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Posted
6 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

You’re unhinged. First off, please as you say “show your work” here  Biden/Harris LITERALLY told Palestinians to “fuck off, we don’t need your votes.” You seem to big on “empirical evidence” in your recent posts. So show your work. I’ll accept a link or video with the quote of Biden/harris literally telling them to “fuck off” and they don’t need the  Arab votes. 

additionally, you don’t get to take credit for being a high information Harris voter while absolving most of the Arab population for being normal lower information voters. It sounds like you should have been doing more to educate, and I’ll paraphrase here, your family/people. Every post you made last year on here bitching and moaning about Biden/Harris could have been an opportunity to phone bank, door knock, or email and reach out to communities to explain to them what would happen if Trump regained power. 

 

Please support your “facts” with links and data. Note your subjective interpretation of a situation is neither facts nor data. For example if a woman refuses to go on a date with you, it is not a fact that she is a “raging lesbian who hates dick.”

there’s no shortage or people willing to blame Biden/harris for mistakes. But I see a shortage of anyone willing to do the same to people who voted for their own genocide in the face of, we won’t call it facts, we’ll call it “overwhelming evidence.”

 

Voting in a manner that will bring genocide upon the very people you want to help is never, under any circumstances, understandable. 

No one is arguing the ways Biden/harris fucked up. Obviously they did, as they lost. But you keep screaming how you have data that they fucked up on Palestine, this is their fault, but in your next breath you say there is empirical and factual evidence that the Arab population didn’t cost them the election. You can’t have it both ways. 

Again, please show your empirical data. And not just the number of people that stayed home. But the number of people that stayed home, the reason they cited staying home as Israel and Palestine, and that number and the margin of victory for Trump. Go ahead, I’ll wait. 
 

Because, and I’ll veer into chainsaw’s stupidity next, the overwhelming reason I’ve seen cited before and after the election, consistently, was the border and cost of goods. 

Acknowledging your post, will respond later, busy

Posted

so the reality is there are 5.5m people without a home

they won't fit in the gaza strip

this is another topic to flood the zone with our reps

turnip wants to reduce the deficit and slash and burn DC

how much would this fantasy cost?  1 trillion?  2 trillion?

the 2-state solution was happening until extremists on both sides fucked it up (..... ...... ......)

PLEASE READ THIS:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords

the idiot dems should have launched a counterattack this morning with some flavor of the above

but this one is tailor made for false-flag pretend-maga outrage calls to all reps at all levels

Posted

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gw89x8x11o

The Palestinian president has said he strongly rejects President Donald Trump's proposal for the US to take over Gaza and permanently resettle the 2.1 million Palestinians living there.

"We will not allow the rights of our people... to be infringed on," Mahmoud Abbas stressed, warning that Gaza was "an integral part of the State of Palestine" and forced displacement would be a serious violation of international law.

Hamas, whose 15-month war with Israel has caused widespread devastation, said Trump's plan would "put oil on the fire" in the region.

Arab states also rejected the idea, with Saudi Arabia reiterating it would not normalise ties with Israel without the establishment of a Palestinian state.

Neighbouring Egypt, who had rejected Trump's suggestion last month that it and Jordan take in residents of Gaza, stressed the need for reconstruction "without moving the Palestinians".

It comes two weeks after the start of a fragile ceasefire in Gaza, during which Hamas has released some Israeli hostages it is holding in exchange for Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails.

The Israeli military launched a campaign to destroy Hamas in response to an unprecedented cross-border attack on 7 October 2023, in which about 1,200 people were killed and 251 were taken hostage.

More than 47,540 people have been killed and 111,600 injured in Gaza since then, according to the territory's Hamas-run health ministry.

Most of Gaza's population has also been displaced multiple times, almost 70% of buildings are estimated to be damaged or destroyed, the healthcare, water, sanitation and hygiene systems have collapsed, and there are shortages of food, fuel, medicine and shelter.

President Trump's first major remarks on Middle East policy shattered decades of US thinking on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

He presented them at the White House on Tuesday night alongside visiting Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

"The US will take over the Gaza Strip, and we will do a job with it too," he said. "We'll own it and be responsible for dismantling all of the dangerous unexploded bombs and other weapons on the site, level the site, and get rid of the destroyed buildings."

Trump estimated that about 1.8 million Palestinians living in Gaza would have to be relocated to achieve his vision of creating "the Riviera of the Middle East", and said they would be housed in Jordan, Egypt and other countries.

When asked whether the refugees would eventually be allowed to return, he said that "the world's people" would live in Gaza, before adding "also Palestinians".

Trump also brushed aside previous objections from Jordan and Egypt's leaders to taking in refugees, insisting that they would eventually "open their hearts and will give us the kind of land that we need to get this done".

Netanyahu said Trump's proposal could "change history" and was "worth paying attention to", adding: "This is the kind of thinking that will reshape the Middle East and bring peace."

A unnamed senior Israeli official was also quoted as saying that Trump's ideas surpassed all his "expectations and dreams".

However, the Palestinian leadership condemned the plan in a statement issued on Wednesday.

"These calls represent a serious violation of international law," President Abbas said, adding that "peace and stability will not be achieved in the region without the establishment of a Palestinian state".

Abbas leads Hamas rivals Fatah and governs parts of the Israeli-occupied West Bank.

He declared that Palestinians would not "give up their land, rights, and sacred sites" and that "the Gaza Strip is an integral part of the land of the State of Palestine, along with the West Bank and East Jerusalem".

Hamas - which is proscribed as a terrorist organisation by Israel, the US, the UK and other countries - said in a statement that Trump was "aiming for the United States to occupy the Gaza Strip".

It warned that his proposal was "aggressive to our people and cause, won't serve stability in the region and will only put oil on the fire".

Palestinians in Gaza also said the plan was completely out of the question.

"We have endured nearly a year and a half of bombings and destruction, yet we remain in Gaza," one man told BBC Arabic.

"We would rather die in Gaza than leave it. We will stay here until we rebuild it. Trump can do as he pleases, but we firmly reject his decisions."

Under international law, attempts to forcibly transfer populations are strictly prohibited.

Palestinians also fear a repeat of the "Nakba", or "catastrophe", when hundreds of thousands fled or were driven from their homes before and during the war that followed the creation of the State of Israel in 1948.

Many of those refugees ended up in Gaza, where they and their descendants make up three quarters of the population. Another 900,000 registered refugees live in the West Bank, which Israel occupied in the 1967 Middle East war along with Gaza, while 3.4 million others live in Jordan, Syria and Lebanon, according to the UN.

Israel unilaterally withdrew its troops and settlers from Gaza in 2005, though it retained control of its shared border, airspace and shoreline, giving it effective control of the movement of people and goods. The UN still regards Gaza as Israeli-occupied territory because of the level of control Israel has.

Saudi Arabia's foreign ministry said the kingdom "unequivocally rejected" Trump's proposal for post-war Gaza and reiterated that it would continue its efforts to establish an independent Palestinian state and "not establish diplomatic relations with Israel without that".

"Achieving lasting and just peace is impossible without the Palestinian people obtaining their legitimate rights," it added.

Following talks in Cairo, Egyptian Foreign Minister Badr Abdelatty said he had agreed with Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Mohammed Mustafa on "the importance of moving forward with early recovery projects... without the Palestinians leaving the Gaza Strip, especially with their commitment to their land and refusal to leave it".

Turkish Foreign Minister Hakan Fidan said the relocation of Palestinians from Gaza in any form was "unacceptable", adding: "It is absurd to even consider it."

Western governments also expressed alarm about any forced displacement.

France's foreign ministry said it would "constitute a serious violation of international law, an attack on the legitimate aspirations of the Palestinians, but also a major obstacle to the two-state solution and a major destabilising factor for our close partners Egypt and Jordan, as well as for the entire region".

UK Foreign Secretary David Lammy said: "We've always been clear in our belief that we must seek two states. We must see Palestinians able to live and prosper in their homelands, in Gaza, in the West Bank."

Posted
Just now, SydneyCarton said:

You mean everyone except about 50% of Americans, right?

You know I never wanted to make anybody feel bad or hate America or anything when I bring up stuff like slavery and the Trail of Tears and shit. I just want people to stop doing shit like that. If everybody agrees to be nice moving forward we can memory hole all that shit because it would no longer be relevant to anything.

But I was referring to statements by the Israeli officials creaming over themselves at the dream of ethnic cleansing. As if doing that wouldn't still leave them surrounded by hostile states.

  • Like 1
Posted
5 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

In a shocking development, almost everybody agrees that ethnic cleansing is evil and bad.

Almost indeed. 4 out of 5 heads of states agree, ethnic cleansing is wrong.

Guess we’re not chewing Trident gum anymore.

  • Like 1
Posted
8 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

You know I never wanted to make anybody feel bad or hate America or anything when I bring up stuff like slavery and the Trail of Tears and shit. I just want people to stop doing shit like that. If everybody agrees to be nice moving forward we can memory hole all that shit because it would no longer be relevant to anything.

But I was referring to statements by the Israeli officials creaming over themselves at the dream of ethnic cleansing. As if doing that wouldn't still leave them surrounded by hostile states.

Memory holing shit is a big reason on how America got to where we are today, so no thank you. And when we didn't memory hole it, we get the resentment that manifests in DEI rage, brown people rage, all of it. 

Lots of folks in America creaming themselves over ethic cleansing too. 

  • Rage+1 1
Posted

Republicans conflicted on Trump’s pitch to ‘own’ Gaza: ‘I thought we voted for America First’'

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/05/trump-gaza-republican-reaction

Trump’s head-spinning pronouncement appeared to catch many Republican politicians off guard, including the North Carolina senator Thom Tillis.

“There’s probably a couple of kinks in that Slinky, but I’ll have to look at the statement,” he said.

“Obviously it’s not going to happen. I don’t know under what circumstance it would make sense, even for Israel. If Israel is asking for the US to come in and provide some assistance to ensure that Hamas can never do again what they did, I’m in. But us taking over seems like a bit of a stretch.”

Posted
3 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

If Israel is asking for the US to come in and provide some assistance to ensure that Hamas can never do again what they did, I’m in. But us taking over seems like a bit of a stretch.”

In what sense Senator? Are you saying you want to send American troops to Gaza to help Israel?

Posted
6 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

"Obviously it’s not going to happen".

Well the current president stood up there with Bibi yesterday and fucking announced it was happening. I guess it's not going to happen like Project 2025 wasn't going to happen.

  • Fuck Around and Find Out 1
Posted
3 minutes ago, Red Five said:

Well the current president stood up there with Bibi yesterday and fucking announced it was happening. I guess it's not going to happen like Project 2025 wasn't going to happen.

Yeah well I believe it isn't going to happen when Thom Tillis actually votes for legislation to block it. Or votes against legislation to fund it.

Which he won't.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted
15 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

It's just sad that we just can't have a conversation about how badly the Ds fucked this up, including the Harris campaign, we just have to shit on the people they thumbed their noses at and told to fuck off instead.

This seems to be grist for the last few pages about an American GЯP President pronouncing the site of a massive slaughter the future home of a USA owned Mediterannean paradise development once we get those pesky, bombed-out natives out of the way.

Totally rational response and focus of analysis. 

Posted
1 hour ago, Hagbard Celine said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gw89x8x11o

The Palestinian president has said he strongly rejects President Donald Trump's proposal for the US to take over Gaza and permanently resettle the 2.1 million Palestinians living there.

"We will not allow the rights of our people... to be infringed on," Mahmoud Abbas stressed, warning that Gaza was "an integral part of the State of Palestine" and forced displacement would be a serious violation of international law.

Hamas, whose 15-month war with Israel has caused widespread devastation, said Trump's plan would "put oil on the fire" in the region.

Arab states also rejected the idea, with Saudi Arabia reiterating it would not normalise ties with Israel without the establishment of a Palestinian state.

Neighbouring Egypt, who had rejected Trump's suggestion last month that it and Jordan take in residents of Gaza, stressed the need for reconstruction "without moving the Palestinians".

It comes two weeks after the start of a fragile ceasefire in Gaza, during which Hamas has released some Israeli hostages it is holding in exchange for Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails.

The Israeli military launched a campaign to destroy Hamas in response to an unprecedented cross-border attack on 7 October 2023, in which about 1,200 people were killed and 251 were taken hostage.

More than 47,540 people have been killed and 111,600 injured in Gaza since then, according to the territory's Hamas-run health ministry.

Most of Gaza's population has also been displaced multiple times, almost 70% of buildings are estimated to be damaged or destroyed, the healthcare, water, sanitation and hygiene systems have collapsed, and there are shortages of food, fuel, medicine and shelter.

President Trump's first major remarks on Middle East policy shattered decades of US thinking on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

He presented them at the White House on Tuesday night alongside visiting Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

"The US will take over the Gaza Strip, and we will do a job with it too," he said. "We'll own it and be responsible for dismantling all of the dangerous unexploded bombs and other weapons on the site, level the site, and get rid of the destroyed buildings."

Trump estimated that about 1.8 million Palestinians living in Gaza would have to be relocated to achieve his vision of creating "the Riviera of the Middle East", and said they would be housed in Jordan, Egypt and other countries.

When asked whether the refugees would eventually be allowed to return, he said that "the world's people" would live in Gaza, before adding "also Palestinians".

Trump also brushed aside previous objections from Jordan and Egypt's leaders to taking in refugees, insisting that they would eventually "open their hearts and will give us the kind of land that we need to get this done".

Netanyahu said Trump's proposal could "change history" and was "worth paying attention to", adding: "This is the kind of thinking that will reshape the Middle East and bring peace."

A unnamed senior Israeli official was also quoted as saying that Trump's ideas surpassed all his "expectations and dreams".

However, the Palestinian leadership condemned the plan in a statement issued on Wednesday.

"These calls represent a serious violation of international law," President Abbas said, adding that "peace and stability will not be achieved in the region without the establishment of a Palestinian state".

Abbas leads Hamas rivals Fatah and governs parts of the Israeli-occupied West Bank.

He declared that Palestinians would not "give up their land, rights, and sacred sites" and that "the Gaza Strip is an integral part of the land of the State of Palestine, along with the West Bank and East Jerusalem".

Hamas - which is proscribed as a terrorist organisation by Israel, the US, the UK and other countries - said in a statement that Trump was "aiming for the United States to occupy the Gaza Strip".

It warned that his proposal was "aggressive to our people and cause, won't serve stability in the region and will only put oil on the fire".

Palestinians in Gaza also said the plan was completely out of the question.

"We have endured nearly a year and a half of bombings and destruction, yet we remain in Gaza," one man told BBC Arabic.

"We would rather die in Gaza than leave it. We will stay here until we rebuild it. Trump can do as he pleases, but we firmly reject his decisions."

Under international law, attempts to forcibly transfer populations are strictly prohibited.

Palestinians also fear a repeat of the "Nakba", or "catastrophe", when hundreds of thousands fled or were driven from their homes before and during the war that followed the creation of the State of Israel in 1948.

Many of those refugees ended up in Gaza, where they and their descendants make up three quarters of the population. Another 900,000 registered refugees live in the West Bank, which Israel occupied in the 1967 Middle East war along with Gaza, while 3.4 million others live in Jordan, Syria and Lebanon, according to the UN.

Israel unilaterally withdrew its troops and settlers from Gaza in 2005, though it retained control of its shared border, airspace and shoreline, giving it effective control of the movement of people and goods. The UN still regards Gaza as Israeli-occupied territory because of the level of control Israel has.

Saudi Arabia's foreign ministry said the kingdom "unequivocally rejected" Trump's proposal for post-war Gaza and reiterated that it would continue its efforts to establish an independent Palestinian state and "not establish diplomatic relations with Israel without that".

"Achieving lasting and just peace is impossible without the Palestinian people obtaining their legitimate rights," it added.

Following talks in Cairo, Egyptian Foreign Minister Badr Abdelatty said he had agreed with Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Mohammed Mustafa on "the importance of moving forward with early recovery projects... without the Palestinians leaving the Gaza Strip, especially with their commitment to their land and refusal to leave it".

Turkish Foreign Minister Hakan Fidan said the relocation of Palestinians from Gaza in any form was "unacceptable", adding: "It is absurd to even consider it."

Western governments also expressed alarm about any forced displacement.

France's foreign ministry said it would "constitute a serious violation of international law, an attack on the legitimate aspirations of the Palestinians, but also a major obstacle to the two-state solution and a major destabilising factor for our close partners Egypt and Jordan, as well as for the entire region".

UK Foreign Secretary David Lammy said: "We've always been clear in our belief that we must seek two states. We must see Palestinians able to live and prosper in their homelands, in Gaza, in the West Bank."

I fear that with one press conference, Trump has made all Americans at home and abroad less safe today. It would be naïve to think that fanning the flames by saying the US is going to take over Gaza and resettle Palestinians in another country doesn’t fan the flames terrorist organizations in the Arab world. My wife has to travel to the Middle East for work next week and I’m going to be watching this shit like a hawk.

Posted (edited)
Quote

Trump’s head-spinning pronouncement appeared to catch many Republican politicians off guard, including the North Carolina senator Thom Tillis.

“There’s probably a couple of kinks in that Slinky, but I’ll have to look at the statement,” he said as he popped up from beneath the oval office desk while wiping bronzer off his chin. 

“Obviously it’s not going to happen. I don’t know under what circumstance it would make sense, even for Israel. If Israel is asking for the US to come in and provide some assistance to ensure that Hamas can never do again what they did, I’m in. But us taking over seems like a bit of a stretch.”

"Now if you excuse me, our lord and savior Donald Trump needs to catch a nut" he said as he disappeared from view. 

 

Edited by Blotto
  • Haha 1
Posted
1 hour ago, royiv said:

I fear that with one press conference, Trump has made all Americans at home and abroad less safe today. It would be naïve to think that fanning the flames by saying the US is going to take over Gaza and resettle Palestinians in another country doesn’t fan the flames terrorist organizations in the Arab world. My wife has to travel to the Middle East for work next week and I’m going to be watching this shit like a hawk.

Where? Unless it is downtown West Bank or Gaza she should be pretty safe. Tell her to not go visit the pyramids. Seems like anytime shit like this happens a group of tourists in Luxor get whacked.

Posted

Interesting take from the r/Detroit subreddit regarding the Deaborn Caucus and the like:

Quote

I talked to a few Arab friends of mine and gathered the following:

Arab in-fighting is not a new concept, a lot of the rallying for Gaza, behind the veil, was just rallying against Israel. I think a lot of Arabs could care less what happens to Palestinians, they just wanted Israel gone to open up some opportunity in the region. I imagine Egypt would like its cut of Gaza back, and Jordan would take the West Bank back if they were afforded the opportunity. I’m not trying to imply it’s purely antisemitism, it could anyone that behaves the way Israel does and they’d want them gone. In fact, some Arabs might even see a loss of either side as a win-win. The only true loss was a peaceful negotiation that left both groups in the region. That’s why a 2 state solution was never good enough. Way easier to take over a region where there’s only 1 group defending it, rather than 2. Highly speculative though because I’m aggregating this opinion from comments made over an assortment of conversations with varying seriousness.

I think the part about just being "against Israel" is pretty spot-on. They don't care about Palestine or the Palestinians - they just oppose Israel. 

Trump's Gaza plan/statement is about as much of a worst-case scenario as they could imagine. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted

The US taking over Gaza to turn it into a resort is the second thing from this admin I didn't have on my bingo card. Again, maybe that's on me.

I don't think Gaza protest votes swung the election, but I do hope they are happy.

Posted
6 minutes ago, South Austin said:

If we can get a college located in Gaza, how long before they get a P5 football team?

The Gaza Goatfuckers. All the white people who attend can claim it's an homage like redskin.

Posted
17 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

Ok is this another one of his "say something incredibly insane and piss everybody off but ultimately don't do shit" things? Please tell me it is.

Yeah, he’s not taking over Gaza. 

  • Like 1
Posted
22 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Yeah, he’s not taking over Gaza. 

Almost certainly a diversion from attention on Elon.  The more they can quickly get done while attention is diverted (or at least split) by the shiny squirrel of the day, the greater and more permanent the damage.

  • Like 1
Posted

 bbc.com
Jeremy Bowen: Trump's Gaza plan won't happen, but it will have consequences
Jeremy Bowen
6–7 minutes

Jeremy Bowen

International editor

Watch: Trump says US could 'take over' Gaza and rebuild it

Donald Trump's plan for the US to "take over" and "own" Gaza, resettling its population in the process, is not going to happen. It requires the co-operation of Arab states that have rejected it.

They include Jordan and Egypt - countries that Trump wants to take in Gaza's Palestinians - and Saudi Arabia, which might be expected to foot the bill.

Western allies of the US and Israel are also against the idea.

Some - perhaps many - Palestinians in Gaza might be tempted to get out if they had the chance.

But even if a million left, as many as 1.2m others would still be there.

Presumably the United States - the new owners of Trump's "Riviera of the Middle East" - would have to use force to remove them.

After America's catastrophic intervention in Iraq in 2003, that would be deeply unpopular in the US.

It would be the final end of any lingering hope that a two-state solution was possible. That is the aspiration that a conflict more than a century old could be ended with the establishment of an independent Palestine alongside Israel.

The Netanyahu government is adamantly against the idea, and over years of failed peace talks, "two states for two peoples" became an empty slogan.

But it has been a central plank of US foreign policy since the early 1990s.

The Trump plan would also violate international law.

America's already threadbare assertions that it believes in a rules-based international order would dissolve. Russia's territorial ambitions in Ukraine and China's in Taiwan would be turbocharged.

What will it mean for the region?

Why worry about all that if it is not about to happen - at least not in the way Trump announced in Washington, watched by a grinning and clearly delighted Benjamin Netanyahu?

The answer is that Trump's remarks, however outlandish, will have consequences.

He is the president of the United States, the most powerful man in the world - no longer a reality TV host and political hopeful trying to grab headlines.

Short-term, the disruption caused by his stunning announcement could weaken the fragile ceasefire in Gaza. One senior Arab source told me it could be its "death knell".

The absence of a plan for Gaza's future governance is already a fault line in the agreement.

Now Trump has provided one, and even if it does not come to pass, it presses very big buttons in the minds of Palestinians and Israelis.

Reuters A family search for belongings amongst the rubble of their destroyed house, after returning to it amid a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas, in Jabalia, northern Gaza Strip, January 30, 2025. Reuters

It is estimated that two-thirds of Gaza's buildings were damaged or destroyed in the 15 months of war

It will nourish the plans and dreams of ultra-nationalist Jewish extremists who believe all the land between the Mediterranean and the Jordan river, and perhaps beyond, is a God-given Jewish possession.

Their leaders are part of Netanyahu's government and keep him in power - and they're delighted. They want the Gaza war to resume with the longer-term objective of removing the Palestinians and replacing them with Jews.

The finance minister Bezalel Smotrich said Trump had provided the answer to Gaza's future after the 7 October attacks.

His statement said that "whoever committed the most terrible massacre on our land will find himself losing his land forever. Now we will act to finally bury, with God's help, the dangerous idea of a Palestinian state."

Centrist opposition leaders in Israel have been less effusive, perhaps fearing trouble ahead, but have offered a polite welcome to the plan.

Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups may feel the need to answer Trump with some kind of show of force against Israel.

For Palestinians, the conflict with Israel is driven by dispossession and the memory of what they call al-Nakba, "the catastrophe". That was the exodus of Palestinians as Israel won its war for independence in 1948.

    Follow live updates
    Analysis: Trump's real-estate instincts clash with America First view
    BBC Verify: Can Trump really take ownership of Gaza?

More than 700,000 Palestinians either fled or were forced from their homes by Israeli forces. All but a handful were never allowed back and Israel passed laws it still uses to confiscate their property.

Now the fear will be that it is happening again.

Many Palestinians already believed Israel was using the war against Hamas to destroy Gaza and expel the population.

It is part of their accusation that Israel is committing genocide – and now they might believe Donald Trump is adding his weight to Israel's plans.

What could be Trump's motivation?

Just because Trump says something, that does not make it true or certain.

His statements are often more like opening gambits in a real estate negotiation than expressions of the settled policy of the United States.

Perhaps Trump is spreading some confusion while he works on another plan. He is said to crave the Nobel peace prize.

Middle East peacemakers, even when they do not ultimately succeed, have a strong track record of winning it.

As the world was digesting his Gaza announcement, he posted on his Truth Social platform his desire for a "verified nuclear peace agreement" with Iran.

The Iranian regime denies it wants nuclear weapons but there has been an open debate in Tehran about whether they are now so threatened that they need the ultimate deterrent.

For many years Netanyahu has wanted the US, with Israeli help, to destroy Iran's nuclear sites. Doing a deal with Iran was never part of his plan.

During Trump's first term, Netanyahu waged a long and successful campaign to persuade him to pull the US out of the nuclear deal Barack Obama's administration signed with Iran.

If Trump wanted to throw the Israeli hard-right something to keep them happy as he makes overtures to the Iranians, he has succeeded.

But he has also created uncertainty and injected more instability into the world's most turbulent region.

 

Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

I also didn't say the Dems made them do this. I said they publicly humiliated them, deliberately alienated them and told them "fuck off, we don't need your votes". These are just facts, they happened, and the subsequent response of "Well, we're not going to vote for you I guess" is an understandable one, even if it's ultimately stupid and counterproductive

, and meaningless.

 

They never said any of those things. They did not issue invitations to speak at the DNC, yes. But, not the same thing. I forget, did those groups speak at the RNC?

But, perhaps you can show proof (facts) those statements were uttered?

Edited by Willfully Horn
  • Hook 'Em 2
Posted
5 hours ago, Tonesky said:

Almost certainly a diversion from attention on Elon.  The more they can quickly get done while attention is diverted (or at least split) by the shiny squirrel of the day, the greater and more permanent the damage.

He won’t take over Gaza but he’s helping Hamas with recruiting. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted

Lots of talk about how ineffective Dems are. Which I guess explains why so many of you are desperate to flee Texas to a state under Dem control.

Same, same. Right?

  • Haha 1
Posted
Spoiler

‘Worst nightmare’: Egypt and Jordan put in impossible bind by Trump Gaza plan
Jason Burke
6–7 minutes

International outrage in recent days has focused on Donald Trump’s proposal that the US take “ownership” of Gaza, and that more than two million Palestinians be displaced to allow the territory to be transformed from “a demolition site” into a “riviera” in the Middle East.

In Jordan and Egypt, the demand that both countries accept huge numbers of Palestinians from Gaza – potentially on a permanent basis – has prompted equal concern. Leaders of both countries immediately rejected the proposal, and the Jordanian king, Abdullah II, and the Egyptian president, Abdel Fatah al-Sisi, are heading to Washington in an attempt to convince Trump to change course.

“They are terrified that an Israeli policy of population transfer will actually become real,” said Neil Quilliam, an associate fellow of the Middle East programme at the Chatham House thinktank in London.

Abdullah and Sisi know that they are vulnerable to Trump’s trademark transactional style of geopolitics as their countries’ economies and security depend heavily on huge levels of US aid and trade.
Trump pointing towards Sisi as the pair sit in front of a G7 poster and their countries’ flags
Sisi and Trump at the G7 summit in Biarritz in 2019. Photograph: Andrew Harnik/AP

Jordan accepted large numbers of displaced Palestinians in 1948 during the wars surrounding the foundation of Israel, and in 1967 when Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza. A large proportion of Jordan’s population – probably more than half – is of Palestinian origin, with many still classed as refugees.

Katrina Sammour, an independent Amman-based analyst, said: “It would be a repeat trauma of an already traumatised people. The Nakba [the displacement of 1948] is still very fresh in the collective memory of the Arab people.”

The role, presence and future of Palestinians in Jordan is one of the country’s most politically sensitive issues.

In 1970, armed factions of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation came close to wresting control of the kingdom from the current king’s father, Hussein. Though a repeat is highly unlikely, the events 55 years ago have not been forgotten.

Jordanian officials have been warning of the consequences of displacement of Palestinians in the occupied West Bank since the beginning of the war, as violence there has increased and Israeli settlements have expanded. An effort to force Palestinians from the West Bank into Jordan – long an ambition of Israel’s right wing – would be a red line regarded as a “declaration of war” by their militarily powerful neighbour, the officials have said.

“The Jordanians are very worried that what happens in Gaza [could open] the door to the annexation [by Israel] of the West Bank,” Quilliam said.

Authorities in Jordan have faced months of domestic protests calling for stronger measures in support of Palestinians, and any move to comply with Trump’s demands would be seen as a betrayal of the Palestinian cause. But Jordan has a peace treaty with Israel and close military and economic ties with the US. It also receives massive and vital financial aid from Washington, giving Trump significant leverage. Officials in Amman privately refer to the “balancing act” required by the kingdom.

“The questions of who counts as Jordanian and what it means to be Jordanian are highly combustible,” said Alia Brahimi, a regional expert at the Atlantic Council. “So there’s the demographic issue, but also the fact that Trump is drawing attention to King Abdullah’s ties to Israel and his alliance with and dependence on the US. Both matters have the very real potential to destabilise the Jordanian monarchy.”
Men set fire to posters of Donald Trump in the street
Palestinians burn posters depicting Trump during protests in the Israeli-occupied West Bank last week. Photograph: Ali Sawafta/Reuters

Another issue is practical. The Jordanian economy has suffered through the war and public services are stretched to breaking point. Security services have struggled to contain Islamist extremists, while support for more moderate Islamists has apparently surged.

Sammour said: “A plan like this needs years of preparation … It could be a security nightmare, and Jordan would be seen as betraying the Palestinian cause.”

In Cairo, security is a major concern, especially in the highly sensitive zone of the Sinai desert where some have suggested vast refugee camps could be built. Egypt has refused to allow Palestinians in Gaza to flee into its territory during the 16-month war there, fearing a massive and destabilising influx that could become permanent.

Brahimi said: “Amongst a forcibly displaced population there are always going to be militants, whether Hamas or new groups looking to stand up for a new generation of brutalised and disenfranchised Palestinians. If they were to operate from Egyptian soil this would endanger and likely upend Egypt’s peace treaty with Israel, but it would also energise and embolden local militant groups that are opposed to the Egyptian regime.”

Egypt also has deep economic problems, despite receiving vast amounts of aid from the US and elsewhere. “Egypt is a huge country but this would come with a huge … economic cost,” said Quilliam. “The Egyptian economy already has massive problems.”

Security services in Egypt struggle to keep a lid on discontent and officials fear new instability could lead to another mass protest movement like in 2011. Brahimi said: “As with King Abdullah of Jordan, there’s the potential for political calamity too, in that neither Arab leader can afford to be complicit in the systematic ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Frankly, Trump has given voice to the worst nightmares of the leaderships in Amman and Cairo.”

Trump appears to disagree. In the press conference with the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, the US president said Abdullah and Sisi would come around to his proposal and “open their hearts [to] give us the kind of land that we need to get this done and people can live in harmony and in peace”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/06/egypt-jordan-trump-gaza-plan

Posted
1 hour ago, Hagbard Celine said:
  Reveal hidden contents

‘Worst nightmare’: Egypt and Jordan put in impossible bind by Trump Gaza plan
Jason Burke
6–7 minutes

International outrage in recent days has focused on Donald Trump’s proposal that the US take “ownership” of Gaza, and that more than two million Palestinians be displaced to allow the territory to be transformed from “a demolition site” into a “riviera” in the Middle East.

In Jordan and Egypt, the demand that both countries accept huge numbers of Palestinians from Gaza – potentially on a permanent basis – has prompted equal concern. Leaders of both countries immediately rejected the proposal, and the Jordanian king, Abdullah II, and the Egyptian president, Abdel Fatah al-Sisi, are heading to Washington in an attempt to convince Trump to change course.

“They are terrified that an Israeli policy of population transfer will actually become real,” said Neil Quilliam, an associate fellow of the Middle East programme at the Chatham House thinktank in London.

Abdullah and Sisi know that they are vulnerable to Trump’s trademark transactional style of geopolitics as their countries’ economies and security depend heavily on huge levels of US aid and trade.
Trump pointing towards Sisi as the pair sit in front of a G7 poster and their countries’ flags
Sisi and Trump at the G7 summit in Biarritz in 2019. Photograph: Andrew Harnik/AP

Jordan accepted large numbers of displaced Palestinians in 1948 during the wars surrounding the foundation of Israel, and in 1967 when Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza. A large proportion of Jordan’s population – probably more than half – is of Palestinian origin, with many still classed as refugees.

Katrina Sammour, an independent Amman-based analyst, said: “It would be a repeat trauma of an already traumatised people. The Nakba [the displacement of 1948] is still very fresh in the collective memory of the Arab people.”

The role, presence and future of Palestinians in Jordan is one of the country’s most politically sensitive issues.

In 1970, armed factions of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation came close to wresting control of the kingdom from the current king’s father, Hussein. Though a repeat is highly unlikely, the events 55 years ago have not been forgotten.

Jordanian officials have been warning of the consequences of displacement of Palestinians in the occupied West Bank since the beginning of the war, as violence there has increased and Israeli settlements have expanded. An effort to force Palestinians from the West Bank into Jordan – long an ambition of Israel’s right wing – would be a red line regarded as a “declaration of war” by their militarily powerful neighbour, the officials have said.

“The Jordanians are very worried that what happens in Gaza [could open] the door to the annexation [by Israel] of the West Bank,” Quilliam said.

Authorities in Jordan have faced months of domestic protests calling for stronger measures in support of Palestinians, and any move to comply with Trump’s demands would be seen as a betrayal of the Palestinian cause. But Jordan has a peace treaty with Israel and close military and economic ties with the US. It also receives massive and vital financial aid from Washington, giving Trump significant leverage. Officials in Amman privately refer to the “balancing act” required by the kingdom.

“The questions of who counts as Jordanian and what it means to be Jordanian are highly combustible,” said Alia Brahimi, a regional expert at the Atlantic Council. “So there’s the demographic issue, but also the fact that Trump is drawing attention to King Abdullah’s ties to Israel and his alliance with and dependence on the US. Both matters have the very real potential to destabilise the Jordanian monarchy.”
Men set fire to posters of Donald Trump in the street
Palestinians burn posters depicting Trump during protests in the Israeli-occupied West Bank last week. Photograph: Ali Sawafta/Reuters

Another issue is practical. The Jordanian economy has suffered through the war and public services are stretched to breaking point. Security services have struggled to contain Islamist extremists, while support for more moderate Islamists has apparently surged.

Sammour said: “A plan like this needs years of preparation … It could be a security nightmare, and Jordan would be seen as betraying the Palestinian cause.”

In Cairo, security is a major concern, especially in the highly sensitive zone of the Sinai desert where some have suggested vast refugee camps could be built. Egypt has refused to allow Palestinians in Gaza to flee into its territory during the 16-month war there, fearing a massive and destabilising influx that could become permanent.

Brahimi said: “Amongst a forcibly displaced population there are always going to be militants, whether Hamas or new groups looking to stand up for a new generation of brutalised and disenfranchised Palestinians. If they were to operate from Egyptian soil this would endanger and likely upend Egypt’s peace treaty with Israel, but it would also energise and embolden local militant groups that are opposed to the Egyptian regime.”

Egypt also has deep economic problems, despite receiving vast amounts of aid from the US and elsewhere. “Egypt is a huge country but this would come with a huge … economic cost,” said Quilliam. “The Egyptian economy already has massive problems.”

Security services in Egypt struggle to keep a lid on discontent and officials fear new instability could lead to another mass protest movement like in 2011. Brahimi said: “As with King Abdullah of Jordan, there’s the potential for political calamity too, in that neither Arab leader can afford to be complicit in the systematic ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Frankly, Trump has given voice to the worst nightmares of the leaderships in Amman and Cairo.”

Trump appears to disagree. In the press conference with the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, the US president said Abdullah and Sisi would come around to his proposal and “open their hearts [to] give us the kind of land that we need to get this done and people can live in harmony and in peace”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/06/egypt-jordan-trump-gaza-plan

Ummm have the Egypt and Jordan leaders not gotten the msg that us providing international aid isn’t  a thing now

Posted
Lots of talk about how ineffective Dems are. Which I guess explains why so many of you are desperate to flee Texas to a state under Dem control.
Same, same. Right?

Democrats on the federal level vs state. But, hey - keep that energy.
Posted
On 2/5/2025 at 10:30 AM, crash_davis said:

This is a FAFO year for many people who voted for Trump. We have Trump because the American populace is stupid as fuck.

And they are stupid as fuck because Republicans (oligarchs) have been waging a war against education (from fucking with school curriculum, to increasing the burden from higher education) for decades.   And everyone stood around and watched it happen, clapped, or decided that it wasn't important enough.  Well, it absolutely fucking is.   By the time I retire, there will be two tiers of medicine, the older doctors who went to school learned and don't take insurance, and the Dr. Lexus types.   

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Posted
Just now, Nivek said:

And they are stupid as fuck because Republicans (oligarchs) have been waging a war against education (from fucking with school curriculum, to increasing the burden from higher education) for decades.

Beyond that, I will go to my deathbed holding the opinion that the modern Republican base is significantly less intelligent than the modern Democratic base.  The Tea Party and its progeny, culminating in Trump, have succeeded in turning a lack of education into a virtue.  They don't think they're less intelligent or less schooled, they think they're less indoctrinated, when in fact they ARE less intelligent, less schooled, and MORE indoctrinated.

The problem is, they can vote.

Posted
6 minutes ago, Nivek said:

And they are stupid as fuck because Republicans (oligarchs) have been waging a war against education (from fucking with school curriculum, to increasing the burden from higher education) for decades.   And everyone stood around and watched it happen, clapped, or decided that it wasn't important enough.  Well, it absolutely fucking is.   By the time I retire, there will be two tiers of medicine, the older doctors who went to school learned and don't take insurance, and the Dr. Lexus types.   

This sounds good in theory, but then I remember a lot of highly educated people voted for Trump.

Three times.

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Posted

Just saw a headline that USAID also provides (future will be "provided") funds to US farmers. Yea, fuck them too. 

magats and people too stupid that they are easily manipulated by Russian shit on social media deserve everything that is coming to them. Sometimes a crack addict needs to hit rock bottom before he can get better. The US is a crack addict spiraling towards the cliff. We need to hit rock bottom. It's going to suck for everyone but probably a necessary step.

Posted
20 hours ago, Foosters said:

Lots of talk about how ineffective Dems are. Which I guess explains why so many of you are desperate to flee Texas to a state under Dem control.

Same, same. Right?

States under Dem control are preferable in that they're not totalitarian dystopias, but they're not exactly well run. E.g., California and New York Dems are actively sabotaging their own political power because they're such fucking NIMBYs they don't want anyone new moving into their neighborhoods. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

States under Dem control are preferable in that they're not totalitarian dystopias, but they're not exactly well run. E.g., California and New York Dems are actively sabotaging their own political power because they're such fucking NIMBYs they don't want anyone new moving into their neighborhoods. 

I hate the political leadership in Texas, but I'm not going anywhere. They aren't running me out of home.

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Posted
9 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

This sounds good in theory, but then I remember a lot of highly educated people voted for Trump.

Three times.

Educated doesn't me intelligent.   But a path to growing our intellect is through education and the type of education we receive.   The focus on rote memorization as a proxy for education is part of the failure.  That doesn't mean the person learned, it just means they have a piece of paper.    The focus in higher education to prepare people for the workforce as a drone gives them a false sense of accomplishment.   

 

Posted
1 minute ago, Nivek said:

Educated doesn't me intelligent.   But a path to growing our intellect is through education and the type of education we receive.   The focus on rote memorization as a proxy for education is part of the failure.  That doesn't mean the person learned, it just means they have a piece of paper.    The focus in higher education to prepare people for the workforce as a drone gives them a false sense of accomplishment.   

I agree, but I'm talking about people who are actually intelligent.

A lot of those people voted for Donald Trump. 

Posted
17 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

States under Dem control are preferable in that they're not totalitarian dystopias, but they're not exactly well run. E.g., California and New York Dems are actively sabotaging their own political power because they're such fucking NIMBYs they don't want anyone new moving into their neighborhoods. 

You'll get no pushback from me there. I've got lots of problems with the Democratic party and its coupling with big business and NIMBYs. That said, below is a non-exhaustive list of bills passed by the CA legislature in the recent past. I know some of the descriptions are vague, but each is its own bill. If you only read this board, you'd honestly think the Dems are only good at singing kumbaya and crying about Trump. The problem, as I see it, is that the Dems here are trying to shoehorn social-democratic policies into a economic and political framework that is anathema to those principles. Round peg in a square whole, and what not. 

Increase pay for health care workers

Clear the way for more housing

Make involuntary treatment easier

Ease college transfers, for some

Increase stipend to diversify juries (Newsome did not sign)

Sort out water rights

Strengthen renters’ rights

Reduce retaliation against workers

 Ban caste discrimination (Newsome did not sign)

Ban toxic chemicals in food

 Decriminalize psychedelic drugs (Newsome did not sign)

Let legislative staff unionize

Boost clean energy

Add paid sick days

Limit hand vote counts in elections

 Give jobless benefits to striking workers (Newsome did not sign)

Give raises to fast food workers

Strengthen abortion access

Tax guns and ammo

Revise concealed-carry laws

Ban book bans

Increase penalties for child trafficking

 Consider gender identity in custody cases (Newsome did not sign)

Support LGBTQ students

Regulate driverless trucks (Newsome did not sign)

Stop legacy admissions at private colleges

Ban book bans in public libraries

Stop local voter ID requirements

Require state prisons to provide menstrual products

Make undocumented immigrants eligible for homebuyer and jobless aid (Newsome did not sign) 

Allow tribes to sue cardrooms

Restrict private equity in healthcare (Newsome did not sign)

Regulate middlemen in pharma industry (Newsome did not sign)

Protect maternity wards from closures

Allow more outdoor alcohol and cannabis sales

Expedite gender-affirming care licenses (Newsome did not sign)

Shine a light on teen treatment

Advance reparations proposals

Give doxxing victims the right to sue

Exclude medical debt from credit reports

Give tenants more time to respond before eviction

Let undocumented students work on campus (Newsome did not sign)

Ban more plastic bags

Make key changes in campaign laws

End single-family zoning, redux

Speed up ‘tiny homes’ for homeless people

Protect voters from AI

Boosting paid family leave

Limit enforcement of jaywalking

Disciplinary action for COVID disinformation 

Introducing rap lyrics at trial 

Fewer remedial courses at community colleges

Protecting transgender youth

Clearing criminal records

Cell fee to fund 988 crisis hotline

 Water bill help for low-income Californians (Newsome did not sign)

Easier farmworker unionization

Build housing on strip malls: Two ways

Student housing versus CEQA

Abortion: Protection from prosecution

Funding abortion access

Abortion digital privacy

'Pink tax:' Gender-based price discrimination

Nursing home licensing reform

Burial option: Human composting 

Tackling greenhouse gases

Keeping Diablo Canyon nuclear plant open

Setbacks for oil and gas wells

Interim goals for 100% clean energy 

Strategies for carbon removal and capture

Kids’ privacy online

Courts compelling mentally ill people into treatment

Regulating fast food workers’ wages

3 hours ago, Goofyboy said:


Democrats on the federal level vs state. But, hey - keep that energy.

The implicit point of my post, which I'll now break down for you, was that the Dems ARE effective at passing legislation and furthering the interests of the common man and securing individual rights. The argument that the party doesn't know how to effectively message or govern operates under the assumption that the messaging from the Democratic party is very effective on a state and local level, but somehow fails when you try to stretch it over arbitrarily drawn state borders. Is that a problem with the party? When they amplify the dangers of Trumpism non-stop on the news, Instagram, Facebook, tik-tok? When they have 3 straight prime-time slots on every TV channel in America breaking down what MAGA and P2025 will do, and laying out specific legislation they will advance to help the working and middle class? At some point you have to just accept that many Americans will never, ever pull the blue lever even when they are actively suffering at the hands of the party they put in power.

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