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elfenix
elfenix

Babies decapitated by man with semi automatic rifle in the near east : turn it into glass! Babies decapitated by man with semi automatic rifle in Texas : nothing can be done

Evil Bill Obrien
Evil Bill Obrien

Coldest tweet I have seen in a very long time...damn  

TexArcher
TexArcher

Disclaimer: I've been pretty clearly anti-Israeli leadership and anti-radical Islam.  I don't see a good guy in this thing; I see two bad guys, and I think the most anyone could reasonably argue is th

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Jhawk

Jhawk 1075

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Acknowledge that Russia committed an act of war against our democracy and take appropriate steps to punish them and ensure it doesn't happen again.

For starters. 

So basically declare war on Russia. Glad your temperament isn’t signing the executive orders. 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18607

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Jhawk said:

Where has he rolled over?  Can you further define this?

He's rolled over in every foreign policy decision he's made. He gets nothing for the United States. He gets played. Bibi gets what he wants, Kim gets what he wants, China gets what it wants, Russia gets what it wants, Iranian hard liners get what they want. 

OK, he doesn't roll over for Europe. We screw our closest friends and allies.

 

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Jhawk

Jhawk 1075

Posted
Posted
Just now, David Dennison said:

He's rolled over in every foreign policy decision he's made. He gets nothing for the United States. He gets played. Bibi gets what he wants, Kim gets what he wants, China gets what it wants, Russia gets what it wants, Iranian hard liners get what they want. 

OK, he doesn't roll over for Europe. We screw our closest friends and allies.

 

Please cite specific examples.  What has Kim gotten?  What has Bibi gotten?  What has russia, china, and iran gotten?

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18607

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

Please cite specific examples.  What has Kim gotten?  What has Bibi gotten?  What has russia, china, and iran gotten?

Kim has gotten entry to the world stage and elevation to world leader. Bibi got the American embassy moved to Jerusalem. Russia has an American head of state who refuses to lift a finger when it comes to Russian cyber attacks on the United States, China is being allowed to enter new markets while we play trade wars, and Iranian hard-liners have gotten the United States to back out of the nuclear agreement, thereby freeing Iran to pursue a nuclear weapon.

What do we get?

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GHOSTUSER

GHOSTUSER 361

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

As an American Jew, it's weird to see essentially an entire political party care more about Israeli Jews then American ones.

Most American Jews are progressives that vote Democrat. Republicans have the Orthodox Jewish, Christian Zionist loons and hardline pro-Israel support of guys like Sheldon Adelson who dump a huge amount of cash. It’s not weird to see it from the perspective of a Republican politician with his hand out for campaign contributions.

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Chuckie Finster

Chuckie Finster 22583

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, zork said:

How so?

If you were to solely read the rhetoric towards Israel, you would come away with the impression that Trump's Republicans are staunch defenders of Jews, yet anti-semitism in America has currently reached levels I have never seen in my lifetime, Trump publicly defended Nazis last year, the Holocaust Remembrance Day statement made no mention of Jews, etc.

It's just strange to watch how when the situation is American Jews vs. American Nazis, the administration's stance is "both sides," but when it is Israeli Jews vs. Palestinians, suddenly there's only one side.

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Nivek

Nivek 16808

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, DixonHur said:

What makes you so sure we'll stay the world's biggest economy if our political influence wanes?

And are we going to "blow the shit" out of them like we did in Korea?  Or Vietnam?  Or Iraq?  Or Afghanistan?  Or Syria?  There's been so much winning since WWII it's hard to keep track of which model of success we should use.

Grenada Mother Fucker!  WoooooHooo!

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zork

zork 629

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

If you were to solely read the rhetoric towards Israel, you would come away with the impression that Trump's Republicans are staunch defenders of Jews, yet anti-semitism in America has currently reached levels I have never seen in my lifetime, Trump publicly defended Nazis last year, the Holocaust Remembrance Day statement made no mention of Jews, etc.

It's just strange to watch how when the situation is American Jews vs. American Nazis, the administration's stance is "both sides," but when it is Israeli Jews vs. Palestinians, suddenly there's only one side.

Thanks for your response.

 

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F250

F250 28659

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

If you were to solely read the rhetoric towards Israel, you would come away with the impression that Trump's Republicans are staunch defenders of Jews, yet anti-semitism in America has currently reached levels I have never seen in my lifetime, Trump publicly defended Nazis last year, the Holocaust Remembrance Day statement made no mention of Jews, etc.

It's just strange to watch how when the situation is American Jews vs. American Nazis, the administration's stance is "both sides," but when it is Israeli Jews vs. Palestinians, suddenly there's only one side.

Two separate pillars from his base are involved here. The alt-right racist pillar is appeased by the tacit approval of the racist uproar. The Christian Right is appeased by the Pro-Israel stance. One is focused on a domestic controversy and the other on a foreign controversy.

Trump has been consistent in appeasing his three groups of voters, pro-labor, alt-right and the Christian Right. He isn't as dumb as everyone thinks he is.

 

 

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Aqua Buddha

Aqua Buddha 14489

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, F250 said:

Two separate pillars from his base are involved here. The alt-right racist pillar is appeased by the tacit approval of the racist uproar. The Christian Right is appeased by the Pro-Israel stance. One is focused on a domestic controversy and the other on a foreign controversy.

Trump has been consistent in appeasing his three groups of voters, pro-labor, alt-right and the Christian Right. He isn't as dumb as everyone thinks he is.

 

 

This.  He also brags that he's the only one who can get them to the bargaining table but not once has he ever or will he ever ask them to give up anything.  Look at what happened with guns after his initial comments.

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DixonHur

DixonHur 11074

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Chuckie Finster said:

As an American Jew, it's weird to see essentially an entire political party care more about Israeli Jews then American ones.

They don't care about Israeli Jews, they care about the State of Israel which is needed for the biblical prophecy of the Rapture.  They give fuck all about Jews.  In the evangelical world, Jews, along with everyone else, not them, goes to Hell.

The Jeffress out front should have told ya...

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F250

F250 28659

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

This.  He also brags that he's the only one who can get them to the bargaining table but not once has he ever or will he ever ask them to give up anything.  Look at what happened with guns after his initial comments.

His only desirable outcome is ratings. He revels in theatrics to create a buzz without any meaningful productive governing other than the appearance of doing something. It really isn't much different than his Apprentice reality show.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45513

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, DixonHur said:

They don't care about Israeli Jews, they care about the State of Israel which is needed for the biblical prophecy of the Rapture. 

I don't believe this.  I was brought up in the church.  Ours was a highly theocratic branch (the northern version of Presbyterianism) but never once did I hear anything like the latest message of "we just need to get all the Jews back in Israel so they can be smoted".

The Evangelicals are nowhere near that strategic.  What they want is power, and money.  That's it.

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Tuco

Tuco 5076

Posted
Posted

My impression is that the white supremist / alt-right movement in America has evolved to focus more on blacks, Mexicans, and Muslims.  Sure, there is a general otherness to Jews and an historical antipathy to them, and that will play into some of the literature on banks/media/globalists/etc., but for the day to day, what's wrong with America type paranoia, that's going to be immigrants and blacks.   

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Fozzz

Fozzz 152

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I don't believe this.  I was brought up in the church.  Ours was a highly theocratic branch (the northern version of Presbyterianism) but never once did I hear anything like the latest message of "we just need to get all the Jews back in Israel so they can be smoted".

The Evangelicals are nowhere near that strategic.  What they want is power, and money.  That's it.

For those people supporting Israel is just another way of showing that you believe Muslims are subhuman.  

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Chuckie Finster

Chuckie Finster 22583

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Tuco said:

My impression is that the white supremist / alt-right movement in America has evolved to focus more on blacks, Mexicans, and Muslims.  Sure, there is a general otherness to Jews and an historical antipathy to them, and that will play into some of the literature on banks/media/globalists/etc., but for the day to day, what's wrong with America type paranoia, that's going to be immigrants and blacks.   

In regards to your stereotypical "As Seen on TV" burning a cross in a yard type of white supremacist, I'd agree with you.  But venture into any alt-right online forum, and the Jews are absolutely lumped in with the other minorities you listed, if not Public Enemy #1.

And my "anti-semitism is increasing" comment wasn't just anecdotal:

Quote

Anti-Semitic hate crimes are on the rise, up 57 percent in 2017 from 2016, the largest single-year jump on record, according to the Anti-Defamation League.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/17/sunday-review/anti-semitism-american-jews.html

 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18607

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

If the terrorists in Palestine really wanted peace, there would be peace in that area from here on out.

If Israel really wanted war with Palestine, Palestine would be no more.

Then recognize Palestine or annex the occupied territories once and for all.

Or does the status quo favor Israel? Hmmmmm.

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zork

zork 629

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Then recognize Palestine or annex the occupied territories once and for all.

Or does the status quo favor Israel? Hmmmmm.

Their systemic suicide bombing and Hamas leadership preclude them from being part of Israel for at least a century in my opinion.(but I don't have any say in it)

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hpslugga

hpslugga 4039

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 5/14/2018 at 11:18 PM, Iconoclast Texan said:

What is the endgame for the Palestinians?

Self-determination. They've been saying that since January of 1976 when we vetoed a Security Council resolution that the non-aligned countries brought forth and would have given them that had we not vetoed it. We vetoed a similar resolution in 1980 and have since vetoed every single time it came up in the General Assembly, all of this despite the fact that there's an overwhelming international consensus in favor of granting them this. 

Quote

What are the Israelis supposed to do with the West Bank?

Completely ignoring the reprehensible impropriety of that question, as Israel has not a stitch of legal entitlement to the West Bank whatsoever, those terms are clearly written and have been for over 50 years. This is neither rocket surgery nor brain science. 

Quote

They pulled out of Gaza

They occupy Gaza externally. When they say they "pulled out," all they really did was withdraw settlers/settlements and relocated them to the West Bank as settlements rapidly increased after the so-called "Gaza withdrawal." And the withdrawal was not a charitable act, either. They pulled out because Gaza was trending towards uninhabitability. For example, the drinking water is 90% unfit for human consumption. Most of the arable land is gone. But more relevant to your point, the IDF still monitors who can enter/exit, they have the blockade in place, they control the airspace, etc. That's not a real "pullout" in any meaningful sense. Again as Cameron put it, that's an "open-air prison," and since that's the case, one has to know that there's a warden, and it sure as shit isn't Hamas.

Quote

and their reward was Hamas taking over control and being assaulted by hidden tunnels and rockets.

1. Hamas didn't "take over," they won in an election that every single international monitoring agency (and it was one of the most heavily monitored elections in history) called "free and fair." Hamas won the election in 2006 because contrary to your apparent perception, Fatah is a group of retched collaborators, and the Palestinian population knows it full well. We aren't as well informed about it because we don't live there. We live in a country whose mainstream media espouses ridiculous talking points like "Saeb Erekat is smart" and "Mahmoud Abbas is a moderate," and we're all just supposed to nod in agreement and not burst into hysterical laughter. And that's not at all to defend Hamas. Hamas is a reprehensible organization. But that's how bad the opposition was, more on that later.

2. As to the issue of rockets, that's hardly a justification for what Israel regularly does to them (mowing the lawn). It's a severely overblown issue off of which even Israel continues to stooge itself. In its so-called "Operation Protective Edge," the MFA reported that over 7,000 rockets and mortar shells were fired and only 1 house in Israel was destroyed. That's because they're not "rockets." They're enhanced fireworks. In fact, Theodore Postol (the MIT professor that exposed the fraud of the Patriot Missile Defense system during the first Gulf War) gave Israel's so-called "Iron Dome" an efficacy percentage of about 5. That is, he estimated that Iron Dome deflected around 350 projectiles which is about half of what the MFA claimed (721, IIRC). Either way, that's a quibble between 5-10%. 40% of the "rockets" were basically duds, meaning they landed in the border area where there was no Iron Dome (because that's only located in major urban centers). And that's not even to excuse the very act of firing such fireworks, but ask yourself a question: what would the United States do if the Zetas fired such primitive weaponry from Nuevo Laredo into Texas? Well they may respond rather strictly, but one thing they very likely wouldn't do is launch airstrikes/drone-strikes/Marine raids/etc to such an extent that it would yield over 100,000 civilian casualties, but that's what Israel did when you adjust the numbers per capita. 

3. Like I said, even Israel stooged itself off its own propaganda. When they were trying to scare the living shit out of its citizenry about the tunnels and rockets, people fled and tourism took a nose dive. The MFA then toned down their rhetoric and in some cases would tell people that "everything's OK, you're not being targeted, etc." In fact, Michael Bloomberg went over there shortly after Protective Edge and said that Israel is "safe, and a great place to visit." That's not what you say when you visit a land that's being bombarded by rockets and tunnel crawlers. You say something like that when it's...not experiencing those things.

Quote

I don’t understand why Fatah doesn’t get their fucking house in order and prove to the world they are a legitimate partner for peace

Again, they're filthy collaborators that only look out for themselves. That may appear to be a "legitimate partner for peace" if the two sides were the whole of Israel and the leadership of the Palestinians, but that removes the Palestinian people entirely from the equation, and I'm sorry that you apparently believe this, but Fatah/The PA couldn't be bothered to give two shits about the Palestinian people. They know that and that's why they enjoy very little popular support. 

Quote

and can run an effective government serving the needs of their people.

There's not a shred of evidence to support that claim. They don't even know what those "needs" are and are only concerned about their own wants.

Quote

If they did that, then the Palestinians would put the Israelis in the unenviable position of being the modern equivalent of the South African apartheid government which had no legitimate leg to stand on.

They're already in that position and they have been for some time. If you read Avner Yaniv's rendering of the buildup to Israel's aggression against Lebanon in 1982 (where the PLO was headquartered), you'll notice that one of the prime movers of Israel's decision to do that was, to quote him, Arafat's "peace offensive," meaning his reaching towards negotiating the diplomatic settlement that they'd been seeking for the previous 6 years. The fact that Hamas is in the equation now is irrelevant because they have not at all rejected the principles of the 1988 Algiers Declaration.

There are a myriad of other facts and factors to review, to be sure, but the point is Israel (and the US, if you think it through) has been in a relatively cornered position since 1976 and it's just been excuse after excuse and lie after lie as to why this conflict hasn't been settled, despite the fact that a very broad international consensus supports the very framework of such a settlement, for 51 fucking years. 

Edited by hpslugga
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hpslugga

hpslugga 4039

Posted
Posted
Quote

If Israel really wanted war with Palestine, Palestine would be no more.

Israeli expansionism isn't that ADHD. Like someone else said, the status quo favors their aims long term. They don't need to wipe Palestine out in a single instant. They certainly could, and they're choosing not to do it, but that doesn't make what they do justified as the end result, long term, is functionally no different. When Arafat and the PA made that declaration in Algiers in 1988, Israel responded just months later by stating "there can be no additional Palestinian state [the implication being Jordan already is/was a Palestinian state] between Jordan and the Sea." Or you can go by the words of the "great man of peace" Shimon Peres when he said that a Palestinian state "will never happen," or an official from Netanyahu's first admin who said "If Palestinian sovereignty is limited enough so that we feel safe, call it fried chicken," or as Sharon put it, "Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them."

Again, they're in no hurry to grab the entire country right now. As they see it, they're doing just fine by installing a settlement bloc here and a settlement bloc there.

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GHOSTUSER

GHOSTUSER 361

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Imgur still doesn't work on here?  This shit is unacceptable.  

Note to Fozzz: use Tapatalk to post pictures. I want to see the t-shirt you picked for me. Are you going to buy it and send it to me?

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zork

zork 629

Posted
Posted

Hamas is the main problem, not to mention the population that elected them into leadership:

Quote

...

And even though the new document accepts the idea of a Palestinian state on1967 lines, this does not mean it foresees "any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea."

...

https://www.cnn.com/2017/05/01/middleeast/hamas-charter-palestinian-israeli/index.html

 

Hmm, from the river all the way to the sea?  Where would that leave room for Israel?  Hint, it is another way of saying drive the Israelis into the sea.  This in their official documentation.  

They, Hamas, are in effect at war with Israel.  It is known.

 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18607

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, zork said:

Hamas is the main problem, not to mention the population that elected them into leadership:

https://www.cnn.com/2017/05/01/middleeast/hamas-charter-palestinian-israeli/index.html

 

Hmm, from the river all the way to the sea?  Where would that leave room for Israel?  Hint, it is another way of saying drive the Israelis into the sea.  This in their official documentation.  

They, Hamas, are in effect at war with Israel.  It is known.

 

Yet Israel continues to string them along. It's almost like Israel benefits from having Hamas around.

 

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Fozzz

Fozzz 152

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Note to Fozzz: use Tapatalk to post pictures. I want to see the t-shirt you picked for me. Are you going to buy it and send it to me?

Doesn't it have to be specially tailored first?

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zork

zork 629

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Yet Israel continues to string them along. It's almost like Israel benefits from having Hamas around.

 

Israelis get to vote in PA leadership elections?  Israelis help write the Hamas charter documentation?  They build walls/fences to keep the suicide bombers out.

Edited by zork
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