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elfenix
elfenix

Babies decapitated by man with semi automatic rifle in the near east : turn it into glass! Babies decapitated by man with semi automatic rifle in Texas : nothing can be done

Evil Bill Obrien
Evil Bill Obrien

Coldest tweet I have seen in a very long time...damn  

TexArcher
TexArcher

Disclaimer: I've been pretty clearly anti-Israeli leadership and anti-radical Islam.  I don't see a good guy in this thing; I see two bad guys, and I think the most anyone could reasonably argue is th

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troph

troph 24781

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Posted
37 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

I applauded Biden going when he was meeting with all sides. Now that it is off meeting with the Arab leaders I don't want him to go. I am all in favor of diplomacy, but this will appear as if we only spoke to Israel and that dickhead Bibi. 

 

This is all true but he will be talking with Jordan and Egypt by phone on his way home. That won’t change any appearances but it can be substantive work.  

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InkaUtexas

InkaUtexas 25875

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10 minutes ago, troph said:

This is all true but he will be talking with Jordan and Egypt by phone on his way home. That won’t change any appearances but it can be substantive work.  

yeah, so he can call them. In the Arab streets this will go down poorly. Shit, I get on Teams call with 20+ all the time. They cannot do this virtual now since so many said nope, we are not going. Go when a message can be delivered. Something real. Not a photo op. Leave Blinken over there. That is why we have a Secretary of State. 

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troph

troph 24781

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9 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

yeah, so he can call them. In the Arab streets this will go down poorly. Shit, I get on Teams call with 20+ all the time. They cannot do this virtual now since so many said nope, we are not going. Go when a message can be delivered. Something real. Not a photo op. Leave Blinken over there. That is why we have a Secretary of State. 

I agree. I was just stating that it appears lines of communication are not closed.

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InkaUtexas

InkaUtexas 25875

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3 minutes ago, troph said:

I agree. I was just stating that it appears lines of communication are not closed.

If they are not going then they are. We have ambassadors who can share messages. We have Sec State who can go to meet in person. The US President getting of AF1 in Israel is not a good image. Meeting with Bibi is worse. Wanna see riots across the region, and the EU, go on this jaunt. 

Made sense before today. 

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TexArcher

TexArcher 37771

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Boss Hogg said:

At this point does it even matter who did it? It doesn’t matter to all the people in the streets across the Arab world. They will never be convinced that it was anyone other than Israel. Bad moon rising 

No.  Even if we get conclusive proof that it was an errant Hamas rocket, or even an intentional false flag op, the people demonstrating in Jordan and other places either won't hear it or won't believe it.

I'm afraid there's no putting the shit back in the horse this time.

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chainsaw

chainsaw 9859

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

If they are not going then they are. We have ambassadors who can share messages. We have Sec State who can go to meet in person. The US President getting of AF1 in Israel is not a good image. Meeting with Bibi is worse. Wanna see riots across the region, and the EU, go on this jaunt. 

Made sense before today. 

we can't afford MFA but we can afford to prop up Israel.

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troph

troph 24781

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Posted
1 hour ago, InkaUtexas said:

If they are not going then they are. We have ambassadors who can share messages. We have Sec State who can go to meet in person. The US President getting of AF1 in Israel is not a good image. Meeting with Bibi is worse. Wanna see riots across the region, and the EU, go on this jaunt. 

Made sense before today. 

I agree. I was just stating that it appears lines of communication are not closed.

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linux

linux 1660

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More on JDAMS:  Israel has JDAM kits that attach to three sizes of gravity bombs that deliver different sizes of warhead from 500-2000 lbs.  There are also plenty of photos of Israeli jets sortieing without the JDAM kits attached, just the gravity bombs. Those would also make a nice noise when released from an F-16 or F-15 at speed and the resulting explosion would look just the same as one with the kit attached. A gravity bomb would also be more likely to go off course and hit, say, a non-mil target, a bomb with a JDAM kit is not likely to miss. 

This is my theory, Israel is using dumb bombs, this is indisputable based on F-16 video evidence, this in itself proves they are not being safe with their targeting, also it could also be an errant artillery shell. (though less likely due to the fireball)

That said the lying about the rocket is also extremely bad, I don't think a rocket can be going supersonic in its ascent phase. The cameraman would have noticed. Whatever hit the hospital was in the terminal phase. Having EC-2 Hawkeyes in the area I am certain Biden knows if it was a plane though, this was an egg in his face and should take things seriously.

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Jhawkmvp

Jhawkmvp 1489

Posted
Posted

Joe told Netanyahu, "It appears that it was done by the other team, not you, but some people are not sure". Hope he is right and has solid intel that it was not the IDF; otherwise, and maybe regardless of the truth, he just stepped in it if it was not Hamas. 

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"It appears that it was done by the other team, not you, but some people are not sure," U.S. President Joe Biden said about Tuesday's deadly explosion at a Gaza hospital, alongside Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Wednesday morning in Tel Aviv.

The president said he was "Deeply sad and outraged by the explosion in the hospital in Gaza," adding that "we have to also bear in mind that Hamas does not represent all Palestinian people, and has brought them only suffering."

Biden reaffirmed his support for Israel, saying “I want to say to the people of Israel: Their courage, their commitment, their bravery, is stunning, it’s really stunning. I’m proud to be here.

"I'm very happy to be back in Israel. Thank you for having me. I'm looking forward to having a thorough discussion of where we go from here," Biden said.

In remarks before Biden spoke, Netanyahu said "Just as the civilized world united to defeat the Nazis and to defeat ISIS, it must be united to defeat Hamas. The forces of civilization will prevail for our sake, for your sake...and for the sake of peace and security."

 

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956 Worldwide

956 Worldwide 34704

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Now that it’s morning Palestinian TV footage is coming out and it should make anyone who is still dug in on “it was a JDAM/MK 80 bomb) take pause.”

Eliot Higgins from Bellingcat:

 

 

Honestly hard to see how 500 people died here.  And hard to believe a camera crew didn’t capture structure damage if that happened. 
 

But— embassies got attacked and Arab leaders called off a peace summit so it’s clear the news got a reaction.

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29347

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Definitely doesn’t seem like this could’ve been a bomb. Maybe one of those cars had explosives in it that got set off by the shrapnel from the disabled rocket? Who knows. But it definitely seems like the Gazan health ministry exaggerated the casualties.

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horn4life

horn4life 3759

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The problem is you have American elected government officials that do not care at all what the truth is.  they have repeated lies over, and over, and over until now the GOP as a whole is the most misinformed group of voters probably since Hitler was elected.  So truth has taken a big fall from grace, because American politicians have proven that a lie is as good as the truth when sold repeatedly by people in power.  Hamas is in power.  So they say whatever, and this is reinforced again and again.  Just like here in the United States.

Sadly it was less than a decade ago when the truth really did matter in the US.  Now we are a lot more like the Middle East where you CHOOSE "your truth."

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956 Worldwide 34704

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Posted

At this point there has been a torrent of evidence showing that the hospital blast was not caused by an Israeli air strike and that although it was a mass casualty event, 500 people are unlikely to have been killed. 
 

The burden should shift now to anyone who wants to claim otherwise to provide something other than the statements of Gaza authorities. 

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Da Fino

Da Fino 2776

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3 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

At this point there has been a torrent of evidence showing that the hospital blast was not caused by an Israeli air strike and that although it was a mass casualty event, 500 people are unlikely to have been killed. 
 

The burden should shift now to anyone who wants to claim otherwise to provide something other than the statements of Gaza authorities. 

Here you go. This guy says it seems like a JDAM.

15 hours ago, chainsaw said:

Have seen the video of the strike? I don't think their improvised munitions look like the this, which seems to be a JDAM.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/17/israel-hamas-war-news-gaza/#link-UVNAJKOHXRFCNC2Z4IPFMCIL54

 

 

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Poe It Up

Poe It Up 126

Posted
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23 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

At this point there has been a torrent of evidence showing that the hospital blast was not caused by an Israeli air strike and that although it was a mass casualty event, 500 people are unlikely to have been killed. 
 

The burden should shift now to anyone who wants to claim otherwise to provide something other than the statements of Gaza authorities. 

It landed in a parking lot and there’s no crater. There’s no debate anymore. 

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Beantown Express 2.0

Beantown Express 2.0 6559

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So Biden last night/today said his proof that the hospital destruction wasn’t from Israel but from Islamic Jihad (or whatever) wasn’t from the Israelis but from the Pentagon.  So, if true, the Pentagon and Israel are saying they have proof it wasn’t Israel and Hamas says it was and we have people on this thread believing Hamas because, why? I’m not saying Israel hasn’t done bad stuff ever but in this case it seems like they didn’t blow up the hospital and I notice everyone on this thread railing against them yesterday isn’t on this thread today saying, “my bad, guess it wasn’t them”.  Quite telling.

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Chuckie Finster

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5 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

So Biden last night/today said his proof that the hospital destruction wasn’t from Israel but from Islamic Jihad (or whatever) wasn’t from the Israelis but from the Pentagon.  So, if true, the Pentagon and Israel are saying they have proof it wasn’t Israel and Hamas says it was and we have people on this thread believing Hamas because, why? I’m not saying Israel hasn’t done bad stuff ever but in this case it seems like they didn’t blow up the hospital and I notice everyone on this thread railing against them yesterday isn’t on this thread today saying, “my bad, guess it wasn’t them”.  Quite telling.

The vast majority of humans believe ANYTHING that confirms their priors, and will endlessly attempt to discount whatever goes against them.  

We are not built for this.

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MC Fresh Breath

MC Fresh Breath 4074

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2 hours ago, longhornmatt said:

  I don’t think the terrorist organization who butchers people needed to draw inspiration from Lauren Boebert to realize they can lie about something with the purpose of inspiring more terrorism. 

True.  They most likely drew that inspiration from the State that butchers them with our aid.

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956 Worldwide 34704

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38 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

So Biden last night/today said his proof that the hospital destruction wasn’t from Israel but from Islamic Jihad (or whatever) wasn’t from the Israelis but from the Pentagon.  So, if true, the Pentagon and Israel are saying they have proof it wasn’t Israel and Hamas says it was and we have people on this thread believing Hamas because, why? I’m not saying Israel hasn’t done bad stuff ever but in this case it seems like they didn’t blow up the hospital and I notice everyone on this thread railing against them yesterday isn’t on this thread today saying, “my bad, guess it wasn’t them”.  Quite telling.

 
ABC news correspondent with non-named U.S. officials. 

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And the NSC Spox also confirms it:

I can predict with near 100 percent certainty that the discourse will shift from “of course it was Israel” to “the U.S. and Israel are just as unreliable as Hamas, despite the vast delta in evidence.” And then to “it doesn’t matter who actually bombed it because Israel is responsible for everything ultimately.” 

It will likely happen on this thread. 

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Beantown Express 2.0

Beantown Express 2.0 6559

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1 minute ago, 956 Worldwide said:

And the NSC Spox also confirms it:

I can predict with near 100 percent certainty that the discourse will shift from “of course it was Israel” to “the U.S. and Israel are just as unreliable as Hamas, despite the vast delta in evidence.” And then to “it doesn’t matter who actually bombed it because Israel is responsible for everything ultimately.” 

It will likely happen on this thread. 

It already has.

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UTGrad98

UTGrad98 2271

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Posted

 

53 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

The vast majority of humans believe ANYTHING that confirms their priors, and will endlessly attempt to discount whatever goes against them.  

We are not built for this.

The human race is reaching their Peter principle.

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babysdaddy

babysdaddy 2721

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Posted
2 hours ago, horn4life said:

The problem is you have American elected government officials that do not care at all what the truth is.  they have repeated lies over, and over, and over until now the GOP as a whole is the most misinformed group of voters probably since Hitler was elected.  So truth has taken a big fall from grace, because American politicians have proven that a lie is as good as the truth when sold repeatedly by people in power.  Hamas is in power.  So they say whatever, and this is reinforced again and again.  Just like here in the United States.

Sadly it was less than a decade ago when the truth really did matter in the US.  Now we are a lot more like the Middle East where you CHOOSE "your truth."

Democratic members of congress posting their truth. These two asswipes didn't say shit for days and then, when they could blame Israel for something regardless if was true or not, they were able to get a tweet out within minutes on the hospital bombing.  And they have left them up.  

 

 

 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31440

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Posted

Fuck.

I have been sorting my "feelings" on this for quite a while.  I tend to favor Israel while fully acknowledging their role in oppressing and harassing the occupied territories.

Therefore, I wanted this not to be true (IAF did it).  But I also acknowledge that there's a decent likelihood that it was true.

I am relieved that it is not true.  Also that the casualties appear to be far less than originally stated.  That's the best part of all.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31440

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

Democratic members of congress posting their truth. These two asswipes didn't say shit for days and then, when they could blame Israel for something regardless if was true or not, they were able to get a tweet out within minutes on the hospital bombing.  And they have left them up.  

 

 

 

Goddammit.  Just opening themselves up for more shit.  Deserved in this case? Probably.  But fuck.

Also, it's not a goddam Baptist hospital, it's Anglican/Episcopal.

Dumbfucks.

Also, fuck your fucking "Democratic members of Congress" as if that is the view of all Democrats.  These two are special cases.    At least Omar said "reportedly."

Edited by TwiceHorn
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BrazilHorn

BrazilHorn 6586

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Posted
34 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

Democratic members of congress posting their truth. These two asswipes didn't say shit for days and then, when they could blame Israel for something regardless if was true or not, they were able to get a tweet out within minutes on the hospital bombing.  And they have left them up.  

 

 

 

These congressional representatives are just pandering to the folks that elected them. If they didn’t believe these comments would land well back in their districts they wouldn’t say them. 
No different than Chip Roy’s tweets. Pander to their base. 

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troph

troph 24781

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Posted
1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Fuck.

I have been sorting my "feelings" on this for quite a while.  I tend to favor Israel while fully acknowledging their role in oppressing and harassing the occupied territories.

Therefore, I wanted this not to be true (IAF did it).  But I also acknowledge that there's a decent likelihood that it was true.

I am relieved that it is not true.  Also that the casualties appear to be far less than originally stated.  That's the best part of all.

everything you said is 100%.

What's most infuriating is that this back and forth where Hamas in plain daylight massacres civilians with impunity and with malice aforethought is then coupled with accusations that Israel did the same thing when an accident happens due to Hamas poor military technology but the world goes apeshit blaming Israel. Israel takes time to investigate, proves it wasn't Israel, but the damage is done.

Then there is a rinse and repeat. 

This pattern is infuriating.

The conversation of peacetime oppression is a different question and yes Israel is not without blame.  Yes civilians are killed in war and Israel as with any nation engaged in war kills civilians but more often than not when Hamas speaks it is a to stoke fear or a lie to blame Israel and the world just keeps licking it up.

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Guest

Guest

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Posted

Question regarding the talk of aid package to Israel. Um, for what? 

I understand Ukraine having to fight back against a massively larger aggressor. That makes sense to me. Russia has tanks, you better get some weapons to blow up tanks.

Israel is fighting a much smaller entity and has for decades prepared and known the risk of war on its doorstep. What exactly do they need aid for? 

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LCHorn

LCHorn 2615

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5 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Question regarding the talk of aid package to Israel. Um, for what? 

I understand Ukraine having to fight back against a massively larger aggressor. That makes sense to me. Russia has tanks, you better get some weapons to blow up tanks.

Israel is fighting a much smaller entity and has for decades prepared and known the risk of war on its doorstep. What exactly do they need aid for? 

Lost amidst all the talk of the ethics of retaliation is another aspect of this, which is that it appears the IDF is undermanned, under-equipped, and quite unable to put boots on the ground quickly as a future deterrent.  
 

I’m sure we have agreements to backstop them on supplies but your point is apt-how did you go through your munitions this quickly attacking a relatively small territory? 

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