Israel

[Brian Fantana 6689]

44 minutes ago, JohnnyRage said:

Would it be fair to generalize that historically Jews have seen more autonomy and religious freedom under Persian, Arab, and Ottoman rule rather than under Macedonian, Roman, and Christian occupation, and received some of the worst treatment while spread out in Europe? There were the obvious times where Joseph's tribe found the situation in Egypt untenable, and when Nebuchadnezzar conquered, exiled and enslaved the Judeans.

Were the original Philistines from the Mediterranean like the island Crete? 

That would make the argument that this current blood struggle between Jews and Arabs has been going on for thousands of years not make a whole lot of sense.

 

Yes, I've said it many, many times at this point, but the argument that this is a religious blood feud going back thousands of years is just another way for the Western world to abdicate its responsibility for its historic oppression and brutality towards Jews, and to attempt to force the Palestinian people to shoulder that burden for the rest of the world.

[bolverk 29684]

3 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Seems that way. Just another day. I guess you could say tank shells are "precise" munition. If so, that means the IDF is shooting at the tent areas.

CAIRO, May 28 (Reuters) - Israeli tanks shelled a tent camp in an evacuation area west of Rafah and killed at least 21 people on Tuesday, Gaza health authorities said, while advancing to the heart of the southern Gaza city for the first time after a night of heavy bombardment.

Two days after an Israeli airstrike on another camp stirred global condemnation, Gaza emergency services said four tank shells hit a cluster of tents in Al-Mawasi, a coastal strip that Israel had advised civilians in Rafah to move to for safety.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-forces-press-rafah-offensive-despite-global-outcry-2024-05-28/

 

Yep. It's yet another "humanitarian zone" struck by the IDF.

On another note, Israel is ordering the Spanish consulate to stop providing services to Palestinians in the West Bank. They say it's a punitive measure against Spain, but the residents are the ones getting punished.

Check out this language. The Israeli foreign minister accuses Spain of:

1. "Harming Israel’s sovereignty and security" when Israel has no legal sovereignty over the West Bank.
2. "Forc(ing) us to leave our religion or threaten our existence – those who harm us, we will harm in return,” equating Spain's recognition of the Palestinian State with the fucking Spanish Inquisition.

Israel orders Spanish consulate to stop providing services to Palestinians
Foreign Minister Israel Katz says the order is meant to punish Spain for recognizing a Palestinian state, as feud between Jerusalem and Madrid heats up

Israel said Monday it had ordered Spain’s consulate in Jerusalem to stop offering consular services to Palestinians in the West Bank from June 1, as a “punitive” measure for Madrid’s recognition of a Palestinian state.

The Foreign Ministry said that Spain’s consulate in Jerusalem is “authorized to provide consular services to residents of the consular district of Jerusalem only, and is not authorized to provide services or perform consular activity vis-a-vis residents of the Palestinian Authority.”

The directive is effective from June 1, the ministry said in a statement.

Foreign Minister Israel Katz said in a separate statement that he had “implemented preliminary punitive measures against the Spanish consulate in Jerusalem following the Spanish government’s recognition of a Palestinian state.”

“We will not put up with harming Israel’s sovereignty and security.”

Katz added that “anyone who rewards Hamas and tries to establish a Palestinian terrorist state will not be in contact with the Palestinians.”

“The days of the Inquisition are over. Today, the Jewish people have a sovereign and independent state, and no one will force us to leave our religion or threaten our existence – those who harm us, we will harm in return.”

 

[InkaUtexas 25972]

1 minute ago, bolverk said:

Yep. It's yet another "humanitarian zone" struck by the IDF.

On another note, Israel is ordering the Spanish consulate to stop providing services to Palestinians in the West Bank. They say it's a punitive measure against Spain, but the residents are the ones getting punished.

Check out this language. The Israeli foreign minister accuses Spain of:

1. "Harming Israel’s sovereignty and security" when Israel has no legal sovereignty over the West Bank.
2. "Forc(ing) us to leave our religion or threaten our existence – those who harm us, we will harm in return,” equating Spain's recognition of the Palestinian State with the fucking Spanish Inquisition.

Israel orders Spanish consulate to stop providing services to Palestinians
Foreign Minister Israel Katz says the order is meant to punish Spain for recognizing a Palestinian state, as feud between Jerusalem and Madrid heats up

Israel said Monday it had ordered Spain’s consulate in Jerusalem to stop offering consular services to Palestinians in the West Bank from June 1, as a “punitive” measure for Madrid’s recognition of a Palestinian state.

The Foreign Ministry said that Spain’s consulate in Jerusalem is “authorized to provide consular services to residents of the consular district of Jerusalem only, and is not authorized to provide services or perform consular activity vis-a-vis residents of the Palestinian Authority.”

The directive is effective from June 1, the ministry said in a statement.

Foreign Minister Israel Katz said in a separate statement that he had “implemented preliminary punitive measures against the Spanish consulate in Jerusalem following the Spanish government’s recognition of a Palestinian state.”

“We will not put up with harming Israel’s sovereignty and security.”

Katz added that “anyone who rewards Hamas and tries to establish a Palestinian terrorist state will not be in contact with the Palestinians.”

“The days of the Inquisition are over. Today, the Jewish people have a sovereign and independent state, and no one will force us to leave our religion or threaten our existence – those who harm us, we will harm in return.”

 

This is BS. If I was Spain I would open a new one inside Jordan.

But, also, what services does a consulate offer non-nationals?

[bolverk 29684]

Just now, InkaUtexas said:

This is BS. If I was Spain I would open a new one inside Jordan.

But, also, what services does a consulate offer non-nationals?

I imagine the services might be related to those who wish to emigrate to Spain maybe? There also could be some Palestinians who hold dual citizenship. I know there have been a few stories of American nationals, who are also Palestinians, getting caught up in the refugee crisis in Gaza. It was something along the lines of trying to reach them so they could get out. I think I also recall a story of an American citizen of Palestinian descent being killed by the IDF in the West Bank not too long ago.

[InkaUtexas 25972]

Agree. And it sucks for the Palestinians. It is not like they can go into Tel Aviv for a scheduled appointment. And yes, there are. And they were denied access to leave. I think most got out via Egypt, but their families could not. Funny we don't hear about that anymore.

In the second instance then they are not technically Palestinians and should use their Spanish documents to get in. But again, and I think it is BS to deny ANYONE diplomatic or consular representation, but how can a Palestinian, if there is no state, be a two state national? Their situation is so unique and fucked up. Only time in the past 124 years I can think of quickly is how the Nazi's denied Non-German Jews the right to leave Germany or diplomatic protection.

[Gengs1 2583]

 

[LCHorn 2620]

Jesus, that’s awful.

[Dnaguy 12000]

14 minutes ago, Gengs1 said:

 

That might be the worst thing I've ever seen... ever.

Humans suck.

Edited May 28 by Dnaguy

[Brisketexan 105154]

27 minutes ago, Gengs1 said:

 

Wy are you so anti-semitic?

[WhatTheBuck 28788]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

"Forc(ing) us to leave our religion

God gave us this land. It’s religious persecution if you try to stop us from eliminating all the non-Jews who occupy it. It’s ours. God said so. Fuck off.

[Fastbreak 3988]

God gave us this land. It’s religious persecution if you try to stop us from eliminating all the non-Jews who occupy it. It’s ours. God said so. Fuck off.

The Jewish high priest took 2 goats into the temple. He sliced the neck of one of the goats and drained the blood as an offering to God. Then he held the 2nd goat close and confessed the sins of the Israeli people. He then carried the goat to a cliff at the edge of the city and threw it over, removing the sins from Jerusalem.

Thus the word Scapegoat was invented.

Also this is Yom Kippur, the most holy day for Jewish people.

All of it is batshit crazy…

[Satchel 6938]

1 hour ago, Fastbreak said:

The Jewish high priest took 2 goats into the temple. He sliced the neck of one of the goats and drained the blood as an offering to God. Then he held the 2nd goat close and confessed the sins of the Israeli people. He then carried the goat to a cliff at the edge of the city and threw it over, removing the sins from Jerusalem.

Thus the word Scapegoat was invented.

Also this is Yom Kippur, the most holy day for Jewish people.

All of it is batshit crazy…

For it being called the Holy Land, I have to say there’s not much about it that feels holy when you’re there in the middle of all that division and hatred.

[staboner 4984]

holy shit. i am physically ill. i hope that is fake somehow. i gotta dip for a while fellas. hang in there 

[Fastbreak 3988]

For it being called the Holy Land, I have to say there’s not much about it that feels holy when you’re there in the middle of all that division and hatred.

Not to mention, their “god” hasn’t been too kind to them. Hundreds of years of slavery in Egypt, 40 years wandering the desert, killing Gods son, getting kicked off “their” land, the holocaust, etc.

Maybe they should find a better god, there are thousands to pick from and I’m use any of them would have a better ROI.

[Biff Tannen 45691]

42 minutes ago, staboner said:

holy shit. i am physically ill. i hope that is fake somehow. i gotta dip for a while fellas. hang in there 

I mean, I saw “beheaded babies” in the description and decided, nope, not for me. 

[F250 28777]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

I mean, I saw “beheaded babies” in the description and decided, nope, not for me. 

Same.

[WhatTheBuck 28788]

6 hours ago, Fastbreak said:

Not to mention, their “god” hasn’t been too kind to them. Hundreds of years of slavery in Egypt, 40 years wandering the desert, killing Gods son, getting kicked off “their” land, the holocaust, etc.

Maybe they should find a better god, there are thousands to pick from and I’m use any of them would have a better ROI..

 

 

[Anastasis 23475]

20 hours ago, Gengs1 said:

 

 

 

They were US made and supplied bombs. Your taxpayer dollars at work. 

 

 

[Anastasis 23475]

Another win for the US led rules based international order. 

 

[wild_turkey 3164]

Pardon my ignorance here and for asking a question that’s been hotly debated nationwide, but can anyone explain why the U.S. is still actively supporting Israel in this war? I understood supporting them immediately after the Oct 7 attacks, but why are we still involved in any capacity other than humanitarian aid?

Regardless of what events led up to this, it currently feels like we are assisting a genocide. The fact that we even have to discuss things like “is this a genocide?” makes me as an American want no active part in this, yet we continue supporting Israel.

I understand that many conservatives and Republicans have taken Israel’s side, yet we also have a Democrat president who is fully on board. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

[caliHORNia 44]

20 hours ago, Fastbreak said:

Not to mention, their “god” hasn’t been too kind to them. Hundreds of years of slavery in Egypt, 40 years wandering the desert, killing Gods son, getting kicked off “their” land, the holocaust, etc.

Maybe they should find a better god, there are thousands to pick from and I’m use any of them would have a better ROI.

"killed God's son..."  this misstatement is the historical reason for much of this.  Romans killed Jesus.  It's not really up for debate as far as I am aware.

[caliHORNia 44]

1 hour ago, wild_turkey said:

Pardon my ignorance here and for asking a question that’s been hotly debated nationwide, but can anyone explain why the U.S. is still actively supporting Israel in this war? I understood supporting them immediately after the Oct 7 attacks, but why are we still involved in any capacity other than humanitarian aid?

Regardless of what events led up to this, it currently feels like we are assisting a genocide. The fact that we even have to discuss things like “is this a genocide?” makes me as an American want no active part in this, yet we continue supporting Israel.

I understand that many conservatives and Republicans have taken Israel’s side, yet we also have a Democrat president who is fully on board. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

 

While I can see how people can be confused by the word Genocide there are some simple facts standing in the way of your assessment.  

1) The population in Gaza has only grown.  After Israel kills every single person they want to kill, including a 2:1 civiilian casualty rate (even though actual rate is closer to 1.5:1) the population will still be 2-3X what it was in the 1960s.

2) If Israel really wanted to commit genocide - there really would be no debate about it - because it would be effective and it would be over by now.

War is hell.  It's unfortunate that Hamas brought war to Gaza but it's more unfortunate that people can't understand that war is supposed to make you feel like something terrible is happening - because it is.  That doesn't make it genocide.

 

 

 

[Brian Fantana 6689]

1 hour ago, wild_turkey said:

Pardon my ignorance here and for asking a question that’s been hotly debated nationwide, but can anyone explain why the U.S. is still actively supporting Israel in this war? I understood supporting them immediately after the Oct 7 attacks, but why are we still involved in any capacity other than humanitarian aid?

Regardless of what events led up to this, it currently feels like we are assisting a genocide. The fact that we even have to discuss things like “is this a genocide?” makes me as an American want no active part in this, yet we continue supporting Israel.

I understand that many conservatives and Republicans have taken Israel’s side, yet we also have a Democrat president who is fully on board. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

Go thread the "war" thread in the DT if you want an answer to this. There are still bucketfuls of morons that will support Israel's actions no matter what they do. Also, Biden has never been anything but a staunch supporter of Israel. Despite the many things he's done right in his term, this is one of the things that he objectively sucks real bad at and it's legitimately harming him politically.

35 minutes ago, caliHORNia said:

 

While I can see how people can be confused by the word Genocide there are some simple facts standing in the way of your assessment.  

1) The population in Gaza has only grown.  After Israel kills every single person they want to kill, including a 2:1 civiilian casualty rate (even though actual rate is closer to 1.5:1) the population will still be 2-3X what it was in the 1960s.

2) If Israel really wanted to commit genocide - there really would be no debate about it - because it would be effective and it would be over by now.

War is hell.  It's unfortunate that Hamas brought war to Gaza but it's more unfortunate that people can't understand that war is supposed to make you feel like something terrible is happening - because it is.  That doesn't make it genocide.

This is, at best, a massive load of noodle-brained nonsense (ESPECIALLY point #2), and at worst, direct genocide denial and rationalization. You have absolutely zero clue what you're talking about, please stop.

[WhatTheBuck 28788]

1 hour ago, caliHORNia said:

"killed God's son..."  this misstatement is the historical reason for much of this.  Romans killed Jesus.  It's not really up for debate as far as I am aware.

Oh bullshit. You’re hanging on a technicality. Sure, the Roman occupiers did the actual deed but it was the Jewish leaders who wanted him gone, arrested him, and turned him over to Pilate. When some rabble rouser came along threatening to invert the power structure saying things like “the first shall be last and the last first,” those in power got a little ticked off. The Romans wouldn’t have given a shit if the Jewish leaders hadn’t turned him over. They didn’t have the authority to put him to death so they had the Romans do it.

Go read John 18.

 

[WhatTheBuck 28788]

2 hours ago, wild_turkey said:

Pardon my ignorance here and for asking a question that’s been hotly debated nationwide, but can anyone explain why the U.S. is still actively supporting Israel in this war? I understood supporting them immediately after the Oct 7 attacks, but why are we still involved in any capacity other than humanitarian aid?

Regardless of what events led up to this, it currently feels like we are assisting a genocide. The fact that we even have to discuss things like “is this a genocide?” makes me as an American want no active part in this, yet we continue supporting Israel.

I understand that many conservatives and Republicans have taken Israel’s side, yet we also have a Democrat president who is fully on board. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

We give aid to Israel all the time even when they’re not at war. 

Edited May 30 by WhatTheBuck

[bolverk 29684]

4 hours ago, wild_turkey said:

Pardon my ignorance here and for asking a question that’s been hotly debated nationwide, but can anyone explain why the U.S. is still actively supporting Israel in this war? I understood supporting them immediately after the Oct 7 attacks, but why are we still involved in any capacity other than humanitarian aid?

Regardless of what events led up to this, it currently feels like we are assisting a genocide. The fact that we even have to discuss things like “is this a genocide?” makes me as an American want no active part in this, yet we continue supporting Israel.

I understand that many conservatives and Republicans have taken Israel’s side, yet we also have a Democrat president who is fully on board. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

If you don't mind listening to a 38-minute-long podcast, Code Switch from NPR had a really excellent piece on this (maybe listen during your commute):

https://www.npr.org/2024/05/29/1197956512/why-white-evangelical-christians-support-israel

 

Several factors from different angles make it easy to see how they have such strong bipartisan support:

• White evangelical Christians
  • Christian Zionism and apocalyptic beliefs
  • Jews are God's chosen people, and he promised them that land
• Western guilt & compensation for the Holocaust
• Lingering Cold War mentality
  • Western-aligned Israel was up against surrounding Soviet-backed Arab states
  • Official designation as a non-NATO Major Ally
• Plain old Islamophobia, especially following the Global War on Terror

Edited May 30 by bolverk

[Biff Tannen 45691]

3 hours ago, caliHORNia said:

 

While I can see how people can be confused by the word Genocide there are some simple facts standing in the way of your assessment.  

1) The population in Gaza has only grown.  After Israel kills every single person they want to kill, including a 2:1 civiilian casualty rate (even though actual rate is closer to 1.5:1) the population will still be 2-3X what it was in the 1960s.

2) If Israel really wanted to commit genocide - there really would be no debate about it - because it would be effective and it would be over by now.

War is hell.  It's unfortunate that Hamas brought war to Gaza but it's more unfortunate that people can't understand that war is supposed to make you feel like something terrible is happening - because it is.  That doesn't make it genocide.

 

 

 

Wow

[PRONG HORN 3146]

2 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

and at worst, direct genocide denial and rationalization. You have absolutely zero clue what you're talking about, please stop.

 

 

History wont remember it as a genocide.  

 

 

[Fastbreak 3988]

3 hours ago, caliHORNia said:

"killed God's son..."  this misstatement is the historical reason for much of this.  Romans killed Jesus.  It's not really up for debate as far as I am aware.

The real point is since the dawn of humanity, the few have used "God", "God's word", "God talking to only me" to control the many.  This control is economic, physical and monetary.  It's all bullshit, but people have fallen for it over and over and over again.  This control mechanism has been a direct result in most of the horrors, hate and war humanity has suffered. Without this the world would be a much better place  It's not really up for debate as far as I am aware.

[Brian Fantana 6689]

1 hour ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

 

History wont remember it as a genocide.  

 

 

You literally are the dumbest person that posts on this site, and we have Rex.

[PRONG HORN 3146]

26 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

You literally are the dumbest person that posts on this site, and we have Rex.

 

So, nothing to counter my post?

 

 

[Brian Fantana 6689]

27 minutes ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

So, nothing to counter my post?

 

 

Yeah sure:

History will remember it as a genocide.

Your move, Magnus.

[Rex Kramer 1338]

34 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Yeah sure:

History will remember it as a genocide.

Your move, Magnus.

No. It won’t. Only sensationalist simpletons, or those with an anti-Israel bias will view it as a genocide. The world knew on 10/7 what the response would be. You’ve had 8 months to practice your teeth gnashing tactics. You’re unbearable. 

[Brian Fantana 6689]

10 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

No. It won’t. Only sensationalist simpletons, or those with an anti-Israel bias will view it as a genocide. The world knew on 10/7 what the response would be. You’ve had 8 months to practice your teeth gnashing tactics. You’re unbearable. 

[BrickHorn 18237]

5 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

 

[HornOnTheBayou 8931]

12 hours ago, caliHORNia said:

 

While I can see how people can be confused by the word Genocide there are some simple facts standing in the way of your assessment.  

1) The population in Gaza has only grown.  After Israel kills every single person they want to kill, including a 2:1 civiilian casualty rate (even though actual rate is closer to 1.5:1) the population will still be 2-3X what it was in the 1960s.

2) If Israel really wanted to commit genocide - there really would be no debate about it - because it would be effective and it would be over by now.

War is hell.  It's unfortunate that Hamas brought war to Gaza but it's more unfortunate that people can't understand that war is supposed to make you feel like something terrible is happening - because it is.  That doesn't make it genocide.

 

 

 

I have read some dumb shit through the years on this board, but this might take the cake. 

[bolverk 29684]

Rex is the very definition of willful, arrogant ignorance.

You only have to look at the latest order from the International Court of Justice for Israel to immediately halt its offensive in Rafah to see how this is seen and will be seen in the eyes of the world. (Reminder: the ICJ is tasked with determining whether Israel's actions constitute genocide.)

Since Friday's order, the IDF has bombed two refugee camps. 

 

[Helobious 9461]

4 hours ago, BrickHorn said:

 

I had a stroke trying to read that

[Rex Kramer 1338]

4 hours ago, bolverk said:

Rex is the very definition of willful, arrogant ignorance.

No. You get caught up in the very liberal definition of genocide. Legally, no genocide has occurred and they’re not acting like that. If the roles were reversed, and Palestinians didn’t behave in manners resulting in them living in “open-air prisons”, despite the Palestinians being in power, they unquestionably would commit genocide. 

You’re mistaking terrible collateral damage for genocide, and what’s worse is you know exactly what you’re doing. 

[safe sex 11735]

Donald Trump didn't "legally" rape EJC, but he's still a scumbag rapist 🤷‍♀️

[DixonHur 11338]

18 hours ago, caliHORNia said:

 

While I can see how people can be confused by the word Genocide there are some simple facts standing in the way of your assessment.  

1) The population in Gaza has only grown.  After Israel kills every single person they want to kill, including a 2:1 civiilian casualty rate (even though actual rate is closer to 1.5:1) the population will still be 2-3X what it was in the 1960s.

2) If Israel really wanted to commit genocide - there really would be no debate about it - because it would be effective and it would be over by now.

War is hell.  It's unfortunate that Hamas brought war to Gaza but it's more unfortunate that people can't understand that war is supposed to make you feel like something terrible is happening - because it is.  That doesn't make it genocide.

 

 

 

There are more Jewish people in the world now than before the Holocaust, ergo the Holocaust was not genocide. 

- caliHORNia logic

['stache 21818]

17 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Go thread the "war" thread in the DT if you want an answer to this. There are still bucketfuls of morons that will support Israel's actions no matter what they do. Also, Biden has never been anything but a staunch supporter of Israel. Despite the many things he's done right in his term, this is one of the things that he objectively sucks real bad at and it's legitimately harming him politically.

This is, at best, a massive load of noodle-brained nonsense (ESPECIALLY point #2), and at worst, direct genocide denial and rationalization. You have absolutely zero clue what you're talking about, please stop.

If Biden criticizes Israel any more than he has, then Trump becomes president again, because of the first part of your post. It’s not just DT posters, it’s the vast majority in this country that still “staunchly supports Israel.” I honestly have no idea what Biden really thinks about the situation, our electorate won’t let him go any further and still win the election. It’s insanity, but we’re already a nation of idiots any several other fronts.

[Brisketexan 105154]

32 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

No. You get caught up in the very liberal definition of genocide. Legally, no genocide has occurred and they’re not acting like that. If the roles were reversed, and Palestinians didn’t behave in manners resulting in them living in “open-air prisons”, despite the Palestinians being in power, they unquestionably would commit genocide. 

You’re mistaking terrible collateral damage for genocide, and what’s worse is you know exactly what you’re doing. 

I think you're partially correct, but it doesn't make things much prettier.  I believe that the facts on the ground, coupled with stated intent from members of senior Israeli leadership, demonstrate that what Israel is engaged in is NOT "genocide," as that term is defined by international law.

The problem is, what those things DO demonstrate is that Israel is engaged in the defined war crime of "ethnic cleansing."  

"We're not committing genocide, we're just committing the war crime of ethnic cleansing" is not a good look.

I do find it fascinating that the very same people who (correctly) bristle at Palestinians/their supporters chanting "from the river to the sea" are gleeful about Israel actually taking action to drive out all Palestinians "from the river to the sea."  Teh Netanyahu coalition 1) can't wait until Gaza is wiped clean of all those dirty Palestinians, so they can start settling and building coastal homes, and 2) until the Palestinians in the West Bank are driven out as well, by violent action from Israeli "settlers" and their militias, with full protection of the IDF and police.

"From the river to the sea for me, but not for thee" is likewise not a good look.

[Fudge Nuggets 19205]

Good lord, I didn’t think anyone could botch near unanimous worldwide sympathy and approval worse than GWB after 9/11. But here we are as Israel goes full on “Hold my beer.” mode.

[bolverk 29684]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I think you're partially correct, but it doesn't make things much prettier.  I believe that the facts on the ground, coupled with stated intent from members of senior Israeli leadership, demonstrate that what Israel is engaged in is NOT "genocide," as that term is defined by international law.

The problem is, what those things DO demonstrate is that Israel is engaged in the defined war crime of "ethnic cleansing."  

"We're not committing genocide, we're just committing the war crime of ethnic cleansing" is not a good look.

I do find it fascinating that the very same people who (correctly) bristle at Palestinians/their supporters chanting "from the river to the sea" are gleeful about Israel actually taking action to drive out all Palestinians "from the river to the sea."  Teh Netanyahu coalition 1) can't wait until Gaza is wiped clean of all those dirty Palestinians, so they can start settling and building coastal homes, and 2) until the Palestinians in the West Bank are driven out as well, by violent action from Israeli "settlers" and their militias, with full protection of the IDF and police.

"From the river to the sea for me, but not for thee" is likewise not a good look.

 

I agree that what they've done to date does not yet constitute genocide, and from what I've read, it might take years of investigation before a formal declaration is announced. That said, if you read the ICJ order, it does hint that the court believes Israel may be dangerously tiptoeing that line and has a tone of them running out of patience.

Given that the order was issued on Friday, coupled with the fact that the IDF continues to bomb refugee encampments along with yesterday's news (war thread) that they expect to continue operations through the end of the year, I think Israel runs the perilous risk of meeting the definition if they continue on this course.

Order from the ICJ:

 

[The Original Greaser Bob 2841]

In the early 90s, my Joy Division cover band was called The Genocide Convention. 

[DixonHur 11338]

3 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

In the early 90s, my Joy Division cover band was called The Genocide Convention. 

[Rex Kramer 1338]

2 hours ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

In the early 90s, my Joy Division cover band was called The Genocide Convention. 

 

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

I think you're partially correct, but it doesn't make things much prettier.  I believe that the facts on the ground, coupled with stated intent from members of senior Israeli leadership, demonstrate that what Israel is engaged in is NOT "genocide," as that term is defined by international law.

The problem is, what those things DO demonstrate is that Israel is engaged in the defined war crime of "ethnic cleansing."  

"We're not committing genocide, we're just committing the war crime of ethnic cleansing" is not a good look.

It’s a very important distinction, and none of it’s pretty. It’s war. 

Strongly disagree with ethnic cleansing part too. 

[Brisketexan 105154]

5 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Strongly disagree with ethnic cleansing part too. 

Does the Netanyahu coalition want all Palestinians out of Gaza or not?  In answering the question, take into account both the actual statements of Israeli leadership and the actions, both military and civilian actions, in furtherance of those goals.

They have made it pretty plain that they want a Gaza that is cleared of all Palestinians.  And then it can be restored to its rightful owners, Israeli jews.  That's, umm, textbook ethnic cleansing.

[Rex Kramer 1338]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Does the Netanyahu coalition want all Palestinians out of Gaza or not?  In answering the question, take into account both the actual statements of Israeli leadership and the actions, both military and civilian actions, in furtherance of those goals.

They have made it pretty plain that they want a Gaza that is cleared of all Palestinians.  And then it can be restored to its rightful owners, Israeli jews.  That's, umm, textbook ethnic cleansing.

Would Israel, regardless of PM, be okay with the presence of Palestinians if they were peaceful?  Don’t say “most Palestinians are”. Please answer these 2 questions - 1) would they be okay with their presence and 2) would they work toward and grant statehood rights to a peaceful Palestine?