Israel

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

^^^^

Quote

Israeli soldiers killed an American woman demonstrating against settlements in the West Bank on Friday

I'm sure Biden will be just as upset as he was over the American hostage who died.

 

[PRONG HORN 3111]

On 9/5/2024 at 7:04 AM, statsman said:

I think a bigger problem is the small Palestinian children being told, “Here where we live? This isn’t our home. That place 50 miles away? That’s our home. It was taken from your great grandparents by those bad people and you need to grow up and take it back”. 

[PRONG HORN 3111]

On 9/6/2024 at 6:56 PM, bolverk said:

Today, an American woman was murdered

 

Turkish woman with US citizenship.  Peaceful protestor.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

a Member of the International Solidarity Movement (ISM), a Palestinian-Led Movement focused on “Non-Violent Action”.

Richard David Hupper, a Member of the ISM, being sentenced to Three Years in a U.S. Federal Prison back in 2008, for funneling over $20,000 to. Hamas

 

 

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

[chainsaw 9841]

25 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

 

[Jive Turkey 12577]

 

[Brian Fantana 6672]

Terrorism, plain and simple

[PRONG HORN 3111]

19 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Terrorism, plain and simple

Exactly.  When the Palestinian people stop letting hamas occupy civilian areas, they won’t be treated like terrorists.  It’s their strategy to die for the cause.  
 

 

[Brian Fantana 6672]

Isn't it a little early in Moscow?

[PRONG HORN 3111]

On 9/6/2024 at 6:56 PM, bolverk said:

Today, an American woman was murdered

 

On 9/8/2024 at 4:21 AM, PRONG HORN said:

Turkish woman with US citizenship.  Peaceful protestor.  

 

 

Well whoever she is, I'm sure she would be happy to have had a military procession before her journey to Turkey.  Can anyone explain this one?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[wildcat09 29307]

7 hours ago, PRONG HORN said:

Exactly.  When the Palestinian people stop letting hamas occupy civilian areas, they won’t be treated like terrorists.  It’s their strategy to die for the cause.  
 

 

I hope hell is real so we can meet there.

[statsman 5431]

When Hamas puts its forces in civilian centers, they (Hamas) commit a war crime. When Israel bombs them, there, it is not committing a war crime. 
 
If Gaza has a NICU unit, and Sinwar puts his command post right next to it, it is not a war crime for Israel to bomb it. That’s an extreme example to illustrate a point. 
 
If you don’t like the formal rules of war, what is your proposal to change them to?

Is it your contention that the U.S. committed a war crime when it bombed Dresden? I know that’s what Nazi leaders proposed in the Nuremberg trials. 
 
Golda Meir said, “We can forgive them for killing our children. We can’t forgive them for making us kill theirs”. 

Edited September 10 by statsman

[wildcat09 29307]

6 minutes ago, statsman said:

When Hamas puts its forces in civilian centers, they (Hamas) commit a war crime. When Israel bombs them, there, it is not committing a war crime. 
 
If Gaza has a NICU unit, and Sinwar puts his command post right next to it, it is not a war crime for Israel to bomb it. That’s an extreme example to illustrate a point. 
 
If you don’t like the formal rules of war, what is your proposal to change them to?

Is it your contention that the U.S. committed a war crime when it bombed Dresden? I know that’s what Nazi leaders proposed in the Nuremberg trials. 
 
Golda Meir said, “We can forgive them for killing our children. We can’t forgive them for making us kill theirs”. 

A makeshift refugee camp isn't a "civilian center" teeming with Hamas leadership.  Use your fucking brain. 

[statsman 5431]

17 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

A makeshift refugee camp isn't a "civilian center" teeming with Hamas leadership.  Use your fucking brain. 

What? Are you still thinking that Hamas is hanging out in the barracks at Fort Arafat? That’s not how this works. Hamas imbeds among civilians and limits the civilians’ egress. 
 
Please answer the question- what should the rule of war be about enemy troops/militants imbedded among civilians?

[RomaVicta 29847]

13 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Terrorism, plain and simple

My thought exactly. They want these people to move to Egypt. They will seemingly do anything to facilitate that.

Netanyahu is a war criminal and horrific perpetrator of crimes against humanity. We must deny that man access to any US arms. I'm for helping Israel against air attacks and that's about it. 

Pronghorn defines himself yet again with his nihilistic support of these actions. 

[chainsaw 9841]

56 minutes ago, statsman said:

When Israel bombs them, there, it is not committing a war crime. 

Yes it is. The crime is aggravated when Israel is responsible for making these concentration camps.

[RomaVicta 29847]

58 minutes ago, statsman said:

When Hamas puts its forces in civilian centers, they (Hamas) commit a war crime. When Israel bombs them, there, it is not committing a war crime. 
 
If Gaza has a NICU unit, and Sinwar puts his command post right next to it, it is not a war crime for Israel to bomb it. That’s an extreme example to illustrate a point. 
 
If you don’t like the formal rules of war, what is your proposal to change them to?

Is it your contention that the U.S. committed a war crime when it bombed Dresden? I know that’s what Nazi leaders proposed in the Nuremberg trials. 
 
Golda Meir said, “We can forgive them for killing our children. We can’t forgive them for making us kill theirs”. 

First, your use of the pronoun them can mean a few different things, but grammatically it most likely should mean Hamas. Yes, Israel may bomb Hamas as an enemy. 

However, you seem to want to include innocent civilians among "them." If so, you want to claim bombing them is not a war crime. Is there any international law you're referring to, or is this just a baseless pronouncement? I know of nothing that supports indescriminate slaughter of civilians.

In short, you're fucking wrong about war crimes. Throughout this slaughter campaign, Israel has used 2000 and 1000 pound bombs on targets they claim (seldom with evidence) are directed at Hamas. That is not precision application of high explosive. It's using a sledge hammer to kill some ants on the wall. 

You're weakest point is to refer to America's violent acts of the past which may or may not be war crimes. We've committed them to be sure. So what? What does that have to do with Israel's war crimes? Your only point can be that as there is a precedent for such horrors perpetrated by the US, one cannot hold accountable an American ally for same. 

You propose international conflict unguided by any restraint regarding humanity. That is not my stand. That is not your country's stand.

I defer to Kubrick and Animal Mother.

[bolverk 29486]

@statsman 

Yes, civilians who are either unwittingly used as or coerced into being human shields remain protected persons under the Geneva Conventions. This doesn't mean the IDF can't target Hamas when they're embedded among civilians, but it does mean care should be taken so that the ratio of civilian deaths to the number of targets should be "proportional."

Unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be a hard and fast rule for that ratio, but there is language that broadly outlines "clearly excessive" civilian casualties. Many are arguing right now that the IDF's bombing in Gaza meets the excessive standard.

 

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Netanyahu is a war criminal. Know Israeli propaganda has been pumped HARD over the last 50 years in the USA but they are true evil at this point under Netanyahu.

Will throw in Ted Cruz being partly responsible as his AIPAC donor tells him how many weapons Israel needs.

[Chopper 17188]

This article is about Kamala Harris sending signals about her intentions regarding Israel when/if she becomes President. But it appears the Palestinian support groups are too caught up in their own metrics to understand.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/09/kamala-harris-israel-policy-palestine-gaza-war.html

[Brian Fantana 6672]

https://apnews.com/projects/west-bank-palestinian-teenagers-israel/

Unarmed Palestinian teen killed by IDF sniper take #12345. In the West Bank, where they definitely don't belong. Defend this @statsman you lying, coward piece of shit.

Let's see, what else...

https://abcnews.go.com/International/israels-5th-strike-same-gaza-school-totally-unacceptable/story?id=113619334

More deliberate strikes on humanitarian aid centers...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/09/11/american-activist-aysenur-eygi-killed-idf-west-bank/

Lying about assassinating activists...

https://www.npr.org/2024/09/12/g-s1-22336/jordan-elections-islamists-israel-gaza-war

Israel's actions predictably ramping up radical Islamist sentiment in the Middle East...

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-said-to-ask-ag-to-probe-him-gallant-in-bid-to-fend-off-icc-arrest-warrant/

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-09-12/ty-article/.premium/report-netanyahu-seeks-loophole-from-ag-in-limited-probe-to-evade-icc-warrants/00000191-e5d3-d119-a1db-e5d330d20000

Netanyahu desperately trying to do fraud to avoid the issuance of an international arrest warrant against him...

Anyone else got any good news?

[wildcat09 29307]

On 9/8/2024 at 4:21 AM, PRONG HORN said:

 

Turkish woman with US citizenship.  Peaceful protestor.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A Turkish woman with US citizenship is an American woman, you chode.

[chainsaw 9841]

Could you imagine how the MSM would cover a peacefully protesting American citizen killed "accidentally" by any other country's military?

[bolverk 29486]

22 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

A Turkish woman with US citizenship is an American woman, you chode.

And the "mob" wasn't rioting. I posted about it previously. She was with a group who prayed in a circle on the side of a hill as their way of protesting an illegal settlement. It was peaceful and a weekly. Well, it was peaceful until they were surrounded by settlers and the IDF which caused a brief confrontation. She was shot in the head by a sniper later while standing around with other internationals who had gathered together afterward. I believe a Brit was also shot in the leg.

Those two Xitter accounts, Visegrad 24 and OSINTdefender became popular after Russia invaded Ukraine, but both have been very biased against Palestinians during this conflict. Visegrad is reported to have close ties with a far-right Polish political party that is allied with Orban.

[Anastasis 23404]

The IDF shot a palestinian-american arab christian reporter, straight up gaslit everyone until they couldn't sustain that anymore, and suffered not one repercussion. They told the US to fuck right off, and State shifting their interest away from an independent investigation, but did lift a finger trying to stop an independent ICC investigation. US led rules-based order though. LOL.

I ain't gonna hold my breath on them giving a meaningful shit about this one either. 

Edited September 13 by Anastasis

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Pro Israeli propaganda has been pumped into the minds of millions and millions of Americans for decades. I'm more anti Netanyahu than anything. But if you critique their leader you are called antisemitic.

All people in Israel have free healthcare right? Why not America if we're giving them money?

[Anastasis 23404]

3 hours ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Pro Israeli propaganda has been pumped into the minds of millions and millions of Americans for decades.

And for a sizable number of evangelicals they get it pumped into them as a kid starting in Sunday school. It’s all totally crazy shit. But that shit is very sticky and hard to unwind, for many even after they lose their faith tradition the world view indoctrination sticks. 

[hobbes2702 12970]

On 9/10/2024 at 10:59 AM, statsman said:

When Hamas puts its forces in civilian centers, they (Hamas) commit a war crime. When Israel bombs them, there, it is not committing a war crime. 
 
If Gaza has a NICU unit, and Sinwar puts his command post right next to it, it is not a war crime for Israel to bomb it. That’s an extreme example to illustrate a point. 
 
If you don’t like the formal rules of war, what is your proposal to change them to?

Is it your contention that the U.S. committed a war crime when it bombed Dresden? I know that’s what Nazi leaders proposed in the Nuremberg trials. 
 
Golda Meir said, “We can forgive them for killing our children. We can’t forgive them for making us kill theirs”. 

Israeli actions force civilians into humanitarian center.

Israel bombs humanitarian center.

Why would Hamas do this?

Insert bike spoke stick gif.

[chainsaw 9841]

3 hours ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Pro Israeli propaganda has been pumped into the minds of millions and millions of Americans for decades. I'm more anti Netanyahu than anything. But if you critique their leader you are called antisemitic.

All people in Israel have free healthcare right? Why not America if we're giving them money?

I've been thinking it would be effective not to alienate Israel when criticizing what it is doing by making a distinction between Likud and Israel, and calling it Likud Israel in the same way we say Nazi Germany to distinguish it from modern Germany and to denote that it was being controlled by a right-wing populist movement.

So long as Israel is being controlled by a bloodthirsty right-wing regime, it has earned a fitting moniker. Call it Likud Israel and it's much more difficult to lob antisemitism accusations at people who criticize what Likud Israel is doing.

[PRONG HORN 3111]

 

 

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

On 9/15/2024 at 11:02 AM, Anastasis said:

And for a sizable number of evangelicals they get it pumped into them as a kid starting in Sunday school. It’s all totally crazy shit. But that shit is very sticky and hard to unwind, for many even after they lose their faith tradition the world view indoctrination sticks. 

Not that they would admit it but many Evangelicals see the Palestinians as subhuman because they are brown and practice a different religion.

Anytime you critique Israel they act like half of their surrounding neighbors are just random terrorists that have done all these awful things completely unprovoked.

[Dish Boggett 67]

8 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

 

Anytime you critique Israel they act like half of their surrounding neighbors are just random terrorists that have done all these awful things completely unprovoked.

Agreed, both sides of this conflict are reprehensible but one side always gets a pass in America, especially by the religious right. There is a lot of white washing of the actions of the Israel.

Great Britain deserves the credit for creating this mess over 100 years ago. Promising combating factions the same land in return for support for their war efforts turns out not to be a good idea.

 

[LCHorn 2589]

7 minutes ago, Dish Boggett said:

Great Britain deserves the credit for creating this mess over 100 years ago.

Eh, there’s got to be stature of limitations on blame.  Why not blame the Ottomans for resettling thousands of Jews in the Levant after their expulsion from Spain?  Or maybe the medieval Arabs for establishing a culture of religious tolerance picked up by the Ottomans that allowed the Jews the right to practice their own religion rather than assimilate (as the Spanish required)?

 

 

[Welshy 907]

I blame the Neo-assyrians.

[wildcat09 29307]

4 hours ago, LCHorn said:

Eh, there’s got to be stature of limitations on blame.  Why not blame the Ottomans for resettling thousands of Jews in the Levant after their expulsion from Spain?  Or maybe the medieval Arabs for establishing a culture of religious tolerance picked up by the Ottomans that allowed the Jews the right to practice their own religion rather than assimilate (as the Spanish required)?

 

 

There's a statute of limitations, but we're still well within the period where it's still acceptable to blame the British. Fuck em.

[RomaVicta 29847]

8 hours ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

 

Here are the good guys who will kill those teenage bad guys.

 

Mission: Drop 1000 pound bomb on teenager with machine gun.

Jehovah! I love assymetrical combat from a cockpit!

 

Yea, we like our chances against that teenager with a machine gun.

Got to stop evil some way. Tank artillery! Hoo-ah!

[Dish Boggett 67]

NM

Edited September 20 by Dish Boggett
quoted the wrong post

[Dish Boggett 67]

5 hours ago, LCHorn said:

Eh, there’s got to be stature of limitations on blame.  Why not blame the Ottomans for resettling thousands of Jews in the Levant after their expulsion from Spain?  Or maybe the medieval Arabs for establishing a culture of religious tolerance picked up by the Ottomans that allowed the Jews the right to practice their own religion rather than assimilate (as the Spanish required)?

 

 

Fair enough, I suppose since the Brits are the last ones to get it wrong they carry the most blame

[Brian Fantana 6672]

"Guys when can we stop blaming colonialism" lol

[Jatrain 288]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/sep/20/israeli-soldiers-filmed-pushing-bodies-of-palestinians-off-west-bank-roof

 

Don’t worry, the IDF is investigating.  I’m sure they’ll get to the bottom of it.  

[PRONG HORN 3111]

10 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

Here are the good guys who will kill those teenage bad guys.

 

 

Hopefully they already did.  Especially that woman  ; )

 

 

 

[HenryJames 65927]

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-09-19/ty-article/.premium/new-evidence-reveals-netanyahus-relentless-efforts-to-block-hostage-deal-report-shows/00000192-0a79-d1bc-a1ff-2e7fe0420000

[Satchel 6911]

On 9/20/2024 at 7:15 AM, Loch Ness Monster said:

Not that they would admit it but many Evangelicals see the Palestinians as subhuman because they are brown and practice a different religion.

Anytime you critique Israel they act like half of their surrounding neighbors are just random terrorists that have done all these awful things completely unprovoked.

You think there’s any inner dissonance when the evangelicals consider the Palestinian Christians?

[Satchel 6911]

President Harris should dust off the old playbook and do things that haven’t been done in quite a while:

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2021/05/24/ronald-reagan-wasnt-afraid-to-use-leverage-to-hold-israel-to-task/

https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/03/29/biden-netanyahu-israel-gaza-aid-weapons-leverage-pressure-bush-baker/

[Brian Fantana 6672]

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-al-jazeera-gaza-war-hamas-4abdb2969e39e7ad99dfbf9caa7bb32c

This is always a good sign you're on the right side of history

[PRONG HORN 3111]

2 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:This is always a good sign you're on the right side of history

This is always a good sign you're on the right side of history

 

 

Exactly.  They are taking out the trash.  

 

 

Quote

ordering the bureau to shut down amid a widening campaign by Israel targeting the Qatar-funded broadcaster as it covers the Israel-Hamas war in the Gaza Strip.

 

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

US gonna be drawn into another war in the Middle East?

Can we get some healthcare for all Americans first?

[chainsaw 9841]

55 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

US gonna be drawn into another war in the Middle East?

Can we get some healthcare for all Americans first?

Did you know the Israeli government provides abortions for free?

[Blotto 23462]

Quote

Macklemore addressed the controversy surrounding his comment made while performing at a benefit concert called Palestine Will Live Forever. Over the weekend, the rapper performed his pro-Palestine song “Hind’s Hall 2” in Seattle, Washington, and made headlines for saying, “Fuck America” during the event.

In a lengthy statement posted to Instagram, Macklemore wrote, “My thoughts and feelings are not always expressed perfectly or politely. Sometimes I slip up and get caught in the moment. Saturday night was one of those times. … Unfortunately, the historic event in my hometown that brought thousands of people together to raise awareness and money for the people of Palestine has become overshadowed by two words.”

The artist expressed his frustration with the United State’s involvement in the Israel-Hamas war and said “watching a genocide unfold in front of us has been excruciating on a spiritual, emotional and human level.” He said he has been “disillusioned and disheartened as our government has continued to unequivocally fund and support Israel’s on-going violence against the people of Palestine.”

In May, Macklemore released “Hind’s Hall,” a protest track and prequel to “Hind’s Hall 2” supporting pro-Palestinian protesters at college campuses across the country and calling for an end to Israel’s war in Gaza. At the time, he announced that he would donate all proceeds to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees.  

Macklemore has been an outspoken opponent of the war in Gaza, releasing a statement last October and speaking at a demonstration in Washington, D.C., the following month.

Elsewhere in his statement Wednesday, Macklemore said he has been “mobilized by the millions of people around the world taking to the streets to protest on behalf of all those that have been murdered by Netanyahu’s regime.” He said he has “found hope in our young people, who have been willing to risk their degrees by participating in college encampments to demand a ceasefire,” and often added to his sentiments: “I don’t think I’m alone.”

Macklemore shared that he has “lost endorsements, I’ve lost shows, I’ve lost business ties,” and said he remains “unwavering” in his “support for a Free Palestine.” He concluded, “My intent always comes back to the pursuit of peace, love, equality and liberation for all. And that isn’t radical, it’s human. I don’t think I’m alone.”

say it aint so, @Macklemore

[RomaVicta 29847]

On 9/10/2024 at 5:39 PM, Chopper said:

This article is about Kamala Harris sending signals about her intentions regarding Israel when/if she becomes President. But it appears the Palestinian support groups are too caught up in their own metrics to understand.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/09/kamala-harris-israel-policy-palestine-gaza-war.html

All that thinkin' and rational-ty maht hurt her in the campaign season, doncha know.

Thanks for making me aware this.