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SmokeyBear1861

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elfenix
elfenix

Babies decapitated by man with semi automatic rifle in the near east : turn it into glass! Babies decapitated by man with semi automatic rifle in Texas : nothing can be done

Evil Bill Obrien
Evil Bill Obrien

Coldest tweet I have seen in a very long time...damn  

TexArcher
TexArcher

Disclaimer: I've been pretty clearly anti-Israeli leadership and anti-radical Islam.  I don't see a good guy in this thing; I see two bad guys, and I think the most anyone could reasonably argue is th

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Cajun

Cajun 11675

Posted
Posted
21 hours ago, Asithappens said:

Ok, let's play your game and stipulate that this was a "murder".

How many murders are the Palestinians guilty of?

The Palestinians are their own worst enemy, imo. Not that this condones what the Israelis do. 

But I don't remember Israelis dancing in the street after 9/11. 

I don't remember Israel attacking other Arab states way back when and getting their shit kicked. Do you?

Bibi is a fuckstick, imo. And Israel is barely a "democracy". But the Palestinians? Give me a break.

Wait a second, I'm nodding my head in agreement with Asit?

tenor.gif

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Lagunamadre

Lagunamadre 1975

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

They backed Hitler in WWII.  They invaded Israel with the intent of genociding the Jews.  They lost and are suffering the consequences.  Fuck them.

So did Japan and Italy, do you have the same ire for them today for their decisions from 80 years ago. 

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Lagunamadre said:

So did Japan and Italy, do you have the same ire for them today for their decisions from 80 years ago. 

Those countries don't still have a stated policy of desiring to annihilate their neighbors, so not so much.  But they also suffered consequences.  

They had their chance to live in peace in the 40s.  And chose not to.  They and their Arab brothers repeatedly attacked Israel.  And got their asses kicked.  They continue to attack Israel via terrorism, but that wall thing has slowed them down.

Israel would be insane to give back the West Bank to enemies who seek her destruction.

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Cajun

Cajun 11675

Posted
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

How long do generations of Palestinians who had nothing to do with either of those things have to suffer at the hands of Israeli oppression? When does the statute run?

Boy, you should ask yourself these same questions when peddling white guilt.

Lord

Que up the "This is different/You just don't get it" lame time frame rationalizations.  Let's see if the sun does truly rise and set again.

Edited by Cajun
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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104557

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Those countries don't still have a stated policy of desiring to annihilate their neighbors, so not so much.  But they also suffered consequences.  

They had their chance to live in peace in the 40s.  And chose not to.  They and their Arab brothers repeatedly attacked Israel.  And got their asses kicked.  They continue to attack Israel via terrorism, but that wall thing has slowed them down.

Israel would be insane to give back the West Bank to enemies who seek her destruction.

 

6 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I don't have any sympathy for the Palestinians.  They are fucking idiots.  They should have taken the deal Clinton brokered in 2000.

One can agree with both points, yet also conclude that Israeli snipers shouldn't shoot unarmed one-legged men.

That's how sane human beings roll.

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted
Just now, Brisketexan said:

 

One can agree with both points, yet also conclude that Israeli snipers shouldn't shoot unarmed one-legged men.

That's how sane human beings roll.

We sure he wasn't doing something to provoke them first?  Or was he just chilling out on the Israel/Gaza border peacefully?

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Lagunamadre

Lagunamadre 1975

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

We sure he wasn't doing something to provoke them first?  Or was he just chilling out on the Israel/Gaza border peacefully?

I guess the better question is, what could an unarmed one-legged man possibly do to warrant an assassination from a sniper? 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18651

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Cajun said:

Boy, you should ask yourself these same questions when peddling white guilt.

Lord

Que up the "This is different/You just don't get it" lame time frame rationalizations.  Let's see if the sun does truly rise and set again.

Oh, I'm sorry. When did the racial oppression in the United States end?

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18651

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Posted
24 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Those countries don't still have a stated policy of desiring to annihilate their neighbors, so not so much.  But they also suffered consequences.  

They had their chance to live in peace in the 40s.  And chose not to.  They and their Arab brothers repeatedly attacked Israel.  And got their asses kicked.  They continue to attack Israel via terrorism, but that wall thing has slowed them down.

Israel would be insane to give back the West Bank to enemies who seek her destruction.

Don't give it back. Annex it. Make it part of Israel.

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NowThis

NowThis 931

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

We sure he wasn't doing something to provoke them first?  Or was he just chilling out on the Israel/Gaza border peacefully?

yeah, he was going to jump the barbed wire fence and destroy Israel by himself with the one good leg.

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Asithappens

Asithappens 974

Posted
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

We sure he wasn't doing something to provoke them first?  Or was he just chilling out on the Israel/Gaza border peacefully?

He was probably not doing anything that warranted his death. But then, there probably have been Israelis killed by Palestinians who didn't deserve it.

I think it's psychologically satisfying (not saying it isn't more than that) to be on the Palestinian side b/c they are the (perceived, and probably so) oppressed party, and Israel is "the man". Kinda how some think that blacks, by definition, can't be racist and that only "the man" (i.e., whitey) can be racist. 

The Palestinians are their own worst enemy, again. As referenced above, Arafat should've taken the deal. But he didn't. Why? Who knows. It's like they don't want this conflict to end. And, truth be told, most (imo) of the other Arab nations want this conflict to continue. 

The mentality over there is completely fucked up. Don't try to approach it from an American mentality point of view.

Edited by Asithappens
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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

Posted
Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, Asithappens said:

I think it's psychologically satisfying (not saying it isn't more than that) to be on the Palestinian side b/c they are the (perceived, and probably so) oppressed party, and Israel is "the man". Kinda how some think that blacks, by definition, can't be racist and that only "the man" (i.e., whitey) can be racist.

brain worms

(this is how abusive husbands talk to/about the wives they beat)

Edited by bad_teammate
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hpslugga

hpslugga 4043

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Asithappens said:

As referenced above, Arafat should've taken the deal. But he didn't. Why? Who knows.

Oh just about the entire international community, and again it starts for the reason that was admitted to by Israel's lead negotiator: it was a bullshit deal that no Palestinian could reasonably be expected to accept. You're just regurgitating things you've heard in the American media.

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Gladeite

Gladeite 375

Posted
Posted

It is hard to imagine that Israel is similar to the size of:

Dallas to Houston from north to south

Waco to Tyler east to west.

I have been all over Israel.  It is pretty easy to travel around for a U.S. citizen.  Just have to be wary of A, B or C zones.  Don't act weird in public places, don't carry a Torah in the West Bank, don't carry a large bag to the Western Wall.  Tel Aviv, Jerusalem and Tiberius all have great restaurant and shopping districts.  There is a really nice resort on the Dead Sea.  Jericho has interesting historical artifacts.  I enjoyed the old shipping ports along the Mediterranean as well as Megiddo.  

 

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hpslugga

hpslugga 4043

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Asithappens said:

Yeah, that could be.

But does it mean that it is necessarily wrong?

In this case, yes. It's absolutely wrong about absolutely every contention that it makes and/or implies. There's an ample documentary record to show it and it's beyond scandalous that anyone could believe a single syllable coming from the mouths of the Dennis Rosses of the world.

Edited by hpslugga
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Cajun

Cajun 11675

Posted
Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, Asithappens said:

He was probably not doing anything that warranted his death. But then, there probably have been Israelis killed by Palestinians who didn't deserve it.

I think it's psychologically satisfying (not saying it isn't more than that) to be on the Palestinian side b/c they are the (perceived, and probably so) oppressed party, and Israel is "the man". Kinda how some think that blacks, by definition, can't be racist and that only "the man" (i.e., whitey) can be racist. 

The Palestinians are their own worst enemy, again. As referenced above, Arafat should've taken the deal. But he didn't. Why? Who knows. It's like they don't want this conflict to end. And, truth be told, most (imo) of the other Arab nations want this conflict to continue. 

The mentality over there is completely fucked up. Don't try to approach it from an American mentality point of view.

Uh huh...

Quote

TEKOA, West Bank — In a charity store packed with used clothing on the edge of Tekoa, a Jewish settlement in the beige hills of the southern West Bank, Michal Froman, 30 and pregnant, was shopping on Monday when a Palestinian teenager walked in.

He hesitantly picked up a piece of clothing and asked the price. Ms. Froman asked if she could help him, but he suddenly pulled out a knife, stabbing and wounding her, according to a local resident who arrived seconds later.

The attack took place as a funeral convoy was making its way to Jerusalem for the burial of Dafna Meir, 38, a mother of six who was fatally stabbed on Sunday at the entrance to her home in Otniel, a settlement to the south.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/19/world/middleeast/palestinian-israel-settlement-attack.html

She wasn't killed, but it wasn't for lack of effort.  Plenty of videos on the liveleaks and BestGores of this world with Palestinians killing innocents.  None of it is right.

Edited by Cajun
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NowThis

NowThis 931

Posted
Posted

the settlers are armed, commit many crimes including murder, vandalize, burn crops, chop trees.  It's natural to hate them. They're complete arrogant assholes who are the main reason there will be no 2 state solution ever. In fact, Israel has plans to move in another 1 million Jews into the West Bank. 

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Asithappens

Asithappens 974

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

In this case, yes. It's absolutely wrong about absolutely every contention that it makes and/or implies. There's an ample documentary record to show it and it's beyond scandalous that anyone could believe a single syllable coming from the mouths of the Dennis Rosses of the world.

Can you link me something regarding this? 

I'd be interested in finding out more. Seriously.

Thanks.

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hpslugga

hpslugga 4043

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Asithappens said:

Can you link me something regarding this? 

I'd be interested in finding out more. Seriously.

Thanks.

https://www.democracynow.org/2006/2/14/fmr_israeli_foreign_minister_if_i

"this same diplomat still behaves in a way as a historian when he says in this book that Camp David was not the missed opportunity for the Palestinians, and if I were a Palestinian I would have rejected Camp David, as well."

https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/whatkilledarafat/2012/07/20127391736633341.html

"if I were a Palestinian, I said many times, I would not have accepted the deal, whatever this deal might have been because as I’ve said before, there were different interpretations of what was put on the table in Camp David. But I admit that that was not sufficient for the Palestinians. That did not meet the minimal requirements of the Palestinians for a deal with Israel."

I have to repeat, these are the words of Israel's Foreign Minister (aka their lead negotiator at Camp David).

I've written on the Camp David topic numerous times, as have many other more qualified writers. If you're looking for a print source, I'd suggest reading Clayton Swisher's The Truth About Camp David: The Untold Story About the Collapse of the Middle East Peace Process. It's a great read that paints a very clear picture of both the Camp David as well as the Taba negotiations, and it's a much different picture than what the American press likes to paint.

EDIT: I'd also suggest reading Ron Pundak and Shaul Arieli's analyses, specifically Pundak's map and what a joke it was compared to the fictitious map that Dennis Ross likes to show off whenever his usual gallery of all of 8 people will listen to him. 

Edited by hpslugga
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GHOSTUSER

GHOSTUSER 361

Posted
Posted (edited)

60ebbacbe3b50b61dc489d0466d25f58.jpg

As a student and lover of history, I read the book I cited above, Side by Side because I wanted to have a better understanding and knowledge of the events that took place this past century leading to the intractable Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I highly recommend it to everyone here. I knew I had a bias since I have been a supporter of Israel in the past because frankly I am more sympathetic to Jews than Arabs. The fundamentalist Christian Zionism that Johnny Sack’s church preaches that colors the debate in this country is based on a heretical eschatology that mainline Christian churches and thousands of years of Church tradition and theology  don’t support.

What bothers me with braindead fundies is the fact that they completely overlook the suffering that Palestinian Christians have suffered. I find Israel fascinating. It’s a country the size of New Jersey with a small population but with a long history and has come into being as a modern state with a lot of promise and baggage. I’m going to Israel and the West Bank in a few months. I can’t wait for this trip and have made it a point in planning my visit to meet with Jews, Christians, Muslims, Palestinians, Israelis, Armenians and Druze and seeing everything including the separation barrier with my own eyes.

I really don’t get what the endgame or strategy that Israel has with the settlements. They don’t have a plan to ethnically cleanse the occupied territories and adding these settlements with their Jewish populations in them is making the 1 state solution that no one wants a greater possibility every day.  If they had just built a wall separating the territories from Israel without the settlements they wouldn’t be under the pressure they are now.

Ilhan Omar just today and Rashida Tlaib this past month are quickly finding out they are on an island in Congress with respect to their views about Israel. Are we going to see a rift in the Democratic Party like we have seen in Labour because of Corbynism? I doubt it. The Israel lobby is the most powerful, effective and impressive political force in this country.

 

Edited by Iconoclast Texan
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NowThis

NowThis 931

Posted
Posted

this video is mesmerizing, first time I've seen it.  So they take undercover cameras/mics into Israeli lobbying groups, and uncover the truth. 

Just watch the first few minutes and you will want to watch the full 49.

 

Turns out Iman was right, the money is buying Washington for Israel, so why was she condemend. She's young, did not choose her words carefully then did not fight the demand for an apology. 

 

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NowThis

NowThis 931

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, Cajun said:

Pretty good.  Fucking American government and our lobby apparatus.

Another point of view....

 

no one is mocking the lobby apparatus, instead, i posted to show that the Muslim Congresswomen is being demonized for telling the truth "it's all about the Benjamins", ie money matters. And to conflate money with traditional anti-semitism in this case is a false comparison, because Israeli lobbyists are in fact funding pro Israeli politicians. Just as any other lobby group pays for their point of view, so the Jews are not being 'singled out'. 

Regarding the video you posted, that does nothing to expose a Palestinian 'lie'. In the early 1920s - 40s the Jews were also killing Arab civilians, but not mentioned in the video, was it? The Arabs were 90% of the population, so it's no mystery why they rejected a Jewish state, not because they were Jews but because they were outsiders. They would have rejected a state of Italians as well, not that they just hate Italians just for being Italian. 

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hpslugga

hpslugga 4043

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, NowThis said:

The Arabs were 90% of the population, so it's no mystery why they rejected a Jewish state, not because they were Jews but because they were outsiders. They would have rejected a state of Italians as well, not that they just hate Italians just for being Italian. 

Hell even Benny Morris has been admitting that much for years. 

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Cajun

Cajun 11675

Posted
Posted
50 minutes ago, NowThis said:

no one is mocking the lobby apparatus, instead, i posted to show that the Muslim Congresswomen is being demonized for telling the truth "it's all about the Benjamins", ie money matters. And to conflate money with traditional anti-semitism in this case is a false comparison, because Israeli lobbyists are in fact funding pro Israeli politicians. Just as any other lobby group pays for their point of view, so the Jews are not being 'singled out'. 

Regarding the video you posted, that does nothing to expose a Palestinian 'lie'. In the early 1920s - 40s the Jews were also killing Arab civilians, but not mentioned in the video, was it? The Arabs were 90% of the population, so it's no mystery why they rejected a Jewish state, not because they were Jews but because they were outsiders. They would have rejected a state of Italians as well, not that they just hate Italians just for being Italian. 

Yes, someone is mocking the lobby apparatus.  Me.

You detected sarcasm where there wasn’t any.

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