Israel

[F250 28682]

I just got to the part of this thread about posters being hopelessly depressed.

 

[Nivek 16859]

21 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Where is this section 1091 coming from?

Source.  This seems largely consistent with the UN's definition.    

Does that help?  I didn't want to paraphrase.  

Edited October 25, 2023 by Nivek

[kevwun 15647]

I have it on good authority that Israel has a secret fleet of subs equipped with catapults.  We're fucked.

[chainsaw 9838]

26 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Source.  This seems largely consistent with the UN's definition.    

Does that help?  I didn't want to paraphrase.  

Here we go:

Quote

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

•     Killing members of the group;
•     Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
•     Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
•     Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
•     Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

I presume you're disputing whether Israel has the "intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group."

Or are you also disputing whether the enumerated acts have been committed?

[linux 1659]

11 minutes ago, kevwun said:

I have it on good authority that Israel has a secret fleet of subs equipped with catapults.  We're fucked.

They did royally fuckup season 8 with the long night, I sometimes wish I was never as influential as I am, I should have never recommened and D&D should have never read my post about catapults.

Am I wrong and out of touch? no, it is the writers that are wrong.

[statsman 5424]

36 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Here we go:

I presume you're disputing whether Israel has the "intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group."

Or are you also disputing whether the enumerated acts have been committed?

By that definition, isn’t Hamas committing genocide on the Palestinians in Gaza?

[chainsaw 9838]

1 minute ago, statsman said:

By that definition, isn’t Hamas committing genocide on the Palestinians in Gaza?

Maybe, but my tax dollars aren't to my knowledge bankrolling Hamas. I condemn Hamas with equal vigor.

[Nivek 16859]

23 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Here we go:

I presume you're disputing whether Israel has the "intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group."

Or are you also disputing whether the enumerated acts have been committed?

This is where I run into the issue where a broad interpretation can lead to this definition as becoming useless.  Germany invaded France and had intent to destroy part of a national group (French).  But what they did to the French is not the same as to what they did to the Roma or Jewish people.  What Pol Pot did to his own people was absolutely focused on intellectuals and was indeed genocidal.   I think this is why they intentionally left out political.   

So, no it do not think meets the qualifications.  Siege warfare but with supplies, warning civilians of an impending attack, these are not the acts of a genocidal campaign.    

But based on what the reporter wrote about the Israeli video of the attacks, those do seem to meet the criteria (expressed goal of murdering people just based on their religion or nationality.  However, I have not heard any other report which both confirms or denies the individual reporter's impression or the source material.   So I would refrain from using that label so flippantly, lest it lose its impact.

Of course, I may seem a bit hypocritical.  I call the B12 refs corrupt assholes and I believe they have marching orders or have personal grudges against select schools and definite bias.  There are many video recordings, images, and statistics to demonstrate this is not accidental.  So here I feel the term is warranted.   

[InkaUtexas 25516]

24 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Maybe, but my tax dollars aren't to my knowledge bankrolling Hamas. I condemn Hamas with equal vigor.

Hamas control Gaza. From 8 days ago. 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/10/18/u-s-announcement-of-humanitarian-assistance-to-the-palestinian-people/

 

[DDD Dad 14251]

13 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Dude you are out of your fucking mind. My solution was a suggestion of how to erode support for Hamas within Gazans and defeat them diplomatically. I didn't say it was very realistic, in fact, in discussing it with Brisket I literally said the direct opposite. I understand that it's incredibly unlikely for such a solution to be implemented at this point. I did say, however, that I do prefer a difficult solution to one that involves genocide. Holy shit, how crazy, fuck me right? Also, I should note that I never advocated for a diplomatic solution with Hamas, I suggested that the olive branch be extended to the people, in spite of and in defiance of Hamas, who doesn't want that any more than Netanyahu's government does. I understand that you are incredibly horny to conflate all Gazans with Hamas, like some of the people that have brayed for blood in the DT thread, but....you know. Stop it.

Also, Netanyahu absolutely is a right-wing psycho, as is his cabinet full of far-right, religious extremist, ultranationalist bloodthirsty freaks like Itamar Ben-Gvir. Since you just love bringing up the Oslo accords, and subsequently placing 100% of the blame on Palestinians (like you do with everything else), why don't you talk about how the aforemention literal current natsec minister for Israel was among a group of far-right extremist Israelis that threatened the life of, and subsequently assassinated their own PM for signing the accords in the first place. Why don't you talk about how the failure of the accords was almost certainly mostly related to the continued [illegal] expansion into the West Bank, the fact that there were MAJOR sticking points that were left entirely unresolved or ignored by the time it came to sign them, among other things.

The "tried and rejected many times" narrative that you and others try to push in this thread is a fucking reductionist, ahistorical canard that has been discussed and debunked many times over the past decades, but it just keeps coming up because the freak show that is Western media won't stop shoveling it and other bullshit down our throats. You're welcome to watch the video I linked earlier to learn why I say that.

You really need to stop demanding solutions from people you are discussing this situation with on a fucking sports message board. You can stop being a debate pervert for one day, I promise you it will feel good. Half of this post is just literal fucking word salad and I can't figure out what you're trying to say or trying to get me to say. It's like having a flashback to trying to have a conversation with the OP of this thread.

It's incredibly cute and slightly pathetic that you're literally trying to claim victory as if this is some kind of game to you. Be better than that, again, this isn't a debatelord space.

 

4 hours ago, Nivek said:

Let me translate this:

Insult.  I don't know what I am talking about.  Insult.  Evidence which is immaterial.  Big words.  Irrelevant statements trying to pivot away from your failure mixed with insults.

Quite the retort you had. 

------------------------------

This is kind of amusing to me, otherwise I wouldn't participate.   Yet, I am not the one hurling insults and claiming others who disagree with me must be bigoted.  You are the one who stated what Israel was doing was wrong, IIRC called it genocide (it is not) and blamed them for being equally bad.  You falsely equivocate two groups because it is easy, lazy thinking.  And when pressed, you simply refuse to acknowledge the facts and go back to insults and misrepresentations.  Yes, Rabin was murdered by extremists within the Israeli society.  But Netanyahu honored the agreement.  Then what happened? (you don't want to answer this because you know it weakens your hope for a new treaty). 

This is a discussion board, one centered around politics.  That you cannot participate like an adult is really a reflection of your own shortcomings, not mine.  I asked you questions based on your statements.  I am in no position to demand anything from you.  You were under no obligation to answer or reply, but you did.  You were the one who claimed to have a solution but it was really just wishful thinking.  A nice sentiment really.  But one unburdened by the complexities of reality.   Much like how Chainsaw thinks I should receive repatriation of my ancestral lands.  

The world would be better off if we could just lock up the members of Hamas and the Lukid party in a room together give them a bunch of knives and seal the doors off and surround it in 20 feet of concrete.  But since that isn't going to happen it is little more than fantasy.   It is a less nice sentiment, better than the current situation, but also unburdened by reality.  

You might have been better off just saying "this sucks, I hate the loss of life and harm that is coming to people due to the actions of the militants.  I wish there were a simple solution to resolve it, but I fear we will be seeing this play out again and again in my lifetime."   Everyone would agree with that sentiment (well most of us would).  

 

 

4 hours ago, chainsaw said:

How are you defining genocide?

Y'all should get a room and fuck.

[chainsaw 9838]

1 hour ago, InkaUtexas said:

Hamas control Gaza. From 8 days ago. 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/10/18/u-s-announcement-of-humanitarian-assistance-to-the-palestinian-people/

 

I think you understand the difference between sending humanitarian aid and sending billions and weapons.

[InkaUtexas 25516]

11 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

I think you understand the difference between sending humanitarian aid and sending billions and weapons.

The statement was to show that the US, as well as Arab states provide aid. 

And yes I do. Rafah should be open. Israel should not hit it. 

What is your point? 

[chainsaw 9838]

25 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

The statement was to show that the US, as well as Arab states provide aid. 

And yes I do. Rafah should be open. Israel should not hit it. 

What is your point? 

For reference:

I condemn Hamas, and the US is not knowingly or intentionally providing money or weapons to Hamas.

I condemn genocide, but the US is funding a hostile occupying force that, by definition, is engaged in genocide (unless you believe they are somehow unaware or unintentionally killing a certain group people who had been corralled into a tiny strip of land on the basis of their race).

[statsman 5424]

2 hours ago, chainsaw said:

For reference:

I condemn Hamas, and the US is not knowingly or intentionally providing money or weapons to Hamas.

I condemn genocide, but the US is funding a hostile occupying force that, by definition, is engaged in genocide (unless you believe they are somehow unaware or unintentionally killing a certain group people who had been corralled into a tiny strip of land on the basis of their race).

Question- you call Israel an “occupying force”. Please describe the geography of the land they are occupying, its borders and such. 

[chainsaw 9838]

4 minutes ago, statsman said:

Question- you call Israel an “occupying force”. Please describe the geography of the land they are occupying, its borders and such. 

Are you asking this question in good faith?

[statsman 5424]

1 minute ago, chainsaw said:

Are you asking this question in good faith?

I’m trying to figure out what you think Israel is occupying. Are you saying it is occupying the Gaza Strip?

The West Bank?

Or are you saying that Israel is occupying the territory that my map calls “Israel”?

[chainsaw 9838]

Just now, statsman said:

I’m trying to figure out what you think Israel is occupying. Are you saying it is occupying the Gaza Strip?

The West Bank?

Or are you saying that Israel is occupying the territory that my map calls “Israel”?

So you are or aren't asking in good faith?

I'll be charitable for now and assume that you are asking in good faith.

My answer in two parts.

First, my opinion doesn't matter so much. All of the varying borders were controversial at the time of their respective establishments and I won't begrudge anyone who believes, and can prove, that their ancestral home was taken when those borders were established.

Second, even if are talking about the West Bank, there are settlements within it that are illegal, and the restrictions applicable to Palestinian residents within it, pretty fairly fit the definition of hostile occupation.

I'm aware that some people believe simply acknowledging these facts is akin to denying Israel's right to exist. That is, in my view, a bad faith interpretation (a strawman argument).

There is no problem with Israel (or whatever you want to call it) existing; the problem lies with where and how it has been implemented. I believe those problems are solvable, peacefully, and I condemn all hostilities and intimidation tactics that claim to be undertaken in the name of liberation or security.

Which brings me back to the point I was originally making about how I don't support my tax dollars being used to subsidize acts of terror (if the tax dollars are somehow provided to Hamas) nor do I support them being used to pay for a genocide campaign. We had been discussing whether Israel's actions in Gaza fit the definition of genocide.

We will have to agree to disagree about Israel's intentions being "political" but at least I understand where he's coming from.

[statsman 5424]

It’s a hard one to unravel, even for us graduates of the University of Comancheria at Austin. 
 
I grieve for the Palestinians. It is a real humanitarian crisis. I don’t expect Israel to relieve the crisis. Hamas has taken a couple hundred hostages, civilians, children, to keep the IDF from storming in, and that is an effective tactic (do you grieve for the hostages?). Letting Gaza stew in famine and disease is the only counter tactic Israel has. Taking care of Israelis is Israel’s job. Taking care of Gazans is Hamas’ job. 
 
I don’t blame the allies for the humanitarian disaster in 1945 Germany; I blame the Nazis for starting the war they could not win, and fighting so cruelly. 
 
I don’t blame the US for the humanitarian disaster in 1945 Japan, not even Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I blame Imperial Japan, for starting a fight they could never win, and fighting so cruelly. 
 
I don’t blame the north (counter to how I was raised in Georgia) for the humanitarian disaster in 1863 Savannah and Atlanta. I blame the CSA for starting a war it could never win. 
 
I don’t blame Israel for the humanitarian disaster in Gaza. I blame Hamas, for starting a war it can’t win, and fighting so cruelly. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by statsman

[statsman 5424]

(I’m not proud of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. All I can say there is- we were at war with monsters and to defeat them, we did monstrous things)

[Chuckie Finster 22600]

As a Jew, I’m obviously sensitive to stuff like this and not at all coming from a place of neutrality, but can anyone explain how ripping photos of Israeli hostages from public areas advances the cause? Can anyone explain how breaking the windows of local Jewish owned businesses advances the cause? Can anyone explain how trapping Jewish American college students inside a library while banging on the doors and taunting them advances the cause?

I think Putin is a monster and I think Ukraine is 100% in the right in that battle, but if I stumbled upon a display of missing Russian citizens I wouldn’t think in a million years to deface it or try to tear it down. Why the hell do so many unaffiliated third parties feel it is acceptable in this case?

There’s one time-tested answer that comes to mind, but I’ve been assured that can’t be the case so I guess we’ll never know.

[mchookem 16212]

i've been kind of wondering/watching for any violence or clashes here in Denver, as there is a pretty large Jewish population here. combine that with a significant immigrant population in Aurora, lots of which seem to be from the ME or Africa...i was initially worried there would be some conflicts here. but so far it's been pretty peaceful, some protests on campuses and such but i haven't heard about anything turning violent, or even destructive like vandalism, than goodness. 

[linux 1659]

11 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

As a Jew, I’m obviously sensitive to stuff like this and not at all coming from a place of neutrality, but can anyone explain how ripping photos of Israeli hostages from public areas advances the cause? Can anyone explain how breaking the windows of local Jewish owned businesses advances the cause? Can anyone explain how trapping Jewish American college students inside a library while banging on the doors and taunting them advances the cause?

I think Putin is a monster and I think Ukraine is 100% in the right in that battle, but if I stumbled upon a display of missing Russian citizens I wouldn’t think in a million years to deface it or try to tear it down. Why the hell do so many unaffiliated third parties feel it is acceptable in this case?

There’s one time-tested answer that comes to mind, but I’ve been assured that can’t be the case so I guess we’ll never know.

Ironically it has been the more reasonable side preventing the hostages from being killed.

Biden has thrown a lot of strategic cold water on the invasion

Bibi wants to delay the day of reckoning for as long as possible

Pro-Palestinian voices have wanted to prevent a humanitarian tragedy from happening, even if bombings are still killing children.

 

Compare this to Oct 8 when Israel essentially declared the hostages dead and the bloodlust was running high. 

[Poe It Up 126]

13 hours ago, statsman said:

(I’m not proud of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. All I can say there is- we were at war with monsters and to defeat them, we did monstrous things)

Honestly, it was probably better than Operation Downfall (invasion of Japan). You’re looking at millions of US casualties and 5-10 million dead Japanese. All the while the Soviets gobble up china and Korea, expanding their empire. 

[statsman 5424]

8 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Honestly, it was probably better than Operation Downfall (invasion of Japan). You’re looking at millions of US casualties and 5-10 million dead Japanese. All the while the Soviets gobble up china and Korea, expanding their empire. 

I agree with that argument. There are other arguments, too, that are good. 
 
Fact remains, we dropped nukes on civilian population centers. I believe it is possible to approve of the decision without being proud of it. (Insert gif of Truman handing Oppenheimer a tissue)

[chainsaw 9838]

Does anyone still believe all these bombs are targeting anything other than civilians?

[Skipper 6103]

39 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Does anyone still believe all these bombs are targeting anything other than civilians?

Huh?  You mean like the one that just led to the death of a high ranking Hamas POS?  Looks to me like they are targeting terrorists.

[chainsaw 9838]

27 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Huh?  You mean like the one that just led to the death of a high ranking Hamas POS?  Looks to me like they are targeting terrorists.

one bomb out of 6,000+?

[Skipper 6103]

6 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

one bomb out of 6,000+?

Give me a break.   You probably believe the hospital hoax as well.  If they didn't care about civilians, Israel would turn the entire strip into rubble.  But when terrorists strategically place rocket launchers next to preschools, collateral damage happens.

[linux 1659]

2 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Give me a break.   You probably believe the hospital hoax as well.  If they didn't care about civilians, Israel would turn the entire strip into rubble.  But when terrorists strategically place rocket launchers next to preschools, collateral damage happens.

For the record Israel cares, but only for PR purposes not humanitarian.

You see it all the time on pro israeli forums the sight of dead children does not phase them, I imagine it is no different in the IDF

[chainsaw 9838]

6 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Give me a break.   You probably believe the hospital hoax as well.  If they didn't care about civilians, Israel would turn the entire strip into rubble.  But when terrorists strategically place rocket launchers next to preschools, collateral damage happens.

I don't think there's been an independent investigation that has drawn any firm conclusions. I do know that latest IDF narrative has been walked back by NYT.

[Skipper 6103]

5 minutes ago, linux said:

For the record Israel cares, but only for PR purposes not humanitarian.

 

Even if that were the case, at least they aren't actively targeting and shooting women and children for sport like the terrorists they are fighting.  You guys can "both sides" this all you want but I have absolutely zero fucking problem with their response to date given what occurred.

[chainsaw 9838]

4 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

Wait, are you saying you think that IDF bombed the Gaza hospital from a couple weeks back?

I'm saying we don't know if they did or didn't yet.

[chainsaw 9838]

6 minutes ago, Skipper said:

they aren't actively targeting and shooting women and children for sport like the terrorists they are fighting.

They are indiscriminately bombing civilians, which is functionally if not morally indistinguishable from actively targeting them. And they're killing far more civilians than were killed on Oct 7.

[Chuckie Finster 22600]

20 minutes ago, linux said:

For the record Israel cares, but only for PR purposes not humanitarian.

You see it all the time on pro israeli forums the sight of dead children does not phase them, I imagine it is no different in the IDF

"The sight of dead children does not phase Israelis" is an insanely broad generalization, incorrect, and not helpful in any way to this discussion.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Chuckie Finster

[Skipper 6103]

3 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

They are indiscriminately bombing civilians, which is functionally if not morally indistinguishable from actively targeting them. And they're killing far more civilians than were killed on Oct 7.

They are bombing terrorist military targets in response to a targeted killing of Israeli civilians.  Hamas uses civilians as human shields because they are subhuman fucks.  But you go ahead and keep sympathizing with them.  

[chainsaw 9838]

2 minutes ago, Skipper said:

They are bombing terrorist military targets

This is a damned lie.

2 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

What would convince you? What level of corroboration? 

An independent, unbiased investigation.

[Brian Fantana 6668]

5 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

"The sight of dead children does not phase Israelis" is an insanely broad generalization, incorrect, and not helpful in any way to this discussion.

Correct. It doesn't faze Netanyahu and his government. I'm sure that every day Israelis hate it as much as anyone else does.

[Chuckie Finster 22600]

2 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Correct. It doesn't faze Netanyahu and his government. I'm sure that every day Israelis hate it as much as anyone else does.

If you're going to ask the Israelis to differentiate between the leaders and the civilians of Palestine, then you gotta do the same in return.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Chuckie Finster

[chainsaw 9838]

4 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

If you're going to ask the Israelis to differentiate between the leaders and the civilians of Palestine, then you gotta do the same in return.

This is a good and fair take. I believe you'd hear way more moderate voices from Palestine once we turn the temperature down.

[Brian Fantana 6668]

12 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

If you're going to ask the Israelis to differentiate between the leaders and the civilians of Palestine, then you gotta do the same in return.

I have. Repeatedly. My beef is not with Jewish people or the people of Israel. It gets really tiring continually explaining this concept to adults.

[linux 1659]

1 hour ago, Skipper said:

Even if that were the case, at least they aren't actively targeting and shooting women and children for sport like the terrorists they are fighting.  You guys can "both sides" this all you want but I have absolutely zero fucking problem with their response to date given what occurred.

But it still does not dissuade my logic for what I do what I do, if the only thing stopping Israel from committing genocide is me screaming at the top of my lungs, then yeah I will scream at the top of my lungs.

 

[linux 1659]

1 hour ago, Chuckie Finster said:

"The sight of dead children does not phase Israelis" is an insanely broad generalization, incorrect, and not helpful in any way to this discussion.

Well I participate in online discussions and I have never seen the safeguards I would expect from people I would entrust to do the right thing, I saw every single video the IDF put out showing the massacre, because it was my responsability to see what hamas did and not just do "don't see evil".

But I don't see this from Israelis, and if I don't see this from suppsedly left wing Israelis, and see pure bloodlust from right wing ones then yeah I am not giving Israel the benefit of the doubt.

[Chuckie Finster 22600]

12 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

I have. Repeatedly. My beef is not with Jewish people or the people of Israel. It gets really tiring continually explaining this concept to adults.

"you" meaning the greater you and not you specifically... although I have seen many instances (again, not from you) of blatant antisemitism hidden behind "anti-zionism is not antisemitism!!"  It's not a get out of jail free card.

11 minutes ago, linux said:

Well I participate in online discussions and I have never seen the safeguards I would expect from people I would entrust to do the right thing, I saw every single video the IDF put out showing the massacre, because it was my responsability to see what hamas did and not just do "don't see evil".

But I don't see this from Israelis, and if I don't see this from suppsedly left wing Israelis, and see pure bloodlust from right wing ones then yeah I am not giving Israel the benefit of the doubt.

I appreciate your honesty, but this is an INSANE statement.  Seeing someone create a definitive opinion of an entire group of people based off of folks you meet in a message board is truly very worrisome.

[linux 1659]

6 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

I appreciate your honesty, but this is an INSANE statement.  Seeing someone create a definitive opinion of an entire group of people based off of folks you meet in a message board is truly very worrisome.

How else am I supposed to form an opinion then?

I am not being snarky I honestly want to know.

Edited October 26, 2023 by linux

[Skipper 6103]

10 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Seeing someone create a definitive opinion of an entire group of people based off of folks you meet in a message board is truly very worrisome.

Ever visited Texags.com?

[SimonBolivar 10923]

On 10/25/2023 at 12:29 AM, Anastasis said:

Fried masa and cornmeal, chili, cheese, white onion, maybe slight variations on the proportions involved but it is essentially the same dish. And certainly the same food group. 

My frito pie doesn't usually have chocolate as an ingredient. 

[Brian Fantana 6668]

11 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

"you" meaning the greater you and not you specifically... although I have seen many instances (again, not from you) of blatant antisemitism hidden behind "anti-zionism is not antisemitism!!"  It's not a get out of jail free card.

Absolutely, seeing this from a lot of people ranging from simple ignorance to straight up neo Nazi agitprop. It's important not to fall for racist canards no matter which side you're arguing for in a given moment.

I saw the video from yesterday (?) of the guy in the car just spewing vile hatred at this person on a bike for being Jewish. Absolutely broke my mind, I just can't fathom how people can reach such a state of mind.

[Chuckie Finster 22600]

8 minutes ago, linux said:

How else am I supposed to form an opinion then?

I am not being snarky I honestly want to know.

You're obviously free to form an opinion, just make sure you caveat that this opinion is already filtered down to those that have chosen to discuss the topic on that particular forum.  That is not a representative basis for the population as a whole.

Echoing Skipper's point, would you want someone from another country drawing definitive conclusions about Texans based on Texags?

[Brian Fantana 6668]

13 minutes ago, linux said:

How else am I supposed to form an opinion then?

I am not being snarky I honestly want to know.

There are plenty of Israeli leftists speaking out, as are plenty of Jewish anti-Zionists. You're not looking in the right places. Listen to what this man has to say, Dr. Ofer Cassif, member of the Knessit.

The reason you might not be hearing as many voices as you think you should is that speaking out in favor of Palestinians inside Israel is very dangerous right now. People don't want to be arrested or worse.

 

[chainsaw 9838]

5 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

There are plenty of Israeli leftists speaking out, as are plenty of Jewish anti-Zionists. You're not looking in the right places. Listen to what this man has to say, Dr. Ofer Cassif, member of the Knessit.

The reason you might not be hearing as many voices as you think you should is that speaking out in favor of Palestinians inside Israel is very dangerous right now. People don't want to be arrested or worse.

 

All of this. Many voices within Israel are being silenced by an authoritarian government. The kind of stuff they are trying to do here in the US, in terms of controlling the narrative and discourse, would have made Michael Flynn blush.