Israel

[956 Worldwide 35602]

17 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

What I quoted from one of your posts:

Perhaps you can explain where I go wrong in my interpretation of "large conventional military response" while referring to this campaign.

It was not an option— given the scale of the attack and Hamas’ infrastructure and forces— to just do some targeted special forces raids and so-called “pinpoint” strikes.

 There was not really a choice from the Israeli government to send in regular troops for an on-the-ground presence and real fighting.  The enemy and the attack demanded it. 

That doesn’t mean it had to be this— bouncing the rubble, refusing to let in aid, and the near complete destruction it turned into. 

[RomaVicta 30644]

Thanks for clarifying.

[Anastasis 23718]

2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

And you are a poster who spews lies and propaganda today. A main difference being that you are doing it as a service to your country’s enemies. Fuck off Putin shill. Don’t thing it’s not obvious that you shifted to caring about this just because you were getting no traction on Ukraine .

pOuTInE tAlkInG pOiNts!!21!. 

 

Happy that you are able to get greater use of that one, but it is not in any way a reflection of a shift in my caring. Jesus Christ, we've be discussing Israel, settlements, and American policy wrt Israel on the political boards for ever. This thread is young and it is nearly 6 years old. I do realize that you just tuned in to the discussion though.  

['stache 22148]

2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

It was not an option— given the scale of the attack and Hamas’ infrastructure and forces— to just do some targeted special forces raids and so-called “pinpoint” strikes.

 There was not really a choice from the Israeli government to send in regular troops for an on-the-ground presence and real fighting.  The enemy and the attack demanded it. 

That doesn’t mean it had to be this— bouncing the rubble, refusing to let in aid, and the near complete destruction it turned into. 

If it wasn't clear, I wasn't advocating for only special forces targeted intelligence immediately after Oct. 7, and some scaled offensive was arguably justifiable on a reasonable scale. So I don't think we're that far off, though we'd probably disagree on what "reasonable scale" is while agreeing that what they've done is way beyond the line. But I also view this situation well before Oct. 7 and intelligence should have been better employed and probably could have prevented or reduced the scale of the Oct. 7 attack. I firmly believe that Bibi and friends knew that an attack was imminent and let it happen in accordance with their longstanding policy of letting terrorism occur to justify subjugation of 2M residents of Gaza. I don't think they expected it to be as bad as what happened, but they did little or nothing to prevent it from happening. Under that analysis, I think more targeted intelligence should have been employed the entire time and that they are not doing so for strategic reasons. Since it was worse than they anticipated, they switched gears to leveling Gaza entirely and removing all of its residents. I'm firmly convinced of that and I don't see any evidence that might dissuade me from that opinion.

Edited March 7 by 'stache

[elfenix 34783]

US will be building a temporary port in Gaza for humanitarian aid

https://www-cbsnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/biden-gaza-port-us-military-humanitarian-aid-state-of-the-union/?amp_js_v=0.1&amp_gsa=1#webview=1&cap=swipe

 

[Brian Fantana 6876]

Way too late, considering a large chunk of the population is in imminent danger of actual famine, but it's a start I guess.

[Anastasis 23718]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/03/06/us-weapons-israel-gaza/

The United States has quietly approved and delivered more than 100 separate foreign military sales to Israel since the Gaza war began Oct. 7, amounting to thousands of precision-guided munitions, small-diameter bombs, bunker busters, small arms and other lethal aid, U.S. officials told members of Congress in a recent classified briefing.

The triple-digit figure, which has not been previously reported, is the latest indication of Washington’s extensive involvement in the polarizing five-month conflict even as top U.S. officials and lawmakers increasingly express deep reservations about Israel’s military tactics in a campaign that has killed more than 30,000 people, according to Gaza’s health authorities.
…

What is clear is Washington’s deep involvement in the conflict, even if it isn’t the entity dropping the munitions or pulling the trigger, said Konyndyk, the former administration official.

“The U.S. cannot maintain that, on the one hand, Israel is a sovereign state that’s making its own decisions and we’re not going to second-guess them, and, on the other hand, transfer this level of armament in such a short time and somehow act as if we are not directly involved,” he said.

[statsman 5701]

CR question, I guess. I get confused when people talk about “occupation”. 

Who believes the Palestinian peoples in Gaza and the West Bank are governed by the state of Israel?

Who believes they are not?

 
I am holding the belief that although there are some Palestinians with official Israeli citizenship, that those without official Israeli citizenship are not governed by Israel, but by the PA (West Bank) or by Hamas (Gaza). 
 
Does anyone believe otherwise, and if so, can you explain? Is it tied into a belief that the state of Israel is not a legitimate state (I believe Israel is a legitimate state)?

I’m asking, because it feels like there is a debate/conversation going on where one side is assuming something is obvious and known, and I’m not sure it is. 
 
For example, does “occupation” mean occupying Gaza and WB, or occupying the whole Levant?

Edited March 9 by statsman

[bolverk 30376]

14 minutes ago, statsman said:

CR question, I guess. I get confused when people talk about “occupation”. 

Who believes the Palestinian peoples in Gaza and the West Bank are governed by the state of Israel?

Who believes they are not?

 
I am holding the belief that although there are some Palestinians with official Israeli citizenship, that those without official Israeli citizenship are not governed by Israel, but by the PA (West Bank) or by Hamas (Gaza). 
 
Does anyone believe otherwise, and if so, can you explain? Is it tied into a belief that the state of Israel is not a legitimate state (I believe Israel is a legitimate state)?

I’m asking, because it feels like there is a debate/conversation going on where one side is assuming something is obvious and known, and I’m not sure it is. 
 
For example, does “occupation” mean occupying Gaza and WB, or occupying the whole Levant?

It has nothing to do with Israel's legitimacy. Not to get into a game of semantics over the definition of "occupation," but even the Supreme Court OF ISRAEL considers the West Bank occupied territories.

The general point of departure of all parties – which is also our point of departure – is that Israel holds the area in belligerent occupation (occupatio bellica)......The authority of the military commander flows from the provisions of public international law regarding belligerent occupation. These rules are established principally in the Regulations Concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land, The Hague, 18 October 1907 [hereinafter – the Hague Regulations]. These regulations reflect customary international law. The military commander's authority is also anchored in IV Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War 1949.

 

The International Court of Justice does too:

The territories situated between the Green Line and the former eastern boundary of Palestine under the Mandate were occupied by Israel in 1967 during the armed conflict between Israel and Jordan. Under customary international law, the Court observes, these were therefore occupied territories in which Israel had the status of occupying Power. Subsequent events in these territories have done nothing to alter this situation. The Court concludes that all these territories (including East Jerusalem) remain occupied territories and that Israel has continued to have the status of occupying Power.

 

As does the US government.

Israel exercises varying degrees of legal, military, and economic control in the Occupied Territories. Israel has no constitution; however, the Basic Law on Human Dignity and Liberty provides for freedom of worship. The Israeli Government generally respects this right in practice in the Occupied Territories. However, Israel's strict closure policies frequently restricted the ability of Palestinians to reach places of worship and to practice their religions.

 

Every other international organization under the sun also considers them Occupied Territories.

Remember, the Palestinian Authority only "controls" 18% of the West Bank, but even so, those scattered enclaves (Area A) are subject to Israeli incursion. An additional 22% of land is jointly administered by the PA and Israel. The remainder, 60%, is completely controlled by Israel. 

And certainly, I don't see how anyone could argue that the Gaza Strip isn't currently occupied.

How is this even a fucking question?

[statsman 5701]

No, that helps a lot. Thanks. 
 
My confusion was over Gaza. I thought the whole point of Israel abandoning it in 2005 was to wash their hands of it, to drop responsibility, so that they couldn’t be accused of occupying it. 
 
I guess you’re right in that they are occupying it now, since they’ve declared war on Hamas. 

Edited March 9 by statsman

[bolverk 30376]

3 minutes ago, statsman said:

No, that helps a lot. Thanks. 
 
My confusion was over Gaza. I thought the whole point of Israel abandoning it in 2005 was to wash their hands of it, to drop responsibility, so that they couldn’t be accused of occupying it. 
 
I guess you’re right in that they are occupying it now, since they’ve declared war on Hamas. 

Before what's going on right now, it could be a legitimate discussion about control in Gaza. I think Israel oversaw nearly all the basic utilities (telecommunications, electricity, water, etc.). They also controlled every border crossing and Gaza's territorial waters. Of course, they didn't physically occupy it in a traditional military sense, but they did exert a great deal of authority over Gaza. So I guess "blockade" would've been the closest description of that state of affairs.

[statsman 5701]

Sure. To be fair to Israel, Hamas was importing missiles in, for the purpose of firing regularly at Israeli population centers, so I get why they’re inspecting everything going into Gaza. 

[bolverk 30376]

11 minutes ago, statsman said:

Sure. To be fair to Israel, Hamas was importing missiles in, for the purpose of firing regularly at Israeli population centers, so I get why they’re inspecting everything going into Gaza. 

I'm not questioning the rationale for the inspections or the blockade at all. But did you ever read that article I posted showing that most of their missiles were home-built and a very large portion (if not most) of the explosive ordnance came from unexploded Israeli bombs over the years?

[statsman 5701]

Yes, I read it in the WSJ when it was first reported. 

[Anastasis 23718]

2 hours ago, statsman said:

CR question, I guess. I get confused when people talk about “occupation”. 

You are in the right place. 

[Brian Fantana 6876]

8 hours ago, statsman said:

CR question, I guess. I get confused when people talk about “occupation”. 

Who believes the Palestinian peoples in Gaza and the West Bank are governed by the state of Israel?

Who believes they are not?

 

The idea that Israel "left Gaza" is a bullshit lie told to and by Western media outlets and politicians in order to provide cover for Israel to continue its stranglehold over the area and operate its open air prison without [enough] international outcry.

Yeah they were technically not militarily occupying it, but as should be obvious, that was just a temporary situation until they had a good enough excuse to roll back in there.

[statsman 5701]

1 hour ago, Brian Fantana said:

The idea that Israel "left Gaza" is a bullshit lie told to and by Western media outlets and politicians in order to provide cover for Israel to continue its stranglehold over the area and operate its open air prison without [enough] international outcry.

Yeah they were technically not militarily occupying it, but as should be obvious, that was just a temporary situation until they had a good enough excuse to roll back in there.

“A good enough excuse” being a euphemism for “an armed attack across the border on the civilian Israeli populace, taking hundreds of hostages with them”. 

[Brian Fantana 6876]

1 hour ago, statsman said:

“A good enough excuse” being a euphemism for “an armed attack across the border on the civilian Israeli populace, taking hundreds of hostages with them”. 

I'm not sure why you think it's a euphemism. It is literally the exact type of scenario Israel would require to roll into Gaza without immediately losing every remaining ally they have.

Since you still seem to be confused about how all of this works, I should remind who is in charge of the Israeli government. Perhaps you should educate yourself on Likud, Benjamin Netanyahu, and the various extremists that comprise his government. You should read about how Netanyahu's government purposefully props up Hamas because they need an organization like that to be in place for them to justify their normal level of brutality, much less a ground offensive like the current one.

Source: https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

Also, I assume you have somehow thus far evaded or ignored the reports that Israel obtained intel that laid out precisely the kind of attack that took place on Oct. 7th, and also ignored intel that Hamas was literally conducting training exercises in line with that exact plan.

Source: https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-obtained-ignored-hamas-document-laying-out-oct-7-attack-plan-report-alleges/

Now, keeping in mind that Netanyahu has a high chance of ending up in prison once he's no longer Prime Minister, can you think of a reason for he and his cronies to sit on his hands and not act on actionable intel of this kind?

Here's some more fun reading:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-is-trying-to-avoid-an-accounting-for-october-7-this-time-he-wont-escape/

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-771842

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2023-12-21/ty-article-opinion/.premium/netanyahu-was-paralyzed-during-hamas-attack-on-october-7/0000018c-8903-d60e-afdf-ed0f33870000

e: Because you're still running around in the DT thread calling this a war, I'm just going to assume you have decided to remain the piece of shit you've always been and just tell you to fuck off again, you fucking idiot.

Edited March 10 by Brian Fantana

[WhatTheBuck 28941]

15 hours ago, bolverk said:

Before what's going on right now, it could be a legitimate discussion about control in Gaza. I think Israel oversaw nearly all the basic utilities (telecommunications, electricity, water, etc.). They also controlled every border crossing and Gaza's territorial waters. Of course, they didn't physically occupy it in a traditional military sense, but they did exert a great deal of authority over Gaza. So I guess "blockade" would've been the closest description of that state of affairs.

Or siege. 

[RomaVicta 30644]

@statsman @Brian Fantana

 

Fontana names Gaza quite clearly. 

Statsman, evidently referring to the only proper noun in the exchange, lays the blame for attack on "them" as though he thinks he's writing about the same thing as Fonatana. He's not.

Gaza did not attack Israel. Hamas attacked Israelies in Israel from Gaza. 

If there is a euphemism in all of this, it's statsman's use of the word war to describe what Israel is subjecting the people of Gaza to. 

Please stop conflating Gaza with Hamas. You're just perpetuating the dishonest, twisted rationale for the annihiliation and displacement of an entire people.

Edited March 10 by RomaVicta

[InkaUtexas 26970]

Is this the right forum to discuss Egypt's blockade of Gaza? Just asking, because for me it is part of the issue that is overlooked.

[Brian Fantana 6876]

27 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Is this the right forum to discuss Egypt's blockade of Gaza? Just asking, because for me it is part of the issue that is overlooked.

It's not right to call it a blockade on Egypt's part. Egypt allows humanitarian aid through the Rafah crossing, etc, just not refugees.

It has repeatedly claimed it doesn't want to allow refugees through because doing so would give Israel an excuse to empty Gaza. They tried to push for people to leave through the crossing (again), but Egypt continues to refuse as doing so would threaten any long term prospect for Palestinian statehood as it's well known Israel would not allow any of them to return.

Israel has effectively herded the majority of the population of Gaza into Rafah, pushing them further and further south every time. It's very apparent they would like to push them all into Sinai. Egypt will not allow this to happen because A) they are not equipped to handle 2 million traumatized refugees, and B) everyone knows it would be a final act of ethnic cleansing and no Gazan would ever be allowed to return home.

[RomaVicta 30644]

I agree. Israel's leaders would love for the world to look at the Gaza displacement humanitarian crisis as Egypts fault for not inviting the refugees into their country. That's a nifty trick of moving focus from why there are refugees in the first place. 

Netanyahu has publicly repudiated Biden. He's daring us to act in certainty that we won't. I'm guessing Ben is counting partially on election year riskiness to help him.

The United States should not appear to be anyone's lapdog. Biden has done more than enough for Israel. Get our name off of this slaughter.

[Brian Fantana 6876]

2 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I agree. Israel's leaders would love for the world to look at the Gaza displacement humanitarian crisis as Egypts fault for not inviting the refugees into their country. That's a nifty trick of moving focus from why there are refugees in the first place.

 

It's also a line that has been dutifully parroted in this thread multiple times, as if Egypt won't take them because they're too smelly and dangerous, and not because Israel is trying to force mass displacement of millions into their hands.

[InkaUtexas 26970]

37 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

It's not right to call it a blockade on Egypt's part. Egypt allows humanitarian aid through the Rafah crossing, etc, just not refugees.

It has repeatedly claimed it doesn't want to allow refugees through because doing so would give Israel an excuse to empty Gaza. They tried to push for people to leave through the crossing (again), but Egypt continues to refuse as doing so would threaten any long term prospect for Palestinian statehood as it's well known Israel would not allow any of them to return.

Israel has effectively herded the majority of the population of Gaza into Rafah, pushing them further and further south every time. It's very apparent they would like to push them all into Sinai. Egypt will not allow this to happen because A) they are not equipped to handle 2 million traumatized refugees, and B) everyone knows it would be a final act of ethnic cleansing and no Gazan would ever be allowed to return home.

Don't agree. Up until October 7 Israel had open crossings, workers going back and forth. Hamas, and their ties with the Muslim Brotherhood is something Egypt has always watched very closely. There are very few day workers going south. Agree Egypt should not have to take them all, they are building a wall on the southern border.

[InkaUtexas 26970]

7 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

It's also a line that has been dutifully parroted in this thread multiple times, as if Egypt won't take them because they're too smelly and dangerous, and not because Israel is trying to force mass displacement of millions into their hands.

Sir, they won't take them. My interpreter, for a large firm based in Dubai, had a bad ass Palestinian working with us. Both parents were physicians in good clinics in Dubai. It took them over 20 years to secure residency so they could rent, not buy, their own apartment. The Emiratis kept them in refugee status and who ever had their employment visa provided housing. Kid spoke fluent Arabic, English and French. Pretty damn good Turkish. He knew the city and could get anything done. But take him to a meeting and the officials at Dubai Humanitarian City would look down on him.

[RomaVicta 30644]

Inka, I still think your observations, which I trust, are sideshows at best regarding the bloodshed in Gaza.

Perhaps I'm missing something. I'm not standing up for the virtue of Egypt or any other MidEast country, but other cases of discrimination or ill-treatment of the Palestinians seem like small potatoes when another entity is trying to displace them or erase them altogether.

[Brisketexan 107040]

3 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Inka, I still think your observations, which I trust, are sideshows at best regarding the bloodshed in Gaza.

Perhaps I'm missing something. I'm not standing up for the virtue of Egypt or any other MidEast country, but other cases of discrimination or ill-treatment of the Palestinians seem like small potatoes when another entity is trying to displace them or erase them altogether.

Yes and no.  Many of the states and such that are loudly championing the Palestinian cause have spent the past decades doing exactly what the Netanyahu government has done: used the Palestinian people as a sacrificial lamb to shore up their domestic power.  The Palestinian people have been a VERY useful foil for many Arab/Persian states to use to distract their people domestically, meaning they have had a vested interest in keeping the conflict going.  The Palestinian people have been used and abused from most every side since 1948.  Bibi's regime gets no pass here, but neither should the Arab/Persian states that have happily strung the Palestinians along for their own selfish purposes.

[RomaVicta 30644]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Yes and no.  Many of the states and such that are loudly championing the Palestinian cause have spent the past decades doing exactly what the Netanyahu government has done: used the Palestinian people as a sacrificial lamb to shore up their domestic power.  The Palestinian people have been a VERY useful foil for many Arab/Persian states to use to distract their people domestically, meaning they have had a vested interest in keeping the conflict going.  The Palestinian people have been used and abused from most every side since 1948.  Bibi's regime gets no pass here, but neither should the Arab/Persian states that have happily strung the Palestinians along for their own selfish purposes.

That's my understanding as well. I think Jordan was left holding the bag for awhile hosting huge refugee camps, but they finally ran the Palestinians out. I'm sure you would guess that I am no champion of the autocracies that surround Israel. They did try to drive Israel into the sea.

Now that I think of it, my feeling about what is happening in Gaza is akin to what I felt about the Arab attacks on Israel. Each were established entities in places where they were not wanted. I think Palestine's historical claim is stronger, but that doesn't really matter much now. Neither deserve destruction.

My anger is with the destroyers in all cases. My fury is keenest when my country supports something that is plain wrong and deadly. It was pretty much our modus in Latin America. I'd like for us to be the good for the first time in a long time.

[Brian Fantana 6876]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Yes and no.  Many of the states and such that are loudly championing the Palestinian cause have spent the past decades doing exactly what the Netanyahu government has done: used the Palestinian people as a sacrificial lamb to shore up their domestic power.  The Palestinian people have been a VERY useful foil for many Arab/Persian states to use to distract their people domestically, meaning they have had a vested interest in keeping the conflict going.  The Palestinian people have been used and abused from most every side since 1948.  Bibi's regime gets no pass here, but neither should the Arab/Persian states that have happily strung the Palestinians along for their own selfish purposes.

I agree, but on that same point, Egypt has a very legitimate complaint about not being able to handle that many refugees, not to mention their security concerns because of extreme elements within the Gazan populace.

[InkaUtexas 26970]

1 hour ago, RomaVicta said:

Inka, I still think your observations, which I trust, are sideshows at best regarding the bloodshed in Gaza.

Perhaps I'm missing something. I'm not standing up for the virtue of Egypt or any other MidEast country, but other cases of discrimination or ill-treatment of the Palestinians seem like small potatoes when another entity is trying to displace them or erase them altogether.

Gotta ask why did they run them out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September

I am 100% against how Israel is working this. I hate the settlements and would stop all military aid and sales (two different things) until the settlements stop. But I also spent a long time, 7 years, working in the Middle East. I saw how they are treated within Arab Nations. @Brisketexan said, they are a tool for these nations that need something to keep the population's mind on while they live in luxury. Egypt is a bit different. Hamas was an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood which continues to do some horrific shit in Egypt.

I do not speak good arabic, but you can tell from the mosques, government controlled, when they want anger on the streets.

[InkaUtexas 26970]

48 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

I agree, but on that same point, Egypt has a very legitimate complaint about not being able to handle that many refugees, not to mention their security concerns because of extreme elements within the Gazan populace.

Yes they can. The UN would fucking love it. Should they? No. And concerning the extreme elements, well there lies the problem.

I fear we will see another exile from the Holy Land at some point.

[Brian Fantana 6876]

The complete and utter Zionist meltdown over Jonathan Glazer certainly is something. And that something is pathetic.

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1549]

15 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

It's not right to call it a blockade on Egypt's part. Egypt allows humanitarian aid through the Rafah crossing, etc, just not refugees.

It has repeatedly claimed it doesn't want to allow refugees through because doing so would give Israel an excuse to empty Gaza. They tried to push for people to leave through the crossing (again), but Egypt continues to refuse as doing so would threaten any long term prospect for Palestinian statehood as it's well known Israel would not allow any of them to return.

Israel has effectively herded the majority of the population of Gaza into Rafah, pushing them further and further south every time. It's very apparent they would like to push them all into Sinai. Egypt will not allow this to happen because A) they are not equipped to handle 2 million traumatized refugees, and B) everyone knows it would be a final act of ethnic cleansing and no Gazan would ever be allowed to return home.

the US should airlift all Gazans to Europe and US - as was done with 124,000 Afghans in 18 days.  Optics of "ethnic cleansing" and the bogus idea of a Palestinian state (Israel will never allow it), this is the most humane outcome. 

[Brian Fantana 6876]

[Anastasis 23718]

Should have given Germany to the zionists. 

[Anastasis 23718]

Oh, sorry that would actually require europeans to atone for their own sins. Silly me.  

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1549]

On 3/11/2024 at 10:23 AM, Brisketexan said:

Yes and no.  Many of the states and such that are loudly championing the Palestinian cause have spent the past decades doing exactly what the Netanyahu government has done: used the Palestinian people as a sacrificial lamb to shore up their domestic power.  The Palestinian people have been a VERY useful foil for many Arab/Persian states to use to distract their people domestically, meaning they have had a vested interest in keeping the conflict going.  The Palestinian people have been used and abused from most every side since 1948.  Bibi's regime gets no pass here, but neither should the Arab/Persian states that have happily strung the Palestinians along for their own selfish purposes.

aside from Syria, no Arab nation has been using the Palestinian issue for decades. Many have secretly openly been dealing with Israel for years in business and undercover diplomacy. The quoted stance ended or began withering away in the 1970s/80s. Even Syria has more important issues like massacring 1 million of themselves, the Palestinian issue is a distant memory. 

[chainsaw 10312]

Asylum is the least we could do. It still doesn't compensate or come close to compensating for the trauma, the loss of life, the starvation and suffering. Doesn't even make up for the overnight dispossession of all the property owned in Gaza City.

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1549]

3 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Asylum is the least we could do. It still doesn't compensate or come close to compensating for the trauma, the loss of life, the starvation and suffering. Doesn't even make up for the overnight dispossession of all the property owned in Gaza City.

exactly, life in Gaza is OVER.  Israel has purposely target all institutions - bakeries, schools, water purification systems (even murdering 20 people waiting at a water truck), every damn thing needed to sustain life has been destroyed. Not to mention 2/3 of all housing. No water, food, electricity. Life is over, simply evacuate them to about a dozen western nation, we won't feel it and israel will be overjoyed to get rid of 2 million Arabs - the Arab politicians themselves will complain but secretly the Gazans will be happy to get the golden ticket to Europe or US. 

[chainsaw 10312]

Just now, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

exactly, life in Gaza is OVER.  Israel has purposely target all institutions - bakeries, schools, water purification systems (even murdering 20 people waiting at a water truck), every damn thing needed to sustain life has been destroyed. Not to mention 2/3 of all housing. No water, food, electricity. Life is over, simply evacuate them to about a dozen western nation, we won't feel it and israel will be overjoyed to get rid of 2 million Arabs - the Arab politicians themselves will complain but secretly the Gazans will be happy to get the golden ticket to Europe or US. 

They need to be resettled somewhere safe, given money (the equivalent of a civil judgment for wrongful death and having all their homes and cars stolen), and the bill should be paid by Israel.

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1549]

3 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

They need to be resettled somewhere safe, given money (the equivalent of a civil judgment for wrongful death and having all their homes and cars stolen), and the bill should be paid by Israel.

Israel isn't paying the Arabs a dime.  Survey says 68% of Israelis don't even want humanitarian aid trucks to go into Gaza. Their attitude is kill/starve the Arabs, each is a terrorist in their bloodthirsty psychotic revenge motive. Gazans need to gtfo asap, before the IDF murders another 30,000.

[Satchel 6983]

Senator Van Hollen says the Biden administration could pressure Israel to let more aid through, and they could do it by invoking a law called the Humanitarian Aid Corridor…

…This law is very straightforward. It says the United States shall not provide military assistance to any country if that country is prohibiting or otherwise restricting, directly or indirectly, the transport and delivery of U.S. assistance into an area.

https://www.npr.org/2024/03/11/1237665822/maryland-sen-van-hollen-says-biden-could-pressure-israel-to-let-more-aid-through

[Brian Fantana 6876]

2 hours ago, chainsaw said:

Asylum is the least we could do. It still doesn't compensate or come close to compensating for the trauma, the loss of life, the starvation and suffering. Doesn't even make up for the overnight dispossession of all the property owned in Gaza City.

 

2 hours ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

exactly, life in Gaza is OVER.  Israel has purposely target all institutions - bakeries, schools, water purification systems (even murdering 20 people waiting at a water truck), every damn thing needed to sustain life has been destroyed. Not to mention 2/3 of all housing. No water, food, electricity. Life is over, simply evacuate them to about a dozen western nation, we won't feel it and israel will be overjoyed to get rid of 2 million Arabs - the Arab politicians themselves will complain but secretly the Gazans will be happy to get the golden ticket to Europe or US. 

 

2 hours ago, chainsaw said:

They need to be resettled somewhere safe, given money (the equivalent of a civil judgment for wrongful death and having all their homes and cars stolen), and the bill should be paid by Israel.

 

1 hour ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

Israel isn't paying the Arabs a dime.  Survey says 68% of Israelis don't even want humanitarian aid trucks to go into Gaza. Their attitude is kill/starve the Arabs, each is a terrorist in their bloodthirsty psychotic revenge motive. Gazans need to gtfo asap, before the IDF murders another 30,000.

Surely only good will come from giving the Israeli extremists exactly what they want.

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1549]

3 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

 

 

 

Surely only good will come from giving the Israeli extremists exactly what they want.

the Israeli extremists already have the American Superpower at their behest. There's nothing to be lost anymore, the Gazans have been smashed into ashes and the ashes have been pounded into powder and the powder has been further atomized. They are below zero and going to die by the thousands.  Get them out of hell , no time to play abstract games. 

[Satchel 6983]

Schumer is dragging Bibi to hell and back. Things are about to be on and poppin!

https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2024/03/14/congress/schumer-takes-on-netanyahu-government-00146991

Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer is calling for new elections in Israel, describing Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's government as an "obstacle to peace" amid his country's ongoing war in Gaza.

Schumer, the highest-ranking Jewish official in U.S. history, urged Israel to "do better," citing the estimated tens of thousands of Palestinian civilian casualties caused by the Netanyahu government's military offensive aimed at neutralizing the terrorist group Hamas.

[Brian Fantana 6876]

Need someone to run in here and press the antisemitism button, it's been too long.

[WhatTheBuck 28941]

23 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Need someone to run in here and press the antisemitism button, it's been too long.

I’d be kind of surprised if someone hasn’t accused Schumer of that already. Has the ADL weighed in yet?

[Brian Fantana 6876]

I would say it's incredible that they think anyone would fall for this, but the reality is plenty of people do fall for it.

[statsman 5701]

Here’s a question, moved from DT thread-

Hamas’ military is funded by Iran. Shortly after 10-7, the WSJ reported that Iran helped plan 10-7. What was Iran’s plan? Was it tied into the other ME activities? Was it a favor to their Russian allies, to take attention and pressure from them?

 Also- was Hamas expecting Hezbollah to join in, from the north? I know Israel has been wary of Hezbollah this whole time, keeping forces in place near them.  
 
In conclusion, what exactly was the plan?