IDF just doesn't seem to give a shit anymore about who they kill or don't.

To be so careless as to kill these aid workers in clearly marked vehicles who had traveled in such a high profile way all the way from Cyprus to a designated port and after having dropped off 100 tons of aid and who had shared their activities and GPS coordinates with the IDF is unforgivable. To top it off, 200 aid workers had already been killed since the beginning of hostilities, which should indicate that this is not an anomaly.

Up until now, apologists have just said, "Oh, those other aid workers don't matter because they're Palestinians working for UN aid agencies, and have you heard? Thirty employees of the UNRWA (out of 13,000) participated in 10/7!" It's a process of dehumanization that starts with saying that none of them can be trusted. None of them want peace. Therefore, we can treat them however the hell we want, and no one can stop us.

The Israeli far right is unapologetically on a righteous mission to protect their people and gain more land at all costs. Be damned the consequences of how many more lives we take and enemies we make.

The Israeli far right has never seemed remotely interested in rescuing any of the hostages. I don't think they care about protecting Israelis, I think they're fascists that want to exterminate everyone else.