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Posted

Israel doing what it does best: steal land from its neighbors. 

Also, a reminder, Netanyahu illegally "annexed" the Golan Heights a few years ago. Of course, Trump's recognition of that annexation makes the US the only country in the world to do so.

Israel Digs In Beyond Its Northern Border
Israel has built a growing network of outposts and fortifications in Syria and Lebanon, deepening concerns about a protracted occupation in parts of the two countries.

Israel says it wants to prevent another surprise attack across its borders like the October 2023 Hamas-led attack that ignited the war in Gaza. It has not said how long its forces will remain in its neighbors’ territories, where groups hostile to Israel are present.

But there are signs that Israel appears prepared to remain indefinitely, a visual analysis by The New York Times has found.

The military has set up watchtowers, prefabricated housing modules, roads and communication infrastructure, according to local residents and the United Nations. An image taken in January of an area near the Syrian town of Jubata al-Khashab shows heavy equipment at work and a newly built perimeter wall.

jubata-al-khashab-945.jpg

Archived link because it has so many photos and maps, which would be a pain in the ass to copy/paste: https://archive.is/quTEL

OG link: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/03/31/world/middleeast/israel-border-military-outposts-syria-lebanon-border.html

 

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Posted

What the fuck is this shit LMAO

https://jewishinsider.com/2025/04/netanyahu-pushes-back-on-anti-israel-trends-in-meeting-with-podcasters/

Quote

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu tried to push back against anti-Israel trends in the right-wing media world by holding a briefing on Monday in the Blair House for podcasters and other media figures, sources in the meeting told Jewish Insider on Tuesday.

Among those in attendance were podcasters including Dave Rubin, Tim Pool and former White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer, writers Bethany Mandel and David J. Harris Jr., influencer Jessica Kraus, Commentary senior editor Seth Mandel and Federalist Editor-in-Chief Mollie Hemingway.

In addition to Netanyahu, his diplomatic advisor Ophir Falk and Israeli Ambassador to the U.S. Yechiel Leiter were present on the Israeli side.

Pool expressed concerns about increased antisemitism and anti-Zionism in the pro-Trump podcasting space, according to sources in the room. Pool famously had Kanye West on his podcast, and the rapper walked out mid-interview after Pool pushed back against antisemitic comments.

Responding to Pool, Netanyahu said that is the reason he invited the group to meet with him.

Pool asked if there was a Qatari “op” to manipulate social media algorithms to make antisemitic and anti-Israel episodes appear to receive an outsized number of views, in order to incentivize podcasters and YouTubers to produce more antisemitic content.

Netanyahu, however, was noncommittal in his response, saying only that “it’s possible.”

The prime minister emphasized in the context of Qatar as well as Iran that Israel and the U.S. share the same adversaries.

Iran, Netanyahu said, wants to destroy both the U.S. and Israel.

Hemingway asked Netanyahu several questions about Israel’s planned response to the Iran nuclear threat, including whether Israel wants a ground war with Iran and whether Israel expects America to help fight such a war.

Netanyahu said that Israel has never asked America to put boots on the ground in its defense and does not plan to do so.

The prime minister also said that it is “important” for the U.S. to negotiate to try to dismantle Iran’s nuclear program, but declined to answer further questions and clearly viewed it as a sensitive subject, according to sources in the room.

Netanyahu insisted that President Donald Trump knows what he’s doing.

The prime minister spoke extensively about “the deep state” in Israel, at a time when he is seeking to fire the head of the Shin Bet and his justice minister wants to fire the attorney general, with whom Netanyahu has clashed repeatedly since returning to office in 2022, and especially since the war in Gaza began in 2023.

Asked if his government plans to continue to reform the judiciary, sources in the room said that Netanyahu pointed out that Israel already changed the makeup of the committee that selects judges, and that there may be some small further steps taken.

Netanyahu said it is important to balance the need for reforms with national unity at a time of war.

 

Posted

The ridiculous thing is, Netanyahu only barely returned to power with a microscopic majority. But that 2023 war I guess has enabled him to establish himself as dictator for life. 

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Posted
4 hours ago, Eskimohorn said:


I think thats it for me on Israel.

Why? There has been subsequent reporting on the story. IDF says that some of the dead were militants. There is a survivor that IDF released. 
 
From the reading, it is clear- the IDF will absolutely fire on marked aid trucks in combat zones. Why? Because they have often carried militants. That’s the situation. 
 
Were innocent aid workers killed here? Probably. Militants either disguised as aid workers or at least moon lighting as aid workers? Probably. 

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Posted
30 minutes ago, statsman said:

From the reading, it is clear- the IDF will absolutely fire on marked aid trucks in combat zones. Why? Because they have come to peace with murdering innocent people 

Fify 

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Schulz2.0 said:

Fify 

Not really. The only ones happy with the IDF killing civilians are Hamas, and their supporters in Qatar and Iran. 
 
Those IDF soldiers don’t want to be in Gaza. The remaining two dozen live hostages really don’t want to be there. If it wasn’t for October 7, they wouldn’t be there. 

How odd that there is no world pressure on Hamas’ backers. 

Edited by statsman
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Posted
Why? There has been subsequent reporting on the story. IDF says that some of the dead were militants. There is a survivor that IDF released. 
 
From the reading, it is clear- the IDF will absolutely fire on marked aid trucks in combat zones. Why? Because they have often carried militants. That’s the situation. 
 
Were innocent aid workers killed here? Probably. Militants either disguised as aid workers or at least moon lighting as aid workers? Probably. 

Theres a way to wage war against terrorists but this is not it. There are no sides to take here. Time to cut support for Israel until they act like a responsible government.

Israel lobbies US governments and media to prevent opposition protest and speech amongst Americans. Laws have been passed. Reputations and discourse muddied. They are no longer allies. They are adversaries.

A US policy should still be to neutralize Hamas and entities that support them.
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Posted
14 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:


Theres a way to wage war against terrorists but this is not it. 

 

Oh, I am all ears. In October 7, Hamas, and nearby Gazan civilians, spirited away over 200 Israeli hostages. Please, enlighten me as to what Israel should have done. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, statsman said:

Not really. The only ones happy with the IDF killing civilians are Hamas, and their supporters in Qatar and Iran. 
 
Those IDF soldiers don’t want to be in Gaza. The remaining two dozen live hostages really don’t want to be there. If it wasn’t for October 7, they wouldn’t be there. 

How odd that there is no world pressure on Hamas’ backers. 

You can be against Hamas and also be against Israel giving zero fucks about killing civilians, including aid workers and journalists.

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Posted
Oh, I am all ears. In October 7, Hamas, and nearby Gazan civilians, spirited away over 200 Israeli hostages. Please, enlighten me as to what Israel should have done. 

Read your Art of War - https://cilj.co.uk/2020/08/30/sun-tzus-art-of-war-and-the-first-principles-of-international-humanitarian-law/#:~:text=Sun%20Tzu%20advocates%20that%20the,resort%20%5BIII%3A3%5D.


Sun Tzu advocates that the highest realisation of warfare is attacking the enemy’s plans, next is to disrupt alliances, then to attack their army, and last is to attack cities, which must be pursued as a last resort [iII:3]. The prohibition on attacking cities is also apparent in the Art of War’s chapter on attack by stratagem. It needs to be noted here that Sun Tzu is not discussing mere military strategy, but the fundamental objectives of war. He thus emphasises that killing civilians is not the objective, [iI:19] and that the best policy is to take a State intact [iII:1], which is in consonance with the principle of distinction. The devastating humanitarian consequences of urban warfare and sieges in modern warfare show the contemporary relevance of Sun Tzu’s teachings.[/Quote]

Israel has proven to be bloodthirsty. Its reaction to the terrorist attack was not measured and that their motives and actions are duplicitous. Their current government doesn’t seem to be accountable or humane.
Posted

This is what I think-

1. There was a Jewish minority in the Levant. 
2. After the failed Nazi Final Solution, there were a few million Jewish refugees in Europe. Refugees, in that the survivors of the camps had their homes taken from them and no one was giving them back. Many tried to return home, and new, non-Nazi pogroms killed them. (This is why it is so offensive for US collegiate protesters to yell at Israeli speakers, “Go back to Europe!” Those idiot students may not know that police in France and Germany currently warn Jews against being too obviously Jewish - it’s not safe- and they certainly don’t care).
3. In Response to centuries of European anti-Semitism, a Zionist movement arose. Zionism is a movement with a goal of a Jewish state, in the area of the Biblical Israel. After WWII, this sounded like a good idea to surviving Jews, who fled to the Levant, under British control. 
4. The Balfour decision, sectarian fighting, massacres and attempted massacres by both sides, and finally a Jewish state of Israel. Jews in neighboring states dropped in population, voluntarily and involuntarily. 
5. De-colonization by the British, and the forming of several independent states and kingdoms, most of which, over the next few decades becoming authoritarian Islamic states. 
6. Expelled Palestinians became refugees, but with support of co-religionists, refugees that remained extant, with the goal of re-occupying the land now called Israel. 
7. The ugly part- Israel is a liberal democracy, and it is a Jewish state. It has Muslim citizens with full citizen rights, with the exception that laws conform with Judaism and not with Islam, if there is ever a conflict. Israelis are keenly aware that if the Muslim population ever outnumbered the Jewish population, Israel will cease to be a Jewish state. 
To this end, Israel has immigration policies that very much favor Jews. A Jew from anywhere in the world can claim citizenship in Israel, often at Israel’s expense. Other potential immigrants, such as a close relative of a Muslim Israeli citizen, will find it nearly impossible to immigrate to Israel. (18% of Israelis are Muslim). 
8. Those Palestinian refugees? Their leaders want them to move back in and reclaim the land where their grandparents and great grandparents lived. (I say “their leaders”, because rank and file Palestinians don’t get to vote on whether they’d like to make a go of it as a separate state(s) in Gaza and West Bank, or emigrate to Egypt or Jordan. They aren’t given those choices.). This is called “the right of return”, and it means allowing descendants of those expelled to move into Israel, as citizens of a new state or some new version of Israel. Because the Palestinian have been kept as refugees, through an informal cooperation of the world’s nations, there is a rough assessment of who and how many this would apply to.

9. Terror and wars aside- this is the big sticking point. Israel believes, right or wrong , that “right of return” is existentially a no-go. That is why the most liberal and amenable Israelis support a two-state solution, some even willing to cede real estate within the ‘73 borders, but are not willing to consider a “right of return”.

10. Palestinian leadership- for over fifty years, the most militant sections of Palestinian society have been well funded by outsiders (at times Russia, at times Saudi, more recently Iran and Qatar) that really have a goal of eliminating the Jewish state. (Ugly side note- top Palestinian leaders get filthy rich)

11. Gaza- Israel, since 1996, has controlled (with varying degrees of cooperation with Egypt, depending upon that nation’s politics at the time) entry of goods into Gaza. They do this because they find a lot of weapons coming into Gaza.

12. Hamas has controlled Gaza for 18 years. Half the Gazan population is under 18, their “education” overseen by Hamas. (Interestingly, a couple of weeks ago, there were minor Gazan protests against Hamas. A teen was nabbed by Hamas, tortured to death, and his body left at his family’s door.)

13. The war, and the cruel loss of innocent life. You know, the IDF has documented the tunnels and weapons of Hamas. Do you think they are lying, that the IDF dug all those tunnels, built all those crude rockets, purchased and stored all those munitions, buying from the same source as the Iranians do, to make Hamas look bad? Hamas stores weapons in Gazan civilians’ homes and has tunnel entrances in the homes of Gazan civilians. Hamas has military HQs in mosques and hospitals (they documented a torture dungeon in a major Gazan hospital).

Why does the IDF fire at Red Crescent vehicles? Because Hamas puts militants in them. They actually have a protocol where an emergency aid vehicle has to check in with the IDF before entering an area, or they fire on them. 
 
I’m curious- have any of you studied the statistics on loss of life from the Syrian Civil War? I think that if you did, you would have a greater appreciation for the IDF’s approach.

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Posted
14 hours ago, statsman said:

This is what I think-

1. There was a Jewish minority in the Levant. 
2. After the failed Nazi Final Solution, there were a few million Jewish refugees in Europe. Refugees, in that the survivors of the camps had their homes taken from them and no one was giving them back. Many tried to return home, and new, non-Nazi pogroms killed them. (This is why it is so offensive for US collegiate protesters to yell at Israeli speakers, “Go back to Europe!” Those idiot students may not know that police in France and Germany currently warn Jews against being too obviously Jewish - it’s not safe- and they certainly don’t care).
3. In Response to centuries of European anti-Semitism, a Zionist movement arose. Zionism is a movement with a goal of a Jewish state, in the area of the Biblical Israel. After WWII, this sounded like a good idea to surviving Jews, who fled to the Levant, under British control. 
4. The Balfour decision, sectarian fighting, massacres and attempted massacres by both sides, and finally a Jewish state of Israel. Jews in neighboring states dropped in population, voluntarily and involuntarily. 
5. De-colonization by the British, and the forming of several independent states and kingdoms, most of which, over the next few decades becoming authoritarian Islamic states. 
6. Expelled Palestinians became refugees, but with support of co-religionists, refugees that remained extant, with the goal of re-occupying the land now called Israel. 
7. The ugly part- Israel is a liberal democracy, and it is a Jewish state. It has Muslim citizens with full citizen rights, with the exception that laws conform with Judaism and not with Islam, if there is ever a conflict. Israelis are keenly aware that if the Muslim population ever outnumbered the Jewish population, Israel will cease to be a Jewish state. 
To this end, Israel has immigration policies that very much favor Jews. A Jew from anywhere in the world can claim citizenship in Israel, often at Israel’s expense. Other potential immigrants, such as a close relative of a Muslim Israeli citizen, will find it nearly impossible to immigrate to Israel. (18% of Israelis are Muslim). 
8. Those Palestinian refugees? Their leaders want them to move back in and reclaim the land where their grandparents and great grandparents lived. (I say “their leaders”, because rank and file Palestinians don’t get to vote on whether they’d like to make a go of it as a separate state(s) in Gaza and West Bank, or emigrate to Egypt or Jordan. They aren’t given those choices.). This is called “the right of return”, and it means allowing descendants of those expelled to move into Israel, as citizens of a new state or some new version of Israel. Because the Palestinian have been kept as refugees, through an informal cooperation of the world’s nations, there is a rough assessment of who and how many this would apply to.

9. Terror and wars aside- this is the big sticking point. Israel believes, right or wrong , that “right of return” is existentially a no-go. That is why the most liberal and amenable Israelis support a two-state solution, some even willing to cede real estate within the ‘73 borders, but are not willing to consider a “right of return”.

10. Palestinian leadership- for over fifty years, the most militant sections of Palestinian society have been well funded by outsiders (at times Russia, at times Saudi, more recently Iran and Qatar) that really have a goal of eliminating the Jewish state. (Ugly side note- top Palestinian leaders get filthy rich)

11. Gaza- Israel, since 1996, has controlled (with varying degrees of cooperation with Egypt, depending upon that nation’s politics at the time) entry of goods into Gaza. They do this because they find a lot of weapons coming into Gaza.

12. Hamas has controlled Gaza for 18 years. Half the Gazan population is under 18, their “education” overseen by Hamas. (Interestingly, a couple of weeks ago, there were minor Gazan protests against Hamas. A teen was nabbed by Hamas, tortured to death, and his body left at his family’s door.)

13. The war, and the cruel loss of innocent life. You know, the IDF has documented the tunnels and weapons of Hamas. Do you think they are lying, that the IDF dug all those tunnels, built all those crude rockets, purchased and stored all those munitions, buying from the same source as the Iranians do, to make Hamas look bad? Hamas stores weapons in Gazan civilians’ homes and has tunnel entrances in the homes of Gazan civilians. Hamas has military HQs in mosques and hospitals (they documented a torture dungeon in a major Gazan hospital).

Why does the IDF fire at Red Crescent vehicles? Because Hamas puts militants in them. They actually have a protocol where an emergency aid vehicle has to check in with the IDF before entering an area, or they fire on them. 
 
I’m curious- have any of you studied the statistics on loss of life from the Syrian Civil War? I think that if you did, you would have a greater appreciation for the IDF’s approach.

They killed more than just Red Crescent aid workers. World Central Kitchen aid workers in a clearly marked vehicle. Hell, they killed an American citizen, Rachel Corrie, by running her over in an armored bulldozer because she was protesting the Israelis bulldozer houses in the West Bank.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/israel-draws-international-outrage-after-airstrikes-kills-7-aid-workers

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/mar/17/israel.usa

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Schulz2.0 said:

They killed more than just Red Crescent aid workers. World Central Kitchen aid workers in a clearly marked vehicle. Hell, they killed an American citizen, Rachel Corrie, by running her over in an armored bulldozer because she was protesting the Israelis bulldozer houses in the West Bank.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/israel-draws-international-outrage-after-airstrikes-kills-7-aid-workers

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/mar/17/israel.usa

Do you realize that in both of those cases, investigations were held? In the latter case, there were criminal and civil trials? In the former, soldiers were disciplined and/or discharged (the investigation determined it was an error and not intentional. This can be googled).

Does that make a difference to you? It does to me. “Fog of War” incidents happen, in every army and in every war. I think how armies and nations handle it after is important.

I see two nations- Ukraine and Israel. Each trying to be independent, each adjacent to an aggressive neighbor that wants to absorb them and will stop at nothing to do so. Each aggressive invader (Putin’s Russia, Hamas) have disdain for the lives of their own citizens and those in the nation they are attacking). Each can be criticized for not meeting desired standards of liberal democracy, but each clearly more free than its neighbor(s). The only difference is that Israel is in a much stronger position of defense, for now. I support both of them in their wars against aggression.

 

Edited by statsman
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Posted
21 minutes ago, statsman said:

Do you realize that in both of those cases, investigations were held? In the latter case, there were criminal and civil trials? In the former, soldiers were disciplined and/or discharged (the investigation determined it was an error and not intentional. This can be googled).

Does that make a difference to you? It does to me. “Fog of War” incidents happen, in every army and in every war. I think how armies and nations handle it after is important.

I see two nations- Ukraine and Israel. Each trying to be independent, each adjacent to an aggressive neighbor that wants to absorb them and will stop at nothing to do so. Each aggressive invader (Putin’s Russia, Hamas) have disdain for the lives of their own citizens and those in the nation they are attacking). Each can be criticized for not meeting desired standards of liberal democracy, but each clearly more free than its neighbor(s). The only difference is that Israel is in a much stronger position of defense, for now. I support both of them in their wars against aggression.

 

Israel would be the invader in this instance.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Schulz2.0 said:

Israel would be the invader in this instance.

Why? They were attacked by an invading force, that has an avowed (and written) goal of taking their land. When this war is over, Israel intends to leave Gaza. How can you call Israel an invading force?

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, statsman said:

Why? They were attacked by an invading force, that has an avowed (and written) goal of taking their land. When this war is over, Israel intends to leave Gaza. How can you call Israel an invading force?

Do you really believe that’s Netanyahu’s and the rest of the far right’s intent?

Edited by DDD Dad
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Posted
19 minutes ago, statsman said:

Why? They were attacked by an invading force, that has an avowed (and written) goal of taking their land. When this war is over, Israel intends to leave Gaza. How can you call Israel an invading force?

They won't plan to leave Gaza.

https://www.npr.org/2025/03/24/nx-s1-5337989/israel-gaza-invasion-hamas

Israel has continually kicked Palestinians off their land abdbout of their homes. Israel continues to build out settlements in the West Bank. Israel doesn't care about international laws. Netanyahu has allied with the nutty ass religious right in Israel who is absolutely 100% in favor of all of this.

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Posted
2 hours ago, Schulz2.0 said:

They killed more than just Red Crescent aid workers. World Central Kitchen aid workers in a clearly marked vehicle. Hell, they killed an American citizen, Rachel Corrie, by running her over in an armored bulldozer because she was protesting the Israelis bulldozer houses in the West Bank.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/israel-draws-international-outrage-after-airstrikes-kills-7-aid-workers

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/mar/17/israel.usa

Wouldn’t bother. The guy you’re quoting has a fantastic history of parroting bullshit regarding this exact issue.

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Posted

In terms of continued American support, the state of Israel is playing a foolish short game.  They need bipartisan allies but have completely thrown in with America’s far right.  A generation from now, public and government support for Israel welfare is gone.  

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Posted

I think it's more than reasonable to infer from all of statsman's posts on the topic that he really wouldn't mind if the Palestinian people were completely eliminated, so long as the Israeli government pretended that it had reason to believe each person it killed was a terrorist. 

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I think it's more than reasonable to infer from all of statsman's posts on the topic that he really wouldn't mind if the Palestinian people were completely eliminated, so long as the Israeli government pretended that it had reason to believe each person it killed was a terrorist. 

…and this is why I am out and y’all can have your echo chambers all to yourselves, as you prefer. 

Edited by statsman
Posted
Just now, statsman said:

…and this is why I am out and y’all can have your echo chamber all to yourselves, as you prefer. 

Look man, when you defend the IDF bombing a World Central Kitchen convey and give credence to their "lol yeah, we totally thought they were Hamas, we swear!" bullshit, I'm not obligated to pretend that you're not who you appear to be. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, statsman said:

…and this is why I am out and y’all can have your echo chambers all to yourselves, as you prefer. 

If you ever posted a coherent argument that wasn't just straight up copy/pasted Israeli propaganda, a conversation could be had. You have no substantive response to any rebuttal aimed in your direction, and most of your interactions with the topic are drive by negging and laugh reacting at posts that dare suggest Palestinians are human beings.

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Posted
1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

Look man, when you defend the IDF bombing a World Central Kitchen convey and give credence to their "lol yeah, we totally thought they were Hamas, we swear!" bullshit, I'm not obligated to pretend that you're not who you appear to be. 

My complicated and likely incoherent feelings on the topic are well-documented in this thread.  But one thing I have been completely unable to reconcile is "we have a defense force capable of planning and pulling off the pager attack" and "we had no choice but to blow up that hospital full of innocent people."

Just doesn't pass the smell test, and this is coming from someone absolutely predisposed to take Israel's side.

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

My complicated and likely incoherent feelings on the topic are well-documented in this thread.  But one thing I have been completely unable to reconcile is "we have a defense force capable of planning and pulling off the pager attack" and "we had no choice but to blow up that hospital full of innocent people."

Just doesn't pass the smell test, and this is coming from someone absolutely predisposed to take Israel's side.

We've certainly had our disagreements here, but I think everything you have posted on this topic has 100% come from a position of empathy and my issue has always been with the posters that insist that the obviously over the top cruelty is a necessary evil, insist that Israel will "leave Gaza alone" after they "finish the job" (aka Final Solution posters), or do things like insist Israel is doing this for Judaism/Israel speak for Jews worldwide etc.

There's a lot of stuff like what you described here that just doesn't make any sense at all if you care to examine it past surface level. We know Israel is very willing and capable of executing targeted assassinations, they've done it many times to great effect, and I think most (if not all) of us have been supportive of doing that with Hamas targets. There has absolutely never been a reason to drop 2,000 pound bombs all over Gaza other than just wanting to destroy its infrastructure and cause as much suffering as possible. The same applies to, for example, Lebanon. There is no reason to flatten an entire Beirut suburb and kill literally thousands of people to kill one high value target.

It's literally just straight up terrorism and would absolutely be labeled as such if any actor that wasn't the US or Israel carried it out.

Edited by Brian Fantana
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Posted

Israel has for some time now failed to present a theory of how they plan to win. They don’t have one and at this point they have gone well past the vigorous kinetic response October 7 warranted.  That and the continued dirtbag stuff in the West Bank reveal that Netanyahu is just reveling in having an eternal war he can fight.

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Posted
31 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

That and the continued dirtbag stuff in the West Bank reveal that Netanyahu is just reveling in having an eternal war he can fight.

Yup. As long as the war is there to be fought he gains more power and can't/won't be held responsible for anything.

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Posted
Israel has for some time now failed to present a theory of how they plan to win. They don’t have one and at this point they have gone well past the vigorous kinetic response October 7 warranted.  That and the continued dirtbag stuff in the West Bank reveal that Netanyahu is just reveling in having an eternal war he can fight.

Thats a very good response. Want to cut and paste it until something changes.
Posted

Palestinian teenager who died in Israeli prison showed signs of starvation, medical report says

TEL AVIV, Israel (AP) — Starvation was likely the leading cause of death for a Palestinian teenager who died in an Israeli prison, according to an Israeli doctor who observed the autopsy.

Seventeen-year-old Walid Ahmad, who had been held for six months without being charged, suffered from extreme malnutrition, and also showed signs of inflammation of the colon and scabies, said a report written by Dr. Daniel Solomon, who watched the autopsy, conducted by Israeli experts, at the request of the boy’s family.

The Associated Press obtained a copy of Solomon’s report from the family. It did not conclude a cause of death, but said Ahmad was in a state of extreme weight loss and muscle wasting. It also noted that Ahmad had complained to the prison of inadequate food since at least December, citing reports from the prison medical clinic.

Ahmad died last month after collapsing in Megiddo Prison and striking his head, Palestinian officials said, citing eyewitness accounts from other prisoners. Israel’s prison service said a team was appointed to investigate Ahmad’s death and its findings would be sent to the authorized authorities.

The autopsy was conducted on March 27 at Israel’s Abu Kabir Forensic Institute, which has not released a report of its findings and did not respond to requests for comment. The Ahmad family’s lawyer, Nadia Daqqa, confirmed Solomon, a gastrointestinal surgeon, was granted permission to observe the autopsy by an Israeli civil court.

Widespread abuse in Israeli prisons, rights groups say
Rights groups have documented widespread abuse in Israeli detention facilities holding thousands of Palestinians who were rounded up after Hamas’ Oct. 7, 2023, attack ignited the war in the Gaza Strip. The Palestinian Authority says Israel is holding the bodies of 72 Palestinian prisoners who died in Israeli jails, including 61 who died since the beginning of the war. Israel often holds on to bodies of dead Palestinians, citing security grounds or for political leverage.

Conditions in Israeli prisons have worsened since the start of the war, former detainees have told the AP. They described beatings, severe overcrowding, insufficient medical care, scabies outbreaks and poor sanitary conditions.

Megiddo Prison, a maximum security facility where many Palestinian detainees, including teens, are held without charge, is regarded as one of the harshest, said Naji Abbas, head of the Prisoners and Detainees Department at Physicians for Human Rights Israel.

Israel’s prison service said it operates according to the law and all prisoners are given basic rights.

Ahmad’s lawyer, Firas al-Jabrini, said Israeli authorities denied his requests to visit his client in prison, but three prisoners held there told him Ahmad suffered from severe diarrhea, vomiting, headaches and dizziness before he died. They suspected it was caused by dirty water, as well as cheese and yogurt prison guards brought in the morning and that sat out all day while detainees were fasting for the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, the lawyer said.

Malnourished and frail
According to Dr. Solomon’s report the autopsy showed that Ahmed likely suffered from inflammation of the large intestine, a condition known as colitis that can cause frequent diarrhea and can in some cases contribute to death.

But medical experts said colitis usually doesn’t cause death in young patients and was likely exacerbated by severe malnutrition.

“He suffered from starvation that led to severe malnutrition and in combination with untreated colitis that caused dehydration and electrolyte levels disturbances in his blood which can cause heart rate abnormalities and death,” said Dr. Lina Qasem Hassan, the head of the board for Physicians for Human Rights Israel who reviewed the report at the request of the AP.

She said the findings indicated medical neglect, exacerbated by Ahmad’s inability to fight disease or infection because of how malnourished and frail he was.

Dr. Arne Stray-Pedersen, a professor of forensic medicine at the University of Oslo in Norway who was not involved in the autopsy, said the report suggests there was a period of prolonged malnutrition and sickness lasting at least a few weeks or months. “Based on the report, I interpret the underlying cause of death to be emaciation-wasting,” he said.

Scabies rashes were also noted on his legs and genital area, the report said. There was also air between his lungs that expanded into his neck and back, it said, which can cause infection. Air can come from small tears in the lungs, which can occur from severe vomiting or coughing, it said.

Ahmad’s family said he was a healthy high schooler who enjoyed playing soccer before he was taken into custody. His father, Khalid Ahmad, said his son sat through four brief court hearings by videoconference, and he noticed at one of them, in February, that his son appeared to be in poor health.

The family hasn’t yet received a death certificate from Israel, the elder Ahmad said Friday, and are hoping Dr. Solomon’s report will help bring his son’s body home.

“We will demand our son’s body for burial,” he said “What is happening in Israeli prisons is a real tragedy, as there is no value for life.”

  • Rage+1 2
  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

Sure would be nice if a single Democrat would speak out against people being disappeared/free speech being completely eroded in this country at the behest of a foreign country.

And people wonder why some folks were less than enthusiastic about voting for them.

Posted
Sure would be nice if a single Democrat would speak out against people being disappeared/free speech being completely eroded in this country at the behest of a foreign country.
And people wonder why some folks were less than enthusiastic about voting for them.

779a22a6950dcf2ff9f14834833615c4.jpg

I wonder why people blame democrats for republicans behavior. Weird. It’s almost like there’s a systematic campaign to undermine democracy using sophisticated and chaotic misinformation campaigns that include narratives that elected officials are all corrupt, that the adversaries to fascism are weak, and that both sides are to blame.

This, despite actions and rhetoric from nerdy, boring politicians, scientists and others who attempt to speak the truth. And, these truth-sayers are intimidated and ignored and shouted down.
Posted
25 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:


779a22a6950dcf2ff9f14834833615c4.jpg

I wonder why people blame democrats for republicans behavior. Weird. It’s almost like there’s a systematic campaign to undermine democracy using sophisticated and chaotic misinformation campaigns that include narratives that elected officials are all corrupt, that the adversaries to fascism are weak, and that both sides are to blame.

This, despite actions and rhetoric from nerdy, boring politicians, scientists and others who attempt to speak the truth. And, these truth-sayers are intimidated and ignored and shouted down.

They are not to blame for Republican behavior, but people are being black bagged, arrested and/or deported for anti-Israel sentiment as a trial run for doing the same to US citizens for any type of dissent. Democrats are largely silent about this when being outspoken is needed most. Only 14 Congressional Democrats signed the letter demanding the release of Mahmoud Khalil, the rest cowered and remained silent.

I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings, but when it comes to Israel, the majority of our elected officials (D or R) are corrupt, they receive a lot of money from pro-Israeli lobbies/NGOs and if they dare say a word against Israel, they risk being publicly labeled as antisemitic and worse, losing access to Israeli money.



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