Israel

[chainsaw 9840]

2 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

We're the champions of that!

That was different. We were supposed to be greeted as liberators!

[Longhorn_Fan68 33853]

3 minutes ago, Satchel said:

When Trump finally loses, it won’t be because Bibi didn’t do everything satanically possible to help him win.

good news for him, he doesn't believe in satan. checkmate!

[Satchel 6911]

2 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

good news for him, he doesn't believe in satan. checkmate!

Most people aren’t aware that Bibi is not a practicing religious Jew. Most evangelicals just assume he is. 

[RomaVicta 29845]

On 10/1/2024 at 1:16 PM, Brisketexan said:

The smart response?  Keep playing the game YOU have chosen, not the game your impotent enemy wants to play.

Israel has been making masterful chess moves v. Iran in recent months.  Keep playing that game, don't be distracted AT ALL by theatrics and performative bullshit.  Iran just made noise.  Ignore it and keep on trucking, pursuing your plans using your intel as you have been.

I strongly suspect that will be how Israel plays it.  Israel isn't looking to put on a show.  They aren't looking to "escalate."  They also aren't looking to "de-escalate."  They have goals they want to accomplish re Iran and Hezbollah.  They are accomplishing them, and they are likely to keep doing so for some time.

 

To me, it looks like the war criminal Netanyahu is trying to recreate the baptism montage from the Godfather. To me, it looks like he wants to create a greater Israel through bloody, inhuman conquest.

They dropped 2000 lb bombs on the neighborhoods where Hezbollah headquarters. If they repeat their Gaza strategy, they'll use that justification to use high explosives in non-combatant neighborhoods whether there is a real threat to Israel there or not.

I see Israeli policy as pointing to a general showdown and greater MidEast conflagration in order to get rid of the Palestinians once and for all. 

They are justified in attacking Hezbollah and certainly for attacking Hamas. Their lack of concern about precision and their brutal treatment of captives shows bloodlust to me. I don't want our name on it. I wouldn't supply Israel with anything for a few weeks and then re-negotiate any deal we have.

I would not have an Israeli Donald Trump leading up by the nose into a war against Islam. I don't want to see Israel driven into the sea, so I would help with air defense. That's it.

 

20 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Fair, but there are still ways Israel can lose, in terms of standing in the world, as well as in cost/losses. To continue the metaphor, losing too many pieces as you get the win would not be the best outcome.

It would still be the outcome they seek. It's clear Israeli leadership doesn't give a fig for their standing in the world.

Edited October 2 by RomaVicta

[RomaVicta 29845]

Massive displacement. Destruction of medical facilities. Interference with humanitarian aid. Targetting of journalists. Tons of high explosive bombs (made in the USA! Supplied by the USA!) dropped among non-combatants. 

America aids and abets a slaughter in the Middle East pretty obviously designed to inflict maximum harm on general populations. Netanyahu makes Israel an outlaw state way over on the bloodthirsty side of the spectrum.

Shame on us.

[hpslugga 4053]

16 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Massive displacement. Destruction of medical facilities. Interference with humanitarian aid. Targetting of journalists. Tons of high explosive bombs (made in the USA! Supplied by the USA!) dropped among non-combatants. 

America aids and abets a slaughter in the Middle East pretty obviously designed to inflict maximum harm on general populations. Netanyahu makes Israel an outlaw state way over on the bloodthirsty side of the spectrum.

Shame on us.

And yet they’ll still have their US-based cheering section, as evidenced by the sheer depravity, buffoonery, and not least of all, historical incompetence by our usual suspects in this ghastly thread. But they’ll keep marching in lockstep, mindlessly droning the same popular refrains like the intellectual beggars they’ve always been, regardless of what you tell them…no differently than MAGA, actually. 

Edited October 3 by hpslugga

[chainsaw 9840]

Has anyone asked John Kirby if Lebannon has a right to self defense?

[BrickHorn 18199]

1 hour ago, hpslugga said:

And yet they’ll still have their US-based cheering section, as evidenced by the sheer depravity, buffoonery, and not least of all, historical incompetence by our usual suspects in this ghastly thread.

It’s amazing how ignorant seemingly educated Americans are about the most basic historical facts of this conflict.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20354]

"Those responsible for sacking the previously leader of Hezbollah, who had been sacked after he replaced the previous leader of Hezbollah, who had been sacked, have sacked his successor."

 

 

 

[RomaVicta 29845]

2 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

"Those responsible for sacking the previously leader of Hezbollah, who had been sacked after he replaced the previous leader of Hezbollah, who had been sacked, have sacked his successor."

 

 

 

And it won't make a bit of difference. We celebrate these justified killings as though they are great victories. The terrorist armies are still there. But, hey, we impotently blew up a dickhead! 

[Hornius Emeritus 12444]

1 hour ago, RomaVicta said:

And it won't make a bit of difference. We celebrate these justified killings as though they are great victories. The terrorist armies are still there. But, hey, we impotently blew up a dickhead! 

Apparently, Israel got the whole Hezbollah Shura Council that was meeting to elect Safieddine as Nasrallah's successor. This makes me think that Israel knew where Safieddine has been, all along, and was waiting for this meeting to take them out wholesale, instead of one by one. Israel knew exactly when and where the meeting was to take place. The explosion was massive --- even more massive than the one that took out that first guy last week.

[Hagbard Celine 10797]

if anyone hasn't figured it out, israel has the largest drone force on the planet, with sigint capability beyond anything *deployed* by the us team

they fly every night and could probably do things such as record every conversation they want to record in any structure that is not hardened against EM signal propagation; build a 3-d heat map of any building they are interested in; even refine the IR signature of individuals they are interested in

remember the below video?

 

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

On 10/2/2024 at 3:43 PM, RomaVicta said:

They are justified in attacking Hezbollah and certainly for attacking Hamas. Their lack of concern about precision and their brutal treatment of captives shows bloodlust to me. I don't want our name on it. I wouldn't supply Israel with anything for a few weeks and then re-negotiate any deal we have.

Not directed towards you but its amazing how many Americans believe everything started October 7 2023. Chomsky was talking about the killing of Palestinians in Gaza using American weapons and illegal settlements in the West Bank 10 years ago.

Also how many Americans believe a lot of Middle Eastern countries hate the USA because of freedom. No they realize America has helped destabilize the region for decades and supported a lot of oppressive regimes.

[RomaVicta 29845]

13 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Not directed towards you but its amazing how many Americans believe everything started October 7 2023. Chomsky was talking about the killing of Palestinians in Gaza using American weapons and illegal settlements in the West Bank 10 years ago.

Also how many Americans believe a lot of Middle Eastern countries hate the USA because of freedom. No they realize America has helped destabilize the region for decades and supported a lot of oppressive regimes.

Absolutely agree. A smaller point that has bothered me when we pick a new country to invade but use the word "liberate" is how we don't call the enemy the enemy; we call them bad guys. I don't like how that re-enforces the notion that we're always good fighting evil.

We keep telling ourselves that everywhere we go to kill people ourselves is a re-run of WWII. Our war discussion or discussions about issues like the expanding Israeli war on the civiliam populations around them is so seldom pragmatic. What is good for the US in all of this?

But we love those balleyhooed tactical victories where we blow up a terrorist leader, and nothing changes.

['stache 21778]

18 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

"Those responsible for sacking the previously leader of Hezbollah, who had been sacked after he replaced the previous leader of Hezbollah, who had been sacked, have sacked his successor."

 

 

 

Stuff like this tells me that Israel has good intelligence and is capable of fighting targeted wars against terrorist groups without having to level cities and displace millions of civilians.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20354]

3 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

 

But we love those balleyhooed tactical victories where we blow up a terrorist leader, and nothing changes.

I disagree that nothing has changed. It certainly has changed, even if that change is not permanent.  It would appear that a lot of institutional knowledge has been and continues to be decimated by Israel.    I would imagine that it's pretty hard to find anybody who wants to lead Hezbollah right now and I'm thinking that, as Israel continues to prove that it can destroy Hezbollah almost at will, that recruiting new Hezbollah fighters might be a challenge, too.  I can hear the conversations now.  "Hezbollah? Me? Never heard of them.  I'm just a simple pizza delivery boy."

[RomaVicta 29845]

23 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

I disagree that nothing has changed. It certainly has changed, even if that change is not permanent.  It would appear that a lot of institutional knowledge has been and continues to be decimated by Israel.    I would imagine that it's pretty hard to find anybody who wants to lead Hezbollah right now and I'm thinking that, as Israel continues to prove that it can destroy Hezbollah almost at will, that recruiting new Hezbollah fighters might be a challenge, too.  I can hear the conversations now.  "Hezbollah? Me? Never heard of them.  I'm just a simple pizza delivery boy."

Oddly enough enough, there were scholars on an NPR show this morning all concurring that Israel is brilliant at tactical victories, but they can't seem to parlay them into achieving any larger goals.

Respectfully, I think your rationale reflects what is always getting us into trouble. We regularly believe that our force of arms will terrorize prospective opponents into cowed submission. It never happens that way. Other peoples are as brave as us. They object angrily when people they know are blown up by American bombs just like we do when somebody blows up Americans. Just like us, people will find a way to fight when roused.

Specifically, I don't think any terrorist leaders have expected to retire in comfort one day. We and the Isrelis have been killing them off for decades. The movements using terrorism largely remain as they have for decades. 

I've felt for a long time that American foreign policy has been reduced to cheap theater for rubes back home. This theater is the same as our mythology about good guys killing bad guys and we celebrate the easy closure. In the real world, the curtain never comes down. Solutions aren't often easy. Being right doesn't guarantee you'll prevail. 

The mature world (I'm speaking generally not condescending to you) is that of Leonard Cohen. 

Everybody Knows.

 

Edited October 4 by RomaVicta

[bolverk 29486]

8 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

We regularly believe that our force of arms will terrorize prospective opponents into cowed submission. It never happens that way. Other peoples are as brave as us. They object angrily when people they know are blown up by American bombs just like we do when somebody blows up Americans. Just like us, people will find a way to fight when roused.

It's not a perfect fit because it really addresses the resigned determination to just muddle through as best as folks can despite the mental toll, but this section of your post reminded me of a short piece I read earlier this afternoon.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/10/04/world/israel-iran-hezbollah-lebanon

Beirut is sleepless.

The Israeli airstrikes are worst at night. By day, residents walk the city with haggard faces, trying their best to fight fatigue and calm their nerves. Empty cigarette packets pile up in handbags and in the footwells of cars. Anti-anxiety medication is shared among friends.

Many people have simply fled the city, deeming it, after two weeks of intense bombardment, unlivable.

“When will this end?” the 7-year-old daughter of Farah Choucair, an economist who spent 14 years working for the United Nations, asked her mother last week.

For the child, the pounding Israeli strikes are a flashback to the deadly Beirut port blast, which ripped through the Lebanese capital just over four years ago and destroyed entire neighborhoods. Ms. Choucair, who now works for a media technology company, said it took years of psychological support for her to process the trauma, but her daughter never did.

“I don't think she ever recovered,” she said of her daughter.

For many in Beirut, the continuing conflict is just one in a long line of human catastrophes. The city’s bullet-ridden apartment buildings serve as a daily reminder of Lebanon’s bloody 15-year civil war, which ended in 1990. A crippling economic collapse that struck decades later has left much of the country in poverty, and residents are still grappling with chronic power cuts even as the capital is bombarded.

Beirut and its surrounding neighborhoods have been pounded by Israeli airstrikes targeting Hezbollah and its leaders for the past two weeks, reducing sections of the city to ruins. Just months ago, an Israeli strike in the heart of the city was an abrupt turn of events that escalated the conflict. Now, it is fast becoming the norm, punctuating bedtimes, family dinners and phone calls with friends.

Many residents say they loathe the stereotype that the Lebanese are resilient.

“I wish sometimes that we could just sit and cry our eyes out and not know what to do, but we always know what to do — what to pack, what we need,” said Ms. Choucair. “It has nothing to do with resilience or any positive trait. It’s a natural survival mode that we have been trained to automate.”

She added: “This is how it is living in Beirut. It will never change. I am 41. It has been like this for as long as I remember.”

Many apartments now lie vacant in Beirut, a once-bustling Mediterranean city and home to 2.5 million people. Those that had the means have fled up the coast or into the surrounding hills, but this has done little to ease their growing fears. The distant thump of Israeli airstrikes seems to draw closer with each passing day. Nights, too, are spent fretting over whether a sound was just a neighbor’s slamming door — or something more.

“All my dreams are about bombs,” said Heba Jundi, 36, who was staying at a friend’s house in the mountains above Beirut with her cat, Benji.

“Some nights I go to bed, I close my eyes, but I don’t allow myself to sleep,” said Ms. Jundi. “I’m telling myself that I’m waiting for the bomb to happen, and that I’m going to hear it any second now. We are all waiting for this to stop, but at the same time we know it is not going to stop, and we just have no clue or understanding of where this is going to go.”

Like so many others, she had begun taking anti-anxiety medication to deal with the stress, but said it was having little effect.

“I don’t know how much more the city can take,” Ms. Jundi said, “and I don’t think anyone wants to find out.”

[Longhorn_Fan68 33853]

glad biden finally called out bibi today, he talked all the ass he's been kicking and basically said he doesn't know if you he's holding up peace talks to influence the election. i bet we see movement now.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20354]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

It's not a perfect fit because it really addresses the resigned determination to just muddle through as best as folks can despite the mental toll, but this section of your post reminded me of a short piece I read earlier this afternoon.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/10/04/world/israel-iran-hezbollah-lebanon

Beirut is sleepless.

The Israeli airstrikes are worst at night. By day, residents walk the city with haggard faces, trying their best to fight fatigue and calm their nerves. Empty cigarette packets pile up in handbags and in the footwells of cars. Anti-anxiety medication is shared among friends.

Many people have simply fled the city, deeming it, after two weeks of intense bombardment, unlivable.

“When will this end?” the 7-year-old daughter of Farah Choucair, an economist who spent 14 years working for the United Nations, asked her mother last week.

For the child, the pounding Israeli strikes are a flashback to the deadly Beirut port blast, which ripped through the Lebanese capital just over four years ago and destroyed entire neighborhoods. Ms. Choucair, who now works for a media technology company, said it took years of psychological support for her to process the trauma, but her daughter never did.

“I don't think she ever recovered,” she said of her daughter.

For many in Beirut, the continuing conflict is just one in a long line of human catastrophes. The city’s bullet-ridden apartment buildings serve as a daily reminder of Lebanon’s bloody 15-year civil war, which ended in 1990. A crippling economic collapse that struck decades later has left much of the country in poverty, and residents are still grappling with chronic power cuts even as the capital is bombarded.

Beirut and its surrounding neighborhoods have been pounded by Israeli airstrikes targeting Hezbollah and its leaders for the past two weeks, reducing sections of the city to ruins. Just months ago, an Israeli strike in the heart of the city was an abrupt turn of events that escalated the conflict. Now, it is fast becoming the norm, punctuating bedtimes, family dinners and phone calls with friends.

Many residents say they loathe the stereotype that the Lebanese are resilient.

“I wish sometimes that we could just sit and cry our eyes out and not know what to do, but we always know what to do — what to pack, what we need,” said Ms. Choucair. “It has nothing to do with resilience or any positive trait. It’s a natural survival mode that we have been trained to automate.”

She added: “This is how it is living in Beirut. It will never change. I am 41. It has been like this for as long as I remember.”

Many apartments now lie vacant in Beirut, a once-bustling Mediterranean city and home to 2.5 million people. Those that had the means have fled up the coast or into the surrounding hills, but this has done little to ease their growing fears. The distant thump of Israeli airstrikes seems to draw closer with each passing day. Nights, too, are spent fretting over whether a sound was just a neighbor’s slamming door — or something more.

“All my dreams are about bombs,” said Heba Jundi, 36, who was staying at a friend’s house in the mountains above Beirut with her cat, Benji.

“Some nights I go to bed, I close my eyes, but I don’t allow myself to sleep,” said Ms. Jundi. “I’m telling myself that I’m waiting for the bomb to happen, and that I’m going to hear it any second now. We are all waiting for this to stop, but at the same time we know it is not going to stop, and we just have no clue or understanding of where this is going to go.”

Like so many others, she had begun taking anti-anxiety medication to deal with the stress, but said it was having little effect.

“I don’t know how much more the city can take,” Ms. Jundi said, “and I don’t think anyone wants to find out.”

Sounds like the native Lebanese and anybody else who cares about Beirut or who fondly remembers how cosmopolitan/international it used to be should demand that Hezbollah leave. 

[Hagbard Celine 10797]

you'll never get a coalition united to kick out hezbollah:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Lebanon

[chainsaw 9840]

5 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

biden finally called out bibi today

must have missed this

[Longhorn_Fan68 33853]

13 hours ago, chainsaw said:

must have missed this

https://apnews.com/video/israel-government-joe-biden-united-states-government-israel-benjamin-netanyahu-9d8ef641d3934f438aa176b1b510fe94

 

[TeeDubya 3360]

BREAKING:

Israeli Channel 12 now reports that head of the Quds Force, Esmail Qaani, was present in Nasrallah’s bunker when it was hit by Israel.

The brigadier general of the IRGC is the successor of Qasem Soleimani, who was killed in an airstrike ordered by Trump.

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

4.5 earthquake in Iran. Earthquake or nuke test?

https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/us6000nwr9/executive

 

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

On 10/4/2024 at 6:03 PM, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Sounds like the native Lebanese and anybody else who cares about Beirut or who fondly remembers how cosmopolitan/international it used to be should demand that Hezbollah leave. 

A few Lebanese people I've talked to says they wish they could become Jordan or Egypt and mostly mind their own business as a country but they don't see that ever happening. Dropping bombs on a population rarely wins hearts and minds so the cycle continues.

Saw a Kamala 60 minutes clip:

 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20354]

 

 

 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20354]

 

 

 

 

[realgreggym 835]

On 10/4/2024 at 11:38 AM, Loch Ness Monster said:

Not directed towards you but its amazing how many Americans believe everything started October 7 2023. Chomsky was talking about the killing of Palestinians in Gaza using American weapons and illegal settlements in the West Bank 10 years ago.

Also how many Americans believe a lot of Middle Eastern countries hate the USA because of freedom. No they realize America has helped destabilize the region for decades and supported a lot of oppressive regimes.

Both you and the idiot chomsky are wrong. During WW2, the palestinian mullahs supported Hitler's attempt

to murder as many Jews as possible. Then in 1948, the arab countries attacked Israel and there has been fighring

ever since.

[Brian Fantana 6672]

[statsman 5431]

Posted here, rather than in DT, because the linked story is from opinion page. 
 
https://www.wsj.com/opinion/a-yazidi-woman-is-liberated-from-slavery-in-gaza-connection-isis-hamas-jihadists-3e94060e?st=WDWonf&reflink=mobilewebshare_permalink

[David Dennison 18756]

8 hours ago, realgreggym said:

Both you and the idiot chomsky are wrong. During WW2, the palestinian mullahs supported Hitler's attempt

to murder as many Jews as possible. Then in 1948, the arab countries attacked Israel and there has been fighring

ever since.

There's been a slight shift in the balance of power since then.

Just look at the massive disparity in casualties between Israel and Palestinians.

 

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

10 hours ago, realgreggym said:

Both you and the idiot chomsky are wrong. During WW2, the palestinian mullahs supported Hitler's attempt

to murder as many Jews as possible. Then in 1948, the arab countries attacked Israel and there has been fighring

ever since.

Two wrongs don't make a right. 

"In Gaza, there have been over 41,000 deaths (around half women and children) over 90 percent of the population has been displaced, all schools have been closed since the beginning of the conflict, over half of Gaza's hospitals and primary health care centers are completely out of service, there's widespread food insecurity and two-thirds of employment lost, utilities have been severely degraded, and there are an estimated 40 million tons of rubble and debris in Gaza. Israelis have also suffered humanitarian impacts. In addition to the 1,200 initial deaths, many of the 250 Israeli hostages have now died. Over 100,000 Israelis have been displaced, particularly communities near the Gaza Strip and along the southern border with Lebanon. In southern Lebanon, some 210,000 people have been displaced since the fighting began in October 2023."

[Brian Fantana 6672]

Hard to believe it's been a year since the Hamas attack. Less hard to believe things have just gotten worse.

[Brisketexan 104785]

8 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Hard to believe it's been a year since the Hamas attack. Less hard to believe things have just gotten worse.

Oh, buck up, Brian....they'll get even worse than they are now!

[Brian Fantana 6672]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/10/un-peacekeepers-in-lebanon-say-israel-has-fired-on-their-bases-deliberately

[wildcat09 29302]

Israel is just a rogue state at this point. When Harris wins, her administration is going to need to rethink our entire relationship with them. 

[statsman 5431]

44 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/10/un-peacekeepers-in-lebanon-say-israel-has-fired-on-their-bases-deliberately

UN peacekeepers? What’s their mission? Keeping Hezbollah from firing missiles into northern Israel, so the 100,000 displaced Israelis can return home?

[Brian Fantana 6672]

4 minutes ago, statsman said:

UN peacekeepers? What’s their mission? Keeping Hezbollah from firing missiles into northern Israel, so the 100,000 displaced Israelis can return home?

Why don't you read the article and figure it out for yourself, you dumb fucking bitch?

[wildcat09 29302]

4 minutes ago, statsman said:

UN peacekeepers? What’s their mission? Keeping Hezbollah from firing missiles into northern Israel, so the 100,000 displaced Israelis can return home?

You're right, it's actually cool and good for Israel to be firing on Irish troops deployed as part of a United Nations mission.  

[Brian Fantana 6672]

16 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

You're right, it's actually cool and good for Israel to be firing on Irish troops deployed as part of a United Nations mission.  

Stupid fuck saw a headline that contained the words "UN Peacekeepers" and couldn't wait to make himself a nice little shitpost to fuck the thread up instead of trying to engage in good faith and have an actual discussion.

And every time @immamac bitches about the thread sucking I would love to just point to shit like this.

[immamac 42724]

This thread fucking sucks. 

[chainsaw 9840]

Joe Biden is probably the worst possible president for this issue and this moment. Netanyahu is not even trying to hide his preference for Trump, so that says a lot about Biden's servility.

[RomaVicta 29845]

1 hour ago, chainsaw said:

Joe Biden is probably the worst possible president for this issue and this moment. Netanyahu is not even trying to hide his preference for Trump, so that says a lot about Biden's servility.

[Gandalfish 335]

18 hours ago, immamac said:

This thread fucking sucks. 

But still not as much as OU sucks.

[Hornius Emeritus 12444]

 

 

 

 

 

[hpslugga 4053]

22 hours ago, immamac said:

This thread fucking sucks. 

Again, been sucking for over a year…and just like pre-October 7th for the Palestinians, not all that great either.

[chainsaw 9840]

The brilliant Eli David

 

[Brisketexan 104785]

45 minutes ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

 

 

 

 

 

Yes.  All that money and gold was destroyed.  Definitely nobody nabbed it beforehand, and then let everyone think that it all got burned up.

[Pescado_Rojo 19346]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Yes.  All that money and gold was destroyed.  Definitely nobody nabbed it beforehand, and then let everyone think that it all got burned up.

Like when the cops bust a guy with 5 2.5 lbs of weed.