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23 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Bullneck is one of these fucking idiots that self identify over and over again 

Hey, you're supposed to be the smart one. I'm still waiting for you and Fantana to post something useful 

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2 hours ago, Bullneck said:

Hey, you're supposed to be the smart one. I'm still waiting for you and Fantana to post something useful 

I am still trying to figure out what you're trying to ask me.

Also, it's not my fault if you started reading this thread a month ago or whatever and can't be bothered to read the pages and pages and pages of discussions that have been had over the last 8 months. I don't blame you, necessarily, but I'm also not going to repeat myself ad nauseum when we already played the Do You Condemn game for like 4 months straight when this latest conflict started.

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Posted (edited)

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-military-tie-palestine-jeep-west-bank-gaza-b2567270.html

Quote

Israeli soldiers strapped an injured Palestinian man to the bonnet of their vehicle during a raid in the West Bank city of Jenin on Saturday, inviting condemnation over their use of people in the occupied territories as a human shield.

A video circulated on social media showed a wounded Palestinian man, identified as Mujahed Azmi, lying on the bonnet of a military jeep as it drove past two ambulances.

The Israeli military confirmed that the incident had taken place and said that the soldiers had violated protocol after they were fired at during the raid.

Need the IDF defenders to log in

Edited by Brian Fantana
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57 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Incredible. Average Zionist brain.


 

Didn’t you already say that you don’t really care that Israel defends itself but you wish your tax dollars were not involved?  

It seems like this comment conveys a general dislike of Jews that I just didn’t see coming from you at all.  
 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, PRONG HORN said:


 

Didn’t you already say that you don’t really care that Israel defends itself but you wish your tax dollars were not involved?  

It seems like this comment conveys a general dislike of Jews that I just didn’t see coming from you at all.  
 

 

Ok, even for you, this is an unimaginably stupid take. Or you're just trolling again. I'm leaning toward the former.

In case you're just confused, the automatic presumption that my criticism of this tweet is a criticism of Jews and not simply the uneducated blathering of a Zionist belies the fact that you think Zionist = Jew and that makes YOU antisemitic.

Edited by Brian Fantana
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Posted (edited)

Another tiresome outrage, both the murder and the coverage:

image.png.67a4d80c8b153ad1218b1b93546522ce.png

 

The template here is the mission objective above all else, so you bury the lede/lead. The priority:

  1. How big was the big leader and architect of evil that we [almost] killed?
  2. How brave were we?
  3. Collateral damage (dead and injured non-combatants)
  4. Is the collateral damage acceptable considering the target?
  5. Does killing the leader do anything, really?
  6. Are we just ballyhooing this decapitation strategy to cover the ineffectiveness of other operations and the lack of imagination for considering alternatives to using a goddamn sledgehammer most of the time?

It increasingly looks like cheap theater for the idiots at home. Hey, we killed the fuck out of that bad guy! Just like in the movies. Shame we couldn't torture him for awhile although I wouldn't have the stomach to watch the real thing.

How many terrorist leaders have we killed? Many, I hope.

How many people have been wrongly targeted? Too many. We're great at bombing weddings and family reunions. But we didn't mean to. My mind always goes back to the shepherd in Afghanistan we blew up because in the night, from hundreds of feet in the air, he seemed tall like Osama and appeared to be wearing a head wrap keffiyeh like an Arab might. Hello, hellfire missile. 

How many nearby people are killed? Too many, although I will allow for likely colleagues of the terrorist.

Israel doesn't give a shit about any of this as Netenyahu applies American bombs. Maybe use two 1000 pound bombs instead of one 2000 pound bomb. Same difference.

For one guy:

image.png.e533d39e7183b56894076587446f8081.png

Fuck the Israeli government and any Israelis who support this.

Fuck any US racist who seizes on this to justify moving against Jewish citizens of this country. It's a big stinking kettle of bloody shit.

Edited by RomaVicta
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1 hour ago, Brian Fantana said:

Designated safe zone, btw. Crickets from the chucklefuck Zionist peanut gallery brigade on this site as usual.

 

I posted in the war thread.  You haven't commented.  

 

I guess they shouldn't have held a terrorist meeting in a safe zone.

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

I posted in the war thread.  You haven't commented.  

 

I guess they shouldn't have held a terrorist meeting in a safe zone.

 

 

 

 

I don't read that thread.

Also, it's not even clear if they even succeeded in killing him. Seems like a waste of a bunch of lives to maybe kill one target who they aren't even sure was there it seems.

It's good if he died, though, that guy is a piece of shit. It sucks if it cost a bunch of innocent civilian lives and it sucks even worse if the guy didn't even die.

Edited by Brian Fantana
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https://truthout.org/articles/israel-has-flattened-unrwa-hq-in-gaza-in-blatant-war-crime-agency-says/
 

Quote

Israel Has “Flattened” UNRWA HQ in Gaza in “Blatant” War Crime, Agency Says
“Another episode in the blatant disregard of international humanitarian law,” said the head o
f UNRWA.

By Sharon Zhang , TRUTHOUT
Published July 15, 2024

2024_0715-unrwa-2400x1600.jpg

After months of successive attacks on humanitarian aid facilities, Israeli forces have now “completely destroyed” the headquarters of the primary aid group for Palestinian refugees in Gaza, the agency reports.

Israeli forces attacked the facility as they carried out their horrific raid of Gaza City last week, leaving nothing but rubble in its place. The building was one of many operated by the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA), the largest aid group for Palestinians in Gaza and beyond.

UNRWA Commissioner Philippe Lazzarini said that Israel’s attack on the facility represents a “blatant” war crime.

“Shocking. UNRWA headquarters in Gaza, turned into a battlefield and now flattened,” he said. “Another episode in the blatant disregard of international humanitarian law. United Nations facilities must be protected at all times. They must never be used for military or fighting purposes.”

UNRWA’s director of external relations, Tamara Alrifai, told Al Jazeera English in an interview that the headquarters are now “unrecognizable” compared to what Alrifai has seen in previous visits — a contrast that speaks “volumes” regarding Israel’s violations of international law.

Just since October, Israeli forces have attacked 190 UNRWA facilities in Gaza — over half of the group’s buildings in the region — and killed 197 UNRWA workers. Israel’s genocide in Gaza has killed the most humanitarian aid workers of any military conflict in recent history.

The sheer destruction caused by Israel’s relentless bombing campaign has made Gaza uninhabitable for myriad reasons. The amount of rubble alone would take workers 15 years to clear, the UN Environment Programme estimates, and will cost at least $500 million.

The rubble, which hundreds of thousands of Palestinians have had to navigate in the past week due to yet another set of Israeli attacks and forced evacuation orders, also contains unexploded ordnances that create deadly hazards for those passing through.

Last week, UNRWA reported that, as Palestinians run out of places to flee to — and as Israel bombs areas it has supposedly designated as “safe zones” — they face the risk of running into such unexploded ordnances; experts estimate that roughly 10 percent of bombs dropped don’t explode on impact and instead become death traps laying in wait. Unexploded ordnances have already been reported to have killed and injured several people in Gaza.The leveling of the UN agency’s headquarters comes as Israel has been escalating its attacks in Gaza. Palestinian officials have reported that Israeli attacks have killed 320 Palestinians in the last 48 hours, including 17 Palestinians killed by an Israeli airstrike on a UNRWA school on Sunday.'

This article is licensed under Creative Commons (CC BY-NC-ND 4.0), and you are free to share and republish under the terms of the license.
FullSizeR-400x300.jpg

Sharon Zhang is a news writer at Truthout covering politics, climate and labor. Before coming to Truthout, Sharon had written stories for Pacific StandardThe New Republic, and more. She has a master’s degree in environmental studies. She can be found on Twitter: @zhang_sharon.

 
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6 hours ago, chainsaw said:

Israel Has “Flattened” UNRWA HQ in Gaza in “Blatant” War Crime, Agency Says
“Another episode in the blatant disregard of international humanitarian law,” said the head o
f UNRWA.

 

 

I would think that having tunnel openings in UNRWA buildings might have something to do with it.  

 

 

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I doubt this will persuade anyone, but it officially puts Israel on par with Russia, claiming the Donbas and other parts of Ukraine as their own territory.

Here's Bibi's response:

“The Jewish people are not occupiers in their own land – not in our eternal capital Jerusalem, nor in our ancestral heritage of Judea and Samaria [the occupied West Bank]. No decision of lies in The Hague will distort this historical truth, and similarly, the legality of Israeli settlements in all parts of our homeland cannot be disputed.”

Dude, I'm sorry the Romans kicked many Jewish people off the land nearly 2,000 years ago, but that gives you no right to subjugate and eventually kick other people off the land who've been there since (many of the Jews converted to Christianity under Roman occupation and stayed, or later converted to Islam).

 

UN court orders Israel to end its occupation of Palestinian territories
International court of justice says it should leave ‘as rapidly as possible’ and make full reparations for ‘wrongful acts’

The UN’s international court of justice (ICJ) has ordered Israel to end its occupation of the Palestinian territories “as rapidly as possible” and make full reparations for its “internationally wrongful acts” in a sweeping and damning advisory opinion that says the occupation violates international law.

In a historic, albeit non-binding, opinion, the court found multiple breaches of international law by Israel including activities that amounted to apartheid.

It will make sobering reading for Israel’s allies, with the court advising that other states are under an obligation not to recognise the occupation as lawful nor to aid or assist it.

Reading the court’s opinion on Friday, the president of the ICJ, Nawaf Salam, said: “The court considers that the violations by Israel of the prohibition of the acquisition of territory by force and of the Palestinian people’s right to self-determination have a direct impact on the legality of the continued presence of Israel, as an occupying power, in the occupied Palestinian territory.

“The sustained abuse by Israel of its position as an occupying power, through annexation and an assertion of permanent control over the occupied Palestinian territory and continued frustration of the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination, violates fundamental principles of international law and renders Israel’s presence in the occupied Palestinian territory unlawful.”

The opinion was provided in response to a request from the UN general assembly in 2022. It precedes the Gaza conflict and is not directly linked to it but will add to the pressure on Israel – and its allies – to bring an end to its military offensive, in which it has killed more than 38,000 Palestinians, according to the Gaza health ministry.

cont'd

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/19/israels-settlement-policies-break-international-law-court-finds

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

 Used F-15 Baz strike jets.  Israel was as a pioneer in showing how the F-15 could be used in an air to ground strike role.  Gorgeous plane. 

Iron Eagle GIF by Justin
 

IMG_1184.gif.951f6c52787b123f43b7233e39a1b935.gif

 

the US should have did this a looong time ago. When the first shot was fired at our ships 

Edited by tx 3 putt
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The Israelis have crippled the entire economy of Yemen because the Houthis, who, as I understand it, are fighting the government of Yemen, fired a missile at Israel. In wikipedia, I just read that the Houthis are Iran-backed. Does this make any sense to anyone? I truly don't know a great deal about the area other than the war is ruthless and we're participating in making things worse there.

But that's how we roll.

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3 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

The Israelis have crippled the entire economy of Yemen because the Houthis, who, as I understand it, are fighting the government of Yemen, fired a missile at Israel.

sounds like the houthis are playing chess not checkers. 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, futureman said:

you talking about the USS Liberty?

Excellent call. Most likely don't know what youire talking about.

Outrageous attack by Israel on US Navy ship.

 

Quote

The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship (spy ship), USS Liberty, by Israeli Air Force jet fighter aircraft and Israeli Navy motor torpedo boats, on 8 June 1967, during the Six-Day War.[2] The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members (naval officers, seamen, two marines, and one civilian NSA employee), wounded 171 crew members, and severely damaged the ship.[3] At the time, the ship was in international waters north of the Sinai Peninsula, about 25.5 nautical miles (47.2 km; 29.3 mi) northwest from the Egyptian city of Arish.[1][4]

Israel apologized for the attack, saying that the USS Liberty had been attacked in error after being mistaken for an Egyptian ship.[5] Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the ship's identity.[6] Others, including survivors of the attack, have rejected these conclusions and maintain that the attack was deliberate.[7][8]

...

During the attack, antennas were severed, gas drums caught fire, and the ship's flag was knocked down. McGonagle sent an urgent request for help to the Sixth Fleet, "Under attack by unidentified jet aircraft, require immediate assistance".

The Mirages left after expending their ammunition, and were replaced by a flight of two Dassault Super Mystères codenamed Royal flight. The Mysteres were armed with napalm bombs, and were flown by Captain Yossi Zuk and his wingman, Yaakov Hamermish. The Mysteres released their payloads over the ship and strafed it with their cannons. Much of the ship's superstructure caught fire.

...

[These boats arrive as Liberty is a flaming wreck.]

After coming under fire, the torpedo boats returned fire with their cannons, killing Liberty's helmsman.[45] The torpedo boats then launched five torpedoes at the Liberty.[46] At 12:35Z (14:35 local time)[45] one torpedo hit Liberty on the starboard side forward of the superstructure, creating a 39 ft (12 m) wide hole in what had been a cargo hold converted to the ship's research spaces and killing 25 servicemen, almost all of them from the intelligence section, and wounding dozens.[45] It has been said the torpedo hit a major hull frame that absorbed much of the energy; crew members reported that if the torpedo had missed the frame the Liberty would have split in two. The other four torpedoes missed the ship.[citation needed]

The torpedo boats then closed in and strafed the ship's hull with their cannons and machine guns.

Quote

A communication to the Israeli ambassador on 10 June, by Secretary Rusk stated, among other things:

At the time of the attack, the USS Liberty was flying the American flag and its identification was clearly indicated in large white letters and numerals on its hull. ... Experience demonstrates that both the flag and the identification number of the vessel were readily visible from the air ... Accordingly, there is every reason to believe that the USS Liberty was identified, or at least her nationality determined, by Israeli aircraft approximately one hour before the attack. ... The subsequent attack by the torpedo boats, substantially after the vessel was or should have been identified by Israeli military forces, manifests the same reckless disregard for human life.[50][51]

...

The Senate Foreign Relations Committee...the senators were dismayed about the attack, as expressed by Senator Bourke B. Hickenlooper: "From what I have read I can't tolerate for one minute that this [attack] was an accident." There was concern about obtaining more information on the attack, as expressed by Committee chairman J. William Fulbright: "We asked for [the attack investigation report] about two weeks ago and have not received it yet from Secretary Rusk. ... By the time we get to it we will be on some other subject." Secretary McNamara promised fast delivery of the investigation report, "... you will have it in four hours", and concluded his remarks by saying: "I simply want to emphasize that the investigative report does not show any evidence of a conscious intent to attack a U.S. vessel."[70]

Quote

Some intelligence and military officials dispute Israel's explanation.[77] Dean Rusk, U.S. Secretary of State at the time of the incident, wrote:

I was never satisfied with the Israeli explanation. Their sustained attack to disable and sink Liberty precluded an assault by accident or some trigger-happy local commander. Through diplomatic channels we refused to accept their explanations. I didn't believe them then, and I don't believe them to this day. The attack was outrageous.[78]

...

Other survivors run several additional websites. Citing Ennes's book, Lenczowski notes: Liberty's personnel received firm orders not to say anything to anybody about the attack, and the naval inquiry was conducted in such a way as to earn it the name of "coverup"

Quote

In 2002, Captain Ward Boston, JAGC, U.S. Navy, senior counsel for the Court of Inquiry, said that the Court of Inquiry's findings were intended to cover up what was a deliberate attack by Israel on a ship that the Israelis knew to be American. In 2004, in response to the publication of A. Jay Cristol's book The Liberty Incident, which Boston said was an "insidious attempt to whitewash the facts", Boston prepared and signed an affidavit in which he said that Admiral Kidd had told him that the government ordered Kidd to falsely report that the attack was a mistake, and that Boston and Kidd both believed the attack was deliberate.

But why?

Quote

Several books and the BBC documentary USS Liberty: Dead in the Water argued that Liberty was attacked in order to prevent the U.S. from knowing about the forthcoming attack in the Golan Heights, which would violate a cease-fire to which Israel's government had agreed.[89] However, Syria did not accept the cease fire until 9 June, after the attack on Liberty.[90] Russian author Joseph Daichman, in his book History of the Mossad, states Israel was justified in attacking the Liberty.[91] Israel knew that American radio signals were intercepted by the Soviet Union and that the Soviets would certainly inform Egypt of the fact that, by moving troops to the Golan Heights, Israel had left the Egyptian border undefended.

But why?

I recollect reading that the reason was to shield their attack on the Golan Heights. The above said the Israelis were avoiding being caught violating a ceasefire which had not even been agreed upon yet. The cease fire stuff is specious.

Still, Israel wanted to obscure their move against the Golan Heights because Israel had said they would not make that attack. They didn't want to be restrained by the American objections. Better to seek forgiveness than permission.

The observation by the Russian author is new to me and makes sense. I sort of admire the Russian pragmatism of saying the attack was therefore justified as, presumably, it was in the national interests of Israel.

Johnson was president at the time. He was a pragmatist. I don't think he wanted the hot potato of getting in the middle of this.

I am outraged everytime I dig into this story. There's nothing to be done now. The captain of the Liberty received the Medal of Honor but was awarded the medal at a base instead of the White House. Shame all around except for the captain and crew of the Liberty who refused any aid by the Israelis after the attack ended. He knew the score. 

The tail is wagging the biggest dog in the world. I hate that. 

To be clear, I mean Israel not persons of Jewish faith. It's a shame that I have to add that clarification.

Edited by RomaVicta
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On 7/16/2024 at 1:42 AM, PRONG HORN said:

 

 

I would think that having tunnel openings in UNRWA buildings might have something to do with it.  

 

 

 

7 hours ago, PRONG HORN said:

giphy-13.gif

Two remarkably insightful posts. Keep 'em coming.

 

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9 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

The Israelis have crippled the entire economy of Yemen because the Houthis, who, as I understand it, are fighting the government of Yemen, fired a missile at Israel. In wikipedia, I just read that the Houthis are Iran-backed. Does this make any sense to anyone? I truly don't know a great deal about the area other than the war is ruthless and we're participating in making things worse there.

But that's how we roll.

Hey but they did it with F15s, so cool man.

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2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I see now we’ve moved on to feeling bad for the Houthis for getting their shit pushed in after fucking around and finding out.

 

2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

lol, so much butthurt for the poor Houthi fuel storage facilities. 

Maybe take a lap and a nap, champ, and stop lying about what everyone else is saying. God you're such a fucking pussy about this topic.

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3 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Just want to say it is preposterous that bibi is getting a free forum in OUR FUCKING CONGRESS to sit there and spew his bullshit without any repercussions. 

Wonder if he packed a suitcase full of his dirty undies for Matt Miller to dry clean while he was here. 

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Quote

 

"You're saying that children in Gaza are being shot by snipers?" asked Smith.

"Definitively," said Dr. Perlmutter. "I have two children that I have photographs of that were shot so perfectly in the chest, I couldn't put my stethoscope over their heart more accurately, and directly on the side of the head, in the same child. No toddler gets shot twice by mistake by the 'world's best sniper.' And they're dead-center shots."

In fact, more than 20 doctors recently in Gaza also told "Sunday Morning" about gunshot wounds to children.

One American doctor told us he even reviewed CT scans to confirm what he saw because he "didn't believe that this many children could be admitted to a single hospital with gunshot wounds to the head." Some shootings have been captured on video.

 

Quote


Some medical professionals who spoke to "Sunday Morning" requested their identities be kept private, as some plan to return again to Gaza. A Virginia-based doctor told us, "We all see gunshots in the U.S., but we have never seen anything like the gunshots to kids in Gaza." Another Virginia-based anesthesiologist told CBS News that, over his two weeks in Gaza, he saw single gunshot wounds to kids on a daily basis (he guessed at least 30 total).

One Chicago-based doctor told us, "I thought these kids were in the wrong place at the wrong time, like sadly, some of the kids we treat in Chicago. But after the third or fourth time, I realized it was intentional; bullets were being put in these kids on purpose."

Dr. Perlmutter noted that he saw, for dozens of miles, 18-wheelers parked bumper-to-bumper, their engines off or idling, outside of Gaza. "Food or health care could not get in," he said.

Smith asked, "How many kids are in danger of starvation in Gaza?"

"All of them," he replied. "Absolutely all of them."

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/children-of-gaza/

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The drone strike in Tel Aviv last week, where an Iranian-supplied drone sneaked through Israeli air defense, is a good example why Israel cannot allow Iran to have nukes. Iran is the nation that seems to feel that its rason d’etre is to fire bombs at Israel, through proxies all around it. 
 
Israel has bombed Iranian nuclear facilities. With the U.S., they have cyber-attacked their research facilities. They have even targeted Iranian physicists (only the good ones) for assassination. 
 

Now, Iran’s ally, Russia, may be helping them get over the finish line in developing nukes. I don’t know what Israel’s next step is, but if you’re shocked by it, you haven’t been paying attention. 

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34 minutes ago, statsman said:

I don’t know what Israel’s next step is, but if you’re shocked by it, you haven’t been paying attention. 

No doubt it likely involves more dead children and expended us bombs. 

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