Israel

[C-Man 26992]

These dangerous idiots, as has been pointed out before, love Israel because they, the idiots, are convinced we are in end days.
 

They might not be entirely wrong

[SydneyCarton 47809]

1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

I guess put this here but can go in any number of threads:

 

 

Israel might not do as much if Congress can't elect a fucking speaker and his party can't decide they actually want to govern. 

20 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

People saying, "Why didn't the Palestinians just save up some money and leave?" are missing the fact that half the people in Gaza live below the poverty line, and Israel has the entire place blockaded, including the ports.  Egypt is the only other border Gaza has, and Egypt won't take them because they can't deal with 2 million refugees and they don't want to strain their relatively peaceful relations with Israel.  So, how exactly were these people in Gaza supposed to leave?  Swim to Greece?

As JimmyJazz said, it's not just that Egypt can't take them, they've also actively blockaded Gaza because they know Hamas is a fucking group of lunatics and they don't want them in their borders. 

3 minutes ago, C-Man said:

 

They might not be entirely wrong

 

Yeah, but it isn't going to end with them in fucking heaven, like they think. 

[kevwun 15595]

I have recently been to Egypt and I can say pretty confidently that they can't cope with a million refugees.  It would be a disaster.

Edited October 13, 2023 by kevwun

[Brian Fantana 6654]

I thought Hamas was democratically elected and the people just love Hamas which is why it's ok to slaughter them?

Which is it?

[SydneyCarton 47809]

2 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

I thought Hamas was democratically elected and the people just love Hamas which is why it's ok to slaughter them?

Which is it?

I'm sorry, I read that quote and to me that's exactly what he's implying: They like Hamas or they would have risen up and fought as opposed to electing them, and not deposing them when they suspeneded all elections.
 

 

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

nm

Edited October 13, 2023 by MC Fresh Breath
nm

[SydneyCarton 47809]

4 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Just like we can rise up and stop our corrupt Supreme Court.  Rising up is so easy.  And surely the entire group of people must be on the same page.  Sure, Jan.

You’re right. Americans have it easy and we can’t even be bothered to seek out reliable data information sources, show up at the voting booth, or even recognize fascism and hate at home. Palestinians have zero shot of reform or rising up in their situation. Let’s call a spade a spade. 
 

therefore Israel should sit back and let their citizens, children, elderly, get kidnapped, raped, and murdered. They shouldn’t defend themselves, and they should never retaliate. Repeatedly. Ever again. 

[Anastasis 23375]

15 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

I thought Hamas was democratically elected and the people just love Hamas which is why it's ok to slaughter them?

Which is it?

Well, if you can sell people on collective responsibility, it becomes easier to digest when you execute collective punishment.  

[wildcat09 29187]

48 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

The same idiots support Israel while spreading antisemitic conspiracies using code words like “globalists,” “bankers,” and “Soros.” 

This shit is why Netanyahu's abandonment of diaspora Jews and embrace of fascists makes me so goddamned furious.  He fucking encourages the conflation of Israel with the Jewish people, which is used by anti-Semites to pretend that they don't hate the "real" Jews but only the secular marxist Jews. You know, the exact same fucking shit the nazis said (before they got around to killing Orthodox Jews too).

[Nice Guy Eddie 13391]

11 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Not really possible to evacuate 1.2 million people in 24 hours, especially considering they have nowhere to go, but I'm sure Netanyahu is counting on that.

Is that accurate? We're not talking about having them move 200 miles. If they're being told to move from north Gaza to south Gaza, the entire area is 25 miles and presumably many would have to travel less than that. 

Now is there somewhere for them to go? Probably not but at some point, a population has to be held responsible for the govt they chose. Maybe they chose poorly. Maybe they're unable to remove their govt. Regardless this is what they wanted.

I assume Israel wants to ultimately push the Gaza inhabitants into Egypt. Now when the Egyptian army/police/border agents are standing in the way, I don't know what will happen.

 

[G650 13990]

Just now, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Maybe they chose poorly

Maybe?

[Brian Fantana 6654]

2 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

You’re right. Americans have it easy and we can’t even be bothered to seek out reliable data information sources, show up at the voting booth, or even recognize fascism and hate at home. Palestinians have zero shot of reform or rising up in their situation. Let’s call a spade a spade. 
 

therefore Israel should sit back and let their citizens, children, elderly, get kidnapped, raped, and murdered. They shouldn’t defend themselves, and they should never retaliate. Repeatedly. Ever again. 

No one is saying Israel should do any of those things, but hey, it's fun building strawmen, right?

This is the problem I have with people like you. You can recognize the horror in what Hamas did this past Saturday, you can recognize the righteous anger Israelis must feel and their need to retaliate, but when Israeli snipers film themselves executing children at the border during the March of Return and laugh about how their legs flop around, you don't give a shit and don't recognize that Palestinians might have the same kind of feelings. They're just animals that hate Jews, so it's fine.

[Anastasis 23375]

1 minute ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Probably not but at some point, a population has to be held responsible for the govt they chose.

This is the logic used by OBL, FWIW.  

[BrickHorn 18176]

2 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

You’re right. Americans have it easy and we can’t even be bothered to seek out reliable data information sources, show up at the voting booth, or even recognize fascism and hate at home. Palestinians have zero shot of reform or rising up in their situation. Let’s call a spade a spade. 
 

therefore Israel should sit back and let their citizens, children, elderly, get kidnapped, raped, and murdered. They shouldn’t defend themselves, and they should never retaliate. Repeatedly. Ever again. 

I don’t think anyone questions whether Israel should retaliate. The issue is what that retaliation should be, and at whom it should be targeted. Specifically, in response to a mass murder by the armed wing of a terrorist organization, should Israel carpet bomb a zone with 2.3 million inhabitants and force a million people out of their homes? 

I’m not arguing that any of us have an alternative proposal at hand. But it’s reasonable to pause and consider whether full-scale bombing and invasion is just or likely to result in a better future for anyone in the region. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13391]

1 minute ago, G650 said:

Maybe?

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. 80% unemployment, lack of resources, and facing an invading army. The Palestinians have been failed by the leaders since the 40s. Any decent deal on the table, maybe even unfair ones, have been rejected because it wasn't enough. Then every subsequent offer has been worse and worse. 

And also on the evacuation orders. Someone may hate leaving especially thinking they have no where to go but are they going to stand in front of Israeli soldiers by asking for more time. You're told to move, you move.

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

18 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

 

therefore Israel should sit back and let their citizens, children, elderly, get kidnapped, raped, and murdered. They shouldn’t defend themselves, and they should never retaliate. Repeatedly. Ever again. 

Yeah, that's what I meant, for sure dude.  Insightful.

And sure, Israell isn't the oppressor in this situation.  And Israell hasn't been committing any atrocities at all and hasn't been killing kids for decades.  Hasn't been shooting Palestinians all the time.  Doesn't have IDF soldiers who back in 2018 bragged about how many Palestinians they crippled druing peaceful protests.  On and on.

And there's no way the Palestinian youths have felt trapped between Hamas and the State of Israel. 

https://www.972mag.com/gaza-hijacked-hamas-palestinian-youth/

Edited October 13, 2023 by MC Fresh Breath
typing

[Dbeasy 14953]

It’s awesome that Israel told 1 million Palestinian people to vacate North Gaza. Now all that will be left are the Hamas terrorists to easily shoot. Such an orderly war. 

[SydneyCarton 47809]

Just now, Brian Fantana said:

No one is saying Israel should do any of those things, but hey, it's fun building strawmen, right?

This is the problem I have with people like you. You can recognize the horror in what Hamas did this past Saturday, you can recognize the righteous anger Israelis must feel and their need to retaliate, but when Israeli snipers film themselves executing children at the border during the March of Return and laugh about how their legs flop around, you don't give a shit and don't recognize that Palestinians might have the same kind of feelings. They're just animals that hate Jews, so it's fine.

This is the exact same straw man you have repeatedly used in this thread, when you tell people “you don’t think you’re advocating for the genocide of Palestinians but that’s what you’re doing” to paraphrase your earlier posts/stances. 
 

and speaking of straw men and putting words in people’s mouths, you can take your second paragraph and fuck right the hell off. You legit think Israeli soldiers are going to giggle while sniping children? So you just assume they’re equally horrible folks at the start as Hamas. That’s telling. And That is bullshit. And also fuck you for what is essentially a personal attack on me. I like you as a poster generally, and I disagree with your takes here and you basically accuse me of reveling in child death and drinking baby blood. Get all the way fucked, you should fucking apologize. 
 

you keep saying no one is saying Israel can’t respond and defend themselves, but you shit all over them doing so, and you offer no suggestions for how they should accomplish a reprisal, because no one can. Maybe a strongly worded letter? Hamas uses their civilians as shields because they don’t give a fuck about them, only killing Jews, per their charter. Israel says “evacuate north Gaza” and critics say “that’s forced migration!” Everything they do by certain people is framed as an excuse for genocide. But they didn’t ask for a thousand of their children and spouses to get killed and abducted on Saturday. 

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

https://theintercept.com/2018/04/10/gaza-protests-palestine-israel-sniper-video/

['stache 21744]

What a fucked up statement. "Overthrow you're terrorist leaders or we'll just slaughter everyone." Feels a lot like "just pay $5000 and leave Gaza." Yeah, so simple, right? I'm pretty sure the "democratically elected" part has been addressed already. 

[wildcat09 29187]

12 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

This is the logic used by OBL, FWIW.  

Also Hamas.

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

https://old.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/nrhn2z/israeli_soldiers_beating_a_palestinian_child_the/

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20161021-israeli-torture/

https://old.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/ngndc8/israeli_soldiers_use_palestinian_child_as_human/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/04/gaza-strip-protesters-received-bullet-wounds-to-ankles-medics-report

https://old.reddit.com/r/EndlessWar/comments/174wq3q/watch_israeli_snipers_randomly_shoot_unarmed/

on and on.

Edited October 13, 2023 by MC Fresh Breath

[SydneyCarton 47809]

7 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

I don’t think anyone questions whether Israel should retaliate. The issue is what that retaliation should be, and at whom it should be targeted. Specifically, in response to a mass murder by the armed wing of a terrorist organization, should Israel carpet bomb a zone with 2.3 million inhabitants and force a million people out of their homes? 

I’m not arguing that any of us have an alternative proposal at hand. But it’s reasonable to pause and consider whether full-scale bombing and invasion is just or likely to result in a better future for anyone in the region. 

This has been mine, and most posters stance here all along. But there are a few posters who have taken it quite a step further to accuse anything they do as an excuse to murder and genocide. Sometimes a situation just fucking sucks. But Fontana accused me of getting my rocks off on dismemberment of Palestinians. Fuck that bullshit. 

My posting history on this thread speaks for itself. I’m not some blind pro Israel honk. But some posters have wildly unrealistic expectations of human behavior and a nation trying to survive surrounded on all sides by enemies, and they do not even remotely aim that lense towards the Palestinian side. 
 

They’re both fucking kiss dolls. 

5 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Yeah, that's what I meant, for sure dude.  Insightful.

And sure, Isreal isn't the oppressor in this situation.  And Isreael hasn't been committing any atrocities at all and hasn't been killing kids for decades.  Hasn't been shooting Palestinians all the time.  Doesn't have IDF soldiers who back in 2018 bragged about how many Palestinians they crippled druing peaceful protests.  On and on.

And there's no way the Palestinian youths have felt trapped between Hamas and the State of Israel. 

https://www.972mag.com/gaza-hijacked-hamas-palestinian-youth/

That’s not what you said, but that’s what what your repeated statements amount to, when everything Israel does in response is over the line and too far, murdering children. You even paint this as all Israel’s fault in this post I’m quoting. “Well they’ve been aggressors and murderers foe years, so…” As another poster said, sure, you’re not explicitly stating Israel should just take it, but that’s what you’re advocating for…

[Brian Fantana 6654]

10 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

This is the exact same straw man you have repeatedly used in this thread, when you tell people “you don’t think you’re advocating for the genocide of Palestinians but that’s what you’re doing” to paraphrase your earlier posts/stances. 
 

and speaking of straw men and putting words in people’s mouths, you can take your second paragraph and fuck right the hell off. You legit think Israeli soldiers are going to giggle while sniping children? So you just assume they’re equally horrible folks at the start as Hamas. That’s telling. And That is bullshit. And also fuck you for what is essentially a personal attack on me. I like you as a poster generally, and I disagree with your takes here and you basically accuse me of reveling in child death and drinking baby blood. Get all the way fucked, you should fucking apologize. 
 

you keep saying no one is saying Israel can’t respond and defend themselves, but you shit all over them doing so, and you offer no suggestions for how they should accomplish a reprisal, because no one can. Maybe a strongly worded letter? Hamas uses their civilians as shields because they don’t give a fuck about them, only killing Jews, per their charter. Israel says “evacuate north Gaza” and critics say “that’s forced migration!” Everything they do by certain people is framed as an excuse for genocide. But they didn’t ask for a thousand of their children and spouses to get killed and abducted on Saturday. 

 

https://theintercept.com/2018/04/10/gaza-protests-palestine-israel-sniper-video/

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/idf-to-discipline-soldiers-who-filmed-sniper-video-549387

Yes it fucking happened you dumb bitch, and it's just one instance of many, many atrocities committed against peaceful Palestinians by Israelis. It is absolutely telling that you simply cannot believe it despite there being ample evidence out there.

Look man, I like you as a poster too, but you're so fucking brainwashed by Western media's portrayal of this conflict that you view the Palestinians simply as animals to be put down. Regretfully, I'm sure, but it's there.

Of course Israel has every right to destroy Hamas. But once again, you're conflating all Palestinians with Hamas so you can sleep better after Israel mows them all down. Take a fucking lap.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Brian Fantana

[SydneyCarton 47809]

4 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

https://old.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/nrhn2z/israeli_soldiers_beating_a_palestinian_child_the/

 

https://old.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/ngndc8/israeli_soldiers_use_palestinian_child_as_human/

 

on and on.

Did you see the video of the Palestinian children yesterday begging to strap on a suicide vest to kill Jews? 
 

fine, let’s just let them all kill each other. Humans fucking suck. 

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

3 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

This has been mine, and most posters stance here all along. But there are a few posters who have taken it quite a step further to accuse anything they do as an excuse to murder and genocide. Sometimes a situation just fucking sucks. But Fontana accused me of getting my rocks off on dismemberment of Palestinians. Fuck that bullshit. 

My posting history on this thread speaks for itself. I’m not some blind pro Israel honk. But some posters have wildly unrealistic expectations of human behavior and a nation trying to survive surrounded on all sides by enemies, and they do not even remotely aim that lense towards the Palestinian side. 
 

They’re both fucking kiss dolls. 

That’s not what you said, but that’s what what your repeated statements amount to, when everything Israel does in response is over the line and too far, murdering children. You even paint this as all Israel’s fault in this post I’m quoting. “Well they’ve been aggressors and murderers foe years, so…” As another poster said, sure, you’re not explicitly stating Israel should just take it, but that’s what you’re advocating for…

You flat out denied Israeli atrocities when railing at Fantana.  You've shown yourself to be either willingly blind or ignorant on the situation.  Including the ridiculous notion that the Palestinians should have just risen up and stopped Hamas.  I tried to 'nm' my original post because I knew this (us railing at each other) would be the result.  So in that vein, I'll just resort to --yeah just fuck off,  you ignorant shit.  You, brisket, 956 worldwide can have it.  But yeah, fuck you.
 

 

[Dnaguy 11740]

1 hour ago, TexArcher said:

People saying, "Why didn't the Palestinians just save up some money and leave?" are missing the fact that half the people in Gaza live below the poverty line, and Israel has the entire place blockaded, including the ports.  Egypt is the only other border Gaza has, and Egypt won't take them because they can't deal with 2 million refugees and they don't want to strain their relatively peaceful relations with Israel.  So, how exactly were these people in Gaza supposed to leave?  Swim to Greece?

Yeah.

No excuse for Hamas’ actions, they  deserve the full wrath of the Israelis but for Joe Blow Gazan you’re stuck in an impossible position.

I have to figure that any solution of this has to be some sort of UN administration of Gaza.

Hamas had to be removed from power.

Or Maybe as part of some sort of normalization deal, some sort pan Arab state group (non hostile Arab league?)  can administer the Gaza Strip? Idk.

I can’t see Egypt want to absorb it on their own and swallow that butter pill.

We’ve gone beyond the point that a two state solution with the West Bank and Gaza being one state will work. 
 

Maybe decoupling GAza and the West Bank could lead to a better solution? 
 

I’m grasping at straws but I feel like ‘experts’ are too so why not?

Edited October 13, 2023 by Dnaguy

[SydneyCarton 47809]

16 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

 

https://theintercept.com/2018/04/10/gaza-protests-palestine-israel-sniper-video/

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/idf-to-discipline-soldiers-who-filmed-sniper-video-549387

Yes it fucking happened you dumb bitch, and it's just one instance of many, many atrocities committed against peaceful Palestinians by Israelis. It is absolutely telling that you simply cannot believe it despite there being ample evidence out there.

Look man, I like you as a poster too, but you're so fucking brainwashed by Western media's portrayal of this conflict that you view the Palestinians simply as animals to be put down. Regretfully, I'm sure, but it's there.

Of course Israel has every right to destroy Hamas. But once again, you're conflating all Palestinians with Hamas so you can sleep better after Israel mows them all down. Take a fucking lap.

Motherfucker I have multiple fucking posts on this thread and the daily Texan one taking other posters to task for lumping all Palestinians in with HAMAS and identifying the huge difference between Hamas and the PA. But because my immediate reaction doesn’t align exactly with yours, I think all Palestinians are beasts. Ignoring literally the entire body of my posts which indicate otherwise. Dude that is bullshit, and fuck you. 
 

Do I want civilians to die? No. Do I want any non militant to die? No. The difference between you and me is simply that I know it’s going to happen, and I know why Israel is going to do it, and I understand it. I hate it. But you and everyone else has no other answer than “well, they should do their best not to harm innocents, nevermind Hamas’s literal strategy is to hide beside innocents.” That’s not going to stop Israel this time. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by SydneyCarton

[SydneyCarton 47809]

25 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

You flat out denied Israeli atrocities when railing at Fantana.  You've shown yourself to be either willingly blind or ignorant on the situation.  Including the ridiculous notion that the Palestinians should have just risen up and stopped Hamas.  I tried to 'nm' my original post because I knew this (us railing at each other) would be the result.  So in that vein, I'll just resort to --yeah just fuck off,  you ignorant shit.  You, brisket, 956 worldwide can have it.  But yeah, fuck you.
 

 

I’ve never once denied atrocities. I said “every solider.” So you think every soldier in Israel is an evil motherfucker? I don’t. I also don’t think every Palestinian is an evil motherfucker, but the ones in Gaza sure as shit are used as human shields. 
 

I have a long history on these threads of advocating for all innocent lives be spared as much as possible. As well as criticism of Israel and Bibi, who’s probably delighted this shit happened. You only show up to denigrate one side while ignoring the ongoing atrocities of the other side as well. 
 

I have both eyes open. You sure as shit don’t seem to. 
 

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by SydneyCarton

[G650 13990]

You people are spending a lot of time talking across one another.

[hobbes2702 12771]

45 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

You’re right. Americans have it easy and we can’t even be bothered to seek out reliable data information sources, show up at the voting booth, or even recognize fascism and hate at home. Palestinians have zero shot of reform or rising up in their situation. Let’s call a spade a spade. 
 

therefore Israel should sit back and let their citizens, children, elderly, get kidnapped, raped, and murdered. They shouldn’t defend themselves, and they should never retaliate. Repeatedly. Ever again. 

Who’s saying Israel shouldn’t do anything? No one is making that argument 

[Dbeasy 14953]

I find it helpful to remind myself the difference between people vs organizations in this conflict. 

Israel government policy and actions are clear, and in many cases unacceptable. 

Hamas policy and actions are horrific and deserve immediate response. 

The beliefs and actions of “the majority” of Palestinian and Israeli citizens is less clear, as I’m sure it is for many.

That makes it impossible to take a strong stand for either side, at least it does for me. But, there’s zero doubt the attacks on Hamas are going to be historic, and they should be. 

[SydneyCarton 47809]

1 minute ago, G650 said:

You people are spending a lot of time talking across one another.

Someone accused me of popping popcorn watching people die and get dismembered, ignoring days of posting on this topic and a general posting history. Yeah, I Michael Jordan took that personally. 

[hobbes2702 12771]

35 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

This is the exact same straw man you have repeatedly used in this thread, when you tell people “you don’t think you’re advocating for the genocide of Palestinians but that’s what you’re doing” to paraphrase your earlier posts/stances. 
 

and speaking of straw men and putting words in people’s mouths, you can take your second paragraph and fuck right the hell off. You legit think Israeli soldiers are going to giggle while sniping children? So you just assume they’re equally horrible folks at the start as Hamas. That’s telling. And That is bullshit. And also fuck you for what is essentially a personal attack on me. I like you as a poster generally, and I disagree with your takes here and you basically accuse me of reveling in child death and drinking baby blood. Get all the way fucked, you should fucking apologize. 
 

you keep saying no one is saying Israel can’t respond and defend themselves, but you shit all over them doing so, and you offer no suggestions for how they should accomplish a reprisal, because no one can. Maybe a strongly worded letter? Hamas uses their civilians as shields because they don’t give a fuck about them, only killing Jews, per their charter. Israel says “evacuate north Gaza” and critics say “that’s forced migration!” Everything they do by certain people is framed as an excuse for genocide. But they didn’t ask for a thousand of their children and spouses to get killed and abducted on Saturday. 

[SydneyCarton 47809]

5 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Who’s saying Israel shouldn’t do anything? No one is making that argument 

I won’t ask you what should they do. That’s been done. What shouldn’t they do? 
 

And let’s take it a step past “do their best do not harm innocent civilians” because contrary to what some light think of me, that is a given. Also, assuming it’s not PROPAGANDA on twitter, there are reports that HAMAS is telling citizens the Israeli notifies of evacuation are false and to stay in their homes. We’ll qualify that as a big IF. 
 

what should Israel do that will deter future events, make every hostile nation around them second guess doing something similar themselves and project strength, and happen in a timely enough fashion that a ton of HAMAS pieces of shit won’t escape via their networks? I have no idea. I’m d not think anyone has an idea.which leads me back to my point; if everything above can’t be met to satisfaction, the answers seem to be,  “don’t do that.” Which may as well be don’t do anything. Which I view as an unlikely bordering on impossible reaction. 
 

 

 

[Tonesky 907]

12 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

I think you know and you'll see a lot of shitty people cheering it on.

The only cheering I have seen thus far is for Hamas.  To the remarkable contrary, the comments from Israel, including from people with family members currently (if they are lucky alive and) held hostage by Hamas, has been almost uniformly empathetic toward Gaza's civilian population.

[hobbes2702 12771]

4 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

don’t do that.” Which may as well be don’t do anything.

Nope.

[Brian Fantana 6654]

15 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I’ve never once denied atrocities. I said “very solider.” So you think every soldier in Israel is an evil motherfucker? I don’t. I also don’t think every Palestinian is an evil motherfucker, but the non ent ones in Gaza sure as shit are used as human shields.

 

41 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

This is the exact same straw man you have repeatedly used in this thread, when you tell people “you don’t think you’re advocating for the genocide of Palestinians but that’s what you’re doing” to paraphrase your earlier posts/stances. 
 

and speaking of straw men and putting words in people’s mouths, you can take your second paragraph and fuck right the hell off. You legit think Israeli soldiers are going to giggle while sniping children? So you just assume they’re equally horrible folks at the start as Hamas. That’s telling. And That is bullshit. And also fuck you for what is essentially a personal attack on me. I like you as a poster generally, and I disagree with your takes here and you basically accuse me of reveling in child death and drinking baby blood. Get all the way fucked, you should fucking apologize. 
 

you keep saying no one is saying Israel can’t respond and defend themselves, but you shit all over them doing so, and you offer no suggestions for how they should accomplish a reprisal, because no one can. Maybe a strongly worded letter? Hamas uses their civilians as shields because they don’t give a fuck about them, only killing Jews, per their charter. Israel says “evacuate north Gaza” and critics say “that’s forced migration!” Everything they do by certain people is framed as an excuse for genocide. But they didn’t ask for a thousand of their children and spouses to get killed and abducted on Saturday. 

[Dahobbs 17420]

11 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Who’s saying Israel shouldn’t do anything? No one is making that argument 

No one is expressly making that argument. However, the arguments that have been made don't leave a lot of options other than not doing anything. It's like telling someone they are free to go to the other side of a river, but also telling them not to use the bridge and not to swim across. 

[Brian Fantana 6654]

13 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I find it helpful to remind myself the difference between people vs organizations in this conflict. 

Israel government policy and actions are clear, and in many cases unacceptable. 

Hamas policy and actions are horrific and deserve immediate response. 

The beliefs and actions of “the majority” of Palestinian and Israeli citizens is less clear, as I’m sure it is for many.

That makes it impossible to take a strong stand for either side, at least it does for me. But, there’s zero doubt the attacks on Hamas are going to be historic, and they should be. 

Polling generally makes it clear that the average Palestinian and the average Israeli want peace with each other.

It's the psychos in charge of both countries that don't.

[hobbes2702 12771]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

No one is expressly making that argument. However, the arguments that have been made don't leave a lot of options other than not doing anything. It's like telling someone they are free to go to the other side of a river, but also telling them not to use the bridge and not to swim across. 

I think their job is probably to build a boat. I’m not saying that’s easy. It’s obviously not. But that should be the job.

There is some middle ground between mass migration or bombing and not doing anything. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by hobbes2702

[G650 13990]

16 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Michael Jordan took that personally

 

16 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I find it helpful to remind myself the difference between people vs organizations in this conflict. 

Israel government policy and actions are clear, and in many cases unacceptable. 

Hamas policy and actions are horrific and deserve immediate response. 

The beliefs and actions of “the majority” of Palestinian and Israeli citizens is less clear, as I’m sure it is for many.

That makes it impossible to take a strong stand for either side, at least it does for me. But, there’s zero doubt the attacks on Hamas are going to be historic, and they should be. 

Well said

[SydneyCarton 47809]

2 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Nope.

Please. Offer up a suggestion. What should they do? Let me guess, it's not your responsibility to suggest anything, you're not an expert on the region? None of us are experts. But I'll tell you what, if there was a reasonable and likely suggestion that made sense, I bet we'd have all heard it by now form the US and Irsrael. There isn't one. |
I hope desperately there is one, and they find it, becuase what israel is doing is fucking EXACTLY what Hamas wants. They want Israel to invade, kill a bunch of poeple, create new Martyrs, and ensure this hatred exists for another generation or two. And Israel is going to fucking do it. 

1 minute ago, Brian Fantana said:

Do you think every Israeli soldier is as fucked up and malicious as that guy? The 650k Isralies that headed back to Israel and have been called up to Military service? Are they all that guy, in your estimation? Because that's what you're implying. And if you believe that, fine, but then you're no different than other posters who insist that every Palestininan is the same as HAMAS, and that all Palestinians are the same as the invaders who killed and abducted Israelis. 

Both sides have, and continue to do awful fucking shit. I recognize that. You apologize for one, while ignoring the other. 

[G650 13990]

4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

No one is expressly making that argument. However, the arguments that have been made don't leave a lot of options other than not doing anything. It's like telling someone they are free to go to the other side of a river, but also telling them not to use the bridge and not to swim across. 

I mean, from my perspective people are just expressing their anguish at what's unfolding, and giving the rhetorical I hope they do the best they can to minimize collateral damage. I see no one saying anything that could be construed as instructive to Israel.

[chainsaw 9831]

I stand with Israel so long as it is respecting the human rights of civilians. That means Israel doesn't get to just shout "human shield" in bad faith while slaughtering innocent people. No, it's not justifiable if those civilians have offensive opinions or political leanings, either.

By the way, are they not just a little bit concerned that their own hostages could be killed by these indiscriminate bombings??

[hobbes2702 12771]

2 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Please. Offer up a suggestion. What should they do? Let me guess, it's not your responsibility to suggest anything, you're not an expert on the region? None of us are experts. But I'll tell you what, if there was a reasonable and likely suggestion that made sense, I bet we'd have all heard it by now form the US and Irsrael. There isn't one. |
I hope desperately there is one, and they find it, becuase what israel is doing is fucking EXACTLY what Hamas wants. They want Israel to invade, kill a bunch of poeple, create new Martyrs, and ensure this hatred exists for another generation or two. And Israel is going to fucking do it. 

Do you think every Israeli soldier is as fucked up and malicious as that guy? The 650k Isralies that headed back to Israel and have been called up to Military service? Are they all that guy, in your estimation? Because that's what you're implying. And if you believe that, fine, but then you're no different than other posters who insist that every Palestininan is the same as HAMAS, and that all Palestinians are the same as the invaders who killed and abducted Israelis. 

Both sides have, and continue to do awful fucking shit. I recognize that. You apologize for one, while ignoring the other. 

Oh we’re doing this thing again lol.

[hobbes2702 12771]

2 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

I stand with Israel so long as it is respecting the human rights of civilians. That means Israel doesn't get to just shout "human shield" in bad faith while slaughtering innocent people. No, it's not justifiable if those civilians have offensive opinions or political leanings, either.

By the way, are they not just a little bit concerned that their own hostages could be killed by these indiscriminate bombings??

I think I saw reporting that already happened, the hostages I mean. I think though it was just Hamas claiming that so take it with a grain of salt. It’s just as likely, maybe more so, that they have been executed.

Edited October 13, 2023 by hobbes2702

['stache 21744]

1 minute ago, chainsaw said:

I stand with Israel so long as it is respecting the human rights of civilians. That means Israel doesn't get to just shout "human shield" in bad faith while slaughtering innocent people. No, it's not justifiable if those civilians have offensive opinions or political leanings, either.

By the way, are they not just a little bit concerned that their own hostages could be killed by these indiscriminate bombings??

My problem is this only comes up during conflicts and skirmishes (in this case likely all out war) and allows everyone to ignore Israel's conduct at all other times. It's unjust and it is no surprise whatsoever that terrorist factions arise out of the situation. But if I said that last part publicly, I'd be fired for being a genocidal anti-semite, or if I were at college, I'd be doxxed as hateful and supportive of terrorism. 

[SydneyCarton 47809]

5 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Polling generally makes it clear that the average Palestinian and the average Israeli want peace with each other.

It's the psychos in charge of both countries that don't.

I have gone down a polling arugment with Chainsaw. I cited a recent poll, and he cited a recent poll, and it wasn't clear the answer. Mine said more than 50% had a positive feeling of HAMAS. His said 70% want peace. That being said, we can certianly fucking agree that both ruling groups are fucking shit. 

You've accused me of being brainwashed by Western Media. What media should I be paying attention to that has this situation nailed?

 

[Anastasis 23375]

4 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Please. Offer up a suggestion. What should they do?

As an American, I think that we should first concern ourselves with what we do. A few thoughts, stop dumping endless arms and military funding into the region (including both Israel and Arab countries). That might be a good place to start.