PMP Training / Certification

[Jerry Callo 8959]

My wife's company is giving her the opportunity to get her PMP certification.  She doesn't have a business or management degree, but she has been working with a high-tech widget company as a planner and manager for several years.  Any recommendations for PMP training and certification in Austin?  I think she would do best with a longer term training course as opposed to a few day boot camp.

TIA

[Gil Bang 26235]

when your wife needs some PIMP training, send her to me.

[crash_davis 23470]

who's paying for the 40 hr course requirement?  if she's been doing PMP work and actually semi working under PMP guidelines as part of her day to day responsibilities, i suggest she take the a boot camp.  if she knows nothing about PMP or project management, then she needs a full blown course.  however, if she's not doing any PM work, i'm not sure how she is going to pass the experience requirement in order to take the PMP.

many years ago (2010) i took my PMP course from St. Ed's professional learning center.  i passed the PMP without ever reading the PMBOK book and only half read the book recommended by the course.  but i'm smart like that.  i have 2 friends who failed their first time taking the test.  i've had other friends pass but studied much longer than i did.  her mileage may vary.

[Jerry Callo 8959]

Thanks for the info, CD.  Not sure really what it means to be doing PM work.  She keeps the engineers, drafters, purchasers, assemblers, and project managers on task for their respective projects.  She runs meetings with the above players and schedules jobs based upon priority and lead times.  She's been doing that for the last 12-15 years.

Her company is paying for the course.

Edited April 24, 2019 by Jerry Callo

[crash_davis 23470]

not sure if it's still a requirement.  i'm pretty sure that it is.  you have to have x many hours experience performing PM work broken out by the 5 phases: planning, initiating, executing, monitoring, and closing.  i think that's still a requirement.  she may audited if they don't believe her projects, work, and hours.  this is required before they will approve her to take the exam.  x many hours of professional experience and 40 hours of course work.

[Updawg 2385]

Sounds like she has the experience

[Nice Guy Eddie 13729]

yeah, the PMBOK book is worthless in terms of passing the test.  Everyone buys it but most take a class or read a study guide that tells you to ignore it. 

My main advice is that she needs to apply and register before the training class.  Then schedule the test to be as close to the end of the training (boot camp or longer sessions.) One problem with this is that she has to be able to document 30 or 35 hours of training in order to apply.  The application was about as painful as studying for the test.

Lastly, don't try to apply real world logic.  Memorize the the main phases and steps, and the handful of formulas, and anyone should pass.

 

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

yeah, the PMBOK book is worthless in terms of passing the test.  Everyone buys it but most take a class or read a study guide that tells you to ignore it. 

My main advice is that she needs to apply and register before the training class.  Then schedule the test to be as close to the end of the training (boot camp or longer sessions.) One problem with this is that she has to be able to document 30 or 35 hours of training in order to apply.  The application was about as painful as studying for the test.

Lastly, don't try to apply real world logic.  Memorize the the main phases and steps, and the handful of formulas, and anyone should pass.

 

How do you document the PM work you've done to be accepted? I've done PM work for the past 15 years, in title and practice, and wouldn't have a clue what to show for that. 

I've been thinking about taking it too, but I heard it's hard as hell. You make it sound like it's not. But maybe tests are your thing. They're not mine. 

[Hate 20247]

I just passed the test last week (first try). I took the Edwel crash course and then took practice exams for a few weeks before the test. The test was very difficult. It’s really nothing like the practice tests although they were helpful. And as someone mentioned earlier, documenting you PM experience and getting it accepted is almost a big a pain in the ass as the test.

 

Edit: as to how to register, PMI makes you take a 35 hour course and document 4000 hours of PM experience in the last 7 years if you have a degree or 7000 if you don’t have a degree. You’ll register in their website and then there is a form where you will document your hours. Only after you’ve taken the course and had your hours approved will they send you a code to register for the test. And like I said before, the test was very difficult. It is 200 questions and you have 4 hours of running clock to finish it. The questions are weighted so it’s possible that you get a really difficult test and have to answer fewer questions correctly, or you could get an easier test and have to get more correct. There could also be a lot of “math” questions about CPI and SPI. I only had 2 of them so I was lucky I guess, although I memorized about 20 different formulas for nothing.

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13729]

2 hours ago, BBQ2Bayou said:

How do you document the PM work you've done to be accepted? I've done PM work for the past 15 years, in title and practice, and wouldn't have a clue what to show for that. 

I've been thinking about taking it too, but I heard it's hard as hell. You make it sound like it's not. But maybe tests are your thing. They're not mine. 

You just have to document and describe  the work. You break down the hours by phase of project along with the approximate dates.  It doesn’t have to be perfect. Except if you get randomly audited, then you need to find someone that will sign off on the work.  Fyi, if you’re caught exaggerating your work history, they may ban you for life. 

The test wasn’t easy. But there are test taking tricks to make it less difficult.  I crammed for it over a weekend after taking a semester long grad course that taught the test  

Getting the PMP certificate doesn’t make you a good PM.  But it helps you demonstrate that you have some level of knowledge.  I find that some people and companies require it and others could care less.  In other words, it doesn’t hurt and can only help your career. 

[Hate 20247]

I forgot to mention that the test is $400 pass or fail. The instructor for the class I took said that only 30% of people pass the test the first time. I can’t find anything online to verify that, but the lady at the test center where I took the test said that most people do not pass it the first time.

[Baboontyme 2883]

This thread made me check my credential. I knew it was suspended but looks like it's going to expire in about 5  weeks if I don't log 60 PDUs. Anyone know of a good easy place to get free PDUs? 

[Hate 20247]

18 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

yeah, the PMBOK book is worthless in terms of passing the test.  Everyone buys it but most take a class or read a study guide that tells you to ignore it. 

My main advice is that she needs to apply and register before the training class.  Then schedule the test to be as close to the end of the training (boot camp or longer sessions.) One problem with this is that she has to be able to document 30 or 35 hours of training in order to apply.  The application was about as painful as studying for the test.

Lastly, don't try to apply real world logic.  Memorize the the main phases and steps, and the handful of formulas, and anyone should pass.

 

I didn't see this highlighted part when I originally read the thread, but this cannot be stressed enough.  Do not apply your experience to the PMP exam.  You should know the inputs, tools, and outputs of every process group.  On my test, I had a lot of questions where the "correct" answer was an output of a process group that was not available to select.  You have to now that an output of one process is an input of a different process. Also, the questions tend to be tricky in that there will be an entire paragraph describing a scenario and then the question asks something that makes the paragraph completely irrelevant. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13729]

2 minutes ago, Hate said:

I didn't see this highlighted part when I originally read the thread, but this cannot be stressed enough.  Do not apply your experience to the PMP exam.  You should know the inputs, tools, and outputs of every process group.  On my test, I had a lot of questions where the "correct" answer was an output of a process group that was not available to select.  You have to now that an output of one process is an input of a different process. Also, the questions tend to be tricky in that there will be an entire paragraph describing a scenario and then the question asks something that makes the paragraph completely irrelevant. 

Great advice.  I was using the wrong words but as Hate says there are ~47 processes, each with inputs and outputs, and "tools & techniques" that get from the input to the output.  The outputs of one process become the inputs for another.  https://projectmanagementacademy.net/articles/five-traditional-process-groups/

This is how one process looks:

 

Several people have asked about how easy or hard the test is for most people. You really need to memorize and understand the 47 processes, and recall how they relate to each other.  47 processes each with multiple inputs, tools and outputs.  When you're deep in preparation for the test, you feel far away from running a real project.  Instead you're caught up in the science of project management. 

If you're not willing to get into that level of studying, I wouldn't waste your time starting. If I had to take the test again after having a PMP certificate for 10 years, I don't know if I would.

[dirtonia 271]

I know plenty of dumbasses that passed their first time.

These certs didn’t really move the needle for me when I was a hiring manager.

[crash_davis 23470]

unless it's entry when i interview for PM positions, i only look for PMPs.  if i'm hiring for a senior level pm position, pmp certs are a must.  there are a shitton of PMPs but it may help you get past the first qualification for some making hiring decisions.

 

nice guy eddie has it right.  you MUST understand the inputs, techniques, and outputs between the phases.

[crash_davis 23470]

4 hours ago, Baboontyme said:

This thread made me check my credential. I knew it was suspended but looks like it's going to expire in about 5  weeks if I don't log 60 PDUs. Anyone know of a good easy place to get free PDUs? 

there are some free ways but the easiest albeit expensive way is to take online courses.  many are accredited to PMI so validating course work and PDUs is easy after you complete the course.  pay attention to the PDU categories.  x many hours are required in each category.

[Player 4610]

You down with PMP? 

Yeah, you know me. 

[Hate 20247]

unless it's entry when i interview for PM positions, i only look for PMPs.  if i'm hiring for a senior level pm position, pmp certs are a must.  there are a shitton of PMPs but it may help you get past the first qualification for some making hiring decisions.
 
nice guy eddie has it right.  you MUST understand the inputs, techniques, and outputs between the phases.

You don’t happen to be hiring in the Houston area, do you?

[crash_davis 23470]

10 minutes ago, Hate said:

 

You don’t happen to be hiring in the Houston area, do you?

 

no.  it was for positions in austin.  that was my previous company.  are you looking?  

[Hate 20247]

Yes I am. 

[Baboontyme 2883]

1 hour ago, crash_davis said:

there are some free ways but the easiest albeit expensive way is to take online courses.  many are accredited to PMI so validating course work and PDUs is easy after you complete the course.  pay attention to the PDU categories.  x many hours are required in each category.

Yeah. I did this last time I ran into this situation. Probably is my company got bought out by a bigger org now and I can't get it reimbursed without jumping through major hoops or perhaps not at all. I don't feel like dropping $400+ out of pocket on a scam like this but I also don't want to lose it. We'll see. If anyone has ideas please post them up. 

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

I know plenty of dumbasses that passed their first time.

These certs didn’t really move the needle for me when I was a hiring manager.

Yep. In the O&G world I have known a lot more dumbass managers who suck at what they do with this certification than are good at what they do. Give me a manager without the very that has learned his/her management craft over 15+ years of real world experience.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Yes I am. 

What industry? PM or Project Controls Manager? If O&G, I might have a connection for you in your part of town.

[Hate 20247]

PM sent.

[52-80 19377]

5 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Instead you're caught up in the science of project management. 

 

Please do not defile the word science in that manner