Jump to content

Israel


SmokeyBear1861

Recommended Posts

As many of us have been saying, this has been Bibi's goal all along. The only shocking thing is WE are going to do it for him, probably foot most of the bill (and shed most of the blood), and likely hand it over on the contingency of granting development opportunities to TrumpCo and friends. 

Quote

 

Trump promises to turn Gaza into ‘the Riviera of the Middle East.’
President Trump declared on Tuesday that he would seek to permanently displace the entire Palestinian population of Gaza and take over the devastated seaside enclave as a U.S. territory, one of the most audacious ideas that any American leader has advanced in years.

Hosting Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel at the White House, Mr. Trump said that all 2 million Palestinians from Gaza should be moved to countries like Egypt and Jordan because of the devastation wrought by Israel’s war with Hamas after the terrorist attack of Oct. 7, 2023.

“The U.S. will take over the Gaza Strip and we will do a job with it too,” Mr. Trump said at an evening news conference. “We’ll own it and be responsible” for disposing of unexploded munitions and rebuilding Gaza into a mecca for jobs and tourism. Sounding like the real estate developer he once was, he vowed to turn it into “the Riviera of the Middle East.”

While the president framed the matter as a humanitarian imperative and an economic development opportunity, he effectively reopened a geopolitical Pandora’s box with far-reaching implications for the Middle East. Control over Gaza has been one of the major flash points of the Arab-Israeli conflict going back decades, and the idea of relocating its Palestinian residents recalls an era when Western great powers redrew the maps of the region and moved around populations without regard to local autonomy.

The notion of the United States taking over sovereign territory in the Middle East would be a dramatic reversal for Mr. Trump, who first ran for office in 2016 vowing to extract America from the region following the Iraq war and decried the nation-building of his predecessors. In unveiling the plan, Mr. Trump did not cite any legal authority giving him the right to take over the territory, nor did he address the fact that forcible removal of a population violates international law.

Hamas, which has ruled in Gaza for most of the past two decades and is re-establishing control there now, immediately rejected mass relocation on Tuesday, and Egypt and Jordan have rejected the idea of taking in a large influx of Palestinians, given the fraught history, burden and destabilizing potential. But Mr. Netanyahu, sitting at Mr. Trump’s side in the Oval Office, smiled with satisfaction as the president first outlined his ideas.

“I don’t think people should be going back to Gaza,” Mr. Trump said. “I heard that Gaza has been very unlucky for them. They live like hell. They live like they’re living in hell. Gaza is not a place for people to be living, and the only reason they want to go back, and I believe this strongly, is because they have no alternative.”

He suggested that nations in the region could finance the resettlement of Gazans to new places that would provide better living conditions, either as a single territory or as many as a dozen. “It would be my hope that we could do something really nice, really good, where they wouldn’t want to return,” he said without offering details of what that would entail.

Asked how many Palestinians he had in mind, he said, “all of them,” adding, “I would think that they would be thrilled.” Pressed repeatedly on whether he would force them to go even if they did not want to, Mr. Trump said, “I don’t think they’re going to tell me no.”

Hamas, at least, was quick to tell him no. Sami Abu Zuhri, a senior Hamas official, said that the president’s proposed relocation was “a recipe for creating chaos and tension in the region.”

“Our people in Gaza will not allow for these plans to come to pass,” he said in a statement distributed by Hamas. “What is needed is the end of the occupation and the aggression against our people, not expelling them from their land.”

Gaza has a long and tortured history of conflict and crisis. Many Gazans are descendants of Palestinians who were forced out of their homes during the 1948 war following Israel’s independence, an event known around the Arab world as the Nakba, or catastrophe. Now Mr. Trump is suggesting that they be displaced again, even though the Geneva Conventions — international agreements that the United States and Israel both ratified — bar forcible relocation of populations.

Egypt captured Gaza during the 1948 war and controlled it until Israel seized it along with other Palestinian territory in a 1967 war against a coalition of Arab nations seeking to destroy the Jewish state. Palestinians in Gaza waged violent resistance for years afterward, and Israel eventually withdrew from Gaza in 2005.

But within two years, Hamas, an avowed enemy of Israel that is designated a terrorist group by the United States and other nations, took control of the enclave and used it as a base for war against Israel.

For years, Israel blockaded Gaza while Hamas fired rockets and staged terrorist attacks, culminating in the October 2023 operation that killed 1,200 people and led to the capture of 250 more. Israel retaliated with an unrelenting military operation that killed more than 47,000 people, according to Gazan health officials, whose count does not distinguish between civilians and combatants.

In the weeks since a cease-fire negotiated under President Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s administration and pushed by Mr. Trump came into effect, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians repeatedly displaced throughout the war have returned to their homes in Gaza to find them and their communities demolished. Steve Witkoff, Mr. Trump’s new Middle East envoy, visited Gaza last week and said it would take 10 to 15 years to reconstruct.

“If you had damage that was one-hundredth of what I saw in Gaza, nobody would be allowed to go back to their homes,” Mr. Witkoff told reporters on Tuesday. “That’s how dangerous it is. There’s 30,000 unexploded munitions. It is buildings that could tip over at any moment. There’s no utilities.”

Picking up on the theme later in the day, Mr. Trump said it was not realistic to have Palestinians return to Gaza. “They have no alternative right now” but to leave, Mr. Trump told reporters before Mr. Netanyahu’s arrival.

“I mean, they’re there because they have no alternative,” he said. “What do they have? It is a big pile of rubble right now.” He added: “I don’t know how they could want to stay. It’s a demolition site. It’s a pure demolition site.”

Mr. Trump suggested the resettlement of Palestinians would be akin to the New York real estate projects he built his career on.. “If we could find the right piece of land, or numerous pieces of land, and build them some really nice places with plenty of money in the area, that’s for sure,” he said. “I think that would be a lot better than going back to Gaza.”

Mr. Trump’s summit with Mr. Netanyahu was his first in-person meeting with another world leader since returning to power two weeks ago. The two were expected to discuss negotiations for the second phase of the fragile cease-fire with Hamas, Iran’s efforts to build a nuclear weapon, new arms shipments and hopes for a deal to normalize relations with Saudi Arabia.

The meeting, part of a multiday visit to Washington by Mr. Netanyahu, was meant to demonstrate the close ties between the two leaders. The Israeli prime minister made a point of flattering Mr. Trump, giving him credit for the cease-fire deal brokered last month without mentioning Mr. Biden.

“I think President Trump added great force and powerful leadership to this effort,” Mr. Netanyahu said. He alluded to friction with Mr. Biden, saying that it was important that Israel’s enemies not perceive any differences between his country and the United States. “Occasionally in the last few years, to put it mildly, they saw daylight,” he said.

Mr. Trump and Mr. Netanyahu forged a close partnership during the president’s first term but fell out toward its end over a number of issues, including the Israeli leader’s willingness to congratulate Mr. Biden on his victory in the 2020 election, which Mr. Trump insists he won. Mr. Trump and Mr. Netanyahu have since sought to smooth over their rift.

But Mr. Netanyahu went into his meeting at odds with Mr. Trump on several important issues, according to analysts, likely including how to confront Iran’s nuclear ambitions and how quickly to end the war in Gaza.

The Trump administration has made clear that it wants to see all of the hostages held by Hamas returned and then move on to a grand bargain involving Saudi Arabia that formalizes relations with Israel. All of that hinges on a lasting end to fighting in the Palestinian seaside enclave.

Advisers to Mr. Trump told reporters on Tuesday morning that the president and Mr. Netanyahu were united behind the idea that Hamas should not be allowed to remain in power.

With Mr. Netanyahu’s right-wing government in jeopardy if the war ends with Hamas still in control in Gaza, and with no other plan for the area in place, analysts expect the Israeli prime minister to try to delay moving to the next stage of the deal, which calls for a permanent cease-fire.

“Netanyahu made this salami deal,” said Shira Efron, the senior director of policy research at the Israel Policy Forum, a New York-based research group, referring to the three-phased agreement with Hamas. “He’s always playing for time and kicking the can down the road — something he is an expert in. Trump wants to cut to the chase and end the war.”

Mr. Netanyahu is also in a vulnerable position internationally, with an arrest warrant issued by the International Criminal Court accusing him of war crimes during the war with Hamas.

Adding to the anxiety in the region were reports on Monday that U.S. intelligence officials believe Iran is seeking to build a cruder atomic weapon that could be developed quickly if the leadership in Tehran decided to do so.

It remains unclear whether that decision has been made, and Iran’s new president has indicated that he would like to begin a negotiation with Mr. Trump’s administration even as the country’s nuclear scientists push ahead with their efforts.

Mr. Trump on Tuesday signed an order directing a return to the policy of “maximum pressure” on Iran through sanctions, but avoided hostile language and refused to say whether he would support an Israeli strike on Iranian nuclear facilities, an indication of his interest in reaching an agreement. “This is one I’m torn about,” he said as he signed the order. “Hopefully, we’re not going to have to use it very much. We will see whether we can arrange, work out a deal with Iran.”

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


The election already happened. We all know that most voters only see what's right in front of them, and to those people, the administration's handling of the situation and their response to pleas for action (or any representation at all) from was unconscionable. It is what it is, and on that note they're not wrong. Obviously, the politically savvy understand that Trump would likely be worse for Gaza, but again, most voters aren't looking ahead, they're just reacting to what's right in front of their faces.

And to them I say:
83e08b98986dd62238b3cad5a26f7b81.jpg
This shit was obvious, I’m fine with my disgust at the group that did everything in their power to tank the one candidate that could realistically improve their situation.
  • Hook 'Em 4
  • Like 1
  • Fuck Around and Find Out 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, let me see if I understand this, the long play to get rid of birthright citizenship is because of that remains the law then anyone born in Gaza after is becomes part of the US would then be citizens. 

His moves are 5-D chess (or maybe wild card only uno)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:


And to them I say:
83e08b98986dd62238b3cad5a26f7b81.jpg
This shit was obvious, I’m fine with my disgust at the group that did everything in their power to tank the one candidate that could realistically improve their situation.

72524749007-protest-020824-01-mw.jpg?wid

 

I got some... ocean front property in Ari....Gaza

  • Fuck Around and Find Out 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Chuckie Finster said:


And to them I say:
83e08b98986dd62238b3cad5a26f7b81.jpg
This shit was obvious, I’m fine with my disgust at th group that did everything in their power to tank the one candidate that could realistically improve their situation.

Hey thanks, man, I really appreciate your flippant attitude. Members of my extended family are still in immediate, mortal danger in that part of the world, you know. I do appreciate that you are okay with pointing fingers [at the wrong targets] and going "nyah nyah boo boo" while Trump is maybe kick-starting the next Holocaust because you're mad at a group of voters that realistically could not and did not affect the outcome of the election. They declined to vote for the campaign that literally told them "fuck off, we don't need your votes" in no uncertain terms. Something which you conveniently refuse to address.

Of course I, and many like me, held my nose and voted for her anyway, but I'm a high information voter. Most people aren't, and that's just the factbut I appreciate you getting your petty dunks in on top of the potential corpses of people I care about.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that their position is an emotional, ultimately irrational one (similar to your prolific and mean-spirited accusations of antisemitism against posters who were critical of Israel's response post-October 7th). Do you really expect people who are deliberately, and quite publicly, humiliated and alienated by the Democratic Party and the Harris campaign in the way that they were to just shrug their shoulders and pull the lever anyway?

That would be an insane and genuinely unreasonable ask of any marginalized group, but because it's this specific topic and the group in question are comprised of mostly scary brown people, it's okay to condemn them because it's no skin off your nose, right?

 

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:


No. Fuck them. They either did this in abject and inexcusable stupidity despite all the plain and obvious warnings, or they did this to inflict pain on others. Either way, they pulled the cord on the suicide vest, harming both them and those around them.
I excuse nobody, and I forgive no one. In fact, excusing and forgiving such bullshit is exactly how we got here. Enough.
When their families are the few Palestinians remaining in Gaza…because they are providing slave labor to build Trump tower, I’ll laugh at them. They did this.

 

Hey man, thanks for chiming in and slipping back into the thinly veiled racism. I figured you got over that, but I guess we're back to being like "hey lol them ayrabs and their suicide vests, right?" *nudge nudge*

God forbid we look have a nuanced take when we can just spew diarrhea instead.

I mean, come on, I'm not happy about a bunch of Jill Stein votes from that camp, either, but ultimately it didn't affect the outcome of the election. It didn't. We know this. Not only that, but there's plenty of data that suggests a better response from the Biden administration and like, anything at all from the Harris campaign other than just going along with said administration would likely have led to a much better outcome overall.

It's just sad that we just can't have a conversation about how badly the Ds fucked this up, including the Harris campaign, we just have to shit on the people they thumbed their noses at and told to fuck off instead.

  • Fuck You 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 
Hey man, thanks for chiming in and slipping back into the thinly veiled racism. I figured you got over that, but I guess we're back to being like "hey lol them ayrabs and their suicide vests, right?" *nudge nudge*
God forbid we look have a nuanced take when we can just spew diarrhea instead.
I mean, come on, I'm not happy about a bunch of Jill Stein votes from that camp, either, but ultimately it didn't affect the outcome of the election. It didn't. We know this. Not only that, but there's plenty of data that suggests a better response from the Biden administration and like, anything at all from the Harris campaign other than just going along with said administration would likely have led to a much better outcome overall.
It's just sad that we just can't have a conversation about how badly the Ds fucked this up, including the Harris campaign, we just have to shit on the people they thumbed their noses at and told to fuck off instead.

Ahh yes…the Dems MADE THEM DO THIS.
Fuck that bullshit. And while their demographic wasn’t alone in their utter, abject idiocy (Hispanics - you know, MY people - get plenty of blame too), “Other people were stupid” doesn’t absolve them.
Again, there were only two reasons to vote the way they did. Both are bad. Fuck em. Just like I say fuck em about the Hispanics who voted for Trump thinkin he didn’t mean THEM when he talked about all those dirty browns. The suicide metaphor isn’t racist, it’s accurate. That’s what they did. If you decide “I’ll hurt everyone around me to make my point,” that’s exactly what you did - pulled the cord on the bomb vest.
Y’all got what you asked for. Now eat the shit sandwich you ordered for ALL of us. I have to eat it, you do too.
  • Hook 'Em 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Brisketexan said:


Ahh yes…the Dems MADE THEM DO THIS.
Fuck that bullshit. And while their demographic wasn’t alone in their utter, abject idiocy (Hispanics - you know, MY people) get plenty of blame too. “Other people were stupid” doesn’t absolve them.
Again, there were only two reasons to vote the way they did. Both are bad. Fuck em. Just like I say fuck em about the Hispanics who voted for Trump thinkin he didn’t mean THEM when he talked about all those dirty browns. The suicide metaphor isn’t racist, it’s accurate. That’s what they did. If you decide “I’ll hurt everyone around me to make my point,” that’s exactly what you did - pulled the cord on the bomb vest.
Y’all got what you asked for. Now eat the shit sandwich you ordered for ALL of us. I have to eat it, you do too.

What do you mean, y'all? I voted for Harris, mother fucker, you know I did. I certainly didn't encourage anyone else not to, either. I knew the stakes. Eat my fucking ass, I didn't order a shit sandwich for anyone. But I appreciate the boldness of the lie, I guess.

I also didn't say the Dems made them do this. I said they publicly humiliated them, deliberately alienated them and told them "fuck off, we don't need your votes". These are just facts, they happened, and the subsequent response of "Well, we're not going to vote for you I guess" is an understandable one, even if it's ultimately stupid and counterproductive, and meaningless.

Again, the complete inability of some people to blame the Biden admin and Harris campaign for their own, demonstrable mistakes is just staggering to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think plenty of people are blaming the Democratic party for fucking around and losing the election, but that doesn't absolve the idiots who voted for Trump. If my dumbass parents get screwed by cuts to Medicare or social security, or find their retirement account isn't enough to float them along thanks to Musk upending our financial institutions... Well, they made their bed. They can lie in it. I have no empathy.

  • Hook 'Em 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Blame the voters for being uninformed buyers or blame the party for having a shitty product?

We can do both. Both are at fault. Sadly, because everyone has terminal serf brain, no one seems interested in doing FAFO for the party, just the people.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


Ahh yes…the Dems MADE THEM DO THIS.
Fuck that bullshit. And while their demographic wasn’t alone in their utter, abject idiocy (Hispanics - you know, MY people - get plenty of blame too), “Other people were stupid” doesn’t absolve them.
Again, there were only two reasons to vote the way they did. Both are bad. Fuck em. Just like I say fuck em about the Hispanics who voted for Trump thinkin he didn’t mean THEM when he talked about all those dirty browns. The suicide metaphor isn’t racist, it’s accurate. That’s what they did. If you decide “I’ll hurt everyone around me to make my point,” that’s exactly what you did - pulled the cord on the bomb vest.
Y’all got what you asked for. Now eat the shit sandwich you ordered for ALL of us. I have to eat it, you do too.

The line for me on Palestinians is very much akin to the situation of Hispanic Latinos. I'll mock the tears of the Palestinian Americans and Mexican Americans who sat out or voted for Trump, but I will not make fun of the actual migrants getting deported or Gazans who will get kicked out (except for those who confoundingly supported Trump's election from the sidelines).

  • Hook 'Em 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think plenty of people are blaming the Democratic party for fucking around and losing the election, but that doesn't absolve the idiots who voted for Trump. If my dumbass parents get screwed by cuts to Medicare or social security, or find their retirement account isn't enough to float them along thanks to Musk upending our financial institutions... Well, they made their bed. They can lie in it. I have no empathy.

This.
Fantana so desperately wants to point the finger at “THE DEMS MADE THEM DO IT” so as to absolve them.
Fantana, you still don’t get where I’m coming from: I hate ALL of them. The breathtakingly stupid/vindictive Arab voters, the gullible machismo-ridden Hispanics, the incompetent dem party, the “conservative” voters who let their hatred of others override the obvious deranged insanity of their candidate…and I can go on.
But there is ZERO doubt that the American Arab block either withheld their vote from Harris or purposefully voted for Trump out of stupidity/vindictiveness, helping Trump win. They own everything they get. Including what looks to be the culmination of a campaign of ethnic cleansing that will be the most successful in recent history, at the hands of the guy they helped put into power.
Fuck em. Pain and suffering is what all these assholes voted for, so let’s get on with it. No bitching, eat up.
  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Fuck Around and Find Out 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

“I don’t think people should be going back to Gaza,” Mr. Trump said. “I heard that Gaza has been very unlucky for them. They live like hell. They live like they’re living in hell. Gaza is not a place for people to be living, and the only reason they want to go back, and I believe this strongly, is because they have no alternative.”

But I'm going to wade right in and make it a resort like the world has never seen!  I'm lucky that way.  At least 4 casinos!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

We can do both. Both are at fault. Sadly, because everyone has terminal serf brain, no one seems interested in doing FAFO for the party, just the people.

I appreciate the empathy you have, I really do. 

But the people have to FAFO. Forgiving or excusing their misjudgment will end up just encouraging them to fuck up again in the future. Hard lessons need to be learned. 

 

  • Hook 'Em 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Hank Kingsley said:

I appreciate the empathy you have, I really do. 

But the people have to FAFO. Forgiving or excusing their misjudgment will end up just encouraging them to fuck up again in the future. Hard lessons need to be learned.

That's fine, but that same sentiment is literally never extended to the party on this specific topic. They fucked up just as badly as the voters they alienated.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is not what I'm doing at all dude lol come on

Then why is it your immediate go-to when the topic here is Israel and the fuckery happening there at the hands of the guy the Arab-American block helped elect?
“I won’t vote for Kamala because they won’t do what the Palestinians demand…thus ensuring the election of someone who will end all Palestinian presence in the levant once and for all.”
I’m sorry. That’s perhaps the most idiotic political move in human history. Truly, it goes on the Mount Rushmore of “dumbest fucking moves ever.”
The majority of that voting block CHOSE THIS OUTCOME. So FUCK EM. I will say “fuck em” to each and every person/group that helped serve up the giant shit sandwich that humanity now has to eat.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's that signature hyperbole again. Nobody was telling them to go fuck themselves, except sorta the ones interrupting Harris rallies and accuing her of genocide, those people can definitely go fuck themselves. Biden and Harris both routinely criticized Netanyahu and overreach by Israel. The one thing they couldn't do was cut off all aid to Israel, the fact that the "protest" voters refused to acknowledge that it constitutes political suicide in the US is just astounding. Saying over and over again that it would have gained them votes and not resulted in a Reagan style landslide just shows the idiocy of that refrain. The US voters who sat out because of this issue never cared about Gazan lives, it was obvious as could be that Harris would continue doing the most possible for the region and would treat Netanyahu like criminal he is, while trump would embrace him, like he did today. It was always about their own ego and self rightousness. Gazans will suffer enormously more because of their protest choice. And lol at "victory lap" accusations. Surely no one here would have taken a "Joe Brandon" shot at the adninistration after the election. There is no joy whatsoever in acknowledging the most obvious "told you so" of all fucking time. 

Edited by 'stache
  • Hook 'Em 4
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:


Then why is it your immediate go-to when the topic here is Israel and the fuckery happening there at the hands of the guy the Arab-American block helped elect?
“I won’t vote for Kamala because they won’t do what the Palestinians demand…thus ensuring the election of someone who will end all Palestinian presence in the levant once and for all.”
I’m sorry. That’s perhaps the most idiotic political move in human history. Truly, it goes on the Mount Rushmore of “dumbest fucking moves ever.”
The majority of that voting block CHOSE THIS OUTCOME. So FUCK EM. I will say “fuck em” to each and every person/group that helped serve up the giant shit sandwich that humanity now has to eat.

I'm not saying it wasn't stupid, just that it was understandable given the circumstances. And the fact that you tried to lump me, a pro-Palestinian Harris voter, in with them as if I'm responsible for this, kind of betrays your irrationality here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, 'stache said:

There's that signature hyperbole again. Nobody was telling them to go fuck themselves, except sorta the ones interrupting Harris rallies and accuing her of genocide. Those people can definitely go fuck themselves. Biden and Harris both routinely criticized Netanyahu and overreach by Israel. The one thing they couldn't do was cut off all aid to Israel, the fact that the "protest" voters refused to acknowledge that it constitutes political suicide in the US is just astounding. Saying over and over again that it would have gained them votes and not resulted in a Reagan style landslide just shows the idiocy of that refrain. The US voters who sat out because of this issue never cared about Gazan lives, it was obvious as could be that Harris would continue to try and do good for the region and ensuring Netanyahu was treated as the criminal he is, while trump would embrace him, like he did today. It was always about their own ego and self rightousness. Gazans will suffer enormously more because of their protest choice. And lol at "victory lap" accusations. Surely no one here would have taken a "Joe Brandon" shot at the adninistration after the election. There is no joy whatsoever in acknowledging the most obvious "told you so" of all fucking time. 

My sole issue here is the complete inability to hold the Dems and the Harris campaign accountable for the demonstrable mistakes they made with regard to this specific topic. They fucked this up just as much as the people that felt disaffected by them. No one wants to talk about that, though, we'd rather just shit on the dumb brown people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

What do you mean, y'all? I voted for Harris, mother fucker, you know I did. I certainly didn't encourage anyone else not to, either. I knew the stakes. Eat my fucking ass, I didn't order a shit sandwich for anyone. But I appreciate the boldness of the lie, I guess.

I also didn't say the Dems made them do this. I said they publicly humiliated them, deliberately alienated them and told them "fuck off, we don't need your votes". These are just facts, they happened, and the subsequent response of "Well, we're not going to vote for you I guess" is an understandable one, even if it's ultimately stupid and counterproductive, and meaningless.

Again, the complete inability of some people to blame the Biden admin and Harris campaign for their own, demonstrable mistakes is just staggering to me.

You're out of your fucking mind.  Fuck off.  What a classic take that does nothing but place blame on the wrong people.  Assume I gave you neg rep, even though I won't.  Holy shit.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, the notion that applying real pressure to Israel was political suicide is a ludicrous lie. There is empirical data available that indicates that a significant percentage of the millions of people that previously voted for Biden and did not vote in the 2024 election, sat home because of the administration's response to the situation in Gaza.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

My sole issue here is the complete inability to hold the Dems and the Harris campaign accountable for the demonstrable mistakes they made with regard to this specific topic. They fucked this up just as much as the people that felt disaffected by them. No one wants to talk about that, though, we'd rather just shit on the dumb brown people.

What in your mind should she have done to please the Palestinian Americans?  Specifically.  Condemn Israel completely?  Promise to cut all aid?  
 

Had she done that would she have won?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

My sole issue here is the complete inability to hold the Dems and the Harris campaign accountable for the demonstrable mistakes they made with regard to this specific topic. They fucked this up just as much as the people that felt disaffected by them. No one wants to talk about that, though, we'd rather just shit on the dumb brown people.

You're just flat out wrong to keep referring to mistakes made, I've said my position on that many times, and I know you'll never be convinced. And let's be clear, it's not just "brown" people that participated, my ire is far more intense for the primarily white college liberals who participated in the "protest" votes because of their own self righteous egos. They're the ones I say didn't give a single shit about the lives of Gazan people, becasue they didn't, it was about drawing attention to themselves. I acknowledge that this one issue is likely not what cost Harris the election, the electorate in this country are beyond saving on dozens of other issues, but liberals accusing Biden and Harris of genocide, white liberals especially, can literally go fuck themselves. What happened today was the most obvious thing ever.

Edited by 'stache
  • Hook 'Em 3
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Brian Fantana said:

It's not. I blame both the party and the people that protest voted. Literally. I have said this like a dozen times at this point.

Your posts emphatically do no such thing. You blame the Harris campaign for not committing to something that would ended any chance of winning. The voters you're talking about had completely unrealistic and self defeating expectations. That's all the happened. 

  • Hook 'Em 2
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Dahobbs said:

You blame the Harris campaign for not committing to something that would ended any chance of winning.

Show your work.

And going to the extreme of "completely cutting off and condemning Israel" as your only alternative to what the Biden admin did is really disingenuous.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, chainsaw said:

There's no point engaging with liberals on this.

I'm a liberal.  I think @Brian Fantana is out of his fucking mind.

Should there be an attempt to take over the Gaza Strip, the blame would rest ENTIRELY on Donald Trump.  It is not the fault of Democrats that the opposition attempts something they would never even consider.

Politically, I would consider any American who was eligible to vote for Harris but failed to do so as "complicit", but hardly responsible for the actions of someone else.

  • Hook 'Em 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m not even than angry at the Arab-Americans who quietly voted for Stein (any Trump voter can EABOD though). I can get that, going in the booth and being confronted with conscience. I’m furious at the activist and protesting class that spent the summer and fall in a self-fellating spree of fart-sniffing indulgence, threats and disorder despite knowing full well who benefited from those images and debates. Wow, you’re telling me that America ran to the right after months of seeing masked assholes screaming in the streets and blocking traffic? Wow, who is could have guessed. How cool it was that you got your air time to whine and show rhe DNC wasn’t a party! 
 

A hearty fuck you to them, most of whom are not directly impacted at all by this either way.  

  • Hook 'Em 5
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

I also didn't say the Dems made them do this. I said they publicly humiliated them, deliberately alienated them and told them "fuck off, we don't need your votes". These are just facts, they happened, and the subsequent response of "Well, we're not going to vote for you I guess" is an understandable one, even if it's ultimately stupid and counterproductive, and meaningless.

Those who voted for Trump or not at all still made their choice.  And, their is zero chance that President Harris would be licking her chops at the prospect of building Harris Tower in Gaza.

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Should there be an attempt to take over the Gaza Strip, the blame would rest ENTIRELY on Donald Trump.  It is not the fault of Democrats that the opposition attempts something they would never even consider.

Do you think I'm saying that Democrats are to blame for what Trump does or is going to do? I'm not saying that at all. I'm simply saying their handling of the Gaza situation disaffected many previously solid D voters. This is backed up by empirical data. It is not an emotional take. At some point, they have to take some responsibility for failing to reach said voters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Show your work.

And going to the extreme of "completely cutting off and condemning Israel" as your only alternative to what the Biden admin did is really disingenuous.

You show me yours. I can link to article after article that would call that political suicide. I'm also not entirely sure what you were asking Biden to do. Seemed to me he did quite a bit. But backing out of long term military procurement contracts with the critical ally in the region that has significant political power here would be fucking stupid for many, many reasons. We might as well concede all our influence in the region to Russia and China. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Do you think I'm saying that Democrats are to blame for what Trump does or is going to do? I'm not saying that at all. I'm simply saying their handling of the Gaza situation disaffected many previously solid D voters. This is backed up by empirical data. It is not an emotional take. At some point, they have to take some responsibility for failing to reach said voters.

Yes. And we are saying those voters are stupid. And we are laughing at those voters for being stupid. You can't stop us. Stop trying. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

the fault of Democrats

I blame the Democrats for

  • lying about Biden's fitness to run for re-election
  • believing they could get away with the farce
  • not having a plan for when the farce was revealed in a historically brutal debate performance
  • replacing Biden too late in the cycle
  • sandbagging the Harris campaign's better instincts
  • protecting Biden from valid criticism of his weakness vs. Netanyahu, which allowed him to continue exhibiting weakness and playing into one of Trump's strongest themes
  • insisting that Harris keep Biden's worst campaign strategists, who thought voters wanted more Liz Cheney than Bernie Sanders
  • putting up basically no resistance to Trump's cabinet picks
  • having no competing narrative on how immigration is actually great
  • across-the-board incompetency

Notice how when Biden was in office he received zero cooperation from any republicans, including the ones in swing districts? Voters do not want performative bipartisanship. They don't care about decorum or the optics of people getting along. They want results. They want improved material conditions. And I bet when it comes to Israel most Americans are either indifferent to or unsupportive of what Netanyahu wants. We should be playing hardball with him, and Biden's failure to do so was a colossal mistake.

  • Hook 'Em 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, chainsaw said:

And I bet when it comes to Israel most Americans are either indifferent to or unsupportive of what Netanyahu wants. We should be playing hardball with him, and Biden's failure to do so was a colossal mistake.

So Trump gets a free pass for getting in bed with Bibi?  Is that where we are?  It's all Biden's fault?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

So Trump gets a free pass for getting in bed with Bibi?  Is that where we are?  It's all Biden's fault?

I blame Trump for his decisions, and I blame the Democrats for allowing him to regain power.

  • Hook 'Em 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites



×
×
  • Create New...