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On 9/5/2024 at 7:04 AM, statsman said:

I think a bigger problem is the small Palestinian children being told, “Here where we live? This isn’t our home. That place 50 miles away? That’s our home. It was taken from your great grandparents by those bad people and you need to grow up and take it back”. 

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On 9/6/2024 at 6:56 PM, bolverk said:

Today, an American woman was murdered

 

Turkish woman with US citizenship.  Peaceful protestor.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

a Member of the International Solidarity Movement (ISM), a Palestinian-Led Movement focused on “Non-Violent Action”.

Richard David Hupper, a Member of the ISM, being sentenced to Three Years in a U.S. Federal Prison back in 2008, for funneling over $20,000 to. Hamas

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Terrorism, plain and simple


Exactly.  When the Palestinian people stop letting hamas occupy civilian areas, they won’t be treated like terrorists.  It’s their strategy to die for the cause.  
 

 

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On 9/6/2024 at 6:56 PM, bolverk said:

Today, an American woman was murdered

 

On 9/8/2024 at 4:21 AM, PRONG HORN said:

Turkish woman with US citizenship.  Peaceful protestor.  

 

 

Well whoever she is, I'm sure she would be happy to have had a military procession before her journey to Turkey.  Can anyone explain this one?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, PRONG HORN said:


Exactly.  When the Palestinian people stop letting hamas occupy civilian areas, they won’t be treated like terrorists.  It’s their strategy to die for the cause.  
 

 

I hope hell is real so we can meet there.

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When Hamas puts its forces in civilian centers, they (Hamas) commit a war crime. When Israel bombs them, there, it is not committing a war crime. 
 
If Gaza has a NICU unit, and Sinwar puts his command post right next to it, it is not a war crime for Israel to bomb it. That’s an extreme example to illustrate a point. 
 
If you don’t like the formal rules of war, what is your proposal to change them to?

Is it your contention that the U.S. committed a war crime when it bombed Dresden? I know that’s what Nazi leaders proposed in the Nuremberg trials. 
 
Golda Meir said, “We can forgive them for killing our children. We can’t forgive them for making us kill theirs”. 

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6 minutes ago, statsman said:

When Hamas puts its forces in civilian centers, they (Hamas) commit a war crime. When Israel bombs them, there, it is not committing a war crime. 
 
If Gaza has a NICU unit, and Sinwar puts his command post right next to it, it is not a war crime for Israel to bomb it. That’s an extreme example to illustrate a point. 
 
If you don’t like the formal rules of war, what is your proposal to change them to?

Is it your contention that the U.S. committed a war crime when it bombed Dresden? I know that’s what Nazi leaders proposed in the Nuremberg trials. 
 
Golda Meir said, “We can forgive them for killing our children. We can’t forgive them for making us kill theirs”. 

A makeshift refugee camp isn't a "civilian center" teeming with Hamas leadership.  Use your fucking brain. 

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17 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

A makeshift refugee camp isn't a "civilian center" teeming with Hamas leadership.  Use your fucking brain. 

What? Are you still thinking that Hamas is hanging out in the barracks at Fort Arafat? That’s not how this works. Hamas imbeds among civilians and limits the civilians’ egress. 
 
Please answer the question- what should the rule of war be about enemy troops/militants imbedded among civilians?

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13 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Terrorism, plain and simple

My thought exactly. They want these people to move to Egypt. They will seemingly do anything to facilitate that.

Netanyahu is a war criminal and horrific perpetrator of crimes against humanity. We must deny that man access to any US arms. I'm for helping Israel against air attacks and that's about it. 

Pronghorn defines himself yet again with his nihilistic support of these actions. 

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58 minutes ago, statsman said:

When Hamas puts its forces in civilian centers, they (Hamas) commit a war crime. When Israel bombs them, there, it is not committing a war crime. 
 
If Gaza has a NICU unit, and Sinwar puts his command post right next to it, it is not a war crime for Israel to bomb it. That’s an extreme example to illustrate a point. 
 
If you don’t like the formal rules of war, what is your proposal to change them to?

Is it your contention that the U.S. committed a war crime when it bombed Dresden? I know that’s what Nazi leaders proposed in the Nuremberg trials. 
 
Golda Meir said, “We can forgive them for killing our children. We can’t forgive them for making us kill theirs”. 

First, your use of the pronoun them can mean a few different things, but grammatically it most likely should mean Hamas. Yes, Israel may bomb Hamas as an enemy. 

However, you seem to want to include innocent civilians among "them." If so, you want to claim bombing them is not a war crime. Is there any international law you're referring to, or is this just a baseless pronouncement? I know of nothing that supports indescriminate slaughter of civilians.

In short, you're fucking wrong about war crimes. Throughout this slaughter campaign, Israel has used 2000 and 1000 pound bombs on targets they claim (seldom with evidence) are directed at Hamas. That is not precision application of high explosive. It's using a sledge hammer to kill some ants on the wall. 

You're weakest point is to refer to America's violent acts of the past which may or may not be war crimes. We've committed them to be sure. So what? What does that have to do with Israel's war crimes? Your only point can be that as there is a precedent for such horrors perpetrated by the US, one cannot hold accountable an American ally for same. 

You propose international conflict unguided by any restraint regarding humanity. That is not my stand. That is not your country's stand.

I defer to Kubrick and Animal Mother.

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@statsman 

Yes, civilians who are either unwittingly used as or coerced into being human shields remain protected persons under the Geneva Conventions. This doesn't mean the IDF can't target Hamas when they're embedded among civilians, but it does mean care should be taken so that the ratio of civilian deaths to the number of targets should be "proportional."

Unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be a hard and fast rule for that ratio, but there is language that broadly outlines "clearly excessive" civilian casualties. Many are arguing right now that the IDF's bombing in Gaza meets the excessive standard.

image.thumb.png.233e86440014564cf990bd3ae70f3d37.png 

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https://apnews.com/projects/west-bank-palestinian-teenagers-israel/

Unarmed Palestinian teen killed by IDF sniper take #12345. In the West Bank, where they definitely don't belong. Defend this @statsman you lying, coward piece of shit.

Let's see, what else...

https://abcnews.go.com/International/israels-5th-strike-same-gaza-school-totally-unacceptable/story?id=113619334

More deliberate strikes on humanitarian aid centers...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/09/11/american-activist-aysenur-eygi-killed-idf-west-bank/

Lying about assassinating activists...

https://www.npr.org/2024/09/12/g-s1-22336/jordan-elections-islamists-israel-gaza-war

Israel's actions predictably ramping up radical Islamist sentiment in the Middle East...

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-said-to-ask-ag-to-probe-him-gallant-in-bid-to-fend-off-icc-arrest-warrant/

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-09-12/ty-article/.premium/report-netanyahu-seeks-loophole-from-ag-in-limited-probe-to-evade-icc-warrants/00000191-e5d3-d119-a1db-e5d330d20000

Netanyahu desperately trying to do fraud to avoid the issuance of an international arrest warrant against him...

Anyone else got any good news?

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22 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

A Turkish woman with US citizenship is an American woman, you chode.

And the "mob" wasn't rioting. I posted about it previously. She was with a group who prayed in a circle on the side of a hill as their way of protesting an illegal settlement. It was peaceful and a weekly. Well, it was peaceful until they were surrounded by settlers and the IDF which caused a brief confrontation. She was shot in the head by a sniper later while standing around with other internationals who had gathered together afterward. I believe a Brit was also shot in the leg.

Those two Xitter accounts, Visegrad 24 and OSINTdefender became popular after Russia invaded Ukraine, but both have been very biased against Palestinians during this conflict. Visegrad is reported to have close ties with a far-right Polish political party that is allied with Orban.

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The IDF shot a palestinian-american arab christian reporter, straight up gaslit everyone until they couldn't sustain that anymore, and suffered not one repercussion. They told the US to fuck right off, and State shifting their interest away from an independent investigation, but did lift a finger trying to stop an independent ICC investigation. US led rules-based order though. LOL.

I ain't gonna hold my breath on them giving a meaningful shit about this one either. 

Edited by Anastasis
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Pro Israeli propaganda has been pumped into the minds of millions and millions of Americans for decades. I'm more anti Netanyahu than anything. But if you critique their leader you are called antisemitic.

All people in Israel have free healthcare right? Why not America if we're giving them money?

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3 hours ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Pro Israeli propaganda has been pumped into the minds of millions and millions of Americans for decades.

And for a sizable number of evangelicals they get it pumped into them as a kid starting in Sunday school. It’s all totally crazy shit. But that shit is very sticky and hard to unwind, for many even after they lose their faith tradition the world view indoctrination sticks. 

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On 9/10/2024 at 10:59 AM, statsman said:

When Hamas puts its forces in civilian centers, they (Hamas) commit a war crime. When Israel bombs them, there, it is not committing a war crime. 
 
If Gaza has a NICU unit, and Sinwar puts his command post right next to it, it is not a war crime for Israel to bomb it. That’s an extreme example to illustrate a point. 
 
If you don’t like the formal rules of war, what is your proposal to change them to?

Is it your contention that the U.S. committed a war crime when it bombed Dresden? I know that’s what Nazi leaders proposed in the Nuremberg trials. 
 
Golda Meir said, “We can forgive them for killing our children. We can’t forgive them for making us kill theirs”. 

Israeli actions force civilians into humanitarian center.

Israel bombs humanitarian center.

Why would Hamas do this?

Insert bike spoke stick gif.

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3 hours ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Pro Israeli propaganda has been pumped into the minds of millions and millions of Americans for decades. I'm more anti Netanyahu than anything. But if you critique their leader you are called antisemitic.

All people in Israel have free healthcare right? Why not America if we're giving them money?

I've been thinking it would be effective not to alienate Israel when criticizing what it is doing by making a distinction between Likud and Israel, and calling it Likud Israel in the same way we say Nazi Germany to distinguish it from modern Germany and to denote that it was being controlled by a right-wing populist movement.

So long as Israel is being controlled by a bloodthirsty right-wing regime, it has earned a fitting moniker. Call it Likud Israel and it's much more difficult to lob antisemitism accusations at people who criticize what Likud Israel is doing.

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On 9/15/2024 at 11:02 AM, Anastasis said:

And for a sizable number of evangelicals they get it pumped into them as a kid starting in Sunday school. It’s all totally crazy shit. But that shit is very sticky and hard to unwind, for many even after they lose their faith tradition the world view indoctrination sticks. 

Not that they would admit it but many Evangelicals see the Palestinians as subhuman because they are brown and practice a different religion.

Anytime you critique Israel they act like half of their surrounding neighbors are just random terrorists that have done all these awful things completely unprovoked.

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8 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

 

Anytime you critique Israel they act like half of their surrounding neighbors are just random terrorists that have done all these awful things completely unprovoked.

Agreed, both sides of this conflict are reprehensible but one side always gets a pass in America, especially by the religious right. There is a lot of white washing of the actions of the Israel.

Great Britain deserves the credit for creating this mess over 100 years ago. Promising combating factions the same land in return for support for their war efforts turns out not to be a good idea.

 

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7 minutes ago, Dish Boggett said:

Great Britain deserves the credit for creating this mess over 100 years ago.

Eh, there’s got to be stature of limitations on blame.  Why not blame the Ottomans for resettling thousands of Jews in the Levant after their expulsion from Spain?  Or maybe the medieval Arabs for establishing a culture of religious tolerance picked up by the Ottomans that allowed the Jews the right to practice their own religion rather than assimilate (as the Spanish required)?

 

 

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4 hours ago, LCHorn said:

Eh, there’s got to be stature of limitations on blame.  Why not blame the Ottomans for resettling thousands of Jews in the Levant after their expulsion from Spain?  Or maybe the medieval Arabs for establishing a culture of religious tolerance picked up by the Ottomans that allowed the Jews the right to practice their own religion rather than assimilate (as the Spanish required)?

 

 

There's a statute of limitations, but we're still well within the period where it's still acceptable to blame the British. Fuck em.

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8 hours ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

 

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Here are the good guys who will kill those teenage bad guys.

 

Mission: Drop 1000 pound bomb on teenager with machine gun.

Jehovah! I love assymetrical combat from a cockpit!

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Yea, we like our chances against that teenager with a machine gun.

Got to stop evil some way. Tank artillery! Hoo-ah!

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5 hours ago, LCHorn said:

Eh, there’s got to be stature of limitations on blame.  Why not blame the Ottomans for resettling thousands of Jews in the Levant after their expulsion from Spain?  Or maybe the medieval Arabs for establishing a culture of religious tolerance picked up by the Ottomans that allowed the Jews the right to practice their own religion rather than assimilate (as the Spanish required)?

 

 

Fair enough, I suppose since the Brits are the last ones to get it wrong they carry the most blame

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On 9/20/2024 at 7:15 AM, Loch Ness Monster said:

Not that they would admit it but many Evangelicals see the Palestinians as subhuman because they are brown and practice a different religion.

Anytime you critique Israel they act like half of their surrounding neighbors are just random terrorists that have done all these awful things completely unprovoked.

You think there’s any inner dissonance when the evangelicals consider the Palestinian Christians?

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