Israel

[David Dennison 18608]

59 minutes ago, JBJ said:

What claim do the Palestinians have to Israel proper?  They never controlled it as a state, they didn't settle it, they didn't develop it.

Then what is the right of return all about?

[JBJ 3647]

1 hour ago, Orca of Peace said:

the recanting of 500-1000 years ago is very amusing to me as if that matter more than more recent times. Oh look, the Jews developed some farmland , therefore all the Euro Jews are entitled to it also and have their own state over an Arab majority peasant class.  What claims do Arabs have over anything? There was never a Jordan, Iraq, Kuwait, Syria, Saudi, Algeria etc. Oh, they just lived there forever under the Romans, Turks, Brits and others. What most people don't realize is that this entire conflict is about Arab sovereignty alone and European opinions are meaningless. 

1) That's 20th century history.  Tel Aviv is younger than Houston and Dallas by 60 years.

 

2) I think you misunderstand my position.

Israel proper is majority Jewish, settled and developed by Jews under Ottoman rule.  I'm not supportive of Palestinian aggression towards these areas.  I don't think Palestinians have a claim of it.

Palestenian Arabs are majorities in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.  I'm not supportive of the Israeli occupation in these areas.  I don't think Israel has a claim to them.

This area was offered an India-style restructuring where each culture could have state sovereignty over the areas that they were dominant.  As messy as things got with India, that solution still makes the most sense to me. The Palestinians rejected the idea - wanting control of the Jewish areas as well.  The ensuing conflicts gave cover for other nations to snatch up Palestinian areas.  Even when they were occupied by others, the Palestinian concern has been the Jewish territory.  The Palestinians deserve sympathy, but they are not good actors, and their primary goal is not autonomy.

The Jews did take sovereignty over what was given to them by the Ottomans and then British empire / U.N. (plus some).  In subsequent wars they have occupied lands that they don't have a similar claim to (even more plus some).  They are surrounded by hostile nations that would like to be existential threats to Israel.  This gives them a lot of cover for an egregious foreign policy. The Jews deserve sympathy, but they are not good actors.

 

As for Jerusalem, who the fuck knows.  It should probably be a city-state

Edited May 25, 2018 by JBJ

[Orca of Peace 109]

17 minutes ago, JBJ said:

1) That's 20th century history.  Tel Aviv is younger than Houston and Dallas by 60 years.

 

2) I think you misunderstand my position.

Israel proper is majority Jewish, settled and developed by Jews under Ottoman rule.  I'm not supportive of Palestinian aggression towards these areas.  I don't think Palestinians have a claim of it.

Palestenian Arabs are majorities in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.  I'm not supportive of the Israeli occupation in these areas.  I don't think Israel has a claim to them.

This area was offered an India-style restructuring where each culture could have state sovereignty over the areas that they were dominant.  As messy as things got with India, that solution still makes the most sense to me. The Palestinians rejected the idea - wanting control of the Jewish areas as well.  The ensuing conflicts gave cover for other nations to snatch up Palestinian areas.  Even when they were occupied by others, the Palestinian concern has been the Jewish territory.  The Palestinians deserve sympathy, but they are not good actors, and their primary goal is not autonomy.

The Jews did take sovereignty over what was given to them by the Ottomans and then British empires.  In subsequent wars they have occupied lands that they don't have a similar claim to.  They are surrounded by hostile nations that would like to be existential threats to Israel.  This gives them a lot of cover for an egregious foreign policy. The Jews deserve sympathy, but they are not good actors.

 

As for Jerusalem, who the fuck knows.  It should probably be a city-state

the Ottomans and Brits were themselves occupiers and usurped the will of the Arab natives, so that a wrong starting point.  The so called "Jewish Areas" were contrived results of the mentioned colonialized areas which actually were full of hundreds of thousands of Arabs , who still existed, until the Euro Jewry masses influx.  So you see the Arabs were not wrong in their wars. 

Your recanting of ancient history with the Crusaders has no value. Neither does the 'achievement test', popular in western supremacist ideology, that they are low class peasants therefore we get to do whatever we want to them.  If that were the case then no Arab has any right to any Arab majority area whatsoever since there were never any Arab states and they are all dumb goat herders anyway! We are so much better so we can do whatever we want.  Even the Jewish area of Palestine was based on this Eurocentric concept.

fast forward to today, Israel is not surrounded by hostile enemies , a big myth. There is no existential threat to them, myth #2. They are totally dominant in all aspects . The Arab nations in fact are their servants, mainly fueled by the Iran-Saudi split.  israel is in total control of everything but makes excuses that fools believe, that somehow they are the eternal victim. Israel should simply leave the west bank, or not then annex it. Neither will happen because the status quo is hugely beneficial at no cost to them which they trick everyone with lies and hyperbole. 

[JBJ 3647]

39 minutes ago, Orca of Peace said:

the Ottomans and Brits were themselves occupiers and usurped the will of the Arab natives, so that a wrong starting point.  The so called "Jewish Areas" were contrived results of the mentioned colonialized areas which actually were full of hundreds of thousands of Arabs , who still existed, until the Euro Jewry masses influx.  So you see the Arabs were not wrong in their wars. 

Your recanting of ancient history with the Crusaders has no value. Neither does the 'achievement test', popular in western supremacist ideology, that they are low class peasants therefore we get to do whatever we want to them.  If that were the case then no Arab has any right to any Arab majority area whatsoever since there were never any Arab states and they are all dumb goat herders anyway! We are so much better so we can do whatever we want.  Even the Jewish area of Palestine was based on this Eurocentric concept.

fast forward to today, Israel is not surrounded by hostile enemies , a big myth. There is no existential threat to them, myth #2. They are totally dominant in all aspects . The Arab nations in fact are their servants, mainly fueled by the Iran-Saudi split.  israel is in total control of everything but makes excuses that fools believe, that somehow they are the eternal victim. Israel should simply leave the west bank, or not then annex it. Neither will happen because the status quo is hugely beneficial at no cost to them which they trick everyone with lies and hyperbole. 

1) The only reason I explained the history to you is because you think that the Palestinian Arabs have a historical claim to Israel.  There were hundreds of thousands of Arabs in Ottoman Palestine.  Most were in what is now modern West Bank and Jordan.  The Negev was sparsely populated (by Bedouins) and north Israel was sparsely populated (by the Druze).

2) Strawman. I never made any achievement test.  If anything my test is what makes an area most closely self-autonomous, but I'm disputing your idea that the Palestinians have a claim to the area, which is premised on a false history.

3) Another strawman, I said "They are surrounded by hostile nations that would like to be existential threats to Israel.  This gives them [Israel] a lot of cover for an egregious foreign policy."

Edited May 25, 2018 by JBJ

[Orca of Peace 109]

1. maybe you forgot about the hundreds of thousands of Pals who became refugees in Lebanon and the Gaza strip (2/3 of Gazans are actually from about 30 minutes north of Gaza). The northern Israel of today was heavily populated by Arabs who dispersed into the Lebanese refugee camps and had a stronghold in southern lebanon until the 1982 war. So your facts are incorrect which is not surprising. 

2. Yes, the achievement test was made. If Pals have a false history on the area then Iraqi Arabs also have a false history to "Iraq" which is a made up country and the people were peasants mostly who never had autonomy for the same 500 years at least. 

3. not sure if you finished your thought. Israel today is a superpower unrivaled in the world where IMO only the US could defeat them. There is no existential threat in the least.

 

[David Dennison 18608]

1 hour ago, Orca of Peace said:

1. maybe you forgot about the hundreds of thousands of Pals who became refugees in Lebanon and the Gaza strip (2/3 of Gazans are actually from about 30 minutes north of Gaza). The northern Israel of today was heavily populated by Arabs who dispersed into the Lebanese refugee camps and had a stronghold in southern lebanon until the 1982 war. So your facts are incorrect which is not surprising. 

2. Yes, the achievement test was made. If Pals have a false history on the area then Iraqi Arabs also have a false history to "Iraq" which is a made up country and the people were peasants mostly who never had autonomy for the same 500 years at least. 

3. not sure if you finished your thought. Israel today is a superpower unrivaled in the world where IMO only the US could defeat them. There is no existential threat in the least.

 

Then they no longer need our money. That's a few billion dollars that can be spent on other things.

[JBJ 3647]

1 hour ago, Orca of Peace said:

1. maybe you forgot about the hundreds of thousands of Pals who became refugees in Lebanon and the Gaza strip (2/3 of Gazans are actually from about 30 minutes north of Gaza). The northern Israel of today was heavily populated by Arabs who dispersed into the Lebanese refugee camps and had a stronghold in southern lebanon until the 1982 war. So your facts are incorrect which is not surprising. 

2. Yes, the achievement test was made. If Pals have a false history on the area then Iraqi Arabs also have a false history to "Iraq" which is a made up country and the people were peasants mostly who never had autonomy for the same 500 years at least. 

3. not sure if you finished your thought. Israel today is a superpower unrivaled in the world where IMO only the US could defeat them. There is no existential threat in the least.

Palestinian areas (in Syria, West Bank, Gaza, Jordan, etc.), I've consistently said Israel had no claim to and that the Palestinians did.  Israel has been in Palestinian land back since the Brtitish left. And that area continues to grow. I'm not disputing that.

What I'm saying is that the Palestinian Arabs that the PLO represents have never been the dominant culture in the areas of Israel designated to Jews. They weren't there under Egypt, the Ottomans, nor the British. It's not that their history isn't valid.  It's that they have no history.  

Iraqi Arabs invaded Persia and have been there since.  That's a real history.

 

I'm admittedly a terrible explaner so here's an analogy:

The French land in Florida they settle among the Calusa and Als tribes.  They build farms and start a society.  Over 50 years the French build up a wealthy society.  Spain conquers all of Florida and decides to divide up the land into French and Native states.  The Timucua tribe claims that the French land is native land and that the French don't have a claim to it.  The Als and Calusa tribe support a French state.

Is the Timmucua claim to French land valid?

Edited May 25, 2018 by JBJ

[Mojo Hand 4580]

4 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Then what is the right of return all about?

Eliminating Israel. 

[Orca of Peace 109]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

Then they no longer need our money. That's a few billion dollars that can be spent on other things.

true, it's all about greed and deception now. 

[Orca of Peace 109]

1 hour ago, JBJ said:

Palestinian areas (in Syria, West Bank, Gaza, Jordan, etc.), I've consistently said Israel had no claim to and that the Palestinians did.  Israel has been in Palestinian land back since the Brtitish left. And that area continues to grow. I'm not disputing that.

What I'm saying is that the Palestinian Arabs that the PLO represents have never been the dominant culture in the areas of Israel designated to Jews. They weren't there under Egypt, the Ottomans, nor the British. It's not that their history isn't valid.  It's that they have no history.  

Iraqi Arabs invaded Persia and have been there since.  That's a real history.

 

I'm admittedly a terrible explaner so here's an analogy:

The French land in Florida they settle among the Calusa and Als tribes.  They build farms and start a society.  Over 50 years the French build up a wealthy society.  Spain conquers all of Florida and decides to divide up the land into French and Native states.  The Timucua tribe claims that the French land is native land and that the French don't have a claim to it.  The Als and Calusa tribe support a French state.

Is the Timmucua claim to French land valid?

suppose the Euro Jews never migrated to this "Palestine" area and today 2018 the place had 8 or 9 million Arabs and a few hundred thousand Jews who were there because grandpa was sent there to farm the land by the Turks in 1912. So, the Arabs don't really belong there right? No Arab Israeli wars, no refugees, no PLO, no Hamas and most importantly, no Netanyahu

[David Dennison 18608]

1 hour ago, Mojo Hand said:

Eliminating Israel. 

No wonder Israel is terrified.

[ChickenSandwich 9797]

10 hours ago, David Dennison said:

No wonder Israel is terrified.

You crave the Jew blood. That hate’s gonna burn you up. And the countries surrounding them are just as likely to destroy themselves or each other before getting around to Israel. 

Edited May 26, 2018 by ChickenSandwich

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

58 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

You crave the Jew blood. That hate’s gonna burn you up. And the countries surrounding them are just as likely to destroy themselves or each other before getting around to Israel. 

I'd believe Israel could fuck up all of the Arab states if they wanted to, and theres nothing anyone of them could do to stop it without America or maybe Russia as their protector.

[TxEx99 31]

I gotta say for all the ranting about Israel Onboard 2.0 is right.  If Israel wanted to glass the Palestinian territory nobody could stop them.  After the fact they'd be politically ostracized but they'd for damn sure have no issues with the other countries around them.  Israel has shown a hell of a lot of restraint and they've defacto won.  Everything else is incoherent yelling and theater by those who really have no better options available to them.  

[GHOSTUSER 361]

On 5/24/2018 at 9:59 AM, Johnny Sack said:

Again, Jordan attacked Israel in 1967.  Israel took the West Bank from them after beating them in a war they started.

You’re obviously a smart guy since you work for a prestigious, white shoe law firm in Houston. However, you are coming off as a windbag and an idiot in your posts in this thread with your no-brainer one-liners that add nothing to the conversation and using racist language referring to the Arabs as “goat-fuckers”. I say this as someone who is much more sympathetic to the Israeli and Jewish side of things. Basically, act and post like you have a brain.

[GHOSTUSER 361]

hpslugga: as a fellow history nerd, I appreciate your posts. I read each one through and through unlike pods

Edited May 26, 2018 by Iconoclast Texan

[GHOSTUSER 361]

On 5/24/2018 at 6:35 PM, realgreggym said:

From 1948 to 1967, the Arab could care less about the west bank or Jerusalem. Then the Israelis took over after winning in battle and thats when the Arabs started to care. Its like a little kid playing with a toy and all of a sudden his brother who has never shown interest in the toy now wants to play with it.

If greggym is back, we need to find wherever H34TX is and have them duke it out like the old days on shaggy. 

[realgreggym 832]

1 hour ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

If greggym is back, we need to find wherever H34TX is and have them duke it out like the old days on shaggy. 

Lets stick to talking about the Texans. I really don't enjoy beating up on anyone unless its friendo and no one deserved it more than he did.

[David Dennison 18608]

3 hours ago, TxEx99 said:

I gotta say for all the ranting about Israel Onboard 2.0 is right.  If Israel wanted to glass the Palestinian territory nobody could stop them.  After the fact they'd be politically ostracized but they'd for damn sure have no issues with the other countries around them.  Israel has shown a hell of a lot of restraint and they've defacto won.  Everything else is incoherent yelling and theater by those who really have no better options available to them.  

They are already politically ostracized.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Simple question for you Likudnik types: why does some kid from Meyerland or Brooklyn have a "right of return" to a country he's never been to, nor his parents, nor any of his ancestors going back to maybe 100 AD, when Palestinians whose families have been living in that country for centuries and centuries do not?

How is that some deed in the Bible overrules more recent deeds? 

I don't give a shit if there never was a country of Palestine. I do know that there are many, many people who call themselves Palestinian. And many, many of those people were expelled from their homeland and are not allowed to return, while the descendants of people who left that same land thousands of years ago are not just encouraged to "return," but offered incentives to do so. 

So: people born and raised there are banned from returning and have had their land confiscated. People who've never been there are entitled to those same lands because Jehovah said so 4000 years ago. Makes perfect sense. 

 

[Orca of Peace 109]

On 5/25/2018 at 8:18 PM, David Dennison said:

No wonder Israel is terrified.

no reason to be, they are utterly powerful. If anyone disputes their complete domination of the scene, they are very out of touch with reality. 

[Orca of Peace 109]

some proof that Israel is backing the rebels and possibly Al - Qaeda in Syria .  The rebels had time, while fighting a very dangerous war, to dig up dozens of Palestinian graves in search of 3 Israel IDF soldier bodies.  Meaning the rebels are under the control or influence of Israeli Mossad in exchange for weapons and support. 

the timeline of the story (as i understand it):  anti-Assad Insurgents (including Al Qaeda) held the Pal refugee camp, then captured by Islamic State, then now captured by Syrian pro Assad forces who have the PFLP-GC (a leftist group) under their umbrella. 

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/official-syrian-militants-dug-graves-find-israelis-55469565

Insurgents excavated graves in a cemetery in a refugee camp in the Syrian capital Damascus in search of the remains of three Israeli soldiers who have been missing since Israel's invasion of Lebanon 36 years ago, a Syria-based Palestinian official said.

Anwar Raja of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command said the bodies of the three Israeli soldiers who have been missing since a 1982 battle in Lebanon were transferred to Syria after the incident.

Israel says that on June 11, 1982, five of its soldiers went missing in a battle near the Lebanese village of Sultan Yacoub close to the Syrian border. Several years later, two of the missing soldiers were returned alive to Israel in prisoner exchanges with Syria and the PFLP-GC. The fate of the remaining three is still unknown.

Last week, Syrian troops regained control of the Palestinian refugee camp of Yarmouk from members of the Islamic State group after a monthlong battle. Before IS took the camp, several insurgent groups had a presence there including al-Qaida-linked gunmen.

Raja said the insurgents' aim was to find the remains of the soldiers and transfer them to Israel. The refugee camp is home to the old Martyr's Cemetery where Palestinian fighters and commanders are buried. He said all tombs in the cemetery were excavated.

Raja added that Syrian security forces, while examining the belongings of gunmen being transported to northern Syria earlier this month, arrested a woman and confiscated two bags of soil she was carrying, apparently from the cemetery, and sent them to authorities for DNA analysis.

"This demonstrates that (the insurgents) are keen to determine whether the Israeli soldiers were buried in this cemetery," he said, denying reports that the bodies were ever buried in it.

The department in charge of Israelis missing in action, or MIA, in the Israeli prime minister's office refused to comment.

Rajas said IS and other insurgents dug up the past years' graves in search of the remains.

[zork 629]

4 minutes ago, Orca of Peace said:

no reason to be, they are utterly powerful. If anyone disputes their complete domination of the scene, they are very out of touch with reality. 

Which makes the latest gambit by Hamas to lead the people into the fenced area even more evil/sinister/uncaring about the people they were elected to lead/protect.  Was a news blip about Israeli killing of people attempting to break through a border fence worth it?  

[Orca of Peace 109]

1 minute ago, zork said:

Which makes the latest gambit by Hamas to lead the people into the fenced area even more evil/sinister/uncaring about the people they were elected to lead/protect.  Was a news blip about Israeli killing of people attempting to break through a border fence worth it?  

it's a news blip to people who don't have a grip on reality and downplay the Arab side, if the extent of carnage was shown day and night on TV for weeks, as it was in the Arab world, it' would not be a news blip.

[zork 629]

1 minute ago, Orca of Peace said:

it's a news blip to people who don't have a grip on reality and downplay the Arab side, if the extent of carnage was shown day and night on TV for weeks, as it was in the Arab world, it' would not be a news blip.

Fair enough.  Does that make it right to storm the fence given the consequences that were warned from Israel if they did it?  Why would they allow children to enter the nogo area?

[David Dennison 18608]

29 minutes ago, Orca of Peace said:

no reason to be, they are utterly powerful. If anyone disputes their complete domination of the scene, they are very out of touch with reality. 

This would be very different without the United States.

[Orca of Peace 109]

20 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

This would be very different without the United States.

for now.  Israel has a fantastic arms industry so maybe in 30 years they can make their own jets and a few other large scale equipment pieces. They'll be completely self sufficient IMO very soon. 

Edited May 28, 2018 by Orca of Peace

[David Dennison 18608]

Just now, Orca of Peace said:

for now.  Israel has a fantastic arms industry so many in 30 years they can make their own jets and a few other large scale equipment pieces. They'll be completely self sufficient IMO very soon. 

They still need us. They act the way they do because we let them.

[zork 629]

1 minute ago, Orca of Peace said:

for now.  Israel has a fantastic arms industry so maybe in 30 years they can make their own jets and a few other large scale equipment pieces. They'll be completely self sufficient IMO very soon. 

Which party in the US do you see as abandoning Israel?

[Orca of Peace 109]

14 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

They still need us. They act the way they do because we let them.

they act that way because no one can stop them, we don't "let them", Obama didn't like much what they did but the IDF bombed happily until they were satisfied. 

[Whitman 694]

On 5/27/2018 at 10:15 AM, MaybeACoordinator said:

Simple question for you Likudnik types: why does some kid from Meyerland or Brooklyn have a "right of return" to a country he's never been to, nor his parents, nor any of his ancestors going back to maybe 100 AD, when Palestinians whose families have been living in that country for centuries and centuries do not?

 

Because Israel as a Jewish state would not exist for very long if the Palestinians were allowed to return.  Myron Goldstein from Brooklyn doesn't threaten this.   Shear numbers (either by force or ballot) of Arabs would be the end of Israel.  

Edited May 28, 2018 by Whitman

[GHOSTUSER 361]

On 5/27/2018 at 9:15 AM, MaybeACoordinator said:

Simple question for you Likudnik types: why does some kid from Meyerland or Brooklyn have a "right of return" to a country he's never been to, nor his parents, nor any of his ancestors going back to maybe 100 AD, when Palestinians whose families have been living in that country for centuries and centuries do not?

How is that some deed in the Bible overrules more recent deeds? 

I don't give a shit if there never was a country of Palestine. I do know that there are many, many people who call themselves Palestinian. And many, many of those people were expelled from their homeland and are not allowed to return, while the descendants of people who left that same land thousands of years ago are not just encouraged to "return," but offered incentives to do so. 

So: people born and raised there are banned from returning and have had their land confiscated. People who've never been there are entitled to those same lands because Jehovah said so 4000 years ago. Makes perfect sense. 

 

The reason why is because Jews have always been a minority in every country they have inhabited in the world except for the sliver of land between the Jordan and the Mediterranean and have suffered persecution over the millennia wherever they have been a minority. There is a historical connection that the Jews have to the land comprising modern day Israel and the Jewish kid from Meyerland or Brooklyn is given an incentive to move to Israel so that Jews maintain the dominant majority of the population there which they never have had since the Bar Khokba revolt. That is why any suggestion that the Israelis and Palestinians create a single state comprising Israel, the West Bank and Gaza with equal rights, citizenship and democracy for both Arab and Jew is so ridiculous and devoid of any understanding of history.

I’m not a Jew, but if I was and understood my people’s history and who they are dealing with respect to Arabs who have tried to eradicate and dominate every non-Arab people it has come in contact with (thankfully, Iranians resisted Arabization when it came to language and culture, except with respect to Islam, unfortunately) I would without question sacrifice the democratic nature of Israel to maintain an ethno-nationalist state with a dominant Jewish majority. Our American ideals laid out in the Declaration of Independence and Constitution are the best in the world and can be applied to other countries when everyone BUYS INTO that system. Arabs with the disaster that is the Arab Spring have proven that they will use democratic tools as weapons to subjugate the OTHER, whether they are Shiites or Sunnis.

Liberal Jews are oblivious to the realities of the Middle East and think Palestinians are an oppressed minority like Jim Crow era African-Americans. Blacks bought into our system of government and rightfully wanted us to live up to what we proclaim in our founding documents and to be treated equally with whites. I respect Netanyahu for understanding the true nature of Arabs and that one man one vote is a non-starter but also unilaterally withdrawing from Judea and Samaria is also out of the question. What I have written isn’t PC and I feel dirty writing it but it is reality. What surprises me is why so many liberal American Jews don’t understand the truth of the situation as I laid out above. 

Edited May 28, 2018 by Iconoclast Texan

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Imagine the Comanche started coming back to Texas. And there was a branch of Orthodox Comanche who bred like crazy. And at some point, say, some other country said the Comanche had as much right to Texas as the Texans who came later. And eventually the Texans who came later started a war against those Comanches, and those Texans got their asses handed to them, and the Comanche expelled them and told them they could never come back and took all their land. And then the Comanches said to their allied tribe the Kiowa, hey, this land is your land too. Come on down from wherever you may be in the world. Right of return, bro. 

[Brian Fantana 6654]

6 hours ago, Whitman said:

Because Israel as a Jewish state would not exist for very long if the Palestinians were allowed to return.  Myron Goldstein from Brooklyn doesn't threaten this.   Shear numbers (either by force or ballot) of Arabs would be the end of Israel.  

Why do you seem to believe that the Jews and only the Jews have some sacred right to that land?

[David Dennison 18608]

9 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Why do you seem to believe that the Jews and only the Jews have some sacred right to that land?

I'm more amazed that people seem to believe this will be the case forever.

[David Dennison 18608]

2 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Imagine the Comanche started coming back to Texas. And there was a branch of Orthodox Comanche who bred like crazy. And at some point, say, some other country said the Comanche had as much right to Texas as the Texans who came later. And eventually the Texans who came later started a war against those Comanches, and those Texans got their asses handed to them, and the Comanche expelled them and told them they could never come back and took all their land. And then the Comanches said to their allied tribe the Kiowa, hey, this land is your land too. Come on down from wherever you may be in the world. Right of return, bro. 

Did Comanche terrorists bomb the Quanah Parker Hotel?

[Whitman 694]

6 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Why do you seem to believe that the Jews and only the Jews have some sacred right to that land?

Because of my belief in the writings in Genesis, Exodus and Ezekiel among others.  I don't believe that others can't live there, but that God set it aside for the descendants of Jacob.

[GHOSTUSER 361]

Imagine the Comanche started coming back to Texas. And there was a branch of Orthodox Comanche who bred like crazy. And at some point, say, some other country said the Comanche had as much right to Texas as the Texans who came later. And eventually the Texans who came later started a war against those Comanches, and those Texans got their asses handed to them, and the Comanche expelled them and told them they could never come back and took all their land. And then the Comanches said to their allied tribe the Kiowa, hey, this land is your land too. Come on down from wherever you may be in the world. Right of return, bro. 

 

What do you expect would happen when you have 2 different peoples hostile to each other wanting to rule the same landmass? What happened in Israel to the Palestinians who used to live in Israel proper was a unilaterally imposed population exchange that the Israelis won as the victors.

 

Partition made the most sense and worked in the cases of the Greek/Turkish and Indian/ Pakistani population exchange. There was a Christian presence on Asia minor for millennia before the exchange was implemented after WWI. Those that were forced to move from their homes undoubtedly suffered but in both cases above it helped prevent the decades long conflict and bloodshed that has occurred between Israel/Palestine

[Fozzz 152]

Happy Friday!

https://twitter.com/YousefMunayyer/status/1002599017891663872https://twitter.com/YousefMunayyer/status/1002599017891663872

[bad_teammate 13125]

 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

 

Palestinian American friend of mine, a Christian from Ramallah, got booted off Facebook for 24 hours for linking to that with sarcastic commentary. 

 

[bad_teammate 13125]

People who see the Israel/Palestine conflict in Biblical terms are a huge part of the problem. An example of when religion is not a benign collective delusion and a genuinely deadly one.

[hpslugga 4039]

On 6/1/2018 at 4:20 PM, Fozzz said:

Happy Friday!

https://twitter.com/YousefMunayyer/status/1002599017891663872https://twitter.com/YousefMunayyer/status/1002599017891663872

Not only that, her cousin was similarly murdered days later.

Also, Haley announced last week that the US would be vetoing a forthcoming Security Council resolution that calls for the protection of Palestinians living in the Occupied Territories. 

Wouldn't you know who won the motherfucking pony?

Edited June 5, 2018 by hpslugga

[Dolemite 143]

Quote

President Trump's Middle East peace team, senior adviser Jared Kushner and special envoy Jason Greenblatt, will travel to Israel, Egypt and Saudi Arabia next week to discuss the next stages of the peace effort and the crisis in Gaza, a senior U.S. official tells me.

Why it matters: The official said Kushner and Greenblatt want to discuss lingering questions they have as they finish drafting the peace plan, including the optimal time for launching it. The U.S. official added the trip may include other stops as well, but does not include a meeting with Palestinian officials — who are refusing to meet following Trump's decision to move the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem.

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From the U.S. official:

• "The peace team didn’t ask for a meeting [with the Palestinians] for this trip. The Palestinian leadership will know Kushner and Greenblatt are in the region and if the Palestinian leadership wants to meet, Kushner and Greenblatt are ready to meet."
• "The administration wants to launch the plan when the circumstances are right, and Kushner and Greenblatt want to hear the parties’ thoughts on that. The administration has not set a date yet for launching the plan."

U.S. Ambassador to Israel David Friedman is visiting Washington this week. The U.S. official stressed that contrary to several press reports, Friedman was not summoned to Washington to talk about the peace plan but was there for regular meetings. "Ambassador Friedman wanted to catch up with Kushner and Greenblatt before they head to the region", the U.S. official said.

It just never stops with Trumps.

 

https://www.axios.com/kushner-travel-to-israel-egypt-saudi-arabia-for-peace-plan-talks-0c65acf3-aeb3-4aa7-9674-699de36168e5.html

[Bill Clinton 73]

http://news.trust.org/item/20180619133252-9t8jz

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WASHINGTON, June 19 (Reuters) - White House Senior Adviser Jared Kushner, who is also President Donald Trump's son-in-law, met on Tuesday with Jordan's King Abdullah about the humanitarian situation in Gaza and the Trump administration's efforts on creating peace between Israel and the Palestinian territories, the White House said on Tuesday.

The meeting, which also included Special Representative for International Negotiations Jason Greenblatt, came one day after a tete-a-tete between the king of the Arab nation and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on advancing regional peace. The Trump administration has been working on an Israeli-Palestinian plan, but it has yet to be made public.

 

[Brian Fantana 6654]

Hey let's crowdsource bitch smokey's new account

[bad_teammate 13125]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

What are you thoughts of Max Blumenthal?  Ever considered he might be a Kremlin stooge on the left?  

Don’t take my word for it though, look into this on your own and decide for yourself

[Anastasis 23375]

13 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

 

Disgusting. 

[Orca of Peace 109]

Jared Kushner, yes, that Kushner is a chief negotiator for the bogus "peace process" and has interests in the Israel settlements. 

http://www.newsweek.com/jared-kushner-disclosure-form-west-bank-settlements-israel-white-house-729290

ared Kushner failed to disclose his role as a co-director of the Charles and Seryl Kushner Foundation from 2006 to 2015, a time when the group funded an Israeli settlement considered to be illegal under international law, on financial records he filed with the Office of Government Ethics earlier this year.